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 Ravenous D wrote:

almostreal wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Tresdedos wrote:
. I can drop by, have a coffee, shop, paint and socialize.

For now....

If the first thing Tres says that he does when he goes to this GW is "shop", then I assume that store will be ok.

I think the most telling part of this whole thing is, if you look at the bunker's facebook page...people are more interested in getting the Bunker's terrain given to them, or auctioned off then really caring about the employees or even the community.

I am all for having a place to game, but GW doesn't "owe" us this. It's obvious that the patrons of the Bunker weren't buying enough to keep the place open...now it closes. That's life. If you like your local GW, for god's sake, buy stuff there to support it. Otherwise when it closes, it's not GW's or Thom Kirby's fault..it's yours.

So you think killing off gaming tables in stores will make it all better?

I do think that actually. If GW closing all of it's unprofitable stores means that it can operate at a sufficient margin to maybe not raise prices again this year it'd be great.

The only thing I really have to say is that this sucks and if you like your local GW and want them to stay in business, don't order something online and save $30, buy it from their store. If you don't support the store (in this case the bunker) it's nobody's fault but yours if they can't pay rent and their employees and have to close shop.

almostreal wrote:
If GW closing all of it's unprofitable stores means that it can operate at a sufficient margin to maybe not raise prices again this year it'd be great.

Got some bad news for you. Even if they did operate at a sufficient margin, they'd still raise prices. Their price structure is not representative of their production costs.

almostreal wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

almostreal wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Tresdedos wrote:
. I can drop by, have a coffee, shop, paint and socialize.

For now....

If the first thing Tres says that he does when he goes to this GW is "shop", then I assume that store will be ok.

I think the most telling part of this whole thing is, if you look at the bunker's facebook page...people are more interested in getting the Bunker's terrain given to them, or auctioned off then really caring about the employees or even the community.

I am all for having a place to game, but GW doesn't "owe" us this. It's obvious that the patrons of the Bunker weren't buying enough to keep the place open...now it closes. That's life. If you like your local GW, for god's sake, buy stuff there to support it. Otherwise when it closes, it's not GW's or Thom Kirby's fault..it's yours.

So you think killing off gaming tables in stores will make it all better?

I do think that actually. If GW closing all of it's unprofitable stores means that it can operate at a sufficient margin to maybe not raise prices again this year it'd be great.

Yea. Right.

almostreal wrote:
The only thing I really have to say is that this sucks and if you like your local GW and want them to stay in business, don't order something online and save $30, buy it from their store. If you don't support the store (in this case the bunker) it's nobody's fault but yours if they can't pay rent and their employees and have to close shop.

Here's the thing though, they are killing interest in their own product when they kill off the tables in their stores.
I am NOT going to support my local store unless I can actually game there. There is a bunker an hour away from me and when I used to go there I paid full price. Then they changed managers there and opened a new store only 20 minutes away with a single 8x4 broken into two 4x4s or a 6x4 and a 2x4. It sucks. There is no room to play and even if you find an opponent you are limited in the size of your games. I tried going there a few times but I didn't enjoy it so I stopped going and started buying off the internet.

Gaming tables do more fore a FLGS than it does for a GW stores.

FLGS gaming tables bring in revenue from Friday night magic

FLGS gaming tables bring in revenue from MTG draft nights, and it's usually on a weekday when things are slow.

FLGS gaming tables bring in revenue from small mini tournaments of World of Warcraft or Yugio.

FLGS gaming tables bring in revenue from 40k tournaments.

FLGS sell a larger line of product and thus have more stock that they move in comparison to a GW store.

FLGS continue suck money out of players that start to get bored of/burn out on GW games because when they hit that stage other games like warmahordes and mallifux catch their eye.

Between collectible card games, tournaments, non GW product, and escalation leagues a FLGS can squeeze far more profit out if it's gaming tables than a GW battle bunker can. As much as I love the LA battle bunker I have to agree with GW that the business model of a large GW battle bunker is far less competitive than that of a large FLGS such as Game Empire or Thou Shalt Game. The books were probably in the red for a long period of time. Once it turns into a hobby center most of the customers will leave to play at a FLGS, most of the store's income will go away, but most of the store's overhead will also go away which should put the hobby center into the black. As long as it can run just a tiny bit in the black GW will be fine because all the lost customers who are now going to FLGS are still purchasing GW products.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Haven't you all heard GW's new motto "give me your money and get the hell out".

