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Many of the people who post on the background forum have more than a passing interest in 40k fluff. What fluff would you change completely or add in? Make sure to say what you think about other peoples changes/additions.

 Shlazaor wrote:
Many of the people who post on the background forum have more than a passing interest in 40k fluff. What fluff would you change completely or add in? Make sure to say what you think about other peoples changes/additions.

Take every bit of fluff He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named ever wrote, especially re GK, Sisters and Necrons, take 'em out behind the barn, shoot 'em, dig a hole, set 'em on fire and then bury 'em.

More specifically:

Return GK to what they were in the Daemonhunters codex. Restore the Sisters' previous powers and give them additional religious goodies. Get RID of the idiotic Necron re-write and restore them to the nightmare-horror, implacable force they were. Further develop the Pariahs and the interaction of the pariah gene with forces within the Imperium.

I'm quite sure, however, that none of this will ever come about because the faceless suits at GW either instructed HWMNBN to produce the currest state of the fluff, or approved his work after he produced it, and they aren't about to lose face by reversing it.

Let the emperor die!

 Jihadnik wrote:
Let the emperor die!

He died a long time ago. Rest is just a giant cover-up.

I'd have Abbadon defeat Draigo in single combat, duct tape his body to the front of the Terminus Est, and drive it right into the nearest supernova just to be rid of the Grand Master of the GK.

LordOfTheSloths wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:
Many of the people who post on the background forum have more than a passing interest in 40k fluff. What fluff would you change completely or add in? Make sure to say what you think about other peoples changes/additions.

Take every bit of fluff He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named ever wrote, especially re GK, Sisters and Necrons, take 'em out behind the barn, shoot 'em, dig a hole, set 'em on fire and then bury 'em.

More specifically:

Return GK to what they were in the Daemonhunters codex. Restore the Sisters' previous powers and give them additional religious goodies. Get RID of the idiotic Necron re-write and restore them to the nightmare-horror, implacable force they were. Further develop the Pariahs and the interaction of the pariah gene with forces within the Imperium.

I'm quite sure, however, that none of this will ever come about because the faceless suits at GW either instructed HWMNBN to produce the currest state of the fluff, or approved his work after he produced it, and they aren't about to lose face by reversing it.

What were they like in daemonhunters codex? And I agree with you. I liked having some of the sisters getting faith powers.

Make more fluff for the big ork campaigns. Like the Octarious and the wr of dakka campaigns.

 Shlazaor wrote:

LordOfTheSloths wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:
Many of the people who post on the background forum have more than a passing interest in 40k fluff. What fluff would you change completely or add in? Make sure to say what you think about other peoples changes/additions.

Take every bit of fluff He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named ever wrote, especially re GK, Sisters and Necrons, take 'em out behind the barn, shoot 'em, dig a hole, set 'em on fire and then bury 'em.

More specifically:

Return GK to what they were in the Daemonhunters codex. Restore the Sisters' previous powers and give them additional religious goodies. Get RID of the idiotic Necron re-write and restore them to the nightmare-horror, implacable force they were. Further develop the Pariahs and the interaction of the pariah gene with forces within the Imperium.

I'm quite sure, however, that none of this will ever come about because the faceless suits at GW either instructed HWMNBN to produce the currest state of the fluff, or approved his work after he produced it, and they aren't about to lose face by reversing it.

What were they like in daemonhunters codex? And I agree with you. I liked having some of the sisters getting faith powers.

IIRC in the Daemonhunters codex they were a special chapter that was affiliated with the Inquisition. They were NOT in the same category as other Space Marines chapters. They needed a bit of tweaking, but nothing like what has been done with them.

I agree with you about the GK fluff then. But I disagree on Necrons. I am not wild about the new lore but its better than it was. I try to look to each race as what they have to offer to the world. Something that extends beyond aesthetics. Chaos and tyrannids already fill the role galaxy spanning nightmare horror. The Necrons had some cool pumped up kicks but they filled a role already under control. At least they bring something new to the equation now.

 Shlazaor wrote:
I agree with you about the GK fluff then. But I disagree on Necrons. I am not wild about the new lore but its better than it was. I try to look to each race as what they have to offer to the world. Something that extends beyond aesthetics. Chaos and tyrannids already fill the role galaxy spanning nightmare horror. The Necrons had some cool pumped up kicks but they filled a role already under control. At least they bring something new to the equation now.

Ah but that's the thing though. Most players who played old crons don't like the new fluff because it's not what attracted them to the crons in the first place. The people who disliked crons for what they used to be are now happy because they are"more interesting". Personally I came into 40k through the old crons, and I don't like the new fluff at all. That's also something I would change.

I would try to tone down the heroic exploits of certain characters to more believable levels. I mean, I know this is 40k but still. Calgar holding his own against an entire ork horde for a day and night? Heck, even Maugan Ra doing the stuff he's done, even though I really like him and he's a complete badass.

I completely get where you are coming from. Let me be clear this is a big opinion issue. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. Just explaining the reason behind mine.

