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2016/11/25 13:47:53
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
What's kind of sad was that, barely a half hour in, and some people were already screaming in the KS comments about lack of communication because Poots hadn't already done an update yet.
Seriously, did anyone really expect for it to do that well that fast? Likely, Poots has to toss out all of his prepared stuff and do all new graphics for stretch goals and whatnot. Probably also has to redo the entire campaign page to show everything. All of that takes time.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2016/11/25 13:57:16
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
A good description of the game from reddit, in case anyone else is wodering what the hell this is:
Spoiler:
The actual gameplay is pretty amazing. Here's Boardgame Brawl talking for an hour about it.
The game is essentially three games mashed into one. You hunt a monster (table of events, sort of like Arabian Nights or Warhammer Quest), you fight a monster, you go home and develop your settlement.
The bulk of the game is the Showdown against your quarry, who has an amazing AI system that makes them play the best of any AI opponent I've faced. They have targeting priorities, varied attacks, interesting abilities, etc. And their AI deck is also their life, so every time you hit them you remove an AI, but that means you have to watch out, because as it gets wounded it'll get desperate and start reusing whatever's left in the deck, so you kinda want to manipulate it so that strong attacks get weeded out at a good time. Each monster also has a unique Hit Location deck, for all the monstery bits you could be stabbing. There's a to-hit and to-wound roll, so you could hit the monster in the horn and glance right off, or hit it in the jaw but poorly so that it bites off your arm, or stab it true right through the eye and cause it permanent injury. The most devious bit, though, is the Trap. Every monster's HL deck has a Trap, that if you hit it, terrible things happen and they reshuffle their deck. So if you go after a White Lion and pull the trap, it anticipated your blow and swung back HARD, possibly even hurting other people around you. Every AI for every monster, every Hit Location, and every Trap are different, no re-use.
The settlement phase is mostly keeping your characters alive and crafting, Monster Hunter style. Maybe this year it rained acid, so so-and-so went blind but so-and-so figured out how to refine iron into steel. Maybe you decide to spend all those parts you managed to bring home from the Lion haul on a killer suit of armor for your best guy, or maybe you used the materials to Innovate and learn, say, how to tell Sagas. It's there to support the showdown, like the hunt, but it gives everything kind of its own life.
Theme is the last thing I wanted to mention. I feel thematically it nails the Dark Souls/Berserk dark horror vibe moreso than the Dark Souls board game, or anything else for that matter. There's almost always a chance of instant death looming for most actions. On a Hunt, the ground could open up and kill all four of your hunters on a series of terrible rolls. Maybe a few of those hunters were your last men, and now your women can't have children, and your settlement of vengeful wives sets out to punch a Lion in the face until dead, or die trying. Your strongest survivor, ready to pass on her talents to a new generation, dies in childbirth, and her husband becomes mad with rage and learns how to berserk. You heroically try to stab the Lion in the soft palate, and fail horribly and lose a hand. Everything in Kingdom Death wants to kill you, so it's all the more amazing when someone beats the odds, and raises an army of children who all bear their name. Or you roll that ten, draw the right card, and then roll another ten and stab the Lion right in its goddamn windpipe, killing it instantly. Or you have both your arms ripped off, but don't take enough Bleed damage to die just yet, so you pick up your dagger in your teeth and manage (somehow!) to blind the Screaming Antelope before it kicks your skull in.
It's the procedural stories that come out of this game that make the time and money involved worthwhile. There really is nothing else like it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/25 13:58:36
2016/11/25 14:48:14
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
Vitruvian XVII wrote: A good description of the game from reddit, in case anyone else is wodering what the hell this is:
Spoiler:
The actual gameplay is pretty amazing. Here's Boardgame Brawl talking for an hour about it.
The game is essentially three games mashed into one. You hunt a monster (table of events, sort of like Arabian Nights or Warhammer Quest), you fight a monster, you go home and develop your settlement.