It's called Total Customer feth 9000. It's a business model

To those people pointing out that Bunkers probably aren't making a profit: Sometimes simply having a public storefront will bring in revenues. The shops in Times Square, NYC such as Levi's, Forever 21, the Disney store, etc... they lose money every single quarter. But, it's advertising for their company because they're in a public, frequented place. It would do Gamesworkshop a service to set up their big Bunker stores closer to downtown type areas, and accept a loss in order to advertise and generate interest.

A lot of shopping is done online nowdays, and the same kid begging his parents for a Space Marine starter set because he visited a GW Bunker, could just as easily get on the computer and show his parents the GW website so they can buy him something. One of the problems with wargaming is that it's not a huge community, and for the most part you're either in, or out. And if you're in, you tell your friends about the game, and some of your friends are probably into the game too. But for those people 'out' of the game, they've probably never heard of wargaming other than WWII type wargames from the 80's and 90s.

Having a public storefront that attracts traffic does several things for a company. It costs some money, it may operate at a loss, but it will also generate traffic within the store, and word-of-mouth advertising from those who visit. A store with 10 tables and some people playing generates a lot more interest than a store with 2 tables and feels more like a general hobby shop.

Here's my own personal experience: About 10 years ago I was in Pittsburgh and visited a gaming/comic store and saw WH40K stuff for the first time. I was intrigued and asked the staff about the game. They acted disinterested, and one of the customers present was a 40K player who very firmly told me that I wouldn't be allowed to play in the store without a 'fully painted, tabletop level army, plus a codex'. I didn't know what any of it meant, and I left the store feeling like 40K was probably some sort of elitist game that operates out of small, hole-in-the-wall comic book stores. I wasn't going to drive 50 miles to Pittsburgh to play, that was for sure!

Years later (this past summer), I found a comic/gaming store in Morgantown, WV where I was welcomed very warmly and people took the time to show me the game and talk to me. I've -never- had a shortage of people to ask advice of at this store, and the staff are always very kind. Had I experienced this sort of thing in Pittsburgh, I would have gladly driven the 50 miles to play once or twice per month and their store would have generated revenue from me. And, probably from my friends too because I'd have told them about it.

In the end, it's important to have a 'presence' out there, welcoming in new players, having your PRODUCT proudly on display and available for people to try out. The game is much more impressive when you see armies arranged on tables and players talking/joking and clearly having fun while they play.

Two examples from UK, showing this is a global GW strategy:

Bigman over at Warseer wrote:My local uk store has now told people that beginner weekends are only available to people who buy the rules. While commercially viable in that more rule books and DV /IoB will be sold, that decision actually drives away casual walk ins from trying.
(...)
Another store in London, which has a thriving veterans scene and a little battle bunker with gaming tables, has just changed the set up for gaming night and has essentially kicked out all the established hobbyists (which used to frequent the shop alot) in favour of running "beginners evenings", with the clear indication that "we are a hobby centre, not a gaming club"

I mean seriously...that store has just pissed of a dozen gamers who spend plenty of money, all for new gamers. And there isn't even a problem in the managers eyes.

Does GW follow an ambitious business plan, that they have to lose a minimum of 10% of their customers per year?

They need to focus on providing good support to FLGS and stop trying to be direct salesmen in the US imho.

 Hulksmash wrote:
@RiTides

Take a breath buddy. I was referring to Pretre's comment about renting the same spot and opening a FLGS. As I'd heard that's what the previous Baltimore Bunker manager did and the store is doing well. Could be wrong, I obviously don't live in the area

Dropzone Games is doing quite well, from appearances. It even seems to have drawn a lot of the regulars away from the bunker's new location down in Bowie, and away from another local store about ten minutes from it. Not being pressured to buy glue with every model purchase, not getting sold expensive models that are gak on the tabletop, and being able to play on flat boards with functional terrain rather than Realm of Battle boards all really helped it muscle the Bowie Bunker out, too.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Two examples from UK, showing this is a global GW strategy:

Bigman over at Warseer wrote:My local uk store has now told people that beginner weekends are only available to people who buy the rules. While commercially viable in that more rule books and DV /IoB will be sold, that decision actually drives away casual walk ins from trying.
(...)
Another store in London, which has a thriving veterans scene and a little battle bunker with gaming tables, has just changed the set up for gaming night and has essentially kicked out all the established hobbyists (which used to frequent the shop alot) in favour of running "beginners evenings", with the clear indication that "we are a hobby centre, not a gaming club"

I mean seriously...that store has just pissed of a dozen gamers who spend plenty of money, all for new gamers. And there isn't even a problem in the managers eyes.

