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**whembly**

Hulksmash wrote:
I'm excited about the Salvo Banner. I'm seeing way, way to many awesome uses for this thing....

How do you mean?

what does salvo do again? Makes the shooting barrage?

**pretre**

Salvo will turn their bolters into 2 shots at 24 if moving or 4 at 24 if standing still.

So bolter hoses.

**Hulksmash**

Yep, and in conjunction with bikers and maybe crusaders (depending on the wording) it's a ton of relentless TL bolter shots.

**Scrollax**

Any word on Sgt Naaman?

**uberjoras**

Even on plain boltguns, with a single tac squad, you're looking at killing ~6 MEQ, ~3 TEQ, ~22 GEQ. My firewarriors will be seriously jealous if that's remotely true. Of course, we may be able to pin your tacticals (commence eye-rolling).

**Malthor**

Got a look at the Codex today and I must say the DA are getting some funky equipment( for example a mobile torture rack which lets you use enemy teleport beacons and such)

Regarding the Salvo banner, it would be hilarious to give it to a bike squad and have it ride along between 3 Nephilim with the Hurricane bolters^^

**Nevelon**

pretre wrote:Salvo will turn their bolters into 2 shots at 24 if moving or 4 at 24 if standing still.

So bolter hoses.

Hulksmash wrote:Yep, and in conjunction with bikers and maybe crusaders (depending on the wording) it's a ton of relentless TL bolter shots.

uberjoras wrote:Even on plain boltguns, with a single tac squad, you're looking at killing ~6 MEQ, ~3 TEQ, ~22 GEQ. My firewarriors will be seriously jealous if that's remotely true. Of course, we may be able to pin your tacticals (commence eye-rolling).

Do DA get sternguard? They are on the elite page on GW's site. Pumping out that many shots of special ammo could do bad, bad things...

**KaryudoDS**

tedurur wrote:
Not sure what they were thinking with the lsv tho. Not Only is the model bad, 140ps för anything on a ls chassi is not worth it.

They were thinking you would buy one for the apparently awesome Plasma Battery and a Dark Shroud to keep a decent cover save on it. At least that's all I've figured from AV10 heavy support units.

Either way I'm mostly liking the sound of this book. Hopefully DA will get to keep some of this unique when another C:SM suddenly hits but at least at this point I can see plausibly building a lot more army lists than I could with the 4th edition book which really felt like you were doing it wrong if you deviated from the main couple. Units I have but rarely use (from 3rd edition!) like the Scouts and Techmarine look to have shiny new uses. Cheaper Tacticals and RW really get me thinking. More expensive DW doesn't make me as happy but DW seems better so far or optional in a way.

Sort of a pity I haven't seen any DW AA options really but oh well.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nevelon wrote:

Do DA get sternguard? They are on the elite page on GW's site. Pumping out that many shots of special ammo could do bad, bad things...

Supposedly they don't. Which doesn't make much sense why the kit is there. I know if I wanted their weapon options I'd just get the bits pack anyway if actual Sternguard aren't an option.

**Hulksmash**

Unless it doesn't effect units from inside a transport I'm all for a normal command squad with it in a Crusader with flanking bike squadrons, using the LR as a screen against incoming fire. Nasty......but we'll have to see it's actual wording

**pretre**

Wow. I haven't looked at a crusader recently.

3 TL Boltguns per side.

12 shots at 24 per side. Wow.

**uberjoras**

Sternguard's special ammo is presented as a separate firing profile, and as such, couldn't be used in conjunction with the salvo rule. Food for thought.

**Hulksmash**

@Pretre

it's 24 total shots if it works. 6 Bolters at Salvo 2/4 that are twin-linked. So 12 per side, 24 total. But it's supposedly a hella expensive banner.

**reds8n**

No sternguard in the book, guess the models are there as suggestions.

Salvo isn't that great IMO.

Bear in mind if you move you shoot at half your maximum range and you can't assault ( relentless/similar aside) if you fire a salvo weapon either.

**Dok**

Well, if you're talking about tac marines, you generally don't want to assault anyways.

