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2013/05/25 13:30:45
Subject: Mantic Dreadball News and Rumours thread (new pics of Teratons added)
Is it hard to see the keyboard past your tin-foil hat lol?
Seriously though, this idea that Mods are paid by companies is absolutely ridiculous... I wish that weren't the case though I would love to be on the take lol! Free $ is always welcome
Yes. I know that forum Mods are not REALLY paid by game companies.
But that, if anything, only makes it even more in-explicable why there are so vastly divergent standards in moderating criticism directed at Games Workshop and criticism directed at other miniature gaming company.
RiTides wrote: Dreadball has been prominently featured over at Dropzone Games, a store local to me, but I don't know if they've gotten leagues going or not... I'm very interested in trying it out once Season 3 hits and I can get my tentacled team
Great thing is because it is REALLY cheap to get a team you should just pick one up and start gaming so when the season 3 stuff comes it will be easier to get your head around the teams. When I Demo DB at the club I only use Season 1 teams as they have less additional rules compared to Season 2. Also I feel your missing out on a great game so I order you to go and play iI
RiTides wrote: Dreadball has been prominently featured over at Dropzone Games, a store local to me, but I don't know if they've gotten leagues going or not... I'm very interested in trying it out once Season 3 hits and I can get my tentacled team
Great thing is because it is REALLY cheap to get a team you should just pick one up and start gaming so when the season 3 stuff comes it will be easier to get your head around the teams. When I Demo DB at the club I only use Season 1 teams as they have less additional rules compared to Season 2. Also I feel your missing out on a great game so I order you to go and play iI
Yup it's quite possible to have a lot of fun just playing the Marauders/Corp straight out of the box. I've found the game to be quite fast and flowing - it's funny, how the rest of the world is changing in terms of entertainment (with things being more flowing, explosive, colourful, however you want to put it, and whether you think that's a good thing or not) has even seen that culture transpose onto miniature wargaming and the way game mechanics are handled.
^ It's the one where you can basically guarantee that your opponent automatically loses their rush, every single turn, without fail.
It can be avoided by not placing the players on the DB hexes, but if you're up against Judwan and they can move your players in their turn, then there's no way to avoid it.
It's possible (and quite easy with Judwan) to win a game without having your opponent ever roll a single dice or move a single model.
I'm not aware of anyone playing dreadball who doesn't houserule or flat-out ignore that particular rule.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/25 21:24:44
adamsouza wrote: So it hasn't really been in an issue in Season 1, but has become an issue in Season 2 with the introduction of the Judwan ?
Correct. Prior to this point, it was generally very bad play by the controlling player to allow that situation to happen, and that's why the rule was as harsh as it was; it was a penalty for not thinking ahead.
The Judwan's rule that allows them to move their opponent's model is where it's becoming broken as savvy players can simply manipulate your players to where the ball is launched and you then essentially automatically fail and lose your turn. Lather, rinse and repeat until the game is done. What was once a harsh penalty for being bad has now become exploitable by the team's special rule.
It's not that hard to house-rule it, but it is a head-scratcher on how that one didn't come out in playtesting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/26 00:35:13
Compel wrote: I...However, 'Fan Support' checks make this a little bit more complicated. Normally a 'Fan Support' check just means, you take a card over, count the number of dots and put it under your 'Home' or 'Visitors' card. Once you get a total of 3 dots, you get an extra dreadball dice and the used cards get squirrelled away for counting up after the game. However, if you get an Event Card it also counts for your Fan totals. However, it also also remains in play - So you can't keep it under your Home/Visitors card, cause you need to see what it does!
Our group was stumped by this until we were reading some stuff on Board Game Geek.
Somebody pointed out that Event cards all have '-' value for cheers (i.e., zero cheers).
They recommend keeping a fan checked Event card face up and out of the fan checks you are collecting.
It won't impact fan checks in the game AND since it doesn't add to your total number of cheers, it won't affect campaign play.
The rules are not very specific about that process, but it makes sense once you realize Events are Zero Cheer cards.
Krinsath wrote: Prior to this point, it was generally very bad play by the controlling player to allow that situation to happen, and that's why the rule was as harsh as it was; it was a penalty for not thinking ahead.
No, it was a penalty for thinking ahead. Remember, you are being punished for having a player in a position where they could catch the throw-in. In a real sport, this is a good thing. It is a failure of the rules that this is not at least neutral in Dreadball.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
Krinsath wrote: Prior to this point, it was generally very bad play by the controlling player to allow that situation to happen, and that's why the rule was as harsh as it was; it was a penalty for not thinking ahead.
No, it was a penalty for thinking ahead. Remember, you are being punished for having a player in a position where they could catch the throw-in. In a real sport, this is a good thing. It is a failure of the rules that this is not at least neutral in Dreadball.
Krinsath wrote: Prior to this point, it was generally very bad play by the controlling player to allow that situation to happen, and that's why the rule was as harsh as it was; it was a penalty for not thinking ahead.
No, it was a penalty for thinking ahead. Remember, you are being punished for having a player in a position where they could catch the throw-in. In a real sport, this is a good thing. It is a failure of the rules that this is not at least neutral in Dreadball.