Does GW follow an ambitious business plan, that they have to lose a minimum of 10% of their customers per year?

To your quoted quote, it is kinda understandable as veterans who sit at the GW not buying anything really does nothing for the company. it is basically loitering and brings in no revenue. GW isn't a day care center. Not to say the rest of there business model is any good.

i wonder how a business based solely as a place to play say with a monthly fee or so would do.

You make it sound like vending machines for blisters in a mall would be the ideal way to spread the wargaming hobby. Indeed veterans gaming in a store are what I consider ideal to bring new people into the hobby and sustain the local wargaming scene. It is not the aggressive salesman showing boxes, that convinces new players that tabletop games are fun. It's seeing people having fun. That's what GW stores should do: Recruiting new customers, serving the local community and helping people start the hobby.

Oh absolutely i don't deny that's what GW should do but as GW is now im stating i understand why a manager that has to sit there and tend to 10-20 people that don't want to buy anything would want them out.

quite frankly i believe gw should just pull out of the US and heavily support more FLGs with tourney packages and painting events to get people in the door. with maybe one or 2 big bunker style flagship stores as other suggested. but it looks like the current marketing geniuses know something that we don't. not to say im a marking genius i just though it was common sense.

 Ravenous D wrote:
I know the bunkers dont make money, they never were meant too, it was the recruiter stores that made the cash, but with the switch to the one man stores and the rumblings they are getting rid of tables all together it raises some serious questions about GWs knowledge and ability to run a gaming store. If you make a destination store (which all the one man stores are) then you have to keep your regulars and make them want to spend money.

Most people will say that they would never go to a GW if it wasnt for the tables or the gaming because the staff are just brutal and impossible to deal with. The point is GW is doing nothing to improve its image with people that want to give them money. Understand that I love this game and Ive been doing it for 20 years, so when I watch a gaming community shrink steadily with all those leaving saying "GW screwed me" and the like, then it means you have to look at GWs ability to maintain a positive community. Happy/blissfully ignorant gamers spend money, the problem is GW isnt doing anything on the happy side of that, it looks more like they are just trying to swindle you in the night.

A local store here just had the manager move on to bigger and better things and the guy they brought in was a casual gamer, he was pretty laid back and quickly understood that there is little point being a chud to his customers. People were happy, so the store started making a lot more money, it gained 14% growth in 3 months. Having said that, the store was still in the red (zero foot traffic area) so GW upper management hounded the manager with constant visits and ran him through days of their training regimes to the point where he quit because it wasnt worth the crap. GW then put one of those zealous sales-drones in whose first action was to kick out 5 of the 15 regulars, and since then the place has been a ghost town.

Point is you can make a large profit off a gaming community, but making them struggle to use your product and alienating them isnt the way to go about it.

Rav... I read GW's investor relations website today. It does seems that their goals, practices and mission statement are out of whack. Their 1/4erly report however shows nice healthy numbers. They're doing something right. They'll keep raising prices and hobbyists who love WH40K and their other products will continue to pony up the cash. I'll probably examine my spending habits and start buying PO NIB kits on ebay. Cheers, Tresdedos

 Iron Dragon wrote:
Here's my own personal experience: About 10 years ago I was in Pittsburgh and visited a gaming/comic store and saw WH40K stuff for the first time. I was intrigued and asked the staff about the game. They acted disinterested, and one of the customers present was a 40K player who very firmly told me that I wouldn't be allowed to play in the store without a 'fully painted, tabletop level army, plus a codex'. I didn't know what any of it meant, and I left the store feeling like 40K was probably some sort of elitist game that operates out of small, hole-in-the-wall comic book stores. I wasn't going to drive 50 miles to Pittsburgh to play, that was for sure!