**Hulksmash**

reds8n wrote:
No sternguard in the book, guess the models are there as suggestions.

Salvo isn't that great IMO.

Bear in mind if you move you shoot at half your maximum range and you can't assault ( relentless/similar aside) if you fire a salvo weapon either.

That's why most of us are considering it with relentless models. It's not so great for tacs unless you deepstrike them so that on turn 2 they will be within 6" of the standard, then it's not so bad

But seriously, it's only something to consider with significant relentless stuff in the army.

**pretre**

If only there were famous parts of the army that were almost exclusively Relentless. Hmm...

**Leth**

But pretre only like the deathwing and ravenwing are relentless. You couldnt make an army out of them could you?

**pretre**

Leth wrote:
But pretre only like the deathwing and ravenwing are relentless. You couldnt make an army out of them could you?

via Chizal on Warseer
my bad forgot to mention that deathwing vehicle also gives it PE c;csm
also i think the halberd upgrade is just for the dw knight champion as its str+2 ap2 melee.bane.2 handed

May I ask you for the stats of the Maces of Absolution that the Deathwing Knights carry?
normal mode str+2 ap4 melee,bane,concussive
smite mode str+6 ap2 melee,bane,cuncussive, one use only

bane of the traitor lowers the weapons ap by 1 against chaos marines

not 100% on the halberd upgrade sorry. bookless again. pretty sure its just for the normal deathwing as the dw knight champ has the flail (str+2 ap3 melee.bane.conc)

1. Command squads - are deathwing CS a fixed 5 or 5 starting as several images show more than 5 members.
2. Command squads - can ravenwing take more than members or is it a fixed 3?
3. Command squads - can only PA squads take the sacred standards - is there any prerequisite for this?
4. Chaplains - what are the distinctions between chaplains and Interrogators? Are they both HQ still?
5. Tactical squads - are the rumours that you don't need a sergeant as standard true?
1 + 2 both fixed
3 PA + DW can, unsure on RW
4 no idea didnt look sorry
5 squads come with sargeants and you can upgrade them to vet sargeants for the +1a & ld

Does the banner confer to units outside?
theres around 8 banners now each with different rules, most have some ability that affects all units within a certain range

Did anyone ever verify if the plasma storm gets hot? If so I missed it.
it does in both modes

via Lion El Jason on Warseer
We found out that standard RW bikers have Hit & Run. Is Skilled Riders limited to Black Knights and command squads?
RAS Don't have skilled rider.

Didn't see this asked/answered, but can a 10-man Deathwing Terminator Squad *Combat Squad* in to two 5-man units?
No.

Do we get Ironclads in this codex, or is that vanilla only?
One dread entry. Cheap upgrade to ven dread.

We seem to have conflicting reports here. Wondering if someone can clarify.
1. The special banners have a radius if 6" not 12" like previously mentioned?
2. What options do ravenwing units have in banners? Just the ravenwing one?
3. Can you take LSV or the dark shroud in a unit? And if so, can they be attached to a ravenwing squad?
4. Can you only unlock a ravenwing command squad with Sammael or does a librarian, chaplain, company master on bike unlock those?
5. Do you have to take a command squad if you take belial or Sammael? Or can they attach to the superior knights?
6. If belial deep strikes with DWK does he get the +1 toughness.
1: Different banners are different.
2: Company banner, Revered banner or sacred standard.
3: No, separate entry only.
4: Only Sammael and Azrael.
5: Command squads are optional.
6: Yes, any inner circle model can gain the +1T

I don't know if it was mentionned before, but I was reading another forum and apparently "Deathwing Vehicle" allow you to reroll all failed wound rolls vs Chaos.
Also it is said that Deathwing Knights can exchange their Shield/Mace combo for Halberds of Caliban, was that confirmed before?
Both false. Deathwing Vehicle gives prefered enemy CSM. Only the champion has a halberd, Knights have no weapon options at all.

I'm wondering if they get locator beacons as well now?
Locator Beacon is an upgrade.

