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Nice one! I always liked that picture, will be exiting to see Prodos interpretation of that guy! Also fun to see what might come from the other factions (and an incentive to get a small mishima force when they are released as well )!

The Mishima Doomtrooper announcement made me increase my pledge to Dark Legion and more...

I always loved that mini, here is my old take on the even older mini:

Damn that was nice. You got realy good painting skills. Show us more

I'll say it again because people don't seem to understand in general where Andrew and others are coming from.

The kickstarter actually costs Americans more than if we wait for release right now. Even with the additional fig we break even (only at the Razide level) without shipping but are right back to paying more with shipping.

The kickstarter is successful. But Andrew, like me, probably doesn't like seeing a kickstarter fall short of it's potential and the way this kickstarter is being run is falling short of that potential.

There is no cost break for pre-ordering. No cost break for quantity.. Very, very few kickstarter exclusives (up to 3 if you go dark legion and pick Cyber's as one of your starters). And while people are touting the community feedback like that makes up for the the above remember other kickstarters have taken community feedback and still managed to do much of the above.

But, like a few people on the Facebook page have pointed out it seems they are fine with not maximizing their potential on this. And bear in mind that's most of the argument. They aren't maximizing which to me impacts their success, making their kickstarter less successful. Not unsuccessful but definitely less successful if that makes sense.

And Andrew's complaints are valid as a backer. I'm not backing because of all of the above personally. I refuse to pay more than retail for a product from a company I haven't heard of before that's producing a game that's failed before.

Prodos wrote:
Well its obviously clear what Andrew1975 is hoping for with his continuous negativity!

Not cool man. Not cool.

Especially for a company rep.

I didn't see anywhere that he wished for it to fail. Just that it (the KS) didn't have value for him yet.

I'm not a big fan of the new aesthetic either, and might not pledge for more than the rulebook and possibly a few single minis. We'll see if it becomes more enticing to me (and others, obviously) in the next 50-odd days.

~Eric

Hulksmash and andrew1975

Don't take it personally. I think we are all still suffering from KS overload. Everyone is expecting huge freebies with each kickstarter going out there, and THAT is not what it's about. Would it help to get more Capitol for the business? Yes. But it can also hurt if they start trying for too much and get buried in trying to give free stuff, free shipping and everything else. Kickstarters are feeling some pain from outside forces due to shipping increases and delays outside their control. If they know they can provide X for Y and be viable afterwards, then why shoot for the moon? Let them go with their plan. If people are willing to pre-order for close to full retail because they love the game, great. The KS is about getting the gam back out there, let them do that without the armchair quarterbacking as there's stuff behind the scenes we are not privy to.

Am I backing it? No....not because of shipping or no freebies, but because I never got into the esthetics of it, like how I don't like the look of PP.

I am a huge fan of Dreamforge and Marks designs, did I back it for the discount? Possibly, but mainly to get the product to market.

I wish Prodos luck, looks good even if its not my style.

 Octopussy wrote:
Damn that was nice. You got realy good painting skills. Show us more

Your wish is my command, see here:
http://www.adpublishing.de/html/warzone.html

 Hulksmash wrote:

And Andrew's complaints are valid as a backer. I'm not backing because of all of the above personally. I refuse to pay more than retail for a product from a company I haven't heard of before that's producing a game that's failed before.

Indeed. I was never a superfan of warzone and am not psychologically invested in it so I don't see the sense in paying more for the priveledge of more risk compared with simply just buying it when its in stock. Since when does simply saying that you'll likely buy the product when it hits the shelves turn you into the bad guy? This kickstarter has succeeded in making me and others interested in Warzone for the first time in over a decade (I skipped the last few incarnations/reboots) even if we're not interested in funding an international kickstarter and I consider that to be a success as well.

This really is quality painting, your Mishima force is looking Ace!

One becomes quite nostalgic to watch it

Out of interest, where is this game made? Where are the games designers and sculptors from?

I'm guessing re. the guys ordering from the US, as the KS continues it will gradually become better and better value, to the point where it will steam-roll and then become a better value purchase?

 Pacific wrote:
Out of interest, where is this game made? Where are the games designers and sculptors from?

I'm guessing re. the guys ordering from the US, as the KS continues it will gradually become better and better value, to the point where it will steam-roll and then become a better value purchase?

I'm pretty sure that earlier in the thread the company registration details were quoted as being in the UK. Not sure as to the nationalities of the designers and sculptors, though.

 warboss wrote:

Since when does simply saying that you'll likely buy theproduct when it hits the shelves turn you into the bad guy?

It doesn't, but constantly nagging about it and the reasons why (WHICH WE ALL GOT BY NOW! Sorry don't mean to be rude but we've heard everything by now.) really isn't helping anyone.

 warboss wrote:
This kickstarter has succeeded in making me and others interested in Warzone for the first time in over a decade (I skipped the last few incarnations/reboots) even if we're not interested in funding an international kickstarter and I consider that to be a success as well.

Great, can't we just leave it at that and discuss warzone instead?

Really,

I don't want to come off so negative. I really want this to start of the best that it can. It's a very competitive market, for a game to take off and be successful, well you need to appeal to a large audience and build buzz.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Nick Ellingworth wrote:
Hopefully that will silence the stupid complaints about the lack of free stuff.

Oh, that optimism...

It's also a Kickstarter exclusive, for the "I see no reason to pledge" crowd. But I imagine that won't be good enough either. We need MOAR.

yo dawg, did't you know it's not worth pledging unless the project already has already been funded at 2 million bucks and there's 400 free miniatures at the 1 dollar pledge level

Ok, Andrew1975 it's nice of you to be concerned but I do believe that whatever constructive critique you've put forward got lost in the mass of all your, and all similar to yours, rants. I really don't mean to be rude but I fail to see anything positive coming out of carrying on this cost issue any more. We've heard you, now can we move on?

