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 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ruberu wrote:
Ok, friendly people of Dakka. Next year I am only allowing myself to buy one gun... I am having trouble deciding between 2 pistols and 1 rifle. My three choices are all sigs, X Five Entry, Sig Legion P226, or a 556XI. I already have piles of 9mms and piles of 223/556s but I really want all three of these.

I would pass on the 556XI, not because it is inherently a bad gun, but because there's been lots of reviews and reports of poor quality control and reliability. The Legion is nice, but you pay a *lot* for cool factor for a P226, though it does have a lot of it. I don't know much about the X5.

I have read a lot of bad things about the Sig 556xi Russian but not on the 556 version. If I buy the xi it will mainly be a range toy and a suppressor host. I already have two Steyr Augs, one HK 33, and three AR-15s so the xi won't be a "SHTF" gun, as much as it will be a beat around gun. I agree with you completely on the Legion, but I'm kinda a Sig nerd so the extras intrigue me. I'm also considering a P226 Enhanced Elite instead of the Legion. The X5 is purely a "cool" factor, and competition pistol for me. It's a P226 that is completely hand made, hand fitted in Germany. They are SAO and the 5 in the name means they have a 5" barrel. They are a nice competition sig, which would be fun for when and if I get back into IPSC, or steel matches.

This is my problem, I kinda have an excuse for all of them

If you think about the Legion do you want a safe queen or EDC?

Whichever P226 I end up buying will be in a weird place... it won't be an EDC because I have my P228 for that, but it won't be a safe queen. I take a lot of shooting and tactics courses with our local Sheriffs department SWAT team, so I want a good full sized Sig for the training. I want to stick with Sig because out of all my guns the Sigs feel the most natural in my hands.

Well, all the build up for the new Springfield Armory Saint ended up being a bit anticlimactic... The way they were keeping it quiet and building it up with the ads made me exspect a new modular rifle to compete with the ACR, MPX, or 556xi (well... you know... if those companies ever actually come out with the kits they claim they are going to to actually make them modular...). Or maybe (wishful thinking) another bullpup to compete with Steyr, IWI, and Keltec. Or maybe even making something original and making their own unique rifle like Sig did with the 556, IWI and the Galil, FN Scar, or Armalite AR-180. But no... they made an AR.

First look at SAs new Ar, I gotta say I was disappointed. I do see good things such as it got puked on by BCM, it has NiB trigger group, and some fancy laser engraves all for a low MSRP of $899. It's not a terrible price for a starter AR-15 with actual quality furniture. But it's just another AR, and it really doesn't bring anything new to the table that Windham, Smith, BCM, Stag, Spikes, Colt, PSA, or Bushmaster already hasn't. It comes with a cool case though? I can't help but think with all the BCM furniture on it if it really is a SA, or if it's just a low budget BCM sold by SA. So far I am unimpressed and the Saint is an ain't in my book. So many missed opportunities from a company with the resources to make something new.

This is just my opinion, and opinions are kinda like certain body parts people have that all stink equally. Well... some may be worse than others...

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ruberu wrote:
Ok, friendly people of Dakka. Next year I am only allowing myself to buy one gun... I am having trouble deciding between 2 pistols and 1 rifle. My three choices are all sigs, X Five Entry, Sig Legion P226, or a 556XI. I already have piles of 9mms and piles of 223/556s but I really want all three of these.

I would pass on the 556XI, not because it is inherently a bad gun, but because there's been lots of reviews and reports of poor quality control and reliability. The Legion is nice, but you pay a *lot* for cool factor for a P226, though it does have a lot of it. I don't know much about the X5.

The X5 is an awesome bang stick, and visually beautiful. Its very accurate and you can drop multi taps with great speed. It is heavy though and will slow up your transitions.

However, it is very pricey?

I am not a fan of the Legion at all. They took a good 226 and tacticooled it for shopping mall operators. better to get a stock 226 and tune the trigger and sights to personal taste.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ruberu wrote:
Whichever P226 I end up buying will be in a weird place... it won't be an EDC because I have my P228 for that, but it won't be a safe queen. I take a lot of shooting and tactics courses with our local Sheriffs department SWAT team, so I want a good full sized Sig for the training. I want to stick with Sig because out of all my guns the Sigs feel the most natural in my hands.

Also most X5 types are SAO whereas 226s are typically DA/SA. Thats a significant difference. Which platform do you prefer?

