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@ Cergorach, you are talking c..p again.

Have you ran any successful KS project? Because you sound like you been there and you got t-shirt...

Compare WZR KS to this:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wildwestexodus/wild-west-exodus-sci-fi-western-miniatures-game.

1. Prodos is working with fans on design, rules.. they don't. The Prodos response is just fantastic!
2. Prodos has more renders of models/ minis to show that them. They constantly pumping out pictures of models or wips...
3. Prodos once hit stretch goal, the "green light is on" for new models/renders!, they show you WIP and as you for your opinion. They don't. The WWX says : "All second wave models, stretch goals and unlocked items will fall into the work flow schedule just days after the campaign successfully funds" ... SO who is more proactive.

IN FACT SHOW ME ONE, JUST ONE MINIATURE KS WHERE YOU HAD WIPS AND YOU COULD PUT YOUR 2 CENTS TO DESIGN TEAM.

4. Also Prodos answer about new renders (from KS page):

"Prodos: Correct me if I am wrong, but Kickstarter is meant to allow a company to 'kickstart' their project, if we had it all up front, why would we and more importantly ethically should we use kickstarter. Surely if we could do it already, why do we need or use Kickstarter. I personally (mark) feel that the concept of Kickstarter has mutated in recent months, we at Prodos want to use it as it was designed. It may cost us some investment, but our approach to our company and the position it fits in the market has to have an ethically right position (we are not a company, for example, that wants to steal business from the big boys, why, equally should we cheat you the customer or the concept of Kickstarter, by using it as a pre-order service. That is not the nature of KS). As such when we hit the stretched goals we will invest in the projects they release."
5. They managed to get to £50k in a week! If you can better send them your CV.
6. And if you such a big fan of Warzone go to their Facebook and post your worries there instead trolling here and scaring off peoples interested in Mutant Chronicles and Warzone - potential Warzne Gamers.. you are not helping with your BS.

brynolf wrote:

Bubbalicious wrote:
I wonder how big the alternate Everasseur is going to be?

This. I want to see size comparisons of all the stuff actually.

there is:



I wonder how big the alternate Everasseur is going to be

40mm

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

brynolf wrote:

Bubbalicious wrote:
I wonder how big the alternate Everasseur is going to be?

This. I want to see size comparisons of all the stuff actually.

there is:



I wonder how big the alternate Everasseur is going to be

40mm

Yes, I've seen that. Still would like to see more of different models.

 rob_alderman wrote:
Here's the alternate 'Everasseur'.

Ooh, that thing's awesome. I like the helmet re-design. Looks like it's going to be fun to paint up.

I had completely forgotten that Étoiles were supposed to be Art capable, hence their grouping in such an elite formation.

It's been a while, but I'm guessing that many Art-capable males must have been whisked away by the Brotherhood, from across many megacorps?

That new Everasseur is gorgeous. Can't wait to get to add another corp though.

If they succeed as well as Kicktraq loosely predicts, even the lower expectations (around 200K£) they might introduce another faction. Rather than further flesh out the existing ones. I think it would make sense and represent less of a cliff for future releases to catch up to the existing factions.

I dont think they will introduce another faction more then Capitol, not for release in June anyways.
May be to much work and to little time for the resources at their disposal to have it all finished in sufficient quantity by release if you ad another faction in there.

The official stance is to wait with Imperial and Mishima until... well, probably christmas at the earliest. That's not to say that they won't change their minds if we throw millions of £ at them during the KS though...

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I had completely forgotten that Étoiles were supposed to be Art capable, hence their grouping in such an elite formation.

It's been a while, but I'm guessing that many Art-capable males must have been whisked away by the Brotherhood, from across many megacorps?

That new Everasseur is gorgeous. Can't wait to get to add another corp though.

If they succeed as well as Kicktraq loosely predicts, even the lower expectations (around 200K£) they might introduce another faction. Rather than further flesh out the existing ones. I think it would make sense and represent less of a cliff for future releases to catch up to the existing factions.

