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btr75 wrote:In my thus far limited experience in 40k, I have found this to be the case. I would think Regular Nobz with their 2 wounds would also do well against Termis, but have not been that situation yet.

No not really. Every terminator (Minus the stock Sgt.) will have a power fist and they will cause instand death on every wound. So youre talking 1 failed wound, 1 completely dead nob. Where as boyz, you take 5 wounds, you lose 5 boyz, big deal. Not to mention boyz actually get to attack first for once

Sinji wrote:I was meaning in the Assault. If 20x Boys Assault 5x Termies the boys will via atrition even if the termies Overwatch there going to take a ton of hits from shooting first then cop a ton more in combat.

The only thing I know of that can easily chew up a mob of 20 boyz and come out unscathed is a Blood Angels Death Company Dread with Blood Talons. They are evil in the most pure form

You wont take a ton of hits from overwatch. They get 20 shots rolling 6s to hit. Sooo 3 hits? And half those will fail to wound.

My point is not boys overwatching my point is how did a 5 man Termie squad kill a 20 boy squad from over watch?

I had a squad of 5 hammer/shield termies charge my 20 shooty boyz with 2 bigshootas and i took out 2 of them and put 2 wounds on the captain. 130pts just killed/damaged over 300pts on HIS turn not mine.

Sadly my luck didnt keep going as the remaining 3 and the 1 wound captain cleaned up my other 2 groups

So there was a Captian in there that makes things different. When I see 5 man Termie squad I think of the basic entry from the list. Don't feel too bad though because that Captian and the Termies would have been over 350pts and there designed to be a wrecking crew. The best way to take out a SM IC is to send in your Warboss and Challenge him. With your high toughness you won't get Instakilled by Power Fist and most other weapons will have a hard time wounding T5 or 6 if on a bike. The only thing to really worry about are the Libbys with Force Weapons but they will also have trouble wounding in the first place and make sure if they do put a wound on you they don't have any warp charge left to activate the Force Weapon

Sinji wrote:
My point is not boys overwatching my point is how did a 5 man Termie squad kill a 20 boy squad from over watch?

Ahh I misunderstood your point then. Well I guess both points meet in the same point, overwatch would in no WAY kill off a 20mob, not even damage it really

Sinji wrote:

 DieselJester wrote:
It's a shame that the days of the Green Tide are probably over. With the old rules you could easily footslog it across the board and then have the horde chew up anything in its path with CC. With overwatch, I've watched in horror as a squad of 5 termies laid waste to a 20+ strong mob of boyz.

So now for us Ork players it looks like we have to go more shooty in order to just keep up.

How did 5 termies lay waist to 20 boys they have only 10 shots with storm bolters 11 with a Heavy Flamer or 12 with an AC. Then the Survivors would either go first or at the same time with the exceptions of the Sgt. who would get his 2 power attacks first.

Sorry, I should've clarified the scenario better. He got first shot at me on his turn that whittled the mob down and then got me again on overwatch when I turned around and assaulted him. He mowed down a lot more on overwatch which prompted a leadership test and my boyz failed miserably and were forced to run. This was also when 6th ed was just released so we were figuring out the new rules at the same time so I think that I ultimately got screwed during that game.

Fact still remains that overwatch really sucks though.

Overwatch certainly does not suck. It BARELY does anything to us, as our numbers are so high. AND! when we fire overwatch, its better for 2 reasons.
1. Numbers, again.
2. Our hits are only halved, where as everyone else REALLY takes it on the ass

Except that it prevents us from trying any charge further than 7 inches because if we take even 1 wound from overwatch, now we need 8-9 inches to make that charge or worse since you overwatch before charging...which is fething stupid...and wounds still taken from the front.

ive been denied several charges cuz of 1 overwatch wound. so damn gay.

Ok, so maybe overwatch sucks for just me. LOL. I'm going to try a "come at me, bro" approach to next week's game by fielding lots and lots of shootas just to see how it goes.

Thats how ive been doing well lately. Ive been running 20-30 lootas (1500pt-1750pt games) with 4x squads of 20 shootas walking around them, 2 groups of kannons, and a MANz missile lurking around. So far my losses with that was when i deployed like an idiot, not because of my tactic.

My necron friend fielded 3 flying transports with warriors in 2 the last had deathmarks. I shot them down first turn i got a chance before he even got close to where he wanted to drop them lol (he hates the snapshot effect if he doesnt hovermode first)

At 2000 points I've been running double FOC with 3 BikerBosses, Wazz, and 10 NobBikers with Cyborks, Banner, and Painboy all in one Mob. It's my TWC with 4 TW HQ Wannabe list.

I no longer ever put a PK on my NB's since the Boss gets a heck of a lot more mileage out of those 25 pts: 2 more attacks (with Attack Squig) and always Str. 10 at a higher WS!

Against T4 models, 5 attacks at Str 5 with SG wounds exactly the same as 4 attacks at Str. 7 with BC. Only when they are Str 4 and 6 respectively does the extra 5 points barely help so unless you're instakilling T3 that the Boss' PK didn't take care of, BC are not worth it.

And I haven't take Reg Nobz in a BW in 6th because of the gimp to vehicles and the huge bonus to bike toughness. But if I did, I'd still not add both Eavy Armor and Cybork. Cyborks only. Please count the number of 4's you roll then subtract the number of 5 and 6 inv saves from AP4 better weapons and if you don't always get a negative number, I'll buy you a cookie.

Heavy armor is pointless. I dont even put it on my big meks. Anything i really want to spend the points on for that armor is getting hit by thing that pen it anyway. All it does is provide some defense to random infantry, and half the races have random infantry with a good amount of big guns anyway thrown in the mix.

Nob bikers dakka quite well too. Its a shorter range TL big shoota, which can pack a punch. Sadly Wazzies Dakkakannon isnt twinlinked but i think it would be a bit overpowered if it was rofl.

Try taking a squad of regular bikers and a squad of Trukk boys both squads have a Nobs with PK and BP. When you charge a squad charge with both units. The Biker nob can take a little more punishment in Combat than the regular Nob so always issue and accept challenges with him. The other Nob and boys can smash the unit. I use to run my orks like this in 5th and I feel it would work better like this in 6th with the addition of challenges.

Once the bike squads have served there purpose they can be used to contest objectives. This tactic works similar to the dual trukk assault only it has some better fire power and a tougher challenge monkey.

Hmm...i might have to try that....would you fully kit out those bike groups or run them 5-6 regulars + a nob? My issue with normal bikers is they still thin out fairly quick, having leadership issues fast (1 wound ftl)

5-6 regs and Nob does the trick. Obviously you will still need to prioitise. Eg. Your better off thowing 2x trukk squads at a squad of Incubi or MANZ because there save is crap anyways where as if your against a tact squad with a fist sgt throw a squad of trukkers and a bike squad then challenge with the bike nob as the fist won't insta kill him. If you come up against a squad which has a lot of low strength guys and 1-0 power weapons like a firewarrior unit or some IG Vets throw 2x biker squads at them as they will have a lot of trouble causing wounds as is vs T5 and then you get a 4+ save.

If you want a solid unit that can fight with out back up use a squad of 5 MANZ with no characters (keep them away from squads with lots of AP2 attacks or strength 8-9-10) & they will carve them a new one. Don't worry about Ld issues because if you choose the target they should be the ones taking leadership tests not you. If you plan your assaults a turn or two in advance you should be assaulting with most of your units at the same time funny enough this is the best time to call a Waaagh!!!. On the turn this happens your opponent will lose a lot of models and it should cripple him enough to turn the tide in your favor.