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I find the Dark eldars got a