Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Ouze wrote:
Street Sweeper was an awesome looking gun, though.

Oh, I agree 100%.


I just wish that Armscor could've worked the bugs out of the design. It was a positive step toward a dedicated combat shotgun.


Not that it would've mattered in the long run, as far as the U.S. market goes. The BATF, in their infinite wisdom, decided the Street Sweeper (and clones), and semi-auto version of Daewoo USAS-12, were "destructive devices" and subject to NFA regulations. Go figure.

The street sweeper has some 80's cool factor going for it in terms of looks, but it really is an awful gun, and it's silly name got it banned despite being far less capable than most other shotguns (hooray for legislating purely on feels!)

On another note, I got home and found a package on my doorstep containg my shockingly expensive ($6 ) steel G3 mags. I can see why they went with the aluminums, the steel mags are easily 3x or more the weight...but damn are they built like a truck, these things are ~55 years old and damn near indestructible.

 Vaktathi wrote:

On another note, I got home and found a package on my doorstep containg my shockingly expensive ($6 ) steel G3 mags. I can see why they went with the aluminums, the steel mags are easily 3x or more the weight...but damn are they built like a truck, these things are ~55 years old and damn near indestructible.

I have 20 or so and they are tough, built to last for darned sure.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The gun fairy came and visited yesterday!

I will probably get some sort of magnified optic for it at some point, but need to do some more research. I'm *really* liking $3 magazines.

Stock up while you can. FAL mags used to be dirt cheap, now they're rarer than hen's teeth and have the price to match

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A question for American dakka members: have any of you guys ever owned guns made by Cobray?

I watch the forgotten weapons channel on youtube ( being into historical wargames I'm curious to see how these old guns work) and while I was scrolling through the old videos, I came across some of these horrors!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TygqLGNnXJE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnpOis10NyQ

Bloody hell! These are awful guns. I'm no expert but even I couldn't believe how impractical they were.

I hope none of my fellow dakka members ever owned one or thought about owing one!

I've seen those videos and those firearms just seem horribly impractical to operate

This thread has gone a really long time, and mostly because we've stayed out of politics. That's a great rule and one I plan to stick to.

I mention this only because you mentioned stocking up on mags, and that's actually a really good idea. I don't know who the next POTUS will be, and I don't know what their agenda will be, but I do know even if he or she does nothing or nearly nothing on gun issues, there will still likely be a huge wave of panic buying. So, right now while the election is up in the air is probably a really good time to pick up things that might at some point wind up the target of future legislation, or at least at perceived targets, stuff like magazines in excess of 10 rounds, shotguns with pistol grips if you're in the market, M855 ammo, and so on.

I have a friend who now owns approx 40x 30 round magazines for his AR15 just in case. I don't think I'll go that far, but I'll probably pick up a few more, and maybe another drum mag for my AK.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, Ian does a great job of finding really "wtf"firearms.

Could you, or any other dakka member recommend other good gun channels on youtube?

I have zero interest or knowledge in modern stuff, as I'm primarily interested in seeing the weapons from historic wargaming operate in real life

Muskets and stuff from WW1 is my main focus, with WW2 being a close second. If it was made after 1945, I'm not interested.

Forgotten weapons is obviously a first port of call, and Mr Hickok at Hickok45 does a great channel as well.

but are there any others out there?

Thanks.

Iraqveteran and Military Arms Channel are ones I regularly watch. They have modern stuff too, but also a decent amount of vintage military.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The gun fairy came and visited yesterday!

I will probably get some sort of magnified optic for it at some point, but need to do some more research. I'm *really* liking $3 magazines.

Stock up while you can. FAL mags used to be dirt cheap, now they're rarer than hen's teeth and have the price to match

That's the plan, picked up 16 mags in total already

 CptJake wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

On another note, I got home and found a package on my doorstep containg my shockingly expensive ($6 ) steel G3 mags. I can see why they went with the aluminums, the steel mags are easily 3x or more the weight...but damn are they built like a truck, these things are ~55 years old and damn near indestructible.

