Finecast Mail Order Only in 2-3 years

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**Vaktathi**

That I could understand, and that's fine, just wanted to get out that they do have some really great characterful stuff in many of the factions if the sci-fi/anime soldier thing of the two most common factions isn't doing it, particularly the more outlandinsh factions like Nomads and the Combined Army

**NAVARRO**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Now if we could just get lead back.

Now that would be something!

BTW I do wonder about the toxicity levels of finecast... not that I'm worried but its fun to know if these models aimed for kids are actually safe.

**Kanluwen**

Vaktathi wrote:
Squigsquasher wrote:
@Pacific, Just look at the example you posted. It's rather generic Sci-Fi. No real flavour. Just a Crysis 3 reject. Most of the Infinity models seem to sell on (admittedly very nicely sculpted) hexagons.

That's why I like 40K, and whilst I don't like many of their scuplts I do like the Warmahordes aesthetic. They both have real flavour and character.

Infinity...just doesn't.
Methinks you're not really looking at much of the Infinity line then. If you're only looking at the Yu-Jing, Ariadna and Pan-Oceania basic troopers, yeah, sure, they're relatively generic anime style models. Their more elite units have a lot of character however and if you've seen the alien Combined Army or Nomad lines at all you'd have a completely different impression.

Except out of the three factions you've listed, only Yu-Jing and Pan-Oceania have "relatively generic anime style models" for their line troopers. Unless I've missed something about Ariadna's basic troopers (the Metros, Line Kazaks, and Caledonian Volunteers) being heavily anime inspired?
Nomads are a mixed bag, Bakunin tends to have the more anime flair while Corregidor has primarily the more "tacticool" styled models. The notable exception is the absolutely garbage and unfitting Wildcat that was released this month.
Combined Army has the same mixed bag, with the Shasvastii being more grounded and realistic while the Morat are very exaggerated in an anime bad guy style.
The Tohaa are, so far, free of anime stylized models or silliness.
Haqqislam is relatively free of such as well.
ALEPH is a bit of a weird one, in that you have a mixture happening as the range is evolving. You have a lot of models having the anime exaggerations and stylizations (the Posthuman Proxy boxed set, Naga Sniper, a lot of the "posed" models like the Dasyu with Combi Rifle doing the one handstand) but you also have a notable attempt to make things fit within the overall visual aesthetic like the Myrmidons being done in such a way that they actually look "generic sci fi".

**Pacific**

Squigsquasher wrote:

Maybe. I dunno. They just, simply put, aren't my cup of tea. I don't hate them, although I do hate it when a 40K thread is hijacked by some asshat screaming "play Infinity instead!" which has admittedly coloured my perception of them. I will admit they are superbly sculpted though.

My emphasis in bold, yes that's the point I was trying to make.

But ultimately perhaps it's a mistake to bring Infinity into this, or any other manufacturer for that matter - ultimately there are a number of superb sculpts, within GW's own range, that would simply not be possible in plastic. That's something that is going to forever lost if this rumour holds to be true.

**Radiation**

They should just go back to metal. People need to toughen up and learn to work with it. The new plastic stuff looks terrible.

**Schmapdi**

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AegisGrimm wrote:

Finecast is another story entirely. As far as I've heard, even Simple Green will destroy a model you are trying to strip.

Interesting detail if true.

I wonder if it might not be deliberate to bring an end to the secondary market.

Not true - I stripped my Ogre Kingdoms Firebelly in Simple Green and it was just fine (I did use a shorter than normal dip though, just to be on the safe side).

**H.B.M.C.**

Squigsquasher wrote:
3 words: Metal Hive Tyrant.

I have 3 (6 if you count 3 2nd Ed Hive Tyrants). Never had an issue with them.

**TedNugent**

Pacific wrote:
plastic can simply not contain the detail that resin or metal potentially offer to the sculptor. Ease of construction yes, ease of conversion yes, but your character models are going to be looking more than a little 'plain jane' in the future if this turns out to be true

So plain Jane. Needs Finecast (TM).