The bulk of the game is the Showdown against your quarry, who has an amazing AI system that makes them play the best of any AI opponent I've faced. They have targeting priorities, varied attacks, interesting abilities, etc. And their AI deck is also their life, so every time you hit them you remove an AI, but that means you have to watch out, because as it gets wounded it'll get desperate and start reusing whatever's left in the deck, so you kinda want to manipulate it so that strong attacks get weeded out at a good time. Each monster also has a unique Hit Location deck, for all the monstery bits you could be stabbing. There's a to-hit and to-wound roll, so you could hit the monster in the horn and glance right off, or hit it in the jaw but poorly so that it bites off your arm, or stab it true right through the eye and cause it permanent injury. The most devious bit, though, is the Trap. Every monster's HL deck has a Trap, that if you hit it, terrible things happen and they reshuffle their deck. So if you go after a White Lion and pull the trap, it anticipated your blow and swung back HARD, possibly even hurting other people around you. Every AI for every monster, every Hit Location, and every Trap are different, no re-use.
The settlement phase is mostly keeping your characters alive and crafting, Monster Hunter style. Maybe this year it rained acid, so so-and-so went blind but so-and-so figured out how to refine iron into steel. Maybe you decide to spend all those parts you managed to bring home from the Lion haul on a killer suit of armor for your best guy, or maybe you used the materials to Innovate and learn, say, how to tell Sagas. It's there to support the showdown, like the hunt, but it gives everything kind of its own life.
Theme is the last thing I wanted to mention. I feel thematically it nails the Dark Souls/Berserk dark horror vibe moreso than the Dark Souls board game, or anything else for that matter. There's almost always a chance of instant death looming for most actions. On a Hunt, the ground could open up and kill all four of your hunters on a series of terrible rolls. Maybe a few of those hunters were your last men, and now your women can't have children, and your settlement of vengeful wives sets out to punch a Lion in the face until dead, or die trying. Your strongest survivor, ready to pass on her talents to a new generation, dies in childbirth, and her husband becomes mad with rage and learns how to berserk. You heroically try to stab the Lion in the soft palate, and fail horribly and lose a hand. Everything in Kingdom Death wants to kill you, so it's all the more amazing when someone beats the odds, and raises an army of children who all bear their name. Or you roll that ten, draw the right card, and then roll another ten and stab the Lion right in its goddamn windpipe, killing it instantly. Or you have both your arms ripped off, but don't take enough Bleed damage to die just yet, so you pick up your dagger in your teeth and manage (somehow!) to blind the Screaming Antelope before it kicks your skull in. It's the procedural stories that come out of this game that make the time and money involved worthwhile. There really is nothing else like it.
Sounds really awesome. But how many things are there to hunt? It seems that apart from survivors, the box only comes with 7 other figures, 3 of which are animal-like creatures. What does that mean for variety and replayability? Miniatures look absolutely amazing though...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/25 15:17:16
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2016/11/25 15:17:31
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
So will this ever hit retail? Or if I miss this, I'm screwed till 2020?
Also is 2020 just a date, you DEFINITELY will get your pledge, or this is when we ought to wait this thing to arrive ? 4 years is just mental, it's like booking a rare camping trip on one of those trails ( You know what I'm talking about )
And another question: how do people cope with not being able to buy what they want all the time? Like a dung beetle knight dlc is already sold out (I wanted to buy him and lion God just to paint)
If most stuff is unavailable most of the time: how does the game cope with it: replay ability, community?
Edit: found out about all the date questions, still wondering about "stuff lacking in the shop" part
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/25 15:43:49
2016/11/25 15:46:53
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
I want to back the Silver Lantern for the Gamblers pledge, but I'll be damned if I'm waiting on Poots again for 3 years. Core Upgrade and any add-ons that are wave one for me right now. I assume we will see the Lanternt King in a wave one purchase.
2016/11/25 15:48:11
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
I had a little bit of that knee jerk reaction at first, but if you scroll down you see the date for the core box is what you'd expect (mid 2017) and the further dates are for the content that will be made as a result of the campaign. I think there are 4 delivery waves... so yeah, that's a long projection out!