Years later (this past summer), I found a comic/gaming store in Morgantown, WV where I was welcomed very warmly and people took the time to show me the game and talk to me. I've -never- had a shortage of people to ask advice of at this store, and the staff are always very kind. Had I experienced this sort of thing in Pittsburgh, I would have gladly driven the 50 miles to play once or twice per month and their store would have generated revenue from me. And, probably from my friends too because I'd have told them about it.

Pittsburgh? What store was that?

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
It is inline with what they have been doing and their stated goals in their financial reports. Larger areas of retail space which aren't used to actually sell product are very expensive - even in rough neighborhoods or strip mall locations. Seattle has rather more expensive rent than a lot of other locations which have already been transitioned to smaller, cheaper locations - so there really isn't any reason to think that they would not be as well.

That's very disheartening to hear. I just got started back in the hobby after learning that this place, (where I had first learned to play back in high school) was still around, and I was so looking forward to spending a lot of time there in the future once I finished everything.

Now I'm just... really....sad....

Hey my So-Cal pals I hear you need a place to game cause the GW bunker has abandoned you....well check out mercenary market located nearby. They have about 10 ....yes 10 gaming tables, over 80 pieces of modular terrain (a kind guy named Colin donated a lot of it), and are open everyday during the week and till midnight friday and saturday. not a pressure sales environment.

Mercenary Market
2263 Fairview Rd. Ste P
Costa Mesa, CA 92627

Anyways check it out with your buds.

sucks about the bunker but incompetent staff/managers = dead sales = down sized

@ Tresdedos

Yeah but sales volume is down, cranking prices on a dying product is like setting fire to a gas truck crashing into a dynamite factory.

 btr75 wrote:
They need to focus on providing good support to FLGS and stop trying to be direct salesmen in the US imho.

Funny you mention that, few years ago GW actually wanted to start a program for retailers that if they have demo tables and paint stations and follow GWs policies that they get a greater discount on their orders, it was an effort to combat internet discounters. They wanted to drop the retailer discount to 35% (currently its 45%) and increase it for each of GWs rules up to 45%, the plan failed horribly after they realized how tremendously illegal it was. They managed to pull off that embargo with austrailia some how though...

They need to find a way to lower overhead prices and keep costs down.

GW is sinking all their money into brick and mortar stores and raising prices in return.

THANKS GW, LESS FOR MORE!

 Ravenous D wrote:
@ Tresdedos Yeah but sales volume is down, cranking prices on a dying product is like setting fire to a gas truck crashing into a dynamite factory.

 btr75 wrote:
They need to focus on providing good support to FLGS and stop trying to be direct salesmen in the US imho.

Funny you mention that, few years ago GW actually wanted to start a program for retailers that if they have demo tables and paint stations and follow GWs policies that they get a greater discount on their orders, it was an effort to combat internet discounters. They wanted to drop the retailer discount to 35% (currently its 45%) and increase it for each of GWs rules up to 45%, the plan failed horribly after they realized how tremendously illegal it was. They managed to pull off that embargo with austrailia some how though...

GW gave the FLGS 'The Last Grenadier' a hard time recently. August 2012 TLG had a 20% off sale on any kits in the store (not just GW). My sons and I went to that sale and picked up an Ork Battlewagon, Ork Boyz and some Gretchin. I went in recently with my sons and bought a Raider kit. I asked when they were going to another sale that included GW products. The manager told me that GW raised hell with him over selling their products at sale prices. GW considers the practice of having sales as insulting and will not supply independents that place GW on sale or sell them at a discount. Sounds vaguely fishy and illegal to me. My take is, once I buy your product to sell in my shop, I'll price it any way I damn well please that makes me a profit and gets product off the shelves. They tried that with me I'd tell them to hang their merchandise in their backside and see how well it sells there. North America accounted for 17.9m£ in sales for the second 1/2 of 2012. I wonder what an organised 6 month boycott of GW's 80+ US stores would do to their business plan...

Considering how many places, even in SoCal, sell GW at a discount, it's possible the FLGS owner was blowing a little smoke somewhere in order to cover his ...smoke hole.

I'm going to write to Microsoft and demand that they have stores in prime real estate city centres that consist entirely of XBoxes and widescreen TVs. The regulars will bully away newcomers, and will buy feth all new games, let alone consoles.

Oh and they'll need heating, lighting, electricity, health and safety regulations etc. Failure to produce such money-draining services will be interprited as a huge "eff you" to the fans.

