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Yes I absolutely see this
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I think German styled infantry look awesome in 40k, and no less out of place than any other army you would see.

The key is removing some of the key weapons that definitively show that they're WWII germans sadly. For example, 98k's, mp42, and MG 42's would all be taken out most of the time for me (Maybe use the MG 42's as heavy stubbers/bolters)

I'd set them up with actual GW weapons (meltas, plasma, etc) and have rank and file troopers carrying a lasgun of some sort, probably Vic's style since they aren't the size of an anti tank rifle for most WWII plastic infantry in the 28mm scale.

The tanks are tricky too, but with the right mods, look absolutely amazing.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

Coming in and posting random stuff is insulting, potentially disruptive, and how flame wars get started.

Sayeth the guy that started this thread to complain about how German sounds wrong in 40K, then used an example of bad German to try and prove this.

Point on the nazi stuff though. What specifically nazi themes are there if nazi stuff is to be avoided?

Other than not using a black swastika inside a while circle on a red background or using the SS ranking system, I'm struggling to think of what is actually nazi compared to what was inherited from the Prussian tradition such as the stahlhelm, iron cross etc. The rest of iconic things like the burgmutze and tiger tanks was simply technology/fashion available at the time.
Nazi is psychological rather than physical.
Unless someone has nazi slogans on their banners then the army in question should be considered an army based on the look of the heer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and reich is hardly a nazi word either. Ultimately the word is of ancient celtic origin.

cadbren wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

Coming in and posting random stuff is insulting, potentially disruptive, and how flame wars get started.

Sayeth the guy that started this thread to complain about how German sounds wrong in 40K, then used an example of bad German to try and prove this.

Point on the nazi stuff though. What specifically nazi themes are there if nazi stuff is to be avoided?

Other than not using a black swastika inside a while circle on a red background or using the SS ranking system, I'm struggling to think of what is actually nazi compared to what was inherited from the Prussian tradition such as the stahlhelm, iron cross etc. The rest of iconic things like the burgmutze and tiger tanks was simply technology/fashion available at the time.
Nazi is psychological rather than physical.
Unless someone has nazi slogans on their banners then the army in question should be considered an army based on the look of the heer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and reich is hardly a nazi word either. Ultimately the word is of ancient celtic origin.

They're associated with the nazis nonetheless. I'm personally pretty lax about these things but if someone took offense to say, an Iron Cross, then I think that's okay, though it would be a bit silly.

I knew someone who did Roman reenactment. There was a lot of debate about using swastikas on a replica of an ancient shield. In the end they were put on because it would have been false to leave them off. Better for the public to see them and question and be educated, than remain in ignorance.
So far as I'm aware it has never caused any problems.
I really don't like kneejerk reactions to anything as they tend to cause more problems than they seek to solve.

Um just wondering but isnt the iron cross also like a badge of honor given to distinguished marines

Nazi is psychological rather than physical.

I would like you to try this in any country in central europe or lacking that Israel. There is absolutly nothing good about german looks , esthetics , uniforms etc. Using them as a base of an army is borderline offensive and should never be done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Makumba wrote:

Nazi is psychological rather than physical.

I would like you to try this in any country in central europe or lacking that Israel. There is absolutly nothing good about german looks , esthetics , uniforms etc. Using them as a base of an army is borderline offensive and should never be done.

though it would be a bit silly.

your British right? how would you feel if the Iron cross was for magnificent service in the Lufftwaffe or the Kriegsmarine in 1941-42?

Just a note..

Modern german military emblem


Marksmanship badges

All very much like a Iron cross, its a very common design used around the worlds militaries.

and the modern german army uses a iron cross as emblem, not a nazi one, nothing wrong with german designs, just stay away from the swastika..mmmkkay

Makumba wrote:

Nazi is psychological rather than physical.

I would like you to try this in any country in central europe or lacking that Israel. There is absolutly nothing good about german looks , esthetics , uniforms etc. Using them as a base of an army is borderline offensive and should never be done.

That's your opinion and one that is not shared by a great many people. The number of books that are still being produced on just the SS and their uniforms would suggest that there are a vast number of people fascinated with the imagery of that period.
As for Israel where they bulldoze protesters into the ground and sterilize black women, or central europe where freedom of speech is repressed and questioning the state gets you thrown in prison, I care nothing for those fascist places. Funny that you would use them to promote your argument which seems to stem from an anti-fascist position.

german soldiers were getting iron crosses for their campaign in Poland , in yugoslavia , in Russia. they were given medals for commiting horrible crimes . there is nothing common or ok with those emblemas and what they are a symbolizes . If germans decide to keep those signs and medals the same way , well their choice , but there is nothing normal about it .
It would be as if a unit of US army kept actual indian scalps fixed to their company banners .