**AegisGrimm**

I'm pretty sure that I can very easily make a counts-as Belial out of the Command Squad sprues that is not only as visually interesting as the Finecast one, but probably with just as many details- and in a physically tougher medium, as well.

Also, some small concessions to undercutting, the Space Hulk Terminators are as crisply detailed as any metal model. In fact, several of them, like Sergeant Lorenzo, probably more so. The trick is just having more separate pieces, that all come together to add layering.

*Not my paintjob- grabbed off Google

**AlexHolker**

Radiation wrote:
They should just go back to metal. People need to toughen up and learn to work with it. The new plastic stuff looks terrible.

The new plastic stuff looks terrible because of aesthetic choices. It would still look terrible if it was cast in metal.

**Jehan-reznor**

The problem is GW design philosophy , you cannot just use the metal molds and use them for resin, each material has its own design requirements, there is a reason why some figures in resin, have the small fine parts in metal, you should use each material for where it is best fitted for

**02Laney**

Choose a medium you like (or several), or better yet, choose the miniatures you like and buy them.

Metal wouldn't work for many of my models where I model them to look top heavy or 'impossible' - they'd just tip over constantly. I love converting, which is tons more difficult in metal and sculpting isn't a problem. Having said that, if I find a metal model I like I'll get it - Snikrot from the Ork range was a great metal purchase. There are excellent metal mini companies out there and to neglect them would be a shame.

Finecast is either a poor material or its poorly used, or both. Wouldn't touch it unless I'd checked every model by hand in advance (even the Nurgle marines I bought didn't look right - and they aren't supposed to).

Resin is a great material at times and holds detail really well, but it holds miscasts even better. As long as the QA of the company is good this isn't a problem (shame this isn't true for FW). Lightweight, but a touch too fragile at times. I find it really good for bigger models, where it holds lots of detail and doesn't need to be pinned.

Plastic - great for converting, modern plastics (when done well) look amazing (the Dreamforge plastics for example, not to mention the Sedition Wars minis) and provide greater potential (in my opinion) for unique models (problems with big GW models aside).

All these materials have good bits and bad bits - so mix and match to suit your needs.

Laney

**Breotan**

The complaint about plastic holding less detail may apply when an entire figure is stamped out like the old paint set guys from 2nd edition. There will always be limitations to 2-part mold technology, but with CAD, the model can be broken up into various sections and bits, each of which can be positioned and stamped for optimum detail and, when assembled, provide you with a model that has incredible detail everywhere. Haters gonna hate but GW is doing a fantastic job of this. So is Malifaux.

Metal is expensive to use in manufacture and a pain in the rear for the hobbyist to use and/or modify. Larger models are rather heavy and dynamic posing is limited by the possibility of the model being too top heavy or ungainly.

The biggest drawback to resin is that it is slow to produce product. Resin offers the best compromise between plastic and metal in regards to detail and assembly from the hobbyist's point of view but slows down production so much that it is almost not viable from a production standpoint of earnings per square foot of factory space. Once you pour the resin into the mold, you've got to let it sit for a very long time until it cures. Metal can be poured and demolded pretty fast. Plastic can be automated from start to boxed & on pallets ready to ship and let run 24/7 (for the most part).

**Kroothawk**

1.) Plastic kits have high investment and low casting material costs. Still only economic for high runs. No undercuts, though complex mould design can reduce the problem a bit. Details can be done, if the plastic is hard enough, but not fully reaching metal/resin quality (although close). Plastic models are good for high runs, for conversions and variability in hordes.
2.) Metal kits have low investment and medium casting material costs. Undercuts no problem, details no problem. Good for low runs (characters, some elite units), bad for big kits (weight, parts fitting) and conversions by the customer. But then again, these are often specific individual characters fully designed by the sculptor, so they are intended to be good as is.
3.) Resin/Finecast kits have low investment and low casting costs. Converting metal to Finecast kits is onyl limited by customer acceptance, not investment costs. Good for low runs, good for big kits, okay for conversions, bad for delicate parts that can break off. GW also has problems with quality control here.