</sarcasm>

I don't know why GW would have such stores anyway. One table for newcomers is better than 5 tables for regulars. FLGS (apparently these exist, though there don't seem to be any near me...I do live down the road from Warhammer World, though you can't really battle strangers there) are more suited for this "business model".

 BryllCream wrote:
I'm going to write to Microsoft and demand that they have stores in prime real estate city centres that consist entirely of XBoxes and widescreen TVs. The regulars will bully away newcomers, and will buy feth all new games, let alone consoles.

Oh and they'll need heating, lighting, electricity, health and safety regulations etc. Failure to produce such money-draining services will be interprited as a huge "eff you" to the fans.

</sarcasm>

I don't know why GW would have such stores anyway. One table for newcomers is better than 5 tables for regulars. FLGS (apparently these exist, though there don't seem to be any near me...I do live down the road from Warhammer World, though you can't really battle strangers there) are more suited for this "business model".

Tables for veterans to play are AS important (not more, just as) as tables for new people. As much as GW try to say they are selling 'models' and 'toys' to kids they are selling a GAME. To successfully sell a game you need people to PLAY IT. Many people can't simply set up a table in their kitchen/living room/garage and, more importantly people aren't going to be able to play against anyone but their friends even if they do. Having a place for people to play in store means people who aren't simply passing by have a reason to come in, and once they are in it is much easier to sell them things. As well people need opponents to play against or they will immediately loose interest in the game. And besides, the microsoft analogy is flawed in that they are not providing the games - or in this case models - we are bringing those ourselves, what they are providing is a space for people to use the gaames (models) they have bought because tabletop wargaming is not something you can do along in your own home.
I think what you always seem to miss in these arguments is that nobody here is saying they HAVE to provide all this stuff because we are entitled to it, just that if they had any sense they would know that they SHOULD do so to keep people people interested in their product.

(Sorry if anything there didn't make sense/was rambling, it's 1am here)

The best thing about this is that I no longer need to rely on suffering thru the trolls who go to the LA Battle Bunker to get a game in. I've now got that "push out of the nest" to just go out and build my own table with my buddies. So i say thank you GW, I no longer have to be dissapointed about being surrounded by the greasy, loud & sickly group of humanity that infested that place, you know the "know it alls" the "NO! NO! NO! *throw tantrums*". I say let the BO and Crop Dusted Farts settle... RIP LA Bunker you'll be missed... but not your regulars... they need a bath.

 jonolikespie wrote:

Tables for veterans to play are AS important (not more, just as) as tables for new people. As much as GW try to say they are selling 'models' and 'toys' to kids they are selling a GAME. To successfully sell a game you need people to PLAY IT. Many people can't simply set up a table in their kitchen/living room/garage and, more importantly people aren't going to be able to play against anyone but their friends even if they do. Having a place for people to play in store means people who aren't simply passing by have a reason to come in, and once they are in it is much easier to sell them things. As well people need opponents to play against or they will immediately loose interest in the game. And besides, the microsoft analogy is flawed in that they are not providing the games - or in this case models - we are bringing those ourselves, what they are providing is a space for people to use the gaames (models) they have bought because tabletop wargaming is not something you can do along in your own home.
I think what you always seem to miss in these arguments is that nobody here is saying they HAVE to provide all this stuff because we are entitled to it, just that if they had any sense they would know that they SHOULD do so to keep people people interested in their product.

(Sorry if anything there didn't make sense/was rambling, it's 1am here)

Problem is, having a large gaming space in prime real estate is expensive. Unless you want to charge people for it, which would be rather silly, it does look as though it was losing money.

Natfka wrote:Battle Bunkers: A Sad Farewell

While it is indeed a smarter thing to do from a business perspective, it is sad to see battle bunkers go away. Today I was told that its not just the LA and Chicago Battle Bunkers going away, its all Battle Bunkers in general. Here is the latest. Please remember that this is still a rumor and nothing formal has been announced.

via the Faeit 212 inbox (source can't be named) wrote:ALL battle bunkers will be phased out over time. The issue isn't the sinking ship of a company, but how much it costs, against how much it earns. Bad business ethic. You wouldn't pay $1000 to earn a $100, it's just stupid. So they are phasing them all out in order to have stores that suit the numbers of customers. This probably means that although the bunkers will close, they'll open stores closer to the larger concentrations of customers. So if you've been asked for an area code recently....or something similar, watch out for a new store opening soon!!

