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the heavy tavor trigger is actually fairly normal as the MIL LEO stuff lately has been encouraging heavier trigger pulls to reduce accidental shooting or unintended slap fires I think.

All my LEO/MIL stuff has heavy triggers, my M&P came out the box at about 9.5ilbs,

but some polish and spring adjustment will easily bring any gun down a few, I tend to do that to most triggers even if its just polish to smoothen out the trigger action more then make it lighter.

1941, All matching.

Then I have a project for a POS mix-master Mosin once I have my Class II manufacturing permit.



When you have necessity to put hole of fist in enemy at 10m> and set him on fire with breath of dragon and vodka.

The broken English really sold that.

That's how Ivan sent the plans out. Who am I to tell him his grammar correcting needs? Have you SEEN what Russians do to Nazis? feth that.

Nice but.....

LOL....

who needs a hand cannon when you have 12 slugs and AOW's!

duel weld those, and be able to cock both pumps with one hand and keep firing, and I will buy you a beer.

 easysauce wrote:
the heavy tavor trigger is actually fairly normal as the MIL LEO stuff lately has been encouraging heavier trigger pulls to reduce accidental shooting or unintended slap fires I think.

So. Going back to the Tavor for a moment here. Sorry it's kept cropping up so much over the last 2 pages.

I didn't understand what Easy meant by "slap fire", so I googled it. It seems to be more commonly called "slam fire", at least I've heard that phrase (although I wasn't 100% sure what it meant then, either, until today's googling). It looks like rifles with a free floating firing pin can sometimes, when the chambering a round, have the pin strike the primer, and sometimes do so hard enough to fire and cycle a round even without the trigger being actuated when using more sensitive ammo produced for the civilian market. The SKS seems to be well known for this, especially when dirty, and there is an aftermarket kit to add a spring to the firing pin to prevent this.

The Tavor also can do this. Now I'm wondering - is the secondary spring, the one one Breotan's video says can be removed, is it to prevent this from happening? Or would the spring need to actually be attached to the firing pin? Or is the sole purpose of the secondary spring to intentionally increase the trigger pull weight for the reasons Easy described?

I imagine that slap/slam fire is less of an issue for the IDF as, if I recall, they typically carry their firearms without a round in the chamber. When they were first establishing Israel they did not have a standard weapon and as they each operated differently the SOP was to carry with a loaded magazine and no round in the chamber. This lead to what is called the Israeli or Mossad draw

Ive never owned a firearm being based in the UK. I have fired a few during my short time in the Army Cadets though. Fired a L98A1 Cadet Rifle and another single shot no magazine weapon that I cant remember the name of. Might have been this though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No.8_rifle

I enjoyed what little shooting I did and if I lived in a country with firearms I would probably shoot recreationally at the a gun range. Much like I plan to do with archery once I can which was also fun and much easier to find in the UK.

For the curious:

This is the Israeli/Mossad draw as I learned it: (Remember kids my carry is a 1911A1, I don't have a choice between condition 1/condition 3)




(this guy's 5 count presentation is good, but his stance is weak)

and this is a modification that looks pretty solid:



Me? I'll just rock it at condition 1.

With proper training, as long as you have a modern firearm and a holster that completely covers the trigger, condition one is the way to go as far as I'm concerned. Israeli carry just gives you more opportunity to make a mistake in a situation where you can't afford to make mistakes.

I don't trust (myself in) condition 1 at all, personally. I myself go 3.

 Ouze wrote:
I don't trust (myself in) condition 1 at all, personally. I myself go 3.

It's a personal thing. Condition 3 is better than no weapon at all. If I was going to carry condition 3 I'd definitely make a point to practice drawing and racking the slide a lot though.

Yeah, I've done that. I know the 1911 is designed to be carried by that but it just feels so... I dunno, I just don't trust myself. I suppose if I had been in the military or in law enforcement and had spent a long time carrying, it would be different.

I don't use the safety at all; either it's not shooting time or it is, and I don't chamber a round until it's the latter, or (I expect it to imminently be so).

Just got this from my wife's grandfather's house



Not a huge revolver fan, but a 4" barrel makes me happy, and I'm swimming in .38 and .357 currently.

 Ouze wrote:
Yeah, I've done that. I know the 1911 is designed to be carried by that but it just feels so... I dunno, I just don't trust myself. I suppose if I had been in the military or in law enforcement and had spent a long time carrying, it would be different.

I don't use the safety at all; either it's not shooting time or it is, and I don't chamber a round until it's the latter, or (I expect it to imminently be so).

Well, to be fair, I don't think that I would carry a 1911 in condition one either. The single action trigger is a bit too much for me to be comfortable with. Anything that I would carry condition one is double action or at least DA/SA.

1911 is actually still safe though, the grip safety is on even if the switch safety is off.

I prefer trigger safeties and nothing else, but to each their own

 easysauce wrote:
1911 is actually still safe though, the grip safety is on even if the switch safety is off.

I prefer trigger safeties and nothing else, but to each their own

Oh, I know. It's just my personal hangup, more than anything.


The tables have turned on me!

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Ruberu wrote:
As for me I just got a Steyr Aug A3 on layaway last week, might be picking it up today. Got it for $700 below MSRP so I could not pass it up. Its use is pretty much eye candy. I've wanted one for a very long time and could not pass on the deal that was given to me.

Colour me jealous Any plans to use an optic and modify the charging handle?