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Just a note..

Modern german military emblem


Marksmanship badges

All very much like a Iron cross, its a very common design used around the worlds militaries.

and the modern german army uses a iron cross as emblem, not a nazi one, nothing wrong with german designs, just stay away from the swastika..mmmkkay

Note too the squad support weapon, oh no, it's a "nazi" weapon!

cadbren wrote:

Makumba wrote:

Nazi is psychological rather than physical.

I would like you to try this in any country in central europe or lacking that Israel. There is absolutly nothing good about german looks , esthetics , uniforms etc. Using them as a base of an army is borderline offensive and should never be done.

That's your opinion and one that is not shared by a great many people. The number of books that are still being produced on just the SS and their uniforms would suggest that there are a vast number of people fascinated with the imagery of that period.
As for Israel where they bulldoze protesters into the ground and sterilize black women, or central europe where freedom of speech is repressed and questioning the state gets you thrown in prison, I care nothing for those fascist places. Funny that you would use them to promote your argument which seems to stem from an anti-fascist position.

So, Poland and Israel are fascist regimes, and you're ok with Nazi Germany? Just to be clear, that's what you're saying here, right?

the badges are american...

Makumba wrote:
german soldiers were getting iron crosses for their campaign in Poland , in yugoslavia , in Russia. they were given medals for commiting horrible crimes . there is nothing common or ok with those emblemas and what they are a symbolizes . If germans decide to keep those signs and medals the same way , well their choice , but there is nothing normal about it .
It would be as if a unit of US army kept actual indian scalps fixed to their company banners .

I understand your concern... but really, having issues with a german-styled army would be like Germans finding a Valhallan or Vostroyan army distasteful. The real Russians and Cossacks they're based upon committed atrocities of all sorts in their advance over Germany in the closing days of the war. Few armies and countries in real life have a clean human rights record.

For a Spaniard, the clerical fascism of the Imperium echoes Francoist Spain in no small way, not to mention that the last executions carried on by the Spanish Inquisition took place in the relatively recent XIX Century... Yet I'm in no way offended by 40k. I take those fictional references to real-life totalitarianism, cruelty and religious violence as narrative devices that help deepen the overall dystopian feel to the game. 40k is about remembering that, despite the progressivist, utopian hopes of science-fiction, the horrors of the past can be perfectly present in the future. A remainder that things can always take a turn for the worse.

Makumba wrote:
german soldiers were getting iron crosses for their campaign in Poland , in yugoslavia , in Russia. they were given medals for commiting horrible crimes . there is nothing common or ok with those emblemas and what they are a symbolizes . If germans decide to keep those signs and medals the same way , well their choice , but there is nothing normal about it .
It would be as if a unit of US army kept actual indian scalps fixed to their company banners .

The Iron Cross has been used long before the rise of nazism and has nothing to do with that particular ideology.

Makumba wrote:
german soldiers were getting iron crosses for their campaign in Poland , in yugoslavia , in Russia. they were given medals for commiting horrible crimes . there is nothing common or ok with those emblemas and what they are a symbolizes . If germans decide to keep those signs and medals the same way , well their choice , but there is nothing normal about it .
It would be as if a unit of US army kept actual indian scalps fixed to their company banners .

The German Army has been giving out Iron Crosses since the early 1800's.

The first recorded using was in 1219 by Teutonic Knights.

I don't think it's a Nazi symbol.

Makumba wrote:
german soldiers were getting iron crosses for their campaign in Poland , in yugoslavia , in Russia. they were given medals for commiting horrible crimes . there is nothing common or ok with those emblemas and what they are a symbolizes . If germans decide to keep those signs and medals the same way , well their choice , but there is nothing normal about it .
It would be as if a unit of US army kept actual indian scalps fixed to their company banners .

As an avid historian, I take great issue with this kind of mentality. First of all, medals were not granted for committing the racial hate crimes that the Nazi are remembered for. No SA officer was decorated for vandalizing Jewish owned shops during Kristalnacht, nor were Einsatzgruppen given medals for rounding up racial minorities behind the frontline. Medals were given for victory on the battlefield. Second of all, the Iron Cross was not concieved by the Nazi regime. It is a VERY old symbol and for most people it's far more reminiscent of Imperial Germany than it is of Nazi Germany. Also the comparison between the Iron Cross and an Indian scalp is laughable, you should not consider those two things to be comparably offensive.