So Finecast mail order only will reduce the availability and probably number of low run models incl. characters, but give us a bit more of convertible simpler plastic models. Looking at the current GW trend, plastic models get blander, more toylike (Hastings: "Not yet Happy Meal standard") and less detailed (even if more details would have been possible). Best thing would be having both high and low run models. Returning to metal would make characters popular again and eliminate quality control issues at once

**Squigsquasher**

I wouldn't call GW's recent plastics "bland"...

**UNCLEBADTOUCH**

Squigsquasher wrote:
I wouldn't call GW's recent plastics "bland"...

Happy meal toy springs to mind

**Squigsquasher**

...Really?

Like what?

**Kroothawk**

Squigsquasher wrote:
I wouldn't call GW's recent plastics "bland"...

I do. All those GI Joe flyers, Hulk miniatures and not a single wow idea, just:
"Dark Angels? Add wings and cathedrals. Chaos? Add tentacles and spikes."
Like they just have 5 seconds for each concept.

I repeat Hasting's comment here:

Too many flat surfaces devoid of even texture let alone detail. I really don't like any of this stuff apart from the plastic lord. However that's just me, I've discovered a whole heap of other companies that make stuff I like, I'm pleased that so many of you like this release..... the daemon models are nicer though
(...)
I figured out what bugs me about the beefcake of chaos/slaughterbrute it's the teeth, they look like the ones Mark Harrison plastered all over those chaos space marines a few years back, wonder if he did this too? I think the beefcake of chaos is growing on me..... The other stuff not so much lol

For the chariot it's the blatant re-using of the same CAD parts off the warshrine. It's like everything is a CAD kit bash of another kit recently. I wish they'd go back to traditional sculpting as some of GWs guys aren't ready for this type of sculpting yet. There's too much re-using of parts, and too many flat, angular (savage Orc bodies!?) and badly detailed areas (this triangular fur craze) for them to even think there amongst the best models in the world let alone claim to be "the" best.

What companies do you prefer for Chaos stuff? Or is it that you mean other companies have better ranges, worlds and systems not just alternative GW models? Genuinely interested.

As you are genuinely interested ill be happy to tell you.i believe that GWs biggest draw (and their sole greatest possession) are the worlds they've built(for both systems) they are almost living breathing organisms, recently even these have been eroded by the need to just sell sell sell (with stuff like by daemons etc to fight alongside your high elves - just for the sake of selling more models even if it goes against and diminishes 25+ years work) BUT I still honestly feel that their game worlds are second to none.

It's their models/designs/quality/price that are letting them down IMO. The models seem almost lazy in design with numerous "new" kits looking like kitbashes of other kits (just with a big price) check out the DA flyer, the recent woc cavalry etc for examples, it's not that they are bad but lazy, lets look at the slaanesh hell striders, the steed is an iconic beast of slaanesh, I understand that more than one follower of slaanesh would use it and I'm fine with that. It's the design work, the steed is lithe and has heaps of momentum, it looks like its doing 100mph, now take the riders, they look totally unaffected by that motion, for all intents and purposes those marauders could be sat having a pint in bugmans! That's how disjointed the two elements of the model feel, it's like they had the steeds lying around already made (which they did) they just suck a diffent rider on for a fast buck! The same with the skullcrushers, why didn't they at least change up the poses etc of the juggernauts? This kind of thing just seems lazy to me. Now we have the chariot, obviously another cad piece as it shares several parts with the recent war shrine and has loads of strange angles and surfaces that are devoid of texture and detail, like a mass produced child's happy meal toy has. Sure the old chariot was showing its age but it had texture, detail & character, this is just "by numbers" for me and nothing more. Even the posing is getting old now, must every quadricepped creature be stood on its back legs swatting invisible flies? Other companies are making truly dynamic models (using CAD as well as traditional sculpting methods I might add), GW just seems stuck in some awkward "copy paste" phase ATM IMO, they're either A/ struggling for ideas B/ struggling to produce finished items due to time constraints (although the number of sculptors at GW in ratio to the number of models released per month makes me doubt this) C/ trying to use a little effort as possible for as much financial gain as possible I.e. no need to sculpt steeds just the riders will do and that's another kit we can churn out or D/ their target demographic has changed.