I agree about heroic exploits being pretty mary-sue. On one level its fun because it's fething awesome and then on the other it's like wait really that doesn't even make sense...

I still play SM as high powered special forces hitting specific objectives for devastating effect, gathering intelligence, doing key missions, protecting important points rather than one man armies.

I would remove most of the current Great Crusade/ Horus Heresy fluff to, once again, turn it into a distant time of myth and legend.

 Crimson wrote:

 Jihadnik wrote:
Let the emperor die!

He died a long time ago. Rest is just a giant cover-up.

Alpharius sits on the throne.

And I like the newcrons.

I feel the changes to the Necron fluff were fairly necessary to help diversify them: allowing individuals to better personalise their own army/dynasty and thereby improving collectability. Which, understandably, is in GW's interest.

As for fluff change? The standard no-Draigo for me.

Behemoth hits a couple of decades later than it did, leaving time for the Damocles Gulf Crusade to reach its inevitable conclusion before the Imperium has more important minor-threats to deal with.

Space Marines are reduced to nothing but force concentrating spec ops, and placed under the authority of human officers.

Although I understand the changes to the Necron fluff, I think it effectively killed the line of thinking about the void dragon on mars. So, I'd change that.

Also, I'd kill off the Emprah and have Malcador be the one sitting on the throne directing the GK / Inquisition through psychic communion. Seems to me that malcador was an awesome psyker so it would make sense that he could only handle the astronomicon plus a little bit more.

 Shlazaor wrote:
I agree with you about the GK fluff then. But I disagree on Necrons. I am not wild about the new lore but its better than it was. I try to look to each race as what they have to offer to the world. Something that extends beyond aesthetics. Chaos and tyrannids already fill the role galaxy spanning nightmare horror. The Necrons had some cool pumped up kicks but they filled a role already under control. At least they bring something new to the equation now.

That's not how I feel about it.

The old Necron codex introduced the war in heaven, the Old Ones, and all the fluff that connectioned the krork, the eldar, the Slann, humanity, the Mechanicus, and even Chaos. It tied the universe together and gave a sense of impending...worseness. The C'Tan felt like a threat where Chaos felt like a joke (and still does). If you read Xenology, the sense of doom and paranoia created by the oldcron fluff is palpable and delicious. They were like the Eddorians from Lensmen and the Shadows from Babylon 5.

I had no interest in the Eldar or the Orks before I read the Necron codex. Now I have small armies of both, plus converted Lizardmen/Slann and Necrons. There was so much room to explore the repercussions of the War in Heaven (Necron version) and how ancient civilizations were maneuvering their pieces across a chess board of eons.

Now the Necrons are like Russia. They used to be a scary superpower before most of us were born, but today we take delight in their leader's goofy antics.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:
I agree with you about the GK fluff then. But I disagree on Necrons. I am not wild about the new lore but its better than it was. I try to look to each race as what they have to offer to the world. Something that extends beyond aesthetics. Chaos and tyrannids already fill the role galaxy spanning nightmare horror. The Necrons had some cool pumped up kicks but they filled a role already under control. At least they bring something new to the equation now.

That's not how I feel about it.

The old Necron codex introduced the war in heaven, the Old Ones, and all the fluff that connectioned the krork, the eldar, the Slann, humanity, the Mechanicus, and even Chaos. It tied the universe together and gave a sense of impending...worseness. The C'Tan felt like a threat where Chaos felt like a joke (and still does). If you read Xenology, the sense of doom and paranoia created by the oldcron fluff is palpable and delicious. They were like the Eddorians from Lensmen and the Shadows from Babylon 5.

I had no interest in the Eldar or the Orks before I read the Necron codex. Now I have small armies of both, plus converted Lizardmen/Slann and Necrons. There was so much room to explore the repercussions of the War in Heaven (Necron version) and how ancient civilizations were maneuvering their pieces across a chess board of eons.

Now the Necrons are like Russia. They used to be a scary superpower before most of us were born, but today we take delight in their leader's goofy antics.

Except they simply had the same threat level as the Tyranids, no more, no less. The C'tan felt like hamstrung concepts in a scenario where they shouldn't have been, and felt so out of place.. (Sowing FEAR into the entire universe except for one race? Seriously?) What little there was felt mary-sueish, they were Metal Tyranids in the method of fear and sense of dread except they could not lose, ever (once again, a mary-sue trait in that there was no beating the Necrons, even Tyranids held some hope to it). With the direction of being simple automatons being used as puppets by physical gods because there was nothing to the minions. They were pawns, they were nothing but "Move X, destroy X here." because of old code..

First I love the Babylon 5 reference. Two more things.

1. The newcrons still have all of that old fluff. Not like they lost it. They also aren't russia. They are a resurgent power gaining terrible strength. Just not totally united.

2. I agree with zebio. Not to sound repetitive but oldcrons were an asthetically different tyranid.

I loved the old crons and didn't feel like they were at all like nids besides the base distinction of a lack of individual personality. It really upsets me in sci fi that we seem to always want to impose human traits on aliens. The reason I like the nid fluff and the old corn fluff is that they are alien inhuman automata who aren't doing it for sadistic pleasure or power but just because they can. I like having a few opponents round who's modus operandi is more than "phenomenal cosmic powa muahahaha!"

