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Don't worry Stonebeard they are making a full sized standalone. So, if you want a revolving bullpup shotgun, you can have one without NFA forms or tax stamps.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Frazz, that's great in theory. Personal experience? It's not always an option. Particularly in an area with a long police response time. (Salamanca's sometimes take 2 hours to drive three blocks, like the time my car was stolen.)

I've had to call 911 twice since I've moved here, and the response times were right around 30 minutes each time; which is what happens when you live out in the sticks and have only the county police. I have no reason to think that in any situation police would arrive before whatever might happen is long since over. YMMV depending on venue; I never owned firearms when I lived in NYC.

http://gizmodo.com/watch-darpas-scary-self-guided-bullets-swerve-to-hit-mo-1700601163?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


This is pretty much the plot point from "Runaway" starring Tom Selleck and Gene Simmons.

.. so .. be careful !

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

I'd disagree. You should be in a safe position, not paying tacticool ninja trying to slice the pie. Call the police and brace that shotgun until they arrive.

Frazz, that's great in theory. Personal experience? It's not always an option. Particularly in an area with a long police response time. (Salamanca's sometimes take 2 hours to drive three blocks, like the time my car was stolen.)

When is it not good in practice? Deciding you're going to go wandering around with a rifle is the worst thing you can do.
If you have to gather family members then I'm not wasting time with a long gun. I need a free hand for family members, and a long gun around corners is not ideal.

Well I'm getting off topic again, so I'll just say, do what you feel is most appropriate for you and your situation. Not everyone has the same access that I have to a tactical nuclear wiener dog and a mountain dog that thinks you sure have a purty mouth heh heh.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

I'd disagree. You should be in a safe position, not paying tacticool ninja trying to slice the pie. Call the police and brace that shotgun until they arrive.

The last thing I want is some police officer playing Battlefield: Hardline in my living room, possibly shooting me in the process. I've had better training than them...I'd rather handle it myself and call them after the fact.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stonebeard wrote:


Serious note: would the length of the rifle count toward the length of the shotgun?

OAL, maybe. Definitely not barrel length though - that thing is definitely SBS or AOW.

Looked into it, they make a model with an 18.5" barrel that will take care of any AOW/NFA issues.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

I'd disagree. You should be in a safe position, not paying tacticool ninja trying to slice the pie. Call the police and brace that shotgun until they arrive.

Frazz, that's great in theory. Personal experience? It's not always an option. Particularly in an area with a long police response time. (Salamanca's sometimes take 2 hours to drive three blocks, like the time my car was stolen.)

When is it not good in practice? Deciding you're going to go wandering around with a rifle is the worst thing you can do.
If you have to gather family members then I'm not wasting time with a long gun. I need a free hand for family members, and a long gun around corners is not ideal.

Well I'm getting off topic again, so I'll just say, do what you feel is most appropriate for you and your situation. Not everyone has the same access that I have to a tactical nuclear wiener dog and a mountain dog that thinks you sure have a purty mouth heh heh.

Actually, the handgun is what I use to get to the house carbine. Less chance of missing and over penetrating with the AR than your common pistol calibers. Training takes care of any shortcoming you may have in how to wield a long gun in confined spaces.

That said, your number one goal would be to secure your family, and await police response - arming yourself should the assailant(s) decide to press the issue - and let them clear the house. Shotguns suck for home defense (recoil, over penetration, sound). Unless you're Joe Biden, then they are "the bomb".

But yes, use what you've got, waiting for police response while unarmed is ludicrous: when seconds count, police are minutes away.

 reds8n wrote:
http://gizmodo.com/watch-darpas-scary-self-guided-bullets-swerve-to-hit-mo-1700601163?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


This is pretty much the plot point from "Runaway" starring Tom Selleck and Gene Simmons.

.. so .. be careful !

It's about time. I always thought it was kinda weird that, in 2015 (which by any movie I saw as a kid was clearly THE FUTURE), we're still killing dudes with little flying pieces of metal like we have for 700 years. Bullets with guidance are a nice step forward, as would be a pill you take that contains all of your meals.

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

I'd disagree. You should be in a safe position, not paying tacticool ninja trying to slice the pie. Call the police and brace that shotgun until they arrive.