1. Command squads - are deathwing CS a fixed 5 or 5 starting as several images show more than 5 members?
2. Command squads - can ravenwing take more than members or is it a fixed 3?
3. Command squads - can only PA squads take the sacred standards - is there any prerequisite for this?
4. Chaplains - what are the distinctions between chaplains and Interrogators? Are they both HQ still?
5. Tactical squads - are the rumours that you don't need a sergeant as standard true?
1: Fixed at 5
2: Fixed at 3
3: Any can have sacred standards (There is an obvious typo I mentioned earlier but other than that...). Only the Power armour Command squad can have a chapter banner (Its supposed to be Bethor afterall who has no terminator armour and isn't RW).
4: Both HQ, interrogators have good stats, regular can't have terminator armour.
5: Sgts are standard, the upgrade to vet sgt costs.

Predators

95 with heavy bolter autocannon.
140 with all lascannons.

Devastators - Still limited to 4 heavy weapons? Are they more reasonably priced at this point, cause right now its like 170 points for 4 ML.
130 for 4 ML

Someone had asked this earlier but I didn't see anything definitive - are standard Ravenwing / Deathwing squads still Fearless?
Ravenwing are not, just Grim Resolve.
Inner Circle grants fearless.

Can Terminators take two Heavy Weapons if they're bought up to a 10man squad?
Yes, full 10 man squads can have 2 heavies.

Anyone know if the Company Veterans (Elites) can still take Storm Shields? Also, can they upgrade either/or or both weapons? ie can they upgrade to be armed with Power Weapon and Storm Shield or Powerfist and Plasma Pistol? (a few quick examples).
yep storm shield are still in at a nice 10pts , they have a lot of options like the chosen from c;csm

via Tallarn via astronomicon
some specifics:
Deathwing:
5-10 man squads
Split fire
Belial allows pin point deep strike and has a teleport homer
Deathwing assault allows you to deep strike your whole frikken army turn one if you so desire!
Banners: The Deathwing options are DW banner (+1A, unique) , Revered Std (Crusader) or a sacred std:
Devastation (Bolters salvo 2/4)
Retribution (Counter Attack)
Fortitude (FnP note its within 12" so not a total waste even with a medic in the squad the banner can give it to other units nearby)
Deathwing Vehicle is same as venerable dread, re-roll pen hits It also gives prefered enemy CSM.

and for more fun (these he could not post):
DW Squad 220 points
Up to 5 more terminators @44ppm
Any model can have TLC free
TH&SS +5pts
CF +5 Points

For every 5 models, one may
Swap SB for HF 10
Swap SB for PC 15
Swap SB for AC 20
Add CML 25

LR of any type as dedicated transport, MUST take DW vehicle.

DW Command 220 Points

One can have
DW Company Banner 45
Revered banner 20
Retribution 45
Devastation 65
Fortitude 85

One can be DW company champ (WS5 and Str +2 AP2 weapon) 5points

One Apothecary 30 points

Any model can have TLC free
TH&SS +5pts
CF +5 Points

one may
Swap SB for HF 10
Swap SB for PC 15
Swap SB for AC 20
Add CML 25

LR of any type as dedicated transport, MUST take DW vehicle.

Knights 235
add up to 5 knights @ 46 ppm
Relic (Fear and Adamantium Will) 10 points

LR of any type as dedicated transport, MUST take DW vehicle.
"You Cannot Hide" is precision strikes.

I am looking at librarians. Prescience-bots are 65 points and 30 for terminator armour which is very cheap and does a few things. With Knights they can have adamantine will so deny the witch on 4+ or 3+ if you have higher mastery. (Can upgrade to 2 for 35 and Ezekiel is 3)

95pt Termi Libbies. Awesome!

**GrimTeef**

That all sounds pretty decent to me, honestly.

Did I read that RavenWing can only be taken in groups of 3? Or is that RW Command Squads?

So there's no Sternguard, it seems. Is there something similar? DA Veterans? I have a customized unpainted Sternguard squad that I have yet to put into a proper army..

**Billagio**

Great, 49pt TH/SS termies.