First off, I'm beginning to have the same feel about the Legions as you do. They took a perfectly good pistol that was made in the 80's, gave it a supposedly crappy finish that rubs off, and then puked tacticool all over it. This is why I'm kinda leaning towards the 226 extreme.

As for DA/SA or SAO I really don't have a preference. I have a lot more experience with DA/SA from my other Sigs, my CZs, HK, and Berettas. My only experiences with SAO are from my Browning Hi Power and my 1911, and of course my Uberti SA Armies, but that's a different beast lol. To date with tens of thousands of 9mm shot I have never needed the double action on any of my handguns. And more often then not I tend to pull the hammer back on my DAs when I draw so I never really fire from DA.

I really have been enjoying shooting my Browning lately, so I'm half tempted to get the X5 to change things up. Most of what I'm going to be using this pistol for is possibly competition shooting and the occasional pistol training courses. My original want for a DA/SA is so I don't mess myself up considering my EDC is a Sig P228.

Edit add: The only problem I have with the X5 is that I would like to suppress the pistol. I can buy a barrel for the regular P226 but I Sig doesn't make a barrel for the X5. This is my dilemma, regular 226 and suppressor or X5 and cool points lol.

Ok:
1. What type of competition? accuracy shooting or run and gun (or in my case waddle and shoot).

2. If you're firm on liking the suppressor and can get the required gov'ment approval then that is a factor.

The X fives are more accuracy oriented. However, you can tweek up a 226 to be as good as a an X 5 tactical (sights, trigger, and put a damn Bar Sto smith fitted barrel on it thats threaded).
https://www.barsto.com/category_main.cfm?ID=226&cco=66

I'd put a fitted Bar-Sto up against any barrel in the business including Sig itself.

(makes me want one myself).

Most of the competitions I'll be running are IPSC, so mostly accuracy and some speed. A natural pointing handgun is all I need for this, which all Sigs are for me. I may be running some three gun matches as well, they will require speed and being able to holster the side arm. Steel matches are pure accuracy competitions which is where the X5 would shine with its custom fit and 5" barrel. The training courses are a mixture of handgun and rifle training. Lots of transition drills, shooting from cover, moving and shooting, long range shooting, extremely close range shooting, and shooting while wounded. (We are not actually wounded for that last part. We usually strap a tourniquet on one of our appendages and move around for awhile and then engage threats if we need to.)

I think you might have sold me on a regular P226 with that Bar-sto barrel. I'm pretty sure this will give me a perfect, well rounded pistol that I can use for competition and every day use. I already have suppressors so I just needed something other than my rifles and Glock 19 to put them on.

Thanks for your help Frazzled! Sometimes all I need to do is bounce ideas off of people that aren't my normal circle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I made up my mind, I've decided to go with the P226 X-Five Tactical. Bar-Sto makes a threaded barrel for the Sig X5 series and they will do the required fitting for me, with an additional cost of course.

Thanks again Frazzled for pointing out Bar-Sto, I completely forgot about them.

a glock that serves as my home defense, a shot gun thats a collectors (Old one that got ordered outta a sears catalog back in the day) an AR 15 for property defense(live out in the desert, and we have coyotes) and a PTR 91, because if gak hits the fan, i dont wanna bitch around with 5.56, .308 or bust.

So, I want a "stupid" gun. I would like to have something reminiscent of the shotgun used in Mad Max/ The Road Warrior. Namely, a sawed-off double barrel pistol grip shotgun. While a 12-gauge would be cool, I have a feeling it might be a little harsh on the hands. I'm looking for a .410 shotgun that isn't too expensive that I can modify.

Also might consider a 20 gauge. I've not seen a side by side .410.

 cuda1179 wrote:
So, I want a "stupid" gun. I would like to have something reminiscent of the shotgun used in Mad Max/ The Road Warrior. Namely, a sawed-off double barrel pistol grip shotgun. While a 12-gauge would be cool, I have a feeling it might be a little harsh on the hands. I'm looking for a .410 shotgun that isn't too expensive that I can modify.

'Sawed off' may cause you some legal troubles...

 CptJake wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
So, I want a "stupid" gun. I would like to have something reminiscent of the shotgun used in Mad Max/ The Road Warrior. Namely, a sawed-off double barrel pistol grip shotgun. While a 12-gauge would be cool, I have a feeling it might be a little harsh on the hands. I'm looking for a .410 shotgun that isn't too expensive that I can modify.

'Sawed off' may cause you some legal troubles...

Not if I get the proper paperwork first. Or, alternatively, if I can fine an unassembled receiver I can make it a "pistol" and not have to abide by the minimal barrel length laws. I just have to keep it over 26 inches overall length.

