Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

wargey wrote:
Ba'ken reterns to the 7 company train the nephotites form scoria.
Scout sargents are not veterans compeared to tactical SQ the salamanders often have there most battle hardened veterans training ther scouts.

Stop using the trilogy as a source for real background fluff. Just stop. Don't do it. Stop referring to it.

As has been pointed out, every sergeant is at the minimum a sergeant or experienced member from a battle company. If you want some sort of special sergeant, just use the rules for Telion and give him a Sallies name.

But seriously, you 100% need to stop using the books as a source of fluff to be used on the table top.

Right so your saying Tu'shans a load of BS and da'kir and pretor and velcona and argos and valkun he'stan and primach valkun (there all from books you said stop using books for fluf oh and the firedrakes.)

wargey wrote:
Right so your saying Tu'shans a load of BS and da'kir and pretor and velcona and argos and valkun he'stan and primach valkun (there all from books you said stop using books for fluf oh and the firedrakes.)

*sigh*

I don't even know where to start with you.

Most of the characters in the book already existed in the fluff prior to the Salamander trilogy. Tu'shan has been Chapter Master for some time now, the primarch has been well established in canon, Vulkan He'stan's fluff was also established before the trilogy. However, using the book to justify your idea for a character is just flat out wrong.

There is a very distinct difference between how a character is portrayed in a novel that revolves around them being the main protagonists, and how they're portrayed on the table top attached to a statline and a set of rules.

You can't make that distinction. That's what I'm trying to say.

So I'm gak at codex writing (found that out a long time ago)

wargey wrote:
So I'm gak at codex writing (found that out a long time ago)

You may be now, but if you listened to the advice and suggestions in your last attempt, you'd be a lot better.

Instead you chose to ignore it.

Now, let's not get off track, and return to improving this codex.

Sorry, McNinja.

wargey wrote:
So I'm gak at codex writing (found that out a long time ago)

Look, wargey. I've been trying this WHOLE time to be as nice towards you as possible. During that whole time all you did was ignore my advice, and make me a scapegoat for whatever advice you read AND INTERPRETED WRONG.
Now that me, and the others you constantly decided NOT TO LISTEN, left YOUR thread, you come to a nicely balanced fandex thread, crying and bellowing about how bad YOU are at codex-design.

You are fething twelve! Did you really think you could, by ANY chance be instantly good at making a playable codex for your favorite chapter? No? I didn't think so. So just go back to your own fething thread, and complain there. Ok? If you're gonna' comment here, do it politely, and keep it on topic.

I have spoken. If you're going to contact a mod and ask someone to ban me or something, go ahead.

Woah, dudes, calm down. As much as Wargey tries my patience, at the very least his hearts in the right place. He just needs to be more open to people's suggestions.

Please, I'd rather not have my thread locked.

 LlamaAgility wrote:

wargey wrote:
So I'm gak at codex writing (found that out a long time ago)

Look, wargey. I've been trying this WHOLE time to be as nice towards you as possible. During that whole time all you did was ignore my advice, and make me a scapegoat for whatever advice you read AND INTERPRETED WRONG.
Now that me, and the others you constantly decided NOT TO LISTEN, left YOUR thread, you come to a nicely balanced fandex thread, crying and bellowing about how bad YOU are at codex-design.

You are fething twelve! Did you really think you could, by ANY chance be instantly good at making a playable codex for your favorite chapter? No? I didn't think so. So just go back to your own fething thread, and complain there. Ok? If you're gonna' comment here, do it politely, and keep it on topic.

I have spoken. If you're going to contact a mod and ask someone to ban me or something, go ahead.

Llama and Backspace...you're alright in my books.

Sooo, what was the comment on my sally psychic powers?

 Formosa wrote:
Sooo, what was the comment on my sally psychic powers?

I'm not sure, to be honest. Not that they aren't great powers, but I'm deciding between those or re-rolls n the Pyromancy table.


Also, Changelog:
Many more additions to the Army Adjustments!

Need help with the Veteran Equipment section! If there should even be one, I'm thinking something like Chaos Artefacts or Dark Angels special weapons available to only sergeants or veteran squads.

Gotta be that guy again, but I should point out that the options for the Hand flamer and Infernus pistol are +10pts and +15pts respectively in the C:BA, which would still be very appropriate in this codex.

Also, I'm curious what an inferno cannon is? Is it a flame storm cannon with the torrent rule, or does it have different stats? Not ringing a bell for me for some reason.

