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 -Loki- wrote:

 Mantle wrote:
Maybe GW are planning on putting cards with the unit entry in to the boxes of the models themselves, like the interrogator chaplain in the DV box, means you have to buy the model to know if its any good on release

Well, there is that other game that has made this method incredibly successful. What was it? I can't quite place the name. W... Wa...

feth it.

Other games? What are you talking about? The only games in The Hobby are Lord of the Rings, Warhammer, and Warhammer 40k. Everyone knows that

"The Hobby" ...is there a thread to bash that term?!

I don't know if there's one active now, but there have been about fourteen squintillion threads about it in the past, with some people ludicrously defending the concept as if it there really is a "GW Hobby" that is separate and distinct from the wargaming hobby..... but that's off topic for this thread, isn't it?

On topic: I'm still fairly certain that GW doesn't really know what it's doing, in general, despite what others may claim.

its clear GW doesn't know what its doing

and I am sure GW thinks its the only wargaming hobby as it had the gonads to display on their front page, for awhile, that they make the best miniatures in the world

 Vaktathi wrote:

It's appears to be an issue of GW simply recording the tone of the feedback rather than the actual informational content of the feedback.

Sounds a lot like my ex-wife.

 Breotan wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:
As I feared, the strict no-content-policy of the current WD team continues. If this is true (and I fear it is), this will also put the flyer update and future new model before Codex rumours to rest. Is there any reason to read a WD two weeks after release anymore?

I think the real question is...is there a reason to read WD at all anymore?

I mean, pictures can be seen anywhere, and it's not like the rest of the content is exactly worth paying for.

You people actually bought that line about bringing actual hobby "content" to their monthly catalogue? Ahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!

I feel really bad for the people who took GW at their word that the new WD would be better and have rules content, and bought subscriptions.

Welcome to the Games Workshop Hobby indeed.

 pretre wrote:
Hmm. On one hand, Darnok has an okay record and got the new WD changes right the first time. On the other hand, he was all in on the 'Pancake' edition.

I heard pancake was real, it was a "wishlist" edition before the scaled back the changes, in order to make them less drastic

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Best part of this thread......." 7.) If you gather 250 consecutive issues of White Dwarf, and burn them atop a pyre of Citradel spray guns, legend has it Gwar will appear and answer a single rules-related question."

We are insanely against piracy here at Dakka as a matter of policy. I find it extremely sad and ironic that GW itself encourages it by leaving a lot of customers with no other option if they miss certain issues or don't have an iPad. Come on.

Just release bloody pdf's and support the consumer for the love of pete... only people who are buying or interested in buying care, why put obstacles to purchasing your own stuff in place? This really irked me about the SOB and Flyer rules. It was fantastic that they did this in WD, I think most would say it was a step in the right direction.

The proper follow up would have been to put a pdf out 3 - 4 months later.

The absolute worst follow up is to discontinue the positively received action, and then compound it with additional new negative actions in just removing all real content out of the magazine.

We went from promises of content and a step away from being just a catalogue for 10 bucks to even more of a catalogue than ever before if this is actually true.

The worst part of all this is that many people will read comments like this and call internet whining or entitlement or 'What, GW is not allowed to make money?' comments... never realizing that most of us are pissed because we wanted them to succeed and by their own definition when they relaunched, they appear to have failed. A lot of people say Dakka is full of haters... although there are plenty of those running around, I usually find Dakka is full of a lot of people who are pissed because they care about GW and how they don't live up to their legacy or potential at times in certain ways. No one is going to say the models aren't better and better every year I think. But also, no one is going to say WD is better than it was 15 years ago either.

I just love it how they've added 30 or so pages to the new WD, but somehow managed to make 10 new product descriptions last for 50 pages of GW people licking them with their words.

yeah if GW got its act together and, tried, even a little, I'd actually have incentive to buy new, get white dwarf and such and such
I wanted GW to succeed, I once liked the games and did buy new, but that age has long since passed and it is sad
I would return to playing and buying more frequently if they, gave some semblance of a crap about their game, the community and had more realistic prices (in that order)

 MajorTom11 wrote:
We are insanely against piracy here at Dakka as a matter of policy. I find it extremely sad and ironic that GW itself encourages it by leaving a lot of customers with no other option if they miss certain issues or don't have an iPad. Come on.

Just release bloody pdf's and support the consumer for the love of pete... only people who are buying or interested in buying care, why put obstacles to purchasing your own stuff in place? This really irked me about the SOB and Flyer rules. It was fantastic that they did this in WD, I think most would say it was a step in the right direction.

The proper follow up would have been to put a pdf out 3 - 4 months later.

The absolute worst follow up is to discontinue the positively received action, and then compound it with additional new negative actions in just removing all real content out of the magazine.

We went from promises of content and a step away from being just a catalogue for 10 bucks to even more of a catalogue than ever before if this is actually true.