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
Ok, Andrew1975 it's nice of you to be concerned but I do believe that whatever constructive critique you've put forward got lost in the mass of all your, and all similar to yours, rants. I really don't mean to be rude but I fail to see anything positive coming out of carrying on this cost issue any more. We've heard you, now can we move on?

If you notice, most of my posts are replys to other posts. I'm not just throwing negativity waves out there for no reason.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Really,

I don't want to come off so negative. I really want this to start of the best that it can. It's a very competitive market, for a game to take off and be successful, well you need to appeal to a large audience and build buzz.

Out of pure curiosity. What in your opinion is taking of and being successful?


And on Warzone related:
I might be the only on that thinks this... But i would relay like to see a total redesign of Golgotha, both the original art and the model were ugly as hell! I still feel like i want to throw a brick at my screen just to make the pic disappear and never com back!

Woot, a free Mishima troop that also happens to be a Doomtrooper! That means it is useful to all of us (well, except Dark Legion), since the Cartel was always the ally-heavy faction that could loan stuff out to corps. Now Tatsumoto just needs a ranged-specialist partner and we have a proper two-man Doomtrooper team. Do I smell potential for a hard-bitten Imperial Doomtrooper done up as a Blood Beret (and together they fight... well zombies and demons)?

I think that lack of free stuff isn't a problem. Real problem is that we havn't seen painted miniatures.

Or rules, but i think we will se both tomorrow.
If i remember this correct, they said they would have game play vids monday 25 and they are most likely going to have painted figs for that. Think it was Worthy painting that were doing the painting.

Yes I remember it too. I asked them. For me painted miniatures are more important than rules beacause propably i won't have anyone to play with for a long time.

That would be amazing future incentives. One off minis of other mega-corps for the doomtrooper feel of it.

I vote Yea.

I could be wrong, but you might have to wait a bit longer for painted minis. Not much longer though, hopefully!

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:

It doesn't, but constantly nagging about it and the reasons why (WHICH WE ALL GOT BY NOW! Sorry don't mean to be rude but we've heard everything by now.) really isn't helping anyone.

*snip*

Great, can't we just leave it at that and discuss warzone instead?

Sure, just remember to PM the people "supporting" the kickstarter that keep sarcastically bringing it up again like.. you know.. these folks

 judgedoug wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Nick Ellingworth wrote:
Hopefully that will silence the stupid complaints about the lack of free stuff.

Oh, that optimism...

It's also a Kickstarter exclusive, for the "I see no reason to pledge" crowd. But I imagine that won't be good enough either. We need MOAR.

yo dawg, did't you know it's not worth pledging unless the project already has already been funded at 2 million bucks and there's 400 free miniatures at the 1 dollar pledge level

The topic was dead for several pages until the "supporters" wanted to supposedly prove how wrong those who aren't pledging are.

You have to realize that people want to know how they minis would look like. 3D renders ain't telling nothing at all how minis look like.It would be enough to see only one painted miniatures. Than it would be easier to imagine how miniatures transfer from renders into reality.

Ah well, it wouldn't be a Kickstarter thread without the same sentiments being written for page after page!

As long as there are some snippets of news though, and newcomers to the thread can have their questions answered (as mine were) then I think all is well.

Right anyway! I'm now in for this, pledged at the 'Razide' level which seems like a reasonable amount of minis and the rulebook. I'm a sucker for reading big rulebooks and painting stuff, even if I never get to play a game (have got an absolute pile of stuff that can fit that category unfortunately :( )

Dystartes wrote:I'm pretty sure that earlier in the thread the company registration details were quoted as being in the UK. Not sure as to the nationalities of the designers and sculptors, though.

Ok thanks for that. Not sure why I had the impression before that it was a US game though? Was it more popular over the other side of the pond previously?

Pak0 wrote:
You have to realize that people want to know how they minis would look like. 3D renders ain't telling nothing at all how minis look like.It would be enough to see only one painted miniatures. Than it would be easier to imagine how miniatures transfer from renders into reality.

Miniatures also take time to produce and paint up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pacific wrote:


Ok thanks for that. Not sure why I had the impression before that it was a US game though? Was it more popular over the other side of the pond previously?

Prodos Games is a UK based company, Leamington Spa, South Warwickshire to be more precise! AFAIK, it is 3 guys at the moment, Mark who is from the UK, Jarek who is from Poland and lives in the UK and Michal who lives in Poland. Then there's all the wordy people that talk about it like myself who aren't part of the company, but friends with the guys that are!

Warzone, as I understand, was more popular in mainland Europe than in the UK and was even a Swedish game.

Does that help?

 Pacific wrote:
Ok thanks for that. Not sure why I had the impression before that it was a US game though? Was it more popular over the other side of the pond previously?

As Rob said, it was originally a Swedish game that was an outgrowth of the RPG Mutant (which later morphed in to Mutant: Rymd and then Mutant Chronicles proper). It was apparently quite popular in mainland Europe and also had a fairly good North American following (my own anecdotal proof being that my LGS actually carried it, they tend to carry only GW and have only recently started branching out when WM/H and Malifaux got really popular). I also seem to recall that Poland is actually one of the still actinve Doomtrooper communities as well (Doomtrooper was the CCG), but I may be misremembering or out of date at this point.

Warzone was hugely popular in the Western US. With tons of tourneys and stand alone events being run at cons!

So the demise of Target was hard felt out here.

I would love to see a system that allows a few Doomtroopers go against a whole army of necromutants.. The older game had only a few nice looking miniatures but over all I think this is the reason for their demise. The new models look great and considering how much I want to pledge.