My own belief is D. Supported by poor quality (finecrap), very high prices (high turnover clients who don't remain in the hobby)' a dreadful "hobby" magazine so devoid of content that only the pictures must attract a certain consumer - even the 'painting guides' can't really be called that anymore, where's the inspiration?

As for actual systems I'm led to believe Kings of War is very good when compared to WFB, also other systems are seeing greater support than ever before, although these could be linked to price rather than specifically GW game systems being better or worse than those of their competitors.

Do some searching on the net, there are so many companies out there right now making beautiful models, I don't think there's ever been a better time to be in the hobby.... if you are prepared to look beyond citadel's ivory tower.

Sorry about the OT post, although to be fair bits of it discuss the new warriors models so its not all bad

Umm haaaatings you said dragon ogres werent too good? i have to disagree on this one!

Excellent, glad you like them. They're an improvement (IMO) over the previous ones but they could have (IMO) been so much better. They look to me like someone stuck the torso of an ogre on a cow with a lizard tail. The fluff states they are not ogres or related to ogres, the dragon part/reptilian part should/could have been more lithe (IMO). Also why do they look nothing like a shaggoth who is meant to be an ancient Dragon Ogre (that's correct isn't it?). Still it's nice they're now in plastic with different options.

**unmercifulconker**

The Emperor and Khorne blesses us this day.

**Grot 6**

Looks all in all like a backpeddle on GW's part.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."

Too bad, too. I really liked these guys once. Almost bought a bunch of those chaos cultists for necromunda.

Would very much like to see finecrap just go away.

Straight up forgeworld buys would have done what this meeple material did, and actuaslly been worth the effort.

Just when you think the beatings were over....

**Squigsquasher**

Meanwhile, in the "too many flat surfaces" department, look at Warmachine models. Nothing but flat surfaces.

Spikes and tentacles have always been part of the Chaos aesthetic, just as angelic wings and gothic detailing has always been part of the Dark Angels aesthetic. No point moaning about it now when it's been like that for ages now.

And how exactly are the new fliers "GI Joe"?

Hasting's rant just seemed like one big long promotion of any company that isn't GW. Now that GW is the most popular wargaming company at the moment, it's become fashionable to bash them. If anyone leveled complaints at the Warmachine models for their ludicrous designs and flat, dull "details" or the Kingdom Death models for being, quite frankly, tasteless and stupid (tentacle rape boob monster, 3-faced giant with enormous penis anyone?) then they'd just get shouted at for being a "GW White Knight". Criticism of GW has reached such ludicrous levels that it is impossible to take hater's rantings seriously anymore.

If you don't like the designs, then fine. But don't say that they're actually bad or lazy. Because they really aren't. The amount of work that goes into making models is staggering, so you should at least appreciate that.

**Kroothawk**

Squigsquasher wrote:
If you don't like the designs, then fine. But don't say that they're actually bad or lazy. Because they really aren't. The amount of work that goes into making models is staggering, so you should at least appreciate that.

I don't like the designs and find them bad and lazy. There, I did it, despite your orders. They are devoid of character and inspiration, sometimes even contradicting established GW fluff ("We just took great pains to separate Daemons and human warriors." "Shutup, just add Daemons with spikes and tentacles to the Warriors, and I don't want to see one unmutated model, is that clear!"). Hasting's gave several good examples of copy-paste-CAD-lazyness.

Last inspiring GW releases were Dark Eldar (because Jes got full control on design and production) and the CSM part of the starter, with Necron releases being quite okay.

**Zanderchief**

So why not remix their Resin? Having a go at it then saying f it when it produces lower than expected results is a bit extreme. Being the biggest company in the industry by far should allow for decent R&D. But we all know what happens when big companies don't innovate (i was at Nokia until recently...).