I have an Aimpoint micro on it right now. I am going to get a small riser and co-witness with some Troy iron sights. I might get an Aimpoint magnifier but we'll see. I am getting the Rat Worx charging handle and trigger. The trigger is the worst I've ever felt on a rifle lol. Only other thing I might do is add the brass deflector for left hand shooting. Its so cheap and I would not like to take brass to the jaw if I needed to shoot it from the other side.

@easysauce, its a shame they won't let you own bullpups there, They are awesome little rifles. Mine has a 20" barrel and is still shorter than my 16" ar.

My Aug was at the store for about 6 months before I bought it. I would come in and hold it everytime I was there. This was one of those "give it time" cases. It did not move and they needed to clear out space.

AUGs are not on my list of gak to have in stock first thing once I get my store open. They're cool, and you want one or two "cool" rifles on hand, so I might grab a civie SCAR, a Tavor, and one or two "cool" ones like that, but honestly it's best to focus your milsup on AR-15s of various flavors, standard issue AKs and some classic items for flavor.


And a barrel of Mosin Nagants by the door.

Bullpup rifles just always seem kinda....weird...to me. I've never shot one, but they just look off to me.

 d-usa wrote:
Bullpup rifles just always seem kinda....weird...to me. I've never shot one, but they just look off to me.

I think that it's because they are such a departure from how traditional rifles look.

Could I get some thoughts and opinions from those with more knowledge than I on shotguns, specifically traditional stocks v adjustable stocks with pistol grips.

I'm not an expert, but in my anecdotal experience, traditional stocks work best for shotguns in most scenarios. I'd really only like the pistol grip if storage space was at a premium, or if I expect to be going around really tight corners (which I don't, not being a soldier or a swat team member). I've found the advantages of the pistol grip are a slightly more natural feeling grip, but it's way offset by the additional perceived recoil. I've felt like I'm significantly more accurate with a traditional stock, although in a home defense scenario, it's probably not significant, it being a shotgun.

If you get a Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870, get the traditional stock - the pistol grip is only like $30 so you can have them both and decide what you like better. The combinbed shoulder stock + pistol grip might be a nice middle ground for $100 or so.

 Ouze wrote:
I'm not an expert, but in my anecdotal experience, traditional stocks work best for shotguns in most scenarios. I'd really only like the pistol grip if storage space was at a premium, or if I expect to be going around really tight corners (which I don't, not being a soldier or a swat team member). I've found the advantages of the pistol grip are a slightly more natural feeling grip, but it's way offset by the additional perceived recoil. I've felt like I'm significantly more accurate with a traditional stock, although in a home defense scenario, it's probably not significant, it being a shotgun.

If you get a Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870, get the traditional stock - the pistol grip is only like $30 so you can have them both and decide what you like better. The combinbed shoulder stock + pistol grip might be a nice middle ground for $100 or so.

Id gotten a Mossy 500 Cruiser with a near useless J.I.C. II 5.11 bag. Id agree about a stock. Right now cant decide which to get, a foldover or a collapsible stock. The stockless 500 recoils quite a bit to maintain a good enough grouping for followup shots, but damn if it isnt compact enough for close quarters with that 18.5 inch barrel.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
Bullpup rifles just always seem kinda....weird...to me. I've never shot one, but they just look off to me.

Changing the mag takes some getting used to, especially if youre used to an AR, POA is a lil different, but a red dot fixes that. It is way more compact than an AR, especially with a pinned 16 inch barrel, perfect for indoors or from a vehicle. First thing to replace on them is that nasty gubmint trigger though, much like an AR. Many police departments are phasing them in to replace ARs as a patrol rifle.

I carry "condition one", but that's because I use a revolver and there really isn't much of a choice unless you leave a bullet out of the cylinder.

 Ouze wrote:
I'm not an expert, but in my anecdotal experience, traditional stocks work best for shotguns in most scenarios. I'd really only like the pistol grip if storage space was at a premium, or if I expect to be going around really tight corners (which I don't, not being a soldier or a swat team member). I've found the advantages of the pistol grip are a slightly more natural feeling grip, but it's way offset by the additional perceived recoil. I've felt like I'm significantly more accurate with a traditional stock, although in a home defense scenario, it's probably not significant, it being a shotgun.

If you get a Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870, get the traditional stock - the pistol grip is only like $30 so you can have them both and decide what you like better. The combinbed shoulder stock + pistol grip might be a nice middle ground for $100 or so.

A shotgun with a pistol grip and no stock is legally defined as a pistol in Indiana (where we live)

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
AUGs are not on my list of gak to have in stock first thing once I get my store open. They're cool, and you want one or two "cool" rifles on hand, so I might grab a civie SCAR, a Tavor, and one or two "cool" ones like that, but honestly it's best to focus your milsup on AR-15s of various flavors, standard issue AKs and some classic items for flavor.


And a barrel of Mosin Nagants by the door.

I would not blame you for not having a Steyr Aug in your store. They are hard to move, expensive and don't come with any sights. People are all over the "new" cool ones like the listed Tavor and Scars, not a 36 year old Austrian bullpup that (at one time) did not take Nato standard magazines.

On the other hand I would blame you for not having a barrel of Mosin Nagants by the door!

As well you should, a barrel of nuggets is mandatory

Put a few hundred rounds through the austeyr, which is i think basically a copy of the AUG, whilst my time in navy.

Seem to work fine to me, doesnt feel weird or anything, but ive never gone near any type of AR or rifle so i dunno

A Marine buddy of mine got to cross-train with the AUG, and he loved it. Dem bullpups are always so comfy! haha