The last thing I want is some police officer playing Battlefield: Hardline in my living room, possibly shooting me in the process. I've had better training than them...I'd rather handle it myself and call them after the fact.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stonebeard wrote:


Serious note: would the length of the rifle count toward the length of the shotgun?

OAL, maybe. Definitely not barrel length though - that thing is definitely SBS or AOW.

Looked into it, they make a model with an 18.5" barrel that will take care of any AOW/NFA issues.

So, in a pinch, it could be used as a harpoon as well! Tactical underslung shotgun harpoon. The zombie hordes will never see it coming.

Actually, the handgun is what I use to get to the house carbine. .

I like a pistol in that role, at least in Austin.
1. Its ready to go ina quick access safe, but safe until then from idle hands.
2. I have one hand free to guide others.
3. I run about 1,500 rounds a month now and am very comfortable with a pistol.

Now Houston is different. I have a loaded Remmy there. I'm not worried about idle hands, and if it ever floods out, its so big I could use it as a canoe.

Mind you both places have long guns in case of cough***Baltimore***cough.

Long gun: More stability, more accuracy, more stopping power, more bullets .... all the advantages over a handgun.

That is, until you try opening a door while carrying a baby, lol.

Heard that in a carbine class one time...

 KiloFiX wrote:
Long gun: More stability, more accuracy, more stopping power, more bullets .... all the advantages over a handgun.

That is, until you try opening a door while carrying a baby, lol.

Heard that in a carbine class one time...

AR pistol FTW.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
Long gun: More stability, more accuracy, more stopping power, more bullets .... all the advantages over a handgun.

That is, until you try opening a door while carrying a baby, lol.

Heard that in a carbine class one time...

AR pistol FTW.

Slow, heavy recoil, can't aim properly. er....no. If you're going to shoot pistol...shoot pistol.

 Frazzled wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
Long gun: More stability, more accuracy, more stopping power, more bullets .... all the advantages over a handgun.

That is, until you try opening a door while carrying a baby, lol.

Heard that in a carbine class one time...

AR pistol FTW.

Slow, heavy recoil, can't aim properly. er....no. If you're going to shoot pistol...shoot pistol.

Slow? Heavy recoil? What?

It's under 5 lbs and it's chambered in 5.56...I've heard of recoil sensitivity but come on man.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
Long gun: More stability, more accuracy, more stopping power, more bullets .... all the advantages over a handgun.

That is, until you try opening a door while carrying a baby, lol.

Heard that in a carbine class one time...

AR pistol FTW.

Slow, heavy recoil, can't aim properly. er....no. If you're going to shoot pistol...shoot pistol.

Slow? Heavy recoil? What?

It's under 5 lbs and it's chambered in 5.56...I've heard of recoil sensitivity but come on man.

Your reaction time is slower than if wielding a Glock, or even better a real pistol like an M&P or Sig .

Simple physics. Yours is 5 lb. Mine is 1.5 lb.

 Frazzled wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
Long gun: More stability, more accuracy, more stopping power, more bullets .... all the advantages over a handgun.

That is, until you try opening a door while carrying a baby, lol.

Heard that in a carbine class one time...

AR pistol FTW.

Slow, heavy recoil, can't aim properly. er....no. If you're going to shoot pistol...shoot pistol.

Slow? Heavy recoil? What?

It's under 5 lbs and it's chambered in 5.56...I've heard of recoil sensitivity but come on man.

Your reaction time is slower than if wielding a Glock, or even better a real pistol like an M&P or Sig .

Simple physics. Yours is 5 lb. Mine is 1.5 lb.

From low ready it should be a negligible difference in time. If you're strong enough you can hold an AR-pistol at low ready one-handed no problem especially if you're using the buffer tube (or other device...) against your shoulder.

See this oldschool Elian Gonzalez pic for reference:



Low ready to:



You're describing a training deficiency. And, this all assumes that you're carrying a baby. So in the extremely unlikely case that I have to carry a baby in the middle of a gunfight in my house, we'll call it a draw between the pistol and AR. In all other situations, the AR wins hands down.

Video of just how easy it is to shoot an AR one-handed. AR pistols are no different.

In fairness, all of those weapons have a stock.

 Hordini wrote:
In fairness, all of those weapons have a stock.