Yeah, the Etoile are unique in that they are an art-capable unit that isn't part of the Brotherhood. This is because, before Cybertronic enters the picture and causes Bauhaus some inner-turmoil, Bauhaus was basically the favourite corporation of the Brotherhood (the Cardinal is a Bauhauser as I recall, and Bauhaus as a faction, are quite devout). One of the perks of being a favourite were actually allowing art-users to be trained outside the Brotherhood.

So while many young initiates were still whisked away by the Brotherhood, the Etoile Mortant were an elite few that passed the rigorous standards of being in the Bauhaus special forces and being art-capable. They are a neat unit, all told, and I think it would be more logical for them to be co-ed given the unit's history. But either way, they will make for some great head-swap opportunities with the rest of the line even if they end up being all female. Though if they make them co-ed, I kind of hope they do the same for other units in the megacorps. A can at least see why they didn't go that route with Chasseurs (would have been hard to do it without making a topless pin-up model cyborg lady), but with things like Hussars and other, more conventional infantry, a simple head-swap would be perfect. But I have a feeling the all-female thing is pretty engrained in them now, so I'm not putting all my hopes in the co-ed EM basket.

As for Kicktraq's prediction, I don't know if we have stable enough numbers to know how accurate that's going to be yet. Yesterday seems like we may finally be starting to see the lower bounds (though I am certain some days will see far less than even £300). But it could also be slowdown in anticipation of the beta rules. There is also the little thing that it may also be lower than expected since they lost a backer who was allegedly in for £300. Too many variables and not enough data points yet. I am quite surprised it has managed so long with £2000-4000 days and that it knocked down so many initial stretch goals so early. We'll see what next week brings and how the flow of it goes.

But my current expectations are that it probably wont have to many more days at the £1000+ mark from now until the final week. One of the things about 60-day kickstarters is that their cycles can sometimes be quite exaggerated and that during the middle, the more spread out timeframe can make them utterly crawl. This is why it is so important for them to have a good start (which Prodos had) so that instead of crawling toward actually funding, they are crawling toward whatever highly anticipated stretch goal is up next (my guess is everyone is probably hoping for Capitol).

So as of right now, I think Kicktraq is still predicting on the high side and we wont have a better idea until the end of week 2. My prediction is that it will probably end in and around the £80k to £150k mark (with a possible allowance for a £200k if the end-run starts to get crazy). I think it is a pretty sure thing that we will end up seeing Capitol get funded, but whether we hit £100k or not is a little fuzzy. But 60-day KS's are really hard to predict because they go on so long and can have unpredictable doldrums and out of nowhere windfalls. But I think the initial push is finally calming down and it will settle in to a mild rhythm until the end is in sight. Then it is the normal craziness of almost every Kickstarter ever.

The best we can do now is pimp it out to all that we can tell. One of my gaming buddies who is moving back to town this summer is already in on the Brotherhood (maybe I'll give him my Arch Primates?) though my other WZ-playing friend in town is an Imperial/Cresentian player so he may be a bit of a hard sell unless he likes the look of Capitol or decides to start up Dark Legion (he does have a Chaos army... that may work).

OK, this page's dumb question: When are the products pledged for actually going to be released? Couldn't find it anywhere on the page..

It should say under the pledge reward levels on the right when they will be available. And they all say "Estimated delivery: Jun 2013"

 Pacific wrote:
OK, this page's dumb question: When are the products pledged for actually going to be released? Couldn't find it anywhere on the page..

Their delivery date is listed as June 2013. But keep in mind that this is always a best guess when running a Kickstarter. As stretch goals open up, the project becomes more complex which may stretch the timeline a bit. June 2013 is basically assuming that the project only makes the required £35k and that all they really need to do is get the core for Bauhaus designed (plus some extra time on top, just in case). But I can see the initial release getting pushed back a few months if we manage to hit the goal for plastic core kits and the like, because they would need to re-tool the designs a bit and also wait on whoever is doing their plastic casting. Same goes for if they reach the level where they throw in Capitol.