It's the gun the hellhiund has

 Formosa wrote:
It's the gun the hellhiund has

Wow, I derped hard there then, I'm a Guard player.

Should probably know my own codex.

Haha it's all good, Blacksails. I noticed it under Flame weapons in the BRB, and I threw it in. Being "that guy" is fine by me if it helps balance the fan-dex. If this is successful, I would like to do more.

Well, I have a number of thoughts, so I'll just throw it all out there with my reasoning and see what you think about it.

I'll try and do this logically.

USRs
Good, no complaints here.

Armoury
Masters of the Forge looks better now. Reasonably fluffy, but not broken as the costs add up quickly if you take too many of the upgrades. Obviously play-testing would be required, but I feel like its more or less balanced at +5pts.

Hardened armour I'm still oddly iffy on. I'd probably make it a 0-1 choice per army (like Ork 'Ard Boyz) and make it so that whatever squad purchases it must do so for every model in the squad. Then again, I also feel like this would be better represented by the addition of the Siege Mantlets in IA:10 in the Siege army list. Basically, its a 50pts upgrade for a Tac squad that allows them to re-roll failed armour saves, but can't be transported, can't make sweeping advances, and can't run. But meh, either way, not really a big issue.

Rest looks fine, though.

Characters

Again, no issues here. Tu'shan is suitably strong without being game breaking. Worst case scenario is to apply a 10pts 'tax' to his cost.

Army Adjustments

I pointed out the hand flamer/infernus pistol issue, simple fix.

The Razorbacks really only need the multi-melta option. And that should be a single multi-melta, not twin-linked (see here for my reason from a model perspective: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Tanks/MULTI-MELTA-RAZORBACK-CONVERSION-KIT.html). From a rules perspective, I strongly believe that units shouldn't 100% overlap in what they provide the army. Currently you have given predators a twin-linked multi-melta option, which is fine. With the razors sporting the same option, I would have very little reason to use the TL MM on the predator when I can just get them from the razors instead. By limiting the razor's upgrades to the standard list from C:SM and including the single MM for +10pts, you'd still give preds more options worth considering. Then again, I also firmly believe in simplicity, and keeping options somewhat limited eases people's understanding of what unit can take what option when showing them a new codex.

Leading from the razors to the preds, the TL MM option should really only be +10pts. Considering that a normal upgrade is to go from heavy bolter to MM for +10pts, it stands to reason going from an autocannon to TL MM would be +10pts, as this puts the pred in really close range. Sponsons look fine though; 105pts gets you 3 MM shots, but at danger close range.

The MM option for the termies is a nice addition, fits inline with the plasma cannon option for the DA. However, I feel that the flamestorm cannon option is simply too big for a terminator. Considering how big a heavy flamer looks on them, I think its stretching the limits giving them that powerful a weapon. I'd personally leave it out for balance reasons and just for fluff/modelling.

Rest is looking solid though. Just throwing ideas out there, take what you look, leave a comment.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks man! Let's see...

Razorbacks - I didn't even see that on the FW site lol. I like the look of it, though.

Preds - True, I'll get on that.

Terminator weapons - I'm not sure about removing the FSC. I'm picturing something like the Cultist flamer, where the model is using both hands to carry the weapon, so a heavy weapon, even for a Terminator. The power of the weapon is offset by how big it is, perhaps I could make the model carrying it Extremely Bulky? I definitely do not picture it like the Infernus has it, that would definitely be too much. I'm thinking something like this. but a bit smaller. The Flamestorm isn't a Torrent weapon, but the IC is, so I would think the weapon would be a bit smaller, a bit like the one of the LRR.

Ok, McNinja.
I'm sorry for two things.
1. That rant. I snapped at the bloody kid because of his behaviour.
2. I'll be busy with my own fan codex, so I won't be able to give much feedback here (not that mine is neede, you guys have well covered )
3. I'll still be reading your updates here...

I agree all you nead to do is make your troops and fast attack I would make fast attack slightly slower moving and more flamers and meltas. Like give your vangaurd inferno pistols and hand flamers with power sword and price them at more but state if they don't take jump packs they count as elite.

wargey wrote:
I agree all you nead to do is make your troops and fast attack I would make fast attack slightly slower moving and more flamers and meltas. Like give your vangaurd inferno pistols and hand flamers with power sword and price them at more but state if they don't take jump packs they count as elite.

How would you exactly "slow down" the fast attack?