Plastics are generally my fav material and something no one has picked up on is that they also take paint better than metals and fcast (well they seem to anyway for me).

I recently brought some fake stuff and the detail was almost spot on but the biggest thing was that the peices were study and not fcast bent (though god knows what they are made of... this is China after all). How can you make worse products than fake Chinese copies???

**Squigsquasher**

[Mod: No racial characterisations, please.]

**Pacific**

Squigsquasher wrote:
Meanwhile, in the "too many flat surfaces" department, look at Warmachine models. Nothing but flat surfaces.

Spikes and tentacles have always been part of the Chaos aesthetic, just as angelic wings and gothic detailing has always been part of the Dark Angels aesthetic. No point moaning about it now when it's been like that for ages now.

And how exactly are the new fliers "GI Joe"?

Hasting's rant just seemed like one big long promotion of any company that isn't GW. Now that GW is the most popular wargaming company at the moment, it's become fashionable to bash them. If anyone leveled complaints at the Warmachine models for their ludicrous designs and flat, dull "details" or the Kingdom Death models for being, quite frankly, tasteless and stupid (tentacle rape boob monster, 3-faced giant with enormous penis anyone?) then they'd just get shouted at for being a "GW White Knight". Criticism of GW has reached such ludicrous levels that it is impossible to take hater's rantings seriously anymore.

If you don't like the designs, then fine. But don't say that they're actually bad or lazy. Because they really aren't. The amount of work that goes into making models is staggering, so you should at least appreciate that.

As Squigsquasher, where would we be without you.

If you had been around for longer, you would know that the 'GW bashing', as you call it - at least at this level, where more people than not are disparaging against some of the new releases, is a recent issue of the past couple of years. To take one example, when GW were producing miniature kits that looked like they weren't aimed at a place under a 12-year old's Christmas tree, then the comments reflected that. When there were indeed spikes and tentacles on chaos miniatures, but those were used in a tempered manner, to fit the aesthetic whole of the piece, rather than just put over everything and making the miniature look like a jumbled mess - again, the comments reflect that.

When the Dark Eldar were released, they received practically universal praise for the miniature line and rightly so; from any miniature design perspective they were wonderfully conceptualised and designed models. If a new model, like the new Zoid-like chaos flyer for instance, is lambasted by a good 75% of the community. Then, there is probably a good reason for that.

**Sidstyler**

Kroothawk wrote:
Last inspiring GW releases were Dark Eldar (because Jes got full control on design and production) and the CSM part of the starter, with Necron releases being quite okay.

**Zanderchief**

I am Chinese because i am in China and i am on an English speaking website? Did you not see i was also taking the pee out of the Chinese fake industry also? I was trying to point out that GW... With its big budget should be way ahead of the game. The fakes are as good (in the detail) but they also do not have bubbles in them or snap in to pieces so easily.
I am not trying to endorse buying fakes (it was the first time i did and some stuff is geniuely hard to get here - such as mail order for instance) just pointing out something i observed... But you go.all racial on me... Thats always a good arguement.

**H.B.M.C.**

Squigsquasher wrote:
You're Chinese. Of course you would say the Chinese fakes were better. You're probably payed by the government to promote Chinese business.

Every post you make just pains such a funny picture.

**Squigsquasher**

Sigh...So now I'm being accused of being racist...Again.

You know what? I give up.

You lot are obviously so dedicated to ranting and raving about how evil GW is and how anyone who likes them and doesn't play Warmahordes or Infinity is an idiot or a white knight that there really is no point talking to you.

Apparently not hating GW is equivalent to being a holocaust denier on this forum.

Screw this, I'm outta here.

**Zanderchief**

I dunno about this... "Stuffs for kids these days". Looking in rogue trader with some clown like faces and flambouyant color schemes that they had going on.... Wasn't that a bit childish? Also didn't people complain it was all too Grim Dark??? Well now you get Dinobots and Flying Churches.... What's next? :-p

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I love GW. I really do. I just think in some areas they could do better (being the market leader and all).