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I think the plastic PINUPS OF DEATH set certainly proved that when we finally get all of this stuff, it is going to be amazing...

@highlord tamburlaine,

Hehe, please don't misunderstand. I am happy to take care of said requests. But our pledge manager is not setup to easily do so. We initially had a system of keeping notes on every single backer, but the number of special cases grew to an unmanageable level. Now we are going back in and spending more dev time building the proper tools so that myself or Joe can actually update the database, instead of relying on soley Anna to do so.

None of this is bad, but its very much small biz growing pains. For the additional pledge manager stuff, I place it at the lowest priority, so whenever I need everyone on deck to finish up content or meet a deadline it gets pushed to the side.

ugh I can't believe I missed this KS.

Twitter:
@kingdomdeath: Small store restock! Check it out. http://t.co/kdTEY4eBOh

Can't remember if the preacher is included in the KS rewards. Tempted to order one but might hold off and wait until after the pledge manager has been reopened.

I thought Adam mentioned adding one more mini to all the pledges as a thanks for backer patience...but I could be mistaken. If so, maybe it was the preacher?

I don't think he added a mini- pretty sure it was even more heads to choose from.

It's not something I want, but this seems pretty cheap for those who were after the wet nurse:

http://shop.kingdomdeath.com/collections/in-stock/products/naked-experiment-of-death

The rest of it is probably not really worth the time, but that's a big miniature for only $12.50 (since you get two).

But this pinup collection in hard plastic, while well done... 8 hard plastic minis for $100? KD is onto something when they can get gamers to happily pay those prices

http://shop.kingdomdeath.com/collections/in-stock/products/pinups-of-death

darn you RITides. And I had just sold my demonette army too . But the wet nurses will fit right in with my creaturecaster pincer demon when it arrives.

It's an odd one - normally you'd only go for hard plastic if you were targeting the mass market, as that's the only way you can hope to recover costs.

The alternative, which I've never seen before, is to price things at a premium. People were willing to pay $25 for resin versions of these models, so it stands to reason that they'd be willing to pay $12.50 for ones that are "almost as good" - particularly when the originals are no longer available. I'm a little taken aback by that, but I understand that if you carve out your niche in the hobby sector, you can more or less name your price.

The part I'm most interested in is how this affects KD:M as a board game. Will people be willing to pay $250 for the base game? Particularly when it releases with several expansions, each of which is going to be $50 to $80 per monster. It might be the most expensive non-limited edition boardgame that I've ever seen make it to market.

Board games have traditionally tried to reach as wide a market as possible, but I get the impression that this isn't the priority here - it's creating something that's of high a quality as possible.

$12.50 for plastic models does seem a 'bit much', but that is part of the "Kingdom Death Brand/Mystique".

I don' t think it can be sustained in 'plastic', but I also admit that I could be wrong there!

I mean, just look at the proposed 'retail' prices on a lot of the KINGDOM DEATH: MONSTER stuff!

It was only $80 for the Fri-Sun it first went on sale.

there will be a market, even if it's not a mass market,

GW plastic characters come in at substantially more than $12.50 and they do sell (although many would see them as too expensive) and those don't come with nice art postcards either

as for the game $250 is a huge amount of cash, but it was never going to be a game for mass distribution simply because of Adam's stance of not wanting to sell via discounters

so it will be selling to people who spend $25 on a resin human mini or $50 to 150 on a big monster, and based on those prices what you get in the box starts to look cheap (lots of human sized minis and several big ones). Not a casual impulse purchase, but something a fan will be prepared to save up for

I think you're right, Orlando- I guess what I was saying is that, Kickstarter prices were quite attractive for folks wanting to get in on this. People who want to later look like they'll be facing some stiff prices. I think people think his quality is worth it, and they may well be right, just pointing that out.

But you keep receding to it as $12.50 for one big miniature since there are two in there, but you really get 8 regular sized minis and the two big monsters for 30.00(shipping included). For those of us who didn't get into the kickstarter that's great pricing. And since they are t making anymore of either(any) of these better hurry as there's only 28 more sets as of this post. The contents are as follows

2x PVC Wet Nurse
2x PVC Pinup Twilight Knight
2x (set of 3, 6 total) PVC Female Servants

I really have no use for them, except I'll get practice working on skin tones.

