Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
FBI has now gone back to 9mm. Thinking one pistol round will stop an opponent is misplaced.

This. The big takeaway from the LA trauma surgeon's presentation - which I'm not digging up now but will upon request - is that caliber functionally doesn't matter.

The number one predictor of killing an assailant with a handgun is shot placement.

The number two predictor is number of rounds placed on target.

The idea that there is a "best" round for self defense is a fools errand, the idea there is a guaranteed one-shot-drop. The best self defense round is the one you like the most which means you will actually carry it and have it on you if needed, and it also means you will practice with it, getting proficient. I'd rather have a .32 that I've shot thousands of rounds with and know it like a part of my own body than some giant magnum round I have shot maybe a dozen times because it hurts my hand and is too bulky to carry.

I personally carry a Taurus 9mm subcompact with 12 rounds of Speer Gold Dot +P JHP's, unless it is the winter, in which case I carry my 1911 with Federal JHP's.

Some of us have known this for a long time.


Unfortunately, you can't tell that to the jello-junkies in the Fackler/Roberts cult.


They'll just stick their fingers in their ears, repeating the mantra of "TWELVE INCHES, TWELVE INCHES, TWELVE....."

My carry weapon is a 9mm. The sub-culture of 9mm sucks hails from all the naysayers about the 9mm Beretta and the limitations the military has forced on it with the full metal jacket round.

If you are using FMJ rounds for personal defence, well, you saying you deserve whats coming to you is a bit over the top, but there really is no sane reason you should be doing so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I'm starting to realize how much of a rich mans game this hobby is. I was just looking up the price for ballistics gel dummies, and I can buy a freaking Glock 19 for the price of a single torso...

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Gitzbitah wrote:

Anvildude wrote:
Well, I'm fairly certain a 1" bore blunderbuss would be a relatively guaranteed one-shot-drop.

Lol, would that still be a pistol?

Legally, blackpowder guns aren't even considered "firearms" in the US.

You can carry a concealed cap & ball revolver without a permit and own as many cannons as you want.

Of course, IANAL and all that...

Actually, rules vary by state on what you can leagally carry. The Fed does not consider ball and cap to be firearms, but they are weapons, and most states restrict what you can carry either open or concealed. Some states even refer to black powder weapons in their concealed carry laws.

Side note on penetration. A .44 army max loaded with black power, ( Don't remember how many grains, but about 5 less than the point where you have to shave the front of the bullet off to get the chamber to line up with the forcing cone. Don't try this at home. ) at 30 meters will not penetrate both sides of an empty laundry detergent bottle whose backside is resting against an earth berm. After penetrating one side the round ball pancakes out dramatically ( say about an inch in diameter ) on the soft earth supported side. .38 special, not +p, out of a snub nosed revolver did penetrate into the earth at the same range.

New range toy project. PSA 10.5" 5.56 barrel 1x7 nitride, PSA FA BCG, Anderson lower, Anderson Upper, 11" keymod FF handguard, pistol buffer tube, krinkov flash forwarder, DD front iron sights. Basically a parts bin pistol, looking at replacing rear sight with a matching DD rear sight. Eventually Id like to replace the barrel with a 300BLK, but twas hard to pass on the barrel deal (damn you PSA Daily Deals!). Trying to decide on enhanced trigger guard or standard, and which CMC trigger to drop in (curved or straight).

Cool stuff

PSA daily deals has done some bad things to my wallet too. It's hard to say no to a AR upper with a stainless barrel for $199.

You know, I might as well ask here.

I've wanted to build an AR10 for a long time. I know there is very little parts commonality,and that's OK, I can work with that. I'll just stick with the same manufacturer.

I finally dipped my toe into the water with a Aero Precision M5 .308 assembled upper, cerakoted in FDE, $150 shipped. I thought that was a great deal.

This was a huge mistake, it turns out. I bought that on March 1st. Since then, I not been able to buy a matching Aero Precision lower. They seem to never, ever been in stock either direct from AP or elsewhere. I added myself to back-in-stock notifications, and every time I get an email that they are in stock, they are gone by the time I get to a PC, sometimes in as little as 10 minutes.

Can any of you guys help me find a compatible lower? I have looked and looked and looked with no luck. The best I could ever find was a plastic stripped lower from some no-name vendor and I'm not quite that desperate yet.

I would think that any AR10 lower would work, though I'm not a gunsmith so don't take my word for it

That said, there are also other places that sell Aero Precision stuff, and often local shops, so you may want to check that angle.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I would think that any AR10 lower would work, though I'm not a gunsmith so don't take my word for it

Definitely 100% not true I'm afraid It's not as standardized the way AR15's are. The 2 big ones are DPS and Armalite, but there are others as well, none of which are compatible with each other for many parts.

Blocked at work but I think this is a good example, if the picture works:

I did try googling gun places online to find an AP M5 lowers but no one seems to have them.

 Ouze wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I would think that any AR10 lower would work, though I'm not a gunsmith so don't take my word for it

Definitely 100% not true I'm afraid It's not as standardized the way AR15's are. The 2 big ones are DPS and Armalite, but there are others as well, none of which are compatible with each other for many parts.

Blocked at work but I think this is a good example, if the picture works:

I did try googling gun places online to find an AP M5 lowers but no one seems to have them.

Ouze:

Ill check with my distributors tonight, see if any are in stock. Just remember, that part is considered the firearm, so I'll have to do an FFL to FFL transfer. We'll have to be quick about it, parts are beginning to dry up. Also, my dist. are all East Coast based, so shipping will be involved too, what's your AO? PM if interested.