I have 20 or so and they are tough, built to last for darned sure.

Indeed, they're beastly

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, Ian does a great job of finding really "wtf"firearms.

Could you, or any other dakka member recommend other good gun channels on youtube?

I have zero interest or knowledge in modern stuff, as I'm primarily interested in seeing the weapons from historic wargaming operate in real life

Muskets and stuff from WW1 is my main focus, with WW2 being a close second. If it was made after 1945, I'm not interested.

Forgotten weapons is obviously a first port of call, and Mr Hickok at Hickok45 does a great channel as well.

but are there any others out there?

Thanks.

There's also "InRange" TV that Ian runs with his pal Karl that does a mix of modern and historical stuff. There's C&Rsenal that's also really amazing, they're doing gobs of WW1 stuff from .32acp pistols to anti-tank rifles and soon machineguns. Also as mentioned there's Iraqveteran8888 and Military Arms Channel that put out some good stuff, though they do lots of modern stuff, particularly the latter, and you'll get some US politics stuff from these guys occasionally.

 Ouze wrote:
This thread has gone a really long time, and mostly because we've stayed out of politics. That's a great rule and one I plan to stick to.

I mention this only because you mentioned stocking up on mags, and that's actually a really good idea. I don't know who the next POTUS will be, and I don't know what their agenda will be, but I do know even if he or she does nothing or nearly nothing on gun issues, there will still likely be a huge wave of panic buying. So, right now while the election is up in the air is probably a really good time to pick up things that might at some point wind up the target of future legislation, or at least at perceived targets, stuff like magazines in excess of 10 rounds, shotguns with pistol grips if you're in the market, M855 ammo, and so on.

I have a friend who now owns approx 40x 30 round magazines for his AR15 just in case. I don't think I'll go that far, but I'll probably pick up a few more, and maybe another drum mag for my AK.

Aye, I expect there to be a bloat in prices soon on lots of things. Hooray election cycles!

Hey, for you guys that have NFA trusts - I'm going in with a friend on one and I'm a little confused on the process. It seems like you need a serial number before you can create the trust, is that accurate? Or can you set up a trust and buy a suppressor later?

 Ouze wrote:
Hey, for you guys that have NFA trusts - I'm going in with a friend on one and I'm a little confused on the process. It seems like you need a serial number before you can create the trust, is that accurate? Or can you set up a trust and buy a suppressor later?

You can set up the trust and buy the suppressor later, but the trust has to be "funded", there have to be some sort of assets attached. Set aside a $1 bill somewhere safe, list it as an asset with its unique serial number, and once the suppressor comes you can add the suppressor to the trust and then take the dollar off and do whatever with it if you don't anticipate ever selling the suppressor.

If you're doing a form 1 as opposed to a form 4, for say, an SBR, you can add the item immediately to the Trust's assets. That's what I did with my Scorpion.

Thanks, that was exactly what I needed to know.

I recently made two new gun purchases: Mossberg MMR (AR-15 clone) and an HK93. Why would I buy two rifles that are both chambered in 5.56? They are each good in their own way.


The Mossberg MMR was an entry level AR. It has good accuracy, super cheap ($520 new on gunbroker), all ready has a grip that fits my huge hands, and comes standard with a free-float quad rail. Hey, it's an AR, so the sky is the limit on customizing it. I'm dropping in a Timney trigger and putting a 1-4 power scope on it in addition to a forward pistol grip. Magpul mags are plentiful and cheap (mothers day special was $10 for a 30 round mag, $15 for a 40 round mag.