@Bioptic, And people still buy Mercedes and BMWs despite being able to pick up cheaper Civics.

And it's $12.50 for a 35mm figure. These ladies are a head taller than your average Space Marine. And some of those 35mm ladies have more parts than the original Rhino. (I kid, but only slightly.)

I mean I'm surprised anyone would pay $100 for Warhammer rules. But then I'm not that into Warhammer rules so...

Iain.

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:there will be a market, even if it's not a mass market,

GW plastic characters come in at substantially more than $12.50 and they do sell (although many would see them as too expensive) and those don't come with nice art postcards either

as for the game $250 is a huge amount of cash, but it was never going to be a game for mass distribution simply because of Adam's stance of not wanting to sell via discounters

so it will be selling to people who spend $25 on a resin human mini or $50 to 150 on a big monster, and based on those prices what you get in the box starts to look cheap (lots of human sized minis and several big ones). Not a casual impulse purchase, but something a fan will be prepared to save up for

This might not ever be 'Mass Market' more due to its 'theme' and 'design' vs. the pricing!

I think there was a coincidence / miscommunication about the $12.50-

Other people were referring to the plastic injection molded pinups, which are 8 for $100, or $12.50 apiece.

I was originally just saying the wet nurse was a good deal for those who wanted it, and said that price since there are two of them in the deal. That is an experimental box, all in PVC, so the quality on the other models is not as high as the injection molded versions.

So, the experiment in PVC aside, it's really a question going forward of what price people are willing to pay for injection molded characters- and the answer and that GW and Kingdom Death seem to be realizing is, quite a lot . Since they can be compared to resin/metal characters, which go for as much or more.

I think it just remains to be seen if there's ever anything to stem this trend, as I was certainly hoping injection molding would lead to cheaper models. These are cheaper than the resins he offers, though, it's just that they're all "boutique" and quite high.

I think what bothers me more is other companies like privateer press switching to PVC but leaving prices close to where they were on their latest releases, but that's a whole different discussion...

 Malkaven wrote:
ugh I can't believe I missed this KS.

Me too..

And what makes this worse, is that this looks like being by far the biggest price disparity I have seen between the KS and the product that will be on shop shelves.

 RiTides wrote:
I think it just remains to be seen if there's ever anything to stem this trend, as I was certainly hoping injection molding would lead to cheaper models. These are cheaper than the resins he offers, though, it's just that they're all "boutique" and quite high.

I think what bothers me more is other companies like privateer press switching to PVC but leaving prices close to where they were on their latest releases, but that's a whole different discussion...

So KD offers models that are slightly less detailed than their resin for a 40% discount. Knight Models sells comparable models cast in white metal for comparable prices. Apparently comic books miniatures are also boutique. (More likely the collector only needs one of any of the figures so their isn't much repeat business for the same model.) A 40% price difference even in bulk it pretty good.

But as you said it's a boutique biz with low runs and high overhead. What about people with larger runs? Outside of GW, I'm guessing most people mean Privateer. Hands up if you find it crazy that a boutique miniature company is producing in polystyrene before the no. 2 in the industry. Can I put my hand down now? Instead Privateer is playing around with that resin that they are. They can't see a business case for metal molds and polystyrene figures. At best their prices would stay the same to pay off the large capital investment. And lets face it, these companies resculpt models every 2-5 years. I doubt their volume is enough to justify hard plastic.

On the flip side all the metal manufacturers are being squeezed for metal prices. This is why the experimentation in resin and plastic, cost. So if Privateer finds a material that lowers their unit cost they still have to pay back the capital cost. And lets face it the margins after wholesalers and retailers take their cut aren't great. So the modest cost savings is best for everyone if it remain in Privateer's pocket. You'd never see it after wholesalers and retailers got a chance at pocketing it.

Remember, Kingdom Death Monster will be sold by KD for $250 with no middle men. At a brick and mortar store that would be $500. So what savings is there to be passed on when you're just trying to keep your shirt?

Iain.