In any case, it is certainly not your position to pass judgment over a society and boldly declare 'there is nothing normal about it.' Different cultures have different ideas of what it is to be 'normal' and most individuals recognize that to assert their ideas of normality on others is wrong. And you're certainly not in any position to tell other people that there is something fundamentally wrong with the German aesthetic. I like the German aesthetic and there's nothing wrong with that opinion because that's exactly what it is: an opinion.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
I started to realize this a while ago, for obvious reasons. German words, and especially German sentences, do not work in 40k background. For some words, it works, such as Krieg, or Eisenstein, but anything more intense than that looks completely out of place. To give a fanfiction example, the world name Todth works well, but it breaks down once you have a poster like this:

Poster made by Skaerkrow – this is not for me or my fluff, it's an example


it doesn't work.

I think it might be the style or appearance of the language that doesn't fit with the rest of the 40k style. Language and otherwise, it's been something that I've struggled with. In response to the issue here, I've also been making up different in-universe words. I think part of the reason that it seems like a good idea, because I've seen a lot of people say so in other places, is because of the militaristic stereotype. It starts out seeming like a great idea, but ends up not being one.

This really doesn't make much sense. I have a feeling though that its not that German looks horrible in 40k, it just looks horrible to you

 tomjoad wrote:

So, Poland and Israel are fascist regimes, and you're ok with Nazi Germany? Just to be clear, that's what you're saying here, right?

Where did I say that Nazi Germany was justified in what it did? I said that the imagery from then is impressive because it is. Israel has no equivalent, their army look like factory workers, they have no sense of style, the necrons are more interesting and they're bland robots.

Try to remember that at the end of the war Poland ethnically cleansed several million Germans from land which had been German for centuries. It just shows that the Germans were not unique in being nasty to their neighbours.

Polish military history is likely represented in the Ravenwing bike banners, a nod to the winged hussars who, amongst other things, helped defeat the muslim seige of Vienna in the 17th century.

As for soldiers getting awards for bravery whether the war was considered right or not, are you f'ing kidding?

The Iron Cross is based on the cross used by the Teutonic Knights in the middle ages, that's its origins. It consists of the black cross that the Teutonic order originally used over the top of the Jerusalem Cross. The Jerusalem cross poking out underneath is what gives the Iron Cross its silver border.

The death's head, that came to be associated with the concentration camps was originally used by Prussian cavalry in the 18th century who also wore a black uniform. The black uniform and death's head was used on and off by various units within the Prussian and Brunswickian armies. It was then picked up by the Freikorps and later used by the SS.

We can drop the done to death WW II analysis and who did what to whom arguments please. This is neither the time or place. Further such posts will be treated as spam.
Thanks

Makumba wrote:

Nazi is psychological rather than physical.

I would like you to try this in any country in central europe or lacking that Israel. There is absolutly nothing good about german looks , esthetics , uniforms etc. Using them as a base of an army is borderline offensive and should never be done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Makumba wrote:

Nazi is psychological rather than physical.

I would like you to try this in any country in central europe or lacking that Israel. There is absolutly nothing good about german looks , esthetics , uniforms etc. Using them as a base of an army is borderline offensive and should never be done.

though it would be a bit silly.

your British right? how would you feel if the Iron cross was for magnificent service in the Lufftwaffe or the Kriegsmarine in 1941-42?

The Iron Cross has been used historically by Germany since before WW1

 reds8n wrote:
We can drop the done to death WW II analysis and who did what to whom arguments please. This is neither the time or place. Further such posts will be treated as spam.
Thanks

I agree. The topic is German words in 40k, not an argument over symbols which has been beaten into the ground even before my arrival.

If anyone still wants to discuss it, they can send a PM or go to the historical discussion board I created.

I've always liked "Scriptor".

Way cooler than 'Librarian'.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Just a note..

Modern german military emblem


Marksmanship badges

All very much like a Iron cross, its a very common design used around the worlds militaries.

and the modern german army uses a iron cross as emblem, not a nazi one, nothing wrong with german designs, just stay away from the swastika..mmmkkay

Those aren't Nazis? I thought they invented the assault rifle they have in their hand or something like. I know for sure Hitler had color photos.

Check out the flag in the left side.

 Manchu wrote:
Check out the flag in the left side.

Nazis would totally not flip the feth out about that flag...