The HK93 is a different beast all together. Expensive and heavy, but refined, rugged, and reliable. I'll admit it, this thing is a brick, weighing in at 8.5 pounds empty. Surplus aluminum 40- round mags from the 1970's are still $40 each (if you are lucky). New steel 30-round mags are $75. However, these mags are tough. Throw a little paint over the scratches in the surplus mags and I have no doubt they will give another 40 years of service. This thing will chew up any ammo you put through it, and is designed to handle steel case ammo. Customizing it appears tricky, but honestly, I didn't see much need. All I did was swap out the front sight for a fiber optic sight and replace the stock with a wireframe collapsible stock from an MP5 (yes, they are compatible). It's compact, good grip, and iron sights that just work well (and I'm usually not an iron sights fan). This thing has AK47 levels of reliability and little need to clean it (although I will).

Yeah, those HK rifles are all just real real beefy. Sadly the 93 mags are 20x the cost of the 91/G3 mags :(

I'd love to run an 93, my dad had one in the long long ago, but they're running about $4k now on Gunbroker..

 cuda1179 wrote:



The HK93 is a different beast all together. Customizing it appears tricky, but honestly, I didn't see much need. All I did was swap out the front sight for a fiber optic sight and replace the stock with a wireframe collapsible stock from an MP5 (yes, they are compatible). It's compact, good grip, and iron sights that just work well (and I'm usually not an iron sights fan). This thing has AK47 levels of reliability and little need to clean it (although I will).

You may be surprised at what is available to customize. I've gotten stuff for my HK91 and my HKMR556 here: https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-93-33-33K-53-c8.htm May not be as much stuff as there is for AR types, and what there is is not cheap, but there is quite a bit to be had if you want.

Thanks for the replies to my request for more channels on youtube.

Inrange TV looks a decent watch and had some interesting stuff, but military arms channel was a bit to modern for my liking. Iraqveteran had a good video about wheel lock muskets, so I'm happy with that.

C and Rsenal had some good WW1 stuff, so I'm happy with that as well.

But Hickok45 is still my favourite. A very dry and deadpan sense of humour, which is always a plus in my book.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Thanks for the replies to my request for more channels on youtube.

Inrange TV looks a decent watch and had some interesting stuff, but military arms channel was a bit to modern for my liking. Iraqveteran had a good video about wheel lock muskets, so I'm happy with that.

C and Rsenal had some good WW1 stuff, so I'm happy with that as well.

But Hickok45 is still my favourite. A very dry and deadpan sense of humour, which is always a plus in my book.

Vickers occasionally broke out World War II-era stuff for his show, if that's your focus, and I think he has a fair few clips up on YouTube. Dude has a serious thing for the Germans' late war assault rifle, as seen here.

I think his stuff's over-edited to hell and back, but it'd be tough to find a guy with more real-world experience doing gun shows.

Vickers has one about the grease gun that I just recently watched.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, those HK rifles are all just real real beefy. Sadly the 93 mags are 20x the cost of the 91/G3 mags :(

I'd love to run an 93, my dad had one in the long long ago, but they're running about $4k now on Gunbroker..

Well, not quite that bad. There are a couple companies out there that are making HK93 clones that are making these things downright affordable. Century arms has a clone that you can get for just $700. Their first production runs were pretty bad on quality control, but it appears that they have finally gotten their stuff together.

I can't find the name of the manufacturer now, but there is someone that makes a VERY high quality hk93 clone for about $2500. The options include and integral picatinny rail on the receiver, and they also have a version that accepts AR style magazines instead, which makes finding mags cheaper and easier.

Also, apparently MKE makes a reliable HK93 magazine in polymer for $35. Promag also makes mags too, but I wouldn't touch their stuff with a 10 foot pole.

One fine day I'll acquire one...

one fine day

On another topic, anyone have any good recommendations for ~4 power scopes to mount on that 308 PTR? I'm mostly clueless when it comes to magnified optics, mainly looking for something that'll work for 200-400m shots, can take some abuse, and is hopefully under $400, ideally in the $200-300 range.

I have a pretty nice 1-4 variable power scope I put on my Mini 30. Works quite well. I'll look at it in the morning and give you a model and manufacturer.