PP in my opinion has shown lessening interest in making nice models for some time now, since the focus is clearly on the game, so I don't think it's weird that they're not working with nicer material.

Noticed they have the resin Dung Beetle Knight in stock. Grab them while they last. Down to 8 now.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
PP in my opinion has shown lessening interest in making nice models for some time now, since the focus is clearly on the game, so I don't think it's weird that they're not working with nicer material.

I would agree with this sentiment.

 cincydooley wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
PP in my opinion has shown lessening interest in making nice models for some time now, since the focus is clearly on the game, so I don't think it's weird that they're not working with nicer material.

I would agree with this sentiment.

I don't know, some of the newer models have been really nice. eMorvahna, some of the lesser warlocks/casters, as well as some of the resculpts have been quite nice. It seems to me that they have always been hit or miss, so I don't know if is the case that they are slipping from say 60:40 bad:good to 75:25. Maybe?
I suppose I would have to agree that their models have become more chicken legged/"Every day is upper body day!" looking lately, and so would agree towards a general decline in quality.

Oh, I definitely agree that that doesn't mean their top-end sculpts are worse, but feel like their general QC for material and sculpts has gone down hill.

You can see this attitude in their resculpts compared to other gaming companies. While Wyrd has been updating old sculpts with dynamic poses and GW is always adding more do-dads to theirs, PP feels like it's mostly just working towards making theirs more efficient to cast and sometimes larger. (Not saying resculpts aren't improvements, but IMHO most aren't.)

 Wehrkind wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
PP in my opinion has shown lessening interest in making nice models for some time now, since the focus is clearly on the game, so I don't think it's weird that they're not working with nicer material.

I would agree with this sentiment.

I don't know, some of the newer models have been really nice. eMorvahna, some of the lesser warlocks/casters, as well as some of the resculpts have been quite nice. It seems to me that they have always been hit or miss, so I don't know if is the case that they are slipping from say 60:40 bad:good to 75:25. Maybe?
I suppose I would have to agree that their models have become more chicken legged/"Every day is upper body day!" looking lately, and so would agree towards a general decline in quality.

My impression (perhaps incorrect) is that the standards of their metal models (which includes things like warlocks/warcasters and solos) is quite high. The problem I have noticed is related to their (PVC) plastics. The nadir generally seems to be the plastics of the Convergence launch, which were (at least in the initial offerings) objectively terrible.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Oh, I definitely agree that that doesn't mean their top-end sculpts are worse, but feel like their general QC for material and sculpts has gone down hill.

You can see this attitude in their resculpts compared to other gaming companies. While Wyrd has been updating old sculpts with dynamic poses and GW is always adding more do-dads to theirs, PP feels like it's mostly just working towards making theirs more efficient to cast and sometimes larger. (Not saying resculpts aren't improvements, but IMHO most aren't.)

See, other than Kingdom Death I'm finding that most of the computer sculpted stuff is lacklustre. Wyrd's stuff got bland when they went CG. GW, see also. And I think PP has jumped on the bland CG wagon.

This doesn't mean that all those original models were works of art, but rather the good outweighed the bad and they had character.

Iain.

Wyrd did get a little more generic, but I think their line (in both plastic and metal) has always been a bit hit-or-miss when it comes to character/preference. GW, yeah, a bit, but I've always attributed that largely to their push towards modularity. Except their plastic IG infantry, which I think is mostly just trash.

Yea, I would agree the QC for PVC is generally pretty PooP. The quality of metal casts seem to be pretty good (at least what I have gotten) compared to PVC, but I don't know that the sculpting quality has improved or degraded. The look of models has become perhaps more along the lines of self parody, with crazy shoulderpads, weapons and tiny legs, much like how GW gets with skulls. I don't know how much of that is subjective decreases in quality only; I know I don't like it, but there's a guy in my local group who loves it more than his kids, so maybe it is just catering to a taste I don't share?

I would definitely agree that PP might be making their sculpts increasingly niche, however. I used to buy some of their models for conversions before I started playing, but there haven't been any models I have lusted after just for the quality of the sculpt for some time.

I agree. The plastics are garbagio. Plus I'm still pretty salty the black 13 haven't gotten a resculpt.