**Volkov**

Ugh...I hate only having 3 models for a ravenwing command squad. Top priority, not that survivable, no ablative wounds, I'm shelving those models

**Flashman**

This is of course all a vast improvement on the last DA Codex (how could it not be), but I'm still finding it all a bit Deathwing and Ravenwing focused.

I'd like to have seen them do something a bit special for the Guys in Green. I suppose they're getting stubborn, though the return of "intractable" (3rd edition rule - DA can't retreat) would have been cool.

I guess this is no different to BA whose basic guys just get the possibility of Furious Charge.

Hmm... kind of torn. DA were always my favourite space marines, but the last Codex was such a disaster, I disowned them. Also on a self imposed GW embargo though I confess I have bought the Dark Vengeance Tactical Squad off ebay to see how convertible it is. I figured I could do a cheap DA army based off these guys...

**Sasori**

Billagio wrote:
Great, 49pt TH/SS termies.

They've been going up in price, in every codex since the 5th edition SM one, so you can't be that surprised. I think it's pretty fair costing, seeing how much better 2+ saves are now.

Codex is really sounding like it's going to be a pretty well balanced one. Seems to be on the same level as the Chaos Dex so far, but I will need my copy and some time to see if that's true.

**Hulksmash**

@Flashman

They made basic boys in green cheaper. Gave them the option of purchasing a heavy or special starting at 5 models and both at 10 like normal. And gave them access to flakk missiles.

I'm seeing some definite uses for boyz in green that weren't there before.

**Flashman**

Hulksmash wrote:
@Flashman

They made basic boys in green cheaper. Gave them the option of purchasing a heavy or special starting at 5 models and both at 10 like normal. And gave them access to flakk missiles.

I'm seeing some definite uses for boyz in green that weren't there before.

Yes, but as with the last Codex, these changes will probably be rolled out to all Space Marines e.g. Combat Squads made its first appearance in the previous DA Codex. I'd like to see something a bit more unique. Nothing huge or overpowered, just subtle and fluffy.

**Billagio**

Sasori wrote:
Billagio wrote:
Great, 49pt TH/SS termies.

They've been going up in price, in every codex since the 5th edition SM one, so you can't be that surprised. I think it's pretty fair costing, seeing how much better 2+ saves are now.

Codex is really sounding like it's going to be a pretty well balanced one. Seems to be on the same level as the Chaos Dex so far, but I will need my copy and some time to see if that's true.

I suppose, but not any codexes that make as extensive use of termies as DA do. Right now these are the highest costing ones out there, almost as much as a freaking paladin! (granted different unit/wargear but still)

**Cyrax**

Does anyone know anything about the drop pod rules? Do they include drop pod assault now?

**Sasori**

Billagio wrote:
Sasori wrote:
Billagio wrote:
Great, 49pt TH/SS termies.

They've been going up in price, in every codex since the 5th edition SM one, so you can't be that surprised. I think it's pretty fair costing, seeing how much better 2+ saves are now.

Codex is really sounding like it's going to be a pretty well balanced one. Seems to be on the same level as the Chaos Dex so far, but I will need my copy and some time to see if that's true.

I suppose, but not any codexes that make as extensive use of termies as DA do. Right now these are the highest costing ones out there, almost as much as a freaking paladin! (granted different unit/wargear but still)

Yes, but you also get several special rules that most Terminators don't get, so of course they are going to be a tad more expensive.

**Scipio Africanus**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

I’ll admit I haven’t looked too deeply into this, so please correct these statements if they are false:

1. The Grey Knights have a First Company of nothing but Terminators, led by Draigo.
2. The Grey Knights have a specialist company of nothing but Purifiers, led by Crowe.
3. There are no Terminators or Purifiers in any other GK Company.

There are terminators in every gk company. I believe they're meant to have enough suits to lead all of them.

The paladins and purifiers are separate orders to the normal run of the mill grey knights. There are no purifiers in any other order, though they fight alongside their brethren like first company.

Paladins =\= gk terminators.

Oh, and draigo's a daemon.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

I'd really like more info on the tactical squads, seeings as how it will reflect the points/options of the vanilla marine codex...