With the way this thing is going June is probably stretching it a bit. But for all I know they are organizational/planning masters and will still get it done by then. But if this thing continues to do well, I expect a few months of delays. But I'm okay with that, I waited nearly a decade for it already after all.

 god.ra wrote:

Cergorach wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Yeah, those are definitely Renedra; basically the same company that did GW's plastics until GW bought their own equipment several years back.

Hahahah!!!

No! Absolutely no! Renedra is run by ex-GW employees, Renedra has never produced anything for GW, and GW has had their plastic manufacturing in house for a long, long time. Far, far longer then a couple of years. Renedra would simply never had the capacity to produce the number of sprues/molds GW required, even in the early days of GW. I would estimate that GW has done their plastics in house for two decades, maybe even longer.

.

Man, again check your "source data" ... as you talking c..p

Go to Renedra Website and click on HISTORY.

qoute : "...10 years later in 1985 I started my own Toolmaking business in Wisbech and one of my first customers was Games Workshop who were in their early stages of Plastic miniatures. In 1998 GW bought out my business and I continued working for them until I took retirement in February 2007."

Yeah, I posted this and more info several posts ago but was quickly ignored

It's well known that GW didn't do their own plastics in-house for a very long time, Terry Ardener tooled and produced their plastics. GW announced in WD when they bought Terry's company - as an investment, as the manufacturing facilities stayed where they were and none of the staff changed, the company just became owned by GW - and he stayed on as head of their plastics division, until he retired and started Renedra in 2007. Why did he retire? Because GW mothballed the pantograph machines and bought all new tooling equipment (slide-core and CAD, etc). So when I said it's "basically" the same company, it is. The same guy who started and ran all of GW's plastics for 20 years owns and operates Renedra. So, technically, the company "Renedra" did not make GW figs, but the guy who ran GW's plastics for 20 years did make GW figs, and he owns and operates Renedra.

So let me officially admit my mistake and amend my statement from
"Yeah, those are definitely Renedra; basically the same company that did GW's plastics until GW bought their own equipment several years back."
to
"Yeah, those are definitely Renedra; basically the same guy that did GW's plastics for 20 years until GW bought newer equipment in 2007."

Maybe I'm dumb, but why does every kickstarter have to make hundreds of thousands of dollars to be considered successful?

I would be very confused if I were a creator of one of these Kick-started games, and was told by a potential customer that they weren't going to support my project because it didn't make enough money... Even though it made more than I expected.

@those suggesting they can buy/use the old Warzone minis, Go for it! Dig up some monopose Citadel minis for your GW games while you are at it.

I am all for new concepts and new models.
The abilities of miniature sculptors have moved forward greatly in the past 20+ years I have been playing games.
I play based on the rules working for me, and the models looking good to me.
The old Warzone minis always came across as a parody/lampoon of the GW style at the time.
The universe was interesting, and the rules were neat. But the models...

This looks like an interesting project, and if I weren't playing Warmachine/Hordes/Malifaux/Dystopian Legions/Infinity right now it could snag me. The new concepts have the old-school feel with a current technique/aesthetic.
I hope they finish out the KS with a strong stable of launch products. If they catch my eye well enough on the store shelves, I'll end up having some.

 skrulnik wrote:
Maybe I'm dumb, but why does every kickstarter have to make hundreds of thousands of dollars to be considered successful?

I would be very confused if I were a creator of one of these Kick-started games, and was told by a potential customer that they weren't going to support my project because it didn't make enough money... Even though it made more than I expected.

People like free stuff?

Though stretch goals can backfire if some pledger are banking on it and it doesnt come to pass (the recent Goblin KS for instance), though those seem to be rare


Perhaps in the case of Warzone, whatever locked faction could be a barrier if people who are only interested in that faction are waiting

I finally went ahead and pledged at Cartel lvl, why because unlike some of the people complaining about the KS for me in Japan the chances of getting the stuff at the not very friendly-totally not local-GS are close to nill. Now I have more than enough options to get two or three factions to spread the love of the game here.