The worst part of all this is that many people will read comments like this and call internet whining or entitlement or 'What, GW is not allowed to make money?' comments... never realizing that most of us are pissed because we wanted them to succeed and by their own definition when they relaunched, they appear to have failed. A lot of people say Dakka is full of haters... although there are plenty of those running around, I usually find Dakka is full of a lot of people who are pissed because they care about GW and how they don't live up to their legacy or potential at times in certain ways. No one is going to say the models aren't better and better every year I think. But also, no one is going to say WD is better than it was 15 years ago either.

Exalted. Put it beter than i ever could have. Its something a lot of people dont seem to understand.

For example, I downloaded a pdf of the sisters of battle white dwarf release. I absolutely hated doing it, but what else could I do? I couldn't go to the store and buy it, couldn't go online and buy it, and didnt own an aple device to get it (truth be told, i'm not even sure if you can get it there). I'm not hunting down 2 seperate white dwarf issues on ebay to see if I want to even play it or not, so i downloaded it. I have lots of friends who are musicians. Piracy is a MAJOR issue for them, and I know how bad it can be firsthand.

But its kind of hard not to when GW doesnt give you an alternative. Were a sisters of battle codex released tomorrow, i'd probably buy it (even if it was a hardback *shudders*) just because I'd like to have a legal copy of the rules. But GW doesnt seem to be interested in doing that. Shame really.

So we WILL be getting PDF's of the Sisters of Battle WD codex?

"Once someone has time", and "an oversight by the design team"... yeah, not getting my hopes up here.

My main fear is that they'll start charging money for rules released for new models, i.e. new flyers, and only releasing them on I-pads.

cause everyone has an i-pad...

Honestly, I think we're close to seeing the end of White Dwarf. It might keep on as an electronic publication, with no need to keep copies "in stock." In its current incarnation, it has outlived its function as being anything more than a glossy, hundred page advertisement. It's like an infomercial that you can read on the john.

GW doesn't give 2 gaks about complaints. There was another reason for this.

 Harriticus wrote:
GW doesn't give 2 gaks about complaints. There was another reason for this.

Like they weren't selling as many white dwarf's with the rules as they thought they would...

Yeah, I'll be giving WD a miss next month and from then on. I was enticed back by the relaunch and the first one was better [in camparison to the depths plumbed by the previous editor] but has been steadily downhill from there. Even the posters, which might make it almost worth the money for people like me who like to stick Warhammer stuff all over their walls, are just catalogues in poster form.

There's no proper army reports, tournament reviews, army showcases [from real people], modelling insight, short stories, support for specialist games. Remove rules content and what's left?

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Yeah, I'll be giving WD a miss next month and from then on. I was enticed back by the relaunch and the first one was better [in camparison to the depths plumbed by the previous editor] but has been steadily downhill from there. Even the posters, which might make it almost worth the money for people like me who like to stick Warhammer stuff all over their walls, are just catalogues in poster form.

There's no proper army reports, tournament reviews, army showcases [from real people], modelling insight, short stories, support for specialist games. Remove rules content and what's left?

The world's most expensive kindling?

Griever wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Yeah, I'll be giving WD a miss next month and from then on. I was enticed back by the relaunch and the first one was better [in comparison to the depths plumbed by the previous editor] but has been steadily downhill from there. Even the posters, which might make it almost worth the money for people like me who like to stick Warhammer stuff all over their walls, are just catalogues in poster form.

There's no proper army reports, tournament reviews, army showcases [from real people], modelling insight, short stories, support for specialist games. Remove rules content and what's left?

The world's most expensive kindling?

Heh, Wouldn't surprise me if they use a type of paper that doesn't burn very well, just to make sure that you can't even use it for that.

I'm pretty much done with WD now myself. I wanted it to be good again, I really did, but I agree with a previous comment - the kindest thing for it now would be a metaphorical bullet to the head.

I'll be honest, for the last few months I've been buying a back issue of WD from my childhood on ebay once a month. I recently got the issue where they released third edition 40K. It's amazing after the current WD, there's boxouts on lots of the rule changes, a bit about the FOC, loads of info. You've got the new plastic space marine kit, with pics of the sprues and suggestions for assembly and conversions.

I'm loving these old issues. I recently stopped my WD subscription, and unless things change drastically, it'll stay that way. The magazine used to be so good.

I'll admit I'm a sucker for the presentation and feel of the new magazine, but the lack of content just kills it. It really is just a glorified catalogue. Ironic, then, that it's the 'golden era' of WD which had on the cover of each issue "Games Workshop's monthly catalogue" (or something along those lines) right there in bold text.

Hell, remember when you were encouraged to make walls and fences using things from the garden? :p

So... 5 or 10 bucks/ GBP's for back issues of White Dwarf?

How much is a good price that is reasonable?

I'm generally happy to pay about £3-5 for an issue. To be honest, it can't be any worse value than what we're getting now.

Here i thought i was the only one thinking wd has slid down a steep slope.

The relaunch one seemed sweet compared to the old ones, but a few issues along the battle reports have all the new stuff in em. It gives no feel for the potential of what it can do.
I am not gifted or anything but next wd battle report forcast says all the new stuff on the table with a mess of an army list woow.
if i were to want that i would have a game against a spoiled rich 8yr old that has all the models.
There is nothing worth reading in there its bland and
watery. Its missing the meat and potatoes. There is nothing to motivate you in there other than buy our new models. nothing to get you thinking or building cool stuff.