GW finally learned that aquisition of new customers costs money ... that is better spend on dividends

 BryllCream wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

Tables for veterans to play are AS important (not more, just as) as tables for new people. As much as GW try to say they are selling 'models' and 'toys' to kids they are selling a GAME. To successfully sell a game you need people to PLAY IT. Many people can't simply set up a table in their kitchen/living room/garage and, more importantly people aren't going to be able to play against anyone but their friends even if they do. Having a place for people to play in store means people who aren't simply passing by have a reason to come in, and once they are in it is much easier to sell them things. As well people need opponents to play against or they will immediately loose interest in the game. And besides, the microsoft analogy is flawed in that they are not providing the games - or in this case models - we are bringing those ourselves, what they are providing is a space for people to use the gaames (models) they have bought because tabletop wargaming is not something you can do along in your own home.
I think what you always seem to miss in these arguments is that nobody here is saying they HAVE to provide all this stuff because we are entitled to it, just that if they had any sense they would know that they SHOULD do so to keep people people interested in their product.

(Sorry if anything there didn't make sense/was rambling, it's 1am here)

Problem is, having a large gaming space in prime real estate is expensive. Unless you want to charge people for it, which would be rather silly, it does look as though it was losing money.

Yes but no one says they have to have prime real estate, stick a one man store somewhere you'll get lots of foot traffic them put the battle bunker somewhere out of the way(cheap) so you can then send the people there once they have become interested at the one man store to keep them interested.

The problem with that jono, is the sheer distance that the LA/Orange County area covers. It's common to have a 30-45 minute commute to a "close" destination, which is my average drive time to the current bunker location. Longer drives arent uncommon, but certainly not welcomed. It's too big an area for that store model to be very viable for most people here.

 Kroothawk wrote:

Natfka wrote:Battle Bunkers: A Sad Farewell

While it is indeed a smarter thing to do from a business perspective, it is sad to see battle bunkers go away. Today I was told that its not just the LA and Chicago Battle Bunkers going away, its all Battle Bunkers in general. Here is the latest. Please remember that this is still a rumor and nothing formal has been announced.

via the Faeit 212 inbox (source can't be named) wrote:ALL battle bunkers will be phased out over time. The issue isn't the sinking ship of a company, but how much it costs, against how much it earns. Bad business ethic. You wouldn't pay $1000 to earn a $100, it's just stupid. So they are phasing them all out in order to have stores that suit the numbers of customers. This probably means that although the bunkers will close, they'll open stores closer to the larger concentrations of customers. So if you've been asked for an area code recently....or something similar, watch out for a new store opening soon!!

GW finally learned that aquisition of new customers costs money ... that is better spend on dividends

Nah GW just spends all of its money on flying all of its managers to memphis and put them in a hotel for a few days every 3 months. I know for a fact they dont stay in dumpy hotels, so unless there is a massive discount you're looking at $500+ a person depending on where they are coming from. If there is 50 people thats $100,000/year. Even if its $50,000, thats money all the people that play this game are paying for whether you go to their stores or not, and how with no gaming tables on the horizon, why in the blue hell am I paying for a bunch of guys to sit around painting models and playing word games to best sell stuff to people?

 Ravenous D wrote:

Nah GW just spends all of its money on flying all of its managers to memphis and put them in a hotel for a few days every 3 months. I know for a fact they dont stay in dumpy hotels, so unless there is a massive discount you're looking at $500+ a person depending on where they are coming from. If there is 50 people thats $100,000/year. Even if its $50,000, thats money all the people that play this game are paying for whether you go to their stores or not, and how with no gaming tables on the horizon, why in the blue hell am I paying for a bunch of guys to sit around painting models and playing word games to best sell stuff to people?

Don't forget a generous health care package also. We don't care about the well being of other people, so why should they. How dare they get health care when the rest of people working in the world of retail don't.

 BryllCream wrote:
I'm going to write to Microsoft and demand that they have stores in prime real estate city centres that consist entirely of XBoxes and widescreen TVs. The regulars will bully away newcomers, and will buy feth all new games, let alone consoles..

This attitude of self-loathing among self-professed hobbyists of GW games is quite, quite strange. Why do you have such low expectations of your peers?