I can understand someone not pledging because they want to support the game at their FLGS but jezz! complaining about S&H? Welcome to what some of us usually have to pay when we order stuff online.

M.

I would be very confused if I were a creator of one of these Kick-started games, and was told by a potential customer that they weren't going to support my project because it didn't make enough money... Even though it made more than I expected.

I don't think anyone is saying that. I think people are saying that the reason it's not making more money is because people are not backing it, because many people don't see the value. "Where is the Weenie?"

Right now the project is funded, and it's doing ok, there is lots of time left. The issue is that honestly for a lot of people there is little incentive to fund the project. People can throw around all the altruistic reasons that they want, and claim that you should fund the project so that you can see it succeed. That's great and all, but it's just not enough for many people.

I've pledged only for the rules so far. The Vulkan looks kind of tempting.....but besides that, I'm not really impressed with the miniatures and I think the pricing (for miniatures that I'm not really impressed with) is pretty absurd, especially for a kickstarter. They want us to pledge in advance for very average miniatures, for a game we have no real idea about, and one that has folded repeatedly.

This is what you would call risk and reward time. I just don't see a reward worth the risk, and I don't see Protos risking anything either. There is very little discount and in the case of US backers, we may well end up paying more for them now, then we would later.

Again, it obviously isn't failing, but I think it could do better.

Even if they stay in resin though... they look pretty good for that medium.

A friend of mine has been tapped to paint store copies of Dystopian Legions and he says those are really, really bad...

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Even if they stay in resin though... they look pretty good for that medium.

A friend of mine has been tapped to paint store copies of Dystopian Legions and he says those are really, really bad...

Resin is a hard sell for a lot of people, especially new gamers. But even barring that, just looking at the miniatures, the detail is nice, actually it looks very nice, but the poses are very bland and I get the feeling that if you have more than one box you are going to be repeating. Yes, I know there are lots and lots of combinations, but those combinations don't seam to change the pose much. The undead legionnaires all basically in the same boring non action pose, the chasseurs are all pretty much in the same boring non action pose, the brotherhood troopers are at least doing something....not sure what though.

Of all the miniatures we have seen, there are maybe 4 that are even in a shooting position or aggressive pose? Everybody is just kind of standing around.

The strength of monopose miniatures is that you usually get a very evocative pose, many times something you can't get with multi pose kits. The advantage of mulitpose miniatures is you can get a variety of poses so your minis don't all look the same. These are somewhere in the middle, where you get limited, boring poses.

Now it could be that they started with organic models, undead legionaries and chasseurs. Making flesh and muscles multipose is much harder than on armored men. Even then, the current poses, or at least what they have shown of them are very milquetoast. I'm hoping to be proven wrong.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
and one that has folded repeatedly.

And the reasons for that have been given: it didn't fail because of the quality of the game, it apparently failed for reasons not even related to it. If you believe what's been said then the game was actually pretty successful, and popular enough for GW to actually decrease prices to try and compete with it, and was at the height of its popularity when the company went under.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
and one that has folded repeatedly.

And the reasons for that have been given: it didn't fail because of the quality of the game, it apparently failed for reasons not even related to it. If you believe what's been said then the game was actually pretty successful, and popular enough for GW to actually decrease prices to try and compete with it, and was at the height of its popularity when the company went under.

It's failed more than once, it just has a bad track record.

There is also more than one reason the game failed.
One of the reasons it failed was inconsistent miniatures that ranged from superb to down right goofy.
1st edition the rules were not solid, too easy to exploit, terrible close combat rules. The game was unfun unless you house rulled the hell out of it.....but then it was great!
2nd edition again, the rules
UWZ, Rules were good, army building was funky, no ability to really put out a real product.
The less said about the fantasy flight game the better.
I never played the doomtrooper card game.....anybody know if that was any good?

Now I don't know if good miniatures or better rules would have saved it from the financial crash of its parent company, but a track record is a track record. What do we even know about protos?