Exhibit B:

The real benefit to those Sig braces is being able to strap one AR15 to each of your arms.

 Ouze wrote:
The real benefit to those Sig braces is being able to strap one AR15 to each of your arms.

You could also throw a pair on some 24" barreled varmint rifles and use them as crutches.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
In fairness, all of those weapons have a stock.

Exhibit B:

Very well.

Not to derail the thread but anyone have recommendations on some good CCW holsters. A few months ago I moved to a free state and started carrying. Right now I have a bladetech eclipse that I slightly modified. Looking at the G-CODE incog.

yellowfever wrote:
Not to derail the thread but anyone have recommendations on some good CCW holsters. A few months ago I moved to a free state and started carrying. Right now I have a bladetech eclipse that I slightly modified. Looking at the G-CODE incog.

What gun are you using, if you don't mind me asking? Or if you do, what size (sub-compact, compact, full size)? What method(s) of carrying are you looking at doing? Inside Waistband (IWB), Outside Waistband (OWB), pocket, ankle, bellyband, shoulder?

yellowfever wrote:
Not to derail the thread but anyone have recommendations on some good CCW holsters. A few months ago I moved to a free state and started carrying. Right now I have a bladetech eclipse that I slightly modified. Looking at the G-CODE incog.

Do you want to carry AIWB, IWB, OWB?

I really like AIWB but there's the whole "pointed at your dink" thing that some people can't get past.

There are a bunch of reviews on ARFcom of G-CODE's Incog, with the consensus being that it's really hard to hide anything with it.


These things get really good reviews: http://www.phlster.com/

These also get really good reviews: http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html


I carry my Shield AIWB in a Bladetech Klipt and like it a lot...my only criticism is that the clip is way bigger than it needs to be. I like that there's enough space along the sight channel for me to clip my light. With AIWB it's really about individual preference, but I find that longer clips that have a bit of vertical travel are more comfortable because they let the holster move slightly as you change positions. It's not enough movement to interfere with your draw, but it's enough so that if you bend over the pistol isn't jabbing you in the ribs.

I'm carrying a G23/G19. I have both. The G23 Is modified. Right now I've been going OWB at 5 o'clock. I have been considering appendex carry though.

 Ouze wrote:
The real benefit to those Sig braces is being able to strap one AR15 to each of your arms.

Its only effective if you're chewing a stogie, or alternatively, wearing a tutu.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

And, this all assumes that you're carrying a baby.

Thats my point circumstances for everyone is different. I can't lock an AR in a quick safe in the bathroom which is strategically located under a shelf containing an emergency bottle of Bourbon, rum, and port (you never know when you have to party! ), and my wife can't go around swinging a rifle one handed.

Each person is different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yellowfever wrote:
Not to derail the thread but anyone have recommendations on some good CCW holsters. A few months ago I moved to a free state and started carrying. Right now I have a bladetech eclipse that I slightly modified. Looking at the G-CODE incog.

Comp-Tac and Crossbreed are standards in the IWB space. Are you IWBing or OWBing?
EDIT: appendix carry-that scares me.

I have Foxx IWB hybrid holsters for my Shield, M&P 45c and G19. They work great and are half the price of a Crossbreed. Just remember to upgrade to Kydex clips.

Kytex make nice spare mag carriers too.

Slow, heavy recoil, can't aim properly. er....no. If you're going to shoot pistol...shoot pistol.

Sounds like you never shot one.

Sounds like I know that something that weighs more will move more slowly than something that weighs less. its the same reason an M-16 is faster on a tacticool course than an M-14.

Sounds like I know that something that weighs more will move more slowly than something that weighs less. its the same reason an M-16 is faster on a tacticool course than an M-14.

Still sounds like you never shot one though.

You're right. I've not shot an AR-15 "pistol." My son however is a physics major and I have slept at a Holiday Inn.

Why is it the AR fanboys can't accept that other people prefer different choices than your coyote gun?

You're right. I've not shot an AR-15 "pistol." My son however is a physics major and I have slept at a Holiday Inn.

Why is it the AR fanboys can't accept that other people prefer different choices than your coyote gun?

I dont care what you shoot, so as long as you are shooting.

It just sounded like you never shot an AR pistol.

Thank you for answering my assertion. - Respect

Happy shooting!