Secondly I'd get rid of all wards idiotic Mary sueisms, Draigo could be a cool character if he was removed from the warp and toned down massively. I'd remove the inferences that the flaws within the BA gene seed are anything to do with chaos, as well as the necron tea party and the overstated "I vant to saack your blaaad" stuff.

Yes but we understand why nids are doing what they are. To feed, to survive, to maintain life. The crons are (were) the complete opposite in that they wanted to destroy all life and nobody knew why.

 Lord Rogukiel wrote:
Yes but we understand why nids are doing what they are. To feed, to survive, to maintain life. The crons are (were) the complete opposite in that they wanted to destroy all life and nobody knew why.

http://www.realcostofprisons.org/comix/barrett/cause_i_can.jpg

 Lord Rogukiel wrote:
Yes but we understand why nids are doing what they are. To feed, to survive, to maintain life. The crons are (were) the complete opposite in that they wanted to destroy all life and nobody knew why.

Because we know why in the fluff, they were ordered to by the C'tan. Essentially Evil Robot Given Evil Order by Evil Gods that Tricked them...Evilly.

It really upsets me in sci fi that we seem to always want to impose human traits on aliens. The reason I like the nid fluff and the old corn fluff is that they are alien inhuman automata who aren't doing it for sadistic pleasure or power but just because they can

Because they were given orders to by their gods, and they kept with the task.

like having a few opponents round who's modus operandi is more than "phenomenal cosmic powa muahahaha!"

Well, the C'tan really are just "Feeding off the life-force of the entire galaxy", which the necrons are helping facilitate, along with destruction of the warp.

Personally, I think - whilst I don't like much of their new fluff - the idea that they rose up against gods is COOL.

 Just Dave wrote:
Personally, I think - whilst I don't like much of their new fluff - the idea that they rose up against gods is COOL.

I agree. And once again it adds to the versatility. We already have ruthless killers who follow evil gods. I also have to say I prefer a more realistic 40k. Instead of ten supermen taking control of a city I'd have a hundred space marine attached to ten thousand imperial guardsman do the same thing. It's no less epic but it feels less mary-sue.

I don't really like Necrons, new or old, although the old ones were slightly better.

But the whole army just feels like a such huge missed opportunity to me. If GW wanted to an army of machine-men dedicated to the destruction of the Imperium, there would have been so much better way to do it. Men of Iron already existed in the fluff, and connected to the Imperium's history and fear of technology awesomely. It could have been glorious!

Avatars of Khaine being W40K's 'Dead Eye Duncan'.

The watering down of Necrons (what was wrong with the old fluff?)

Alpha Legion being swayed to turn against humanity merely by the use of xenos witchcraft.

The way that Fulgrim turned to chaos (I would've preferred it if he became tainted early on in his life, where the daemon spoke to him/consoled him in his moments of doubt or self reflection, staying almost dormant to evade discovery...Or something along those lines).

I would make Ferris manus turn to chaos.

I would make lorgar less of a pansy in the heresy era. Marduk would be dark apostle.
Leviathan would conquer ultramar
Ghazkull would have taken apocalypse permanently
the emperor would be DEAD
Horus would have ascended into daemonhood
Tau would make more sense, some how
Ciaphis would be an even bigger dodge the bullet lol character
Yarrick would kill ghazkull finally
Snikrot would be a more respektin ork
The grey knights would serve the emprah with undying allegience..... without annihilating whole innocent planets in the process
The cult mechanicus would have a second civil war
Eldrad wouldn't be slaaneshs whipping boy

And about 500 other things.

 Lord Rogukiel wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:
I agree with you about the GK fluff then. But I disagree on Necrons. I am not wild about the new lore but its better than it was. I try to look to each race as what they have to offer to the world. Something that extends beyond aesthetics. Chaos and tyrannids already fill the role galaxy spanning nightmare horror. The Necrons had some cool pumped up kicks but they filled a role already under control. At least they bring something new to the equation now.

Ah but that's the thing though. Most players who played old crons don't like the new fluff because it's not what attracted them to the crons in the first place. The people who disliked crons for what they used to be are now happy because they are"more interesting". Personally I came into 40k through the old crons, and I don't like the new fluff at all. That's also something I would change.

Well stated. That's exactly the reason I quit playing Necrons, and part of what drove me to pretty much retire 40K: Tomb Kings in Space is not what I bought into. Heck, I have a WHFB Tomb Kings army and I don't even like what they did to that army, let alone importing all the worst features of it into 40K.

Boring really but anything that moves the fluff on significantly or perhaps introduces some new races/factions/history/events.
Recently read the 6th ed DA codex and the fact that they are still hunting the Fallen etc I found really tedious.
I have the Angles of Death codex and really nothing has changed since then.
Very disappointing.

Great artwork though