However, I think that's actually really wise of him in many ways given all the content that was added in the first campaign. I just can't imagine the cost to get all content for both... or I guess I can, it's $1666
2016/11/25 15:48:23
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
Sounds really awesome. But how many things are there to hunt? It seems that apart from survivors, the box only comes with 7 other figures, 3 of which are animal-like creatures. What does that mean for variety and replayability?
Miniatures look absolutely amazing though...
In the core set, you have 3 "hunts": Lion, Antelope, Phoenix. then you have several "Nemesis" monsters that show up every so often to bother your survivors, like the Butcher, The Hand, and the Kingsman. Lastly, you have old Lanternrobes himself, the Watcher.
I dont find that it gets stale or boring too quickly. I'd wager I've played at least 75-100 lantern years between my half dozen or so campaigns. The way the AI decks are built really adds a lot of variety to the encounters. So even if you fight the lion 3 years in a row, he'll behave differently. Plus, you can make him harder and harder to compensate for stronger survivors.
That said, adding in another expansion or two for hunts wouldnt go amiss. Variety is the spice of life, after all
Interesting pledge levels. I wish there were less levels with more info. So far it doesn't explain what all the promos, etc are, or what the box thing is.
Sold my first kickstarter stuff as someone gave me a hell of a deal... looks like I'm back in and may actually get to play the game this time!!
I wouldn't be too worried about missing that 666 pledge either. Poots has released sets of the origional kickstarter plastic promos on his store before... so kickstarter exclusive/promos doesn't mean much from history. There are also recasters in Europe who make the promos in resin for cheap if you need them.
IN ALAE MORTIS... On the wings of Death!!
2016/11/25 15:51:23
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
Sounds really awesome. But how many things are there to hunt? It seems that apart from survivors, the box only comes with 7 other figures, 3 of which are animal-like creatures. What does that mean for variety and replayability?
Miniatures look absolutely amazing though...
It does only come with 7 models in the core box to hunt, but each one has multiple difficulty levels. The actual showdown is also only one portion of the game. With the different research paths, settlement events, hunt events and injuries changing your characteristics/skills as well as different tactics during a hunt, things can and will change every time. Do not expect to complete the game in one sitting either. This is very much a campaign thing that will take many sessions to complete the story.
Some expansions offer additional creatures to hunt, others provide a different end goal and new settlement events... some even have monsters turn up in your settlement and change how that works. So far each one offers some great changes to the story and you can't actually use all of them in one playthrough anyway.
really a microcosm of everything that is great and bad with KD. Long delay, bad communication, but incredible theme and mini. Probably will pledge but will wait to see a bit more of the content before doing so.
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
2016/11/25 17:09:40
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
Didn't get onto the bandwagon during the firsr KS, doubt I'll do it now, but I still want several of those monsters...anyone unhappy with his Phoenix? No? Bummer.
Looking for a Skaven Doomwheel banner to repair my Nurgle knights.
2016/11/25 17:25:16
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
This is THE Kickstarter for piggybacking pledges. For example, I want the Lantern Festival, but not the $60 upgrade kit. So, I'll piggyback on someone local's pledge, pay the $15+2 = $17 shipping for that wave, pay for gas to pick it up, and come out massively ahead.
I expect the pledged-amount-per-backer numbers are going to go bananas.
Didn't get onto the bandwagon during the firsr KS, doubt I'll do it now, but I still want several of those monsters...anyone unhappy with his Phoenix? No? Bummer.
Assuming you can swing it financially, you would do very well if you just bought the game, kept the sprues you want and part out the rest on ebay.
2016/11/25 17:48:09
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
Sounds really awesome. But how many things are there to hunt? It seems that apart from survivors, the box only comes with 7 other figures, 3 of which are animal-like creatures. What does that mean for variety and replayability?
Miniatures look absolutely amazing though...