 LlamaAgility wrote:

wargey wrote:
I agree all you nead to do is make your troops and fast attack I would make fast attack slightly slower moving and more flamers and meltas. Like give your vangaurd inferno pistols and hand flamers with power sword and price them at more but state if they don't take jump packs they count as elite.

How would you exactly "slow down" the fast attack?

He probably means limiting the use of jump packs/speeders as sallies can't effectively train jump troops. At least I hope that's what he means

Yes that is if a fast attack has non of the following bikes land speeders or jump packs they are not limeted to 0-1

 EnormousName wrote:

 LlamaAgility wrote:

wargey wrote:
I agree all you nead to do is make your troops and fast attack I would make fast attack slightly slower moving and more flamers and meltas. Like give your vangaurd inferno pistols and hand flamers with power sword and price them at more but state if they don't take jump packs they count as elite.

How would you exactly "slow down" the fast attack?

He probably means limiting the use of jump packs/speeders as sallies can't effectively train jump troops. At least I hope that's what he means

Well, knowing wargey, I suspected he had another complicated idea coming.
If not, I understand & agree. But I still believe just limiting fast attack to 0-1 would be a decent enough change, although it IS up to McNinja.

No I did not.

The farseer from imperial armour 11 messes up the combat chart. I think he looses 2 troop choises, 1 elite and 1 fast attack but can have 4 heavy suport choises. Those mhyrenenias are quite warn torn and bitter. Perhaps make that a similar rule on a special character?

I would suggest that for the whole predator with Multimelta business, you could just a sort of slow Baal predator. Give it an extra point of side armour (Meltas require no ammunition, and the energy could be easily obtained inside the Predator or mounted on the rear)

This would give you a F13 S12 R10 tank, with the purpose of either flaming, using meltas or both. This is a unique roll.

 Lord Magnus wrote:
I would suggest that for the whole predator with Multimelta business, you could just a sort of slow Baal predator. Give it an extra point of side armour (Meltas require no ammunition, and the energy could be easily obtained inside the Predator or mounted on the rear)

This would give you a F13 S12 R10 tank, with the purpose of either flaming, using meltas or both. This is a unique roll.

This tank basically already exists as the Predator Infernus, which comes standard with a flamestorm cannon, and can be upgraded to a melta cannon (Large Blast Melta). Tasty.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Lord Magnus wrote:
I would suggest that for the whole predator with Multimelta business, you could just a sort of slow Baal predator. Give it an extra point of side armour (Meltas require no ammunition, and the energy could be easily obtained inside the Predator or mounted on the rear)

This would give you a F13 S12 R10 tank, with the purpose of either flaming, using meltas or both. This is a unique roll.

This tank basically already exists as the Predator Infernus, which comes standard with a flamestorm cannon, and can be upgraded to a melta cannon (Large Blast Melta). Tasty.

Oh, alright. Sorry I am not updated with all the forgeworld rules, will be sure to check first next time. Thanks for the info!

 Lord Magnus wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Lord Magnus wrote:
I would suggest that for the whole predator with Multimelta business, you could just a sort of slow Baal predator. Give it an extra point of side armour (Meltas require no ammunition, and the energy could be easily obtained inside the Predator or mounted on the rear)

This would give you a F13 S12 R10 tank, with the purpose of either flaming, using meltas or both. This is a unique roll.

This tank basically already exists as the Predator Infernus, which comes standard with a flamestorm cannon, and can be upgraded to a melta cannon (Large Blast Melta). Tasty.

Oh, alright. Sorry I am not updated with all the forgeworld rules, will be sure to check first next time. Thanks for the info!

If you're curious, we posted the link on the first page under the additions heading. Should be the last entry I believe.

All right. Now that I read through the whole thing, I'd like to say I like it. I really do. But did notice some stuff I'd like to be cleared down.

1. You should clarify whether the Hvy Flamer is among the Hvy Weapons or Special Weapons section in C:SM. I know through blatantly obvious logic, that it is a Hvy Weapon, but this is currently an exploitable flaw.
- Same thing for Hand Flamer

2. I also think that the "Hardened Armor" upgrade should either not be available for artificer armor, or should cost 10pts for AA and 5pts for PA.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and I like what you did with Tu'Shan, but maybe at that price range the TH: Heavy could just fine be S10? Although the S9 is a nicely balanced middle-ground, so it's entirely up to you.

That said, it was hard to find flaws to note to you.
Keep it up dude!