Space

I have also felt the urge to dip into the .308 category. My tastes are a little different though. I just bought an HK91. It's hard to resist a rifle where you can buy very good condition, but used, steel or aluminum mags for $2.

I've had my HK-91 since about 1993. First rifle I bought. Still one of my favorites. Of course, since then I've realized I may just REALLY like 'black guns'.

I picked up my PTR91/HK91-clone back in May, and that thing is a beast of a gun but lots of fun.


I didnt realize AR10 receivers were so wonky...

Hk91's are pretty heavy, but then again so am I, so who am I to judge?

I find it quite ironic that it is basically the same weapon as my hk93, but in a larger caliber, but the magazine prices are polar opposites. Used 91 mag, $2. Used 93 mag, $40. New 91 mag, $25. New 93 mag, $90. I know, I know, supply and demand, but still.

While I still like the AR-15 platform for what it is, for some reason I have this affinity for early 80's rifles. Especially the ones that are built tough and are reliable.


As a side note, I have a ton of 20 round mags for my hk91. Are 30 or 40 round mags, or even the 50 round drum, at all necessary? Or is 20 rounds of .308 enough to repel anything short of a SWAT team?

20 rounds was standard for Spanish and German army use. The German Navy used 50 round drums when they used G3's as deck guns on mounts.

More ammo is great, but G3's make really poor bullet hoses, 20 rounds os typically more than fine on those.

20 round magazines for the HK91 are heavy enough (heavier than a 30 round magazine for an AR type rifle in 5.56), 30 round magazines make the gun a lot heavier. They may also be long enough to make firing prone a bit of a bitch (but I've not tried so I could be wrong).

 CptJake wrote:
I've had my HK-91 since about 1993. First rifle I bought. Still one of my favorites. Of course, since then I've realized I may just REALLY like 'black guns'.

That's a nice start to a collection Jake

Sadly, my stable was tragically lost on a fishing trip at Lake Superior.

Yeah, that picture was taken before the recent Hurricane Matty flooding where a tragic kayaking accident meant I've lost my collection as well.

 CptJake wrote:
Yeah, that picture was taken before the recent Hurricane Matty flooding where a tragic kayaking accident meant I've lost my collection as well.

Is that a Mossy 500 in the middle? What stock? I made the mistake of getting the 500 JIC II and without a stock, you can only reliably shoot it from the hip. Got a killer deal on it which was how I got it.

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Yeah, that picture was taken before the recent Hurricane Matty flooding where a tragic kayaking accident meant I've lost my collection as well.

Is that a Mossy 500 in the middle? What stock? I made the mistake of getting the 500 JIC II and without a stock, you can only reliably shoot it from the hip. Got a killer deal on it which was how I got it.

If you want a stock it definitely makes the gun easier to control. My pistol-grip only shotgun was a "5 rounds and I'm done for the day" kind of gun. HOWEVER, there is another option. I put a Witt Machine muzzle brake on my shotgun and switched the pistol grip out for a bird's-head pistol grip from Shockwave Technology. It makes shooting a pistol-grip shotgun SO much easier. I swear with those two things bolted on it almost feels like shooting a 20 gauge or less. I'd say it easily reduced recoil 60%, probably more.

 Spacemanvic wrote:

Is that a Mossy 500 in the middle? What stock? I made the mistake of getting the 500 JIC II and without a stock, you can only reliably shoot it from the hip. Got a killer deal on it which was how I got it.

 CptJake wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

Is that a Mossy 500 in the middle? What stock? I made the mistake of getting the 500 JIC II and without a stock, you can only reliably shoot it from the hip. Got a killer deal on it which was how I got it.

It is the stock stock.

http://www.mossberg.com/product/500-tactical-adjustable-stock-50420/



Wife picked this gun out. She loves it. Our daughter has been firing it for a couple of years too.

This is me goofing around with it:

Whats the shell count on that? I think I have wood furniture of that puppy. 5+1 in the pipe?

If so I loves it. Its a natural shooter.

I was purposely not leaning to show Daughter what the recoil was like when firing quickly, like I said, goofing.

Yep, 5+1.

Excellent. This is my cheap-ass bubba version.
http://www.mossberg.com/product/500-combo-fieldsecurity-54169/

I like your spares rack on the side. Do you have stock or did you put a recoil pad on it?

Stock, just as bought.

That must kick a bit with the lower weight then.

It isn't too bad if you pull it in tight, as you can see from the gif above.

Ok, friendly people of Dakka. Next year I am only allowing myself to buy one gun... I am having trouble deciding between 2 pistols and 1 rifle. My three choices are all sigs, X Five Entry, Sig Legion P226, or a 556XI. I already have piles of 9mms and piles of 223/556s but I really want all three of these.

 Ruberu wrote:
Ok, friendly people of Dakka. Next year I am only allowing myself to buy one gun... I am having trouble deciding between 2 pistols and 1 rifle. My three choices are all sigs, X Five Entry, Sig Legion P226, or a 556XI. I already have piles of 9mms and piles of 223/556s but I really want all three of these.

I would pass on the 556XI, not because it is inherently a bad gun, but because there's been lots of reviews and reports of poor quality control and reliability. The Legion is nice, but you pay a *lot* for cool factor for a P226, though it does have a lot of it. I don't know much about the X5.