I don't think you will find a 'receiver' for a double barreled pistol grip shotgun. I could be wrong.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/596154414

Okay, I know that this is the biggest piece of pot metal crap you can buy, but this general idea is what I'm going for.

 CptJake wrote:
I don't think you will find a 'receiver' for a double barreled pistol grip shotgun. I could be wrong.

Wait wait wait, we're barking up the wrong tree
This concept is a century older than Mad Max, and was a staple for African rich white guys killing mammals.

Just get a Howdah pistol
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Howdah-Hunter-Ga-Pistol/740261.uts

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_29/pistols-howdah-hunter.html

Yea Baby Yea!

Troy wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
I don't think you will find a 'receiver' for a double barreled pistol grip shotgun. I could be wrong.

Wait wait wait, we're barking up the wrong tree
This concept is a century older than Mad Max, and was a staple for African rich white guys killing mammals.

Just get a Howdah pistol
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Howdah-Hunter-Ga-Pistol/740261.uts

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_29/pistols-howdah-hunter.html

Yea Baby Yea!

Those things are pretty neat, but I'd rather not have to deal with black powder.

Have you ever shot black powder? Its awesome.

 Frazzled wrote:
Have you ever shot black powder? Its awesome.

Until you have to clean up the mess

 Slinky wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Have you ever shot black powder? Its awesome.

Until you have to clean up the mess

Not that much of a mess. Just use a toothbrush.

Yeah, but it needs to be done same day, really, so you need to make time after your range trip for cleaning.

This is true.

Anybody hoping that the Hearing Protection Act will gain traction with the incoming administration and be passed? I'd love to be able to go to the range and shoot more comfortably. Would love to shoot my AR pistol without all "BLAM".

What does this mean for you?

No $200 tax stamp
No excessive wait times
No NFA trusts
No fingerprint cards, passport photos, or Chief Law Enforcement Officer notification
A simple process, just like when you purchase most firearms through your dealer

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/11/2016-presidential-election-hearing-protection-act/

Yeah, I'm hoping for that, and a return to cheaper and readily available ammo in all calibers.

It'd be nice, but I'll be shocked if it goes anywhere. We can hope though.

 Vaktathi wrote:
It'd be nice, but I'll be shocked if it goes anywhere. We can hope though.

I think there is enough call for its removal from NFA, as well as it's not a firearm, and NOT a killing device like the movies try to portray. It makes shooting more pleasant, safer (tinnitus and assists in accuracy), and when hunting, wont scare game away.

It's full of WIN!!

Fun fact: it was added to the NFA because of poaching. Starving families during the Great Depression supplemented their meals with game (and the occasional livestock). Ranchers and farmers pushed hard to get silencers added to the NFA of 1934.

Another fun fact:

Silencers are only illegal in 8 repressive, archaic and backward states:

Dude, thats great timing. I was waiting on the election to bother with building an AR. .300 BLK here we go.

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:
Dude, thats great timing. I was waiting on the election to bother with building an AR. .300 BLK here we go.

Yessir! Im swapping out a 16" 5.56 barrel for a 300BO for a middy build for hopefully next years hunting season. PA has passed semi hunting, still awaiting Wolfe's signature, then the game commissioners regs.

I would love to see suppressors get off the NFA, ive been holding off getting an Osprey for my Scorpion until the stamp wait is under 6 months, but I'm just not optimistic itll ever happen

Really Id like to see the NFA gone entirely, or at least just limit it to MG's and DD's (and remove the hughes amendment), just judging on history though it doesnt seem like anyone is ever willing to touch the NFA.

Here's a way to help make it happen:

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/11/2016-presidential-election-hearing-protection-act/

#FIGHTTHENOISE


Fight the Noise is a movement to regain our Voice. To exercise our right to protect our hearing and silence the sound. To be responsible gun owners and be treated as such. We want law­abiding citizens to have the ability to purchase and own silencers without being subjected to excessive wait times, paperwork, and taxes. We are the silent majority, and it is our time to be heard. We are your Friends. We are your Coworkers. We are The Suppressed™.

Speak up for your right to silence. By joining the Fight the Noise movement, you are loudly stating that The Suppressed have had enough. So how do you show your support? Click on the links below; write your elected officials encouraging them to support the Hearing Protection Act, and join our grassroots movement becoming a member of The Suppressed. Remember, when The Suppressed stand together, our voice will be heard.

http://www.fightthenoise.org/