It does only come with 7 models in the core box to hunt, but each one has multiple difficulty levels. The actual showdown is also only one portion of the game. With the different research paths, settlement events, hunt events and injuries changing your characteristics/skills as well as different tactics during a hunt, things can and will change every time. Do not expect to complete the game in one sitting either. This is very much a campaign thing that will take many sessions to complete the story.
Some expansions offer additional creatures to hunt, others provide a different end goal and new settlement events... some even have monsters turn up in your settlement and change how that works. So far each one offers some great changes to the story and you can't actually use all of them in one playthrough anyway.
Yeah to add to this the monsters you hunt with different levels all play substantially differently. The tactics you need to use to successfully fight a level 1 compared to a level 2 white lion, for example, are very different indeed. This is due to them using two decks, basic and advanced and the higher monsters use more advanced cards than basic. The higher level monsters also have legendary actions and extra abilities called traits.
I manage to play 1 year of the game in about 3 hours depending on the length of the showdown and the new updated core game goes up to year 30 now. So even really quick players will get at least 50 hours or of just 1 campaign. This games replayability is crazy, each campaign feels very different due to the randomness.
2016/11/25 18:06:11
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
Its funny, but I liked KD:M, but found it so unwieldy that it got in the way of its own rich potential. Dedicating a 6x4 table to it for weeks at a time, and my group finding it fun, but random to a degree than made Warhammer Quest seem like Catan by comparison, was just not for us.
It wasn't as aesthetically sexy, but man we've had more gaming fun with Shadows of Brimstone in the last month then we ever did with KD:M.
And yes... $750 for the Gold Ancient pledge... is still less than I sold my set for, which has me for some reason taking note...
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)
2016/11/25 18:09:56
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
Didn't get onto the bandwagon during the firsr KS, doubt I'll do it now, but I still want several of those monsters...anyone unhappy with his Phoenix? No? Bummer.
The Phoenix is actually pretty easy to get. Most people from the original Kickstarter campaign got an extra one and there's no game use for more than one.
If I Had a Rocket Launcher, I'd Make Somebody Pay
2016/11/25 18:34:18
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
I recently got back into the game, and putting the figures together, playing a couple of games, and one offs is a good start. Its easy to get intimidated by the advanced models, but stick to your skills and the figures, even with a rudimentary paint job come out pretty good.
It is also easy to get overwhelmed with a 2X2 full box of supplemental adds, the 2X3 double stuffed core game box, and the massive box of cards, chits, and spruces.
Backing this game is probably the best Kickstarter game that you ever will get in on, but it is a show of a ride. End state, Poots was excellent with communication, and the product went through quite a few stumbles, but came out a top notch product for the quality and price. I ended up dropping over 700 bucks on it in the end, and was honestly not disappointed for what I received. Had it been GW, Mantic, or another company, the price would have easily topped over 2-3 Grand. Poots's issue is that the figures, supplemental, and model production is very small, and the reprints are slow in completion. Something that I hope he has pushed forward and addresses in reprinting and producing already developed stuff.
I'm going to go on and say it though. You know how people get attached to their "Characters" in games, or take an exception when something happens to them in game? THAT is an ongoing issue that you may or may not have, so from the outset, you can go ahead and go right in with a warning that your characters are disposable, and bad things happen to every one of them. Not all settlements make it, and not everyone goes out a hero.
Best advice to players- keep an open mind, and don't get attached.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2016/11/25 18:40:38
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Its funny, but I liked KD:M, but found it so unwieldy that it got in the way of its own rich potential. Dedicating a 6x4 table to it for weeks at a time, and my group finding it fun, but random to a degree than made Warhammer Quest seem like Catan by comparison, was just not for us.
It wasn't as aesthetically sexy, but man we've had more gaming fun with Shadows of Brimstone in the last month then we ever did with KD:M.
And yes... $750 for the Gold Ancient pledge... is still less than I sold my set for, which has me for some reason taking note...