You were being punished for having a specific player there; Guards with the inability to catch the ball actually don't cause the rush to end (they did not fail to make a catch as they can never catch in an odd logic) and Strikers are fine with attempting a catch. It was specifically Jacks that cause the problem as they will get 0 dice but can attempt to make a catch. Therefore they fail to make the catch and in turn your rush is over even though you had no chance to do anything. The only way to break the cycle is via coaching dice, and that isn't a particularly good fix.
The fluff aspect is the ball is being launched at high speed so it's very unlikely for an unskilled player to catch it so it isn't quite a "throw-in"; it's more analogous to the American football kickoff where they only want certain players fielding it and the other team goes to great lengths to avoid giving the ball to those players. The risk of that big penalty also keeps the line clear which in turn spreads the DB game out so the whole game isn't played on one half of the board.
Obviously you can just decide that the ball can be allowed to bypass players who don't want to try and catch it or, if you want to keep the risk factor, by allowing a free dodge attempt (and probably many more besides). People would just like Mantic to figure out what solution to that particular exploit they want in the game so people can play it consistently.
Funny thing is, not even Mantic Games' James Hewitt (?) seems to "intuitively" play it this way.
In the Beasts of War promo games, there's a similar situation where Warren's Veer-Myn should've lost the turn (after a double scatter of the launch) to James, but (like almost all people who "simply play" the game) they just continue on as if the failed catch at the launch wasn't actually yet part of the player's turn.
Zweischneid wrote: Funny thing is, not even Mantic Games' James Hewitt (?) seems to "intuitively" play it this way.
In the Beasts of War promo games, there's a similar situation where Warren's Veer-Myn should've lost the turn (after a double scatter of the launch) to James, but (like almost all people who "simply play" the game) they just continue on as if the failed catch at the launch wasn't actually yet part of the player's turn.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how everyone I've seen plays it, that the first launch is not part of anyone's turn so there's no turnover on a failed catch (as it didn't happen on your turn; turn doesn't start til the ball finishes moving)
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how everyone I've seen plays it, that the first launch is not part of anyone's turn so there's no turnover on a failed catch (as it didn't happen on your turn; turn doesn't start til the ball finishes moving)
hey, slightly off topic, i just assembled my season 2 figures from dreadball, and i got a bug head instead of the robot hero head. =/ where do i contact?
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2013/05/28 06:45:27
Subject: Mantic Dreadball News and Rumours thread (new pics of Teratons added)
nkelsch wrote: think it is 'ok' that you should be forced to pledge the new kickstarter to access the 'ask a question' button
You have access to that option without being a backer.
That will be next. Not sure why people were telling me to 'pledge a dollar' so I could talk to the kickstarter.
Eh, that's what I did. I only suggested it because he responded fairly quickly. Also, I feel the dollar buy-in is great for guilt-free complaining rights.
And I still have access to the pledge manager later should I like any of the sculpts.
Triple9 wrote: Yep, that's how I've been playing. Scatter on launch is fine. Never occurred to play it different.
Me too.. I actually wonder which pedant came up with making an issue out of it in the first place, or the level of their common sense. Does everything have to be spelled out in bloody A B C D then E, all of the time? "I walked on to da railway tracks becuz there wasn't a sign telling me not too... durrrrrrr "
Doesn't have to be a pedant. It seems to be a combination of a rare(ish) circumstance RAW getting queried, then clarified and confirmed by Jake as RAW, then having had the new S2 Judawan team able to exploit what was previously a rareish occurance. Living rules get changed and adapted as needed, but it seems to need to come from Jake. I'd argue it's unlikely to be an issue for friendly games, but when tournaments (and prizes!) come into play...
We play dreadball regularily at my club, once a week atm and all of us are enjoying it. There are 8 of us playing in a league atm with 5 of us who will continue to play after the elague finishes.
We must be one of the few groups that still plays RAW for the ball launch and scatters ending your rush. Yes its annoying but it doesn't happen very often.
We have a judwan player in our league and he doesn't use this tactic. I think it must be a matter of where you play. We rather than put the oposing team on the first launch hex square actually more often than not place one of our own team there and try to get a cheeky score.
I finally got a response from a person who works at Mantic who Stewart passed my case on to.
I am returning my damaged Season 2 Product for a refund (which cost me 40$ in shipping for 53$ in product and returning season 1 box would have cost around 100$) and getting a refund for the rest. I hope their math matches up to mine in the end. They are working on figuring out a refund price.
Considering I pledged 450$ + 110$ Paypal.
-50$ for battlefoam
-157$ for season 1 shipment
=353$
-5% for Kickstarter fees which I have to eat:
My refund SHOULD be 335.35$ for the returned Season 2 and the unfulfilled season 3 stuff.
That leaves me the core game to play with my Orx team and I can deal away the other 3 season 1 teams to other people who want to deal with the clean-up. If anyone wants some MVPs or Forgefathers/Veermyn/Corporation from season 1, I can cut you a good deal, even better if you are local.
My only advice is for people on the fence about stuff, like the KOW sculpts and BoGo issues... Return Shipping with tracking to the UK is expensive from the US. If you are not 100% happy with the sculpt and are on the fence or they haven't revealed it before shipping, I would recommend canceling your pledge and buying it retail where you can see it hands on and return it easily. Once it is shipped to you, the return shipping cost may be so high you are going to be stuck with it. It is going to change how I deal with Kickstarters which are international to me in the US.
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