If the wd is a catalog then its pretty bad at doing even that. I mean i get those sears catalogs every now and then and those suckers are 200+ pages but dosnt cost me a dime. (Plus it has the bra section ).

The white dwarf is too expensive as a catalog and if its trying to be one i suggest gw starts selling bra's that's my two cents.
Also i am cowpow i am now 3 months wd free and still going strong

 Grot 6 wrote:
So... 5 or 10 bucks/ GBP's for back issues of White Dwarf?

How much is a good price that is reasonable?

Even full price is better than we can get now.
But, 2/3 of full price would be enough for me to order the odd copy now and then.

The issue is people complain about GW but still support them in droves by buying stuff. The only way GW will change is for people to walk away. Pirating doesn't prove to them their model,is bad, you still buy the models, and they still make a product you are consuming even illegally.

If a company makes it hard or impossible to purchase their product you simply do without and walk away. Don't consume it. Don't buy the rules, don't use the rules, don't buy the models, just walk away. Give your money to someone who operates In a way to get your business. Don't break the law and your integrity to fall over yourself to continue giving Gw your money, especially when they don't care about you.

Continuing to buy the plastic crack and complain about it doesn't encourage change... And Gw doesn't sell stock with every model, so owning their product gives you zero ownership in the company as much as customers seem to feel like they always deserve to be catered to.

All the rules released in updates may have made people happy. Having to pay for arguments sake a fiver to get them however along with something they deliberately print on glossy paper because it hurts to use it as toilet paper however is the drawback.

All they need to do for a HUGE positive shift towards them would be PDF each one, stick em on the website free, sell their shiny new models.

They won;t though.

And Ouze won the thread!

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

Because their attempt at bringing back content was awful. It was an incredibly stupid idea to release new rules in a magazine that was immediately sold out and unavailable and then ignore the problem indefinitely by refusing to release a pdf version (even as a paid download) for the people who didn't buy the relevant WD as soon as it was released. And of course these aren't trivial things like new campaign missions (which would be content, but not essential), they're core units for one of the big new mechanics in 6th (flyers) or an update that instantly created a dominating tournament list (demons). Both of these are releases that you have to have if you want to play the game, and the difficulty in getting them is a nice clear statement saying "pirate our rules, don't buy the magazine".

This.

PP get round the problem of having a theme list annual roundup in certain issues of No Quarter, with every theme list from the past 12 months put in a single issue in case you missed it in the first place. They could put out PDFs, but still; they actually address the problem such things are an essential part of the game and if your players have incomplete rules they're gonna be pissed.

GW does its usual MO of sticking its head in the sand and using a bazooka to swat a fly.

EDIT: On a side note; has anyone actually witnessed the conversation between irritated parent with little Timmy in tow and GW staff member about how exactly to get the rules for his new shiny Chibi flyer? I'm picturing the results being hilarious.

 Bewareofthephil wrote:
I'll be honest, for the last few months I've been buying a back issue of WD from my childhood on ebay once a month.

You know, that's a really nice idea! Might copy that one, there are plenty of issues I missed.

An alternative is 'Ravage' magazine, which I think is a wonderful new alternative, and in some ways reminiscent of what WD used to be many years ago.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

Because their attempt at bringing back content was awful. It was an incredibly stupid idea to release new rules in a magazine that was immediately sold out and unavailable and then ignore the problem indefinitely by refusing to release a pdf version (even as a paid download) for the people who didn't buy the relevant WD as soon as it was released. And of course these aren't trivial things like new campaign missions (which would be content, but not essential), they're core units for one of the big new mechanics in 6th (flyers) or an update that instantly created a dominating tournament list (demons). Both of these are releases that you have to have if you want to play the game, and the difficulty in getting them is a nice clear statement saying "pirate our rules, don't buy the magazine".

This.

PP get round the problem of having a theme list annual roundup in certain issues of No Quarter, with every theme list from the past 12 months put in a single issue in case you missed it in the first place. They could put out PDFs, but still; they actually address the problem such things are an essential part of the game and if your players have incomplete rules they're gonna be pissed.

GW does its usual MO of sticking its head in the sand and using a bazooka to swat a fly.

EDIT: On a side note; has anyone actually witnessed the conversation between irritated parent with little Timmy in tow and GW staff member about how exactly to get the rules for his new shiny Chibi flyer? I'm picturing the results being hilarious.

IIRC all the new NQ Theme Lists are also added to Warroom automatically and are available for perusal if you've purchased the deck that includes the 'Caster that runs the Theme List.

I'm probably in a minority, but I don't really want 'official' rules published outside of the codex. That's my reference tool, and I want it to be complete.

White Dwarf should be a vehicle for house-rules type articules. The Empire Knightly Orders article was an excellent example of this, as were the space marine cursed foundings and deathwatch articles. They were fun ways to play an army slightly differently, which may or may not be balanced but doesn't matter too much as its a house-rule, and provide a context for exploring some background narrative.