I agree with this, I felt the game took to much micromanagement. I also didnt have a dedicated table, so once a week I was unpacking this and setting it up, it killed it for me. To many little things to keep track of and remember. I currently have the core game and all expansions. Of which we have only actually opened half of because one play through was enough to not want to deal with it all again. I will probably try and sell mine once I unpack from my move, hope to get those people itching for a game and not wanting to Wait till 2037
2016/11/25 18:53:47
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
Didn't check in on this till noon, so missed out on the $777 pledge which is where I'd probably have ended up. I wish there was a pledge for just all of the new gameplay stuff, don't really care about pinups. But I'm tentatively in for a $927 right now, going to give it a few days to sort itself out and see where we're at.
Pretty nuts.
2016/11/25 18:54:01
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
BobtheInquisitor wrote: This is THE Kickstarter for piggybacking pledges. For example, I want the Lantern Festival, but not the $60 upgrade kit. So, I'll piggyback on someone local's pledge, pay the $15+2 = $17 shipping for that wave, pay for gas to pick it up, and come out massively ahead.
I expect the pledged-amount-per-backer numbers are going to go bananas.
How much is the lantern festival? I didnt see it listed in the new KS. The bs with the gambler packs is already a huge turnoff, particularly since he can just put whatever he wants in there since there's nothing filled out on the damn chart.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/25 18:56:36
2016/11/25 19:04:16
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
As to the Lantern Festival- I expect that we will see it later in the week or next month. There was a large contention on that one, and they were supposed to address it in this KS. People were going on about it being pushed for a higher price, and there were some sour grapes, but at the end of the day he did give a refund back on it, so it goes to logic that there will probably be more to the add, and we will get info on it when he's got it settled.
In hindsight of the Festival expansion, I think it is going to be one of those larger expansions with a higher pricetag, and I wouldn't be surprised or shocked if it is one of the $110+ packages. The old one had a good amount of additions, and in the change to the P and H from the beginning of KS1, I can see the big issues revolving around packaging, shipping, and weight. My base box was around 5-10 lbs or so with the base game.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2016/11/25 19:17:52
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
Grot 6 wrote: Is that Armor kit package still available?
As to the Lantern Festival- I expect that we will see it later in the week or next month. There was a large contention on that one, and they were supposed to address it in this KS. People were going on about it being pushed for a higher price, and there were some sour grapes, but at the end of the day he did give a refund back on it, so it goes to logic that there will probably be more to the add, and we will get info on it when he's got it settled.
In hindsight of the Festival expansion, I think it is going to be one of those larger expansions with a higher pricetag, and I wouldn't be surprised or shocked if it is one of the $110+ packages. The old one had a good amount of additions, and in the change to the P and H from the beginning of KS1, I can see the big issues revolving around packaging, shipping, and weight. My base box was around 5-10 lbs or so with the base game.
People are rightly pissed about the Lantern Festival. He agreed to sell a product for one price, then of hi own volition, kept adding stuff to it and priced it out of his initial offering. It's kind of crummy to just say oops, refund the original payment years later (thanks for the no interest loan!), and then immediately offer it for a jacked up rate and saddled with a yet more stuff the previous customer may or may not want.
If we're going to be forced to get a "foot int eh door" type pledge, it would also be nice to get the hunt board reprinted on sturdy cardboard. I've seen stronger cereal boxes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/25 19:19:27
2016/11/25 19:20:47
Subject: Kingdom Death - News and Rumors Thread - Black Friday Sale and Kickstarter 1.5 both Live!
As before, I am fully expecting that the Lantern Festival likely splits into multiple Expansions, each with armor set or other expanded content. That is basically what Poots told us when he cancelled it.
Just guessing:
* King = major expansion (like Sunstalker);
* Scribe = minor expansion (like Gorm); and
* Hunters = nemesis (like Manhunter).
Indeed, the thing with the Lantern Festival was, that until the last moment he was talking about fulfilment and then all of the sudden it was a refund instead. Kudos to him for refunding us the full amount, but it was rather abrupt.
)
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) 
If I Had a Rocket Launcher, I'd Make Somebody Pay 
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
--