Well its obviously clear what Andrew1975 is hoping for with his continuous negativity!

For those of you that want this to succeed we have just reached the 150% of target pledge. As a thankyou something extra is coming very soon!

(BTW Prodos see 150% of target in less than 10 days as a big success). We already have Bauhaus, new characters, new dice and new units. And lots more to come!

I should think, by definition, reaching the goal amount means success for the kickstarter at least, and that anything beyond that is...well, bigger success.

Of course, that doesn't mean the game itself will automagically be successful, too, but so far I quite like the minis, I'm interested in the card bit after watching the video, and... well, we'll just have to wait to see the rules.

Prodos wrote:
Well its obviously clear what Andrew1975 is hoping for with his continuous negativity!

For those of you that want this to suceed we have just reached the 150% of target pledge. As a thankyou something extra is coming very soon!

(BTW Prodos see 150% of target in les than 10 days as a big success). We already have Bauhaus, new characters, new dice and new units. And lots more to come!

Haha, touche and snap! I'm in at 249.

 RatBot wrote:
I should think, by definition, reaching the goal amount means success for the kickstarter at least, and that anything beyond that is...well, bigger success.

Of course, that doesn't mean the game itself will automagically be successful, too, but so far I quite like the minis, I'm interested in the card bit after watching the video, and... well, we'll just have to wait to see the rules.

Agreed! Completely!

Andrew1975 wrote:
Of all the miniatures we have seen, there are maybe 4 that are even in a shooting position or aggressive pose? Everybody is just kind of standing around.

It's a matter of taste of course but I personally think it's boring if all miniatures would have shooting or aggressive poses (which would make every miniature look kind of the same). I believe Prodos at large have done a great job at catching the character of the minis with their poses and so on. The brotherhood troopers seem to advance quite aggressively without showing any fear or remorse as the true fanatics they are (which I'd say is fluffy). Chasseures look calculating and quite calm which fits someawhat emotionless cyborgs, Angelika, as the seasoned commander I suppose she is, reminds me of that hardened sergant from apocalypse now (the "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" dude) in her calmness and so on... And this far we've only seen a couple of actual miniatures, probably assembled to match the renders so that we should be able to judge the quality of the cast to the render.

Prodos wrote:Well its obviously clear what Andrew1975 is hoping for with his continuous negativity!

For those of you that want this to suceed we have just reached the 150% of target pledge. As a thankyou something extra is coming very soon!

(BTW Prodos see 150% of target in les than 10 days as a big success). We already have Bauhaus, new characters, new dice and new units. And lots more to come!

I don't see in what universe your KS could be considered a failure or even close to it! The KS is funded and have reached a number of streach-goals, have plenty of time to go and seem to have a growing dedicated fanbase. at least I'm seeing new faces at the FB-page every now and then, willing to share their thoughts and support!

And I'll be eagerly awaiting this "little extra"!

As a big thank you to all pledgers (old or new) and to celebrate making 150% of our stretched goal. All pledgers of 'Razide' level or above will recieve this fellow for free. He is very limited edition and will only be available on Kicksarter (for the next 52 days). If you want to buy more copies please add £4 per copy to your pledge.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Hopefully that will silence the stupid complaints about the lack of free stuff.

Nice one Prodos, not sure what I'll do with him though.

 Nick Ellingworth wrote:
Hopefully that will silence the stupid complaints about the lack of free stuff.

Oh, that optimism...

It's also a Kickstarter exclusive, for the "I see no reason to pledge" crowd. But I imagine that won't be good enough either. We need MOAR.

Just paint him up beautifully and post a pic here on the forum for us to admire ;D

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Nick Ellingworth wrote:
Hopefully that will silence the stupid complaints about the lack of free stuff.

Oh, that optimism...

It's also a Kickstarter exclusive, for the "I see no reason to pledge" crowd. But I imagine that won't be good enough either. We need MOAR.

Sadly you're probably right (thanks for creating excessive expectations for every kickstarter campaign CMON), still though it's a nice gesture from Prodos to include a freebie like that.