Dunno if it's been mentioned here because I didn't scroll back through to check, but if you've got a Gen 3 Glock 19 you're thinking about getting rid of, hold on to it for a few months. I have a feeling prices are gonna go up once the Navy officially announces the SEALs are switching out the Sigs for Gen 3 G19s.

For cheapish scopes, I have had good experience with Vortex.

I have a Vortex Viper 1-4 PST on my AR15, have shot it out to 600yds with good results.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-riflescope-with-tmcq-moa-reticle

 Slinky wrote:
For cheapish scopes, I have had good experience with Vortex.

I have a Vortex Viper 1-4 PST on my AR15, have shot it out to 600yds with good results.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-riflescope-with-tmcq-moa-reticle

Agree with Vortex, you won't get better glass for the price, and in fact you generally won't get much better if better at all for double their price. I'm picking up one of these to sit behind my Aimpoint:

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-vmx-3t-red-dot-magnifier

Have a buddy who shoots long distance (out to 1000 meters) and uses a Vortex scope, he loves it. They have a military/LE program that can save you a VERY nice amount too.

 CptJake wrote:
Agree with Vortex, you won't get better glass for the price, and in fact you generally won't get much better if better at all for double their price. I'm picking up one of these to sit behind my Aimpoint:

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-vmx-3t-red-dot-magnifier

I have one of those on my wish list.

I've been pretty impressed by Vortex; my dad, mom, and younger brother all have them on their AR's (I'm the only that doesn't because I have an EOTech 512).


I just bought a new lower today to start a new rifle. I haven't hammered out all of the details yet, but I'll figure it out as I go along.

Regarding NFA trusts, wouldn't it be easier to get a FFL?

 Breotan wrote:
Regarding NFA trusts, wouldn't it be easier to get a FFL?

From what I understand, getting an NFA trust is pretty straightforward (my brother and I are talking about setting one up with my dad). Also, the FFL is a different animal. You can't use it to buy a bunch of guns for personal use; it's solely for transferring firearms to other people (unless you get a Type 03 Collector of Curios and Relics license).

So, I have an "interesting" idea. I know someone that had a plan a while back. He purchased a number of parts kits, de-milled weapons, and replacement parts.

Sometimes when weapons get de-milled they don't quite do the job they are supposed to (there's always that one lazy, incompetent guy no matter where you work).

His original plan was to get enough pieces together to make a nice wall-hanger, non functional Viet Nam era grenade launcher. However, as we were looking at all the pieces (from about the equivalent of 6 parts kits) I am pretty sure we have enough pieces to make a FUNCTIONAL grenade launcher. This would look like the one used in Terminator 2.

Now, for legal purposes, he could either pay a $200 tax stamp, or modify the barrel go from 40mm diameter to 37mm. Oddly enough we found an adapter that can be welded in and not ruin the looks.

Bu what can we shoot with it? Well....real grenades are out of the question. That could easily run $300 per round. However, we have found non-explosive training rounds for sale. Bean bag rounds could also be fun. What I like the most is some "nest of bees" packs we found. Basically it's an insert. You can load it with 20 22-long rifle rounds and one trigger put fires them all at once. I was thinking of how fun it would be to load it with 22 shot shells. If you fire 20, 22LR shot shells it's basically a giant shotgun. Small birds and skeet look out.

I'm not sure the 'shot' in .22 shot shells will do the trick against skeet or birds at any distance. I shot a snake in the head at about 7-10 feet, took out an eye and pissed him off.

 CptJake wrote:
I'm not sure the 'shot' in .22 shot shells will do the trick against skeet or birds at any distance. I shot a snake in the head at about 7-10 feet, took out an eye and pissed him off.

Dang.... oh well, firing 20 hollow points might be fun. There are a bunch of Coyotes around.....

Yeah you should get a good look at the "shot" in a 22. It's so tiny I honestly think some of it is metal flake. It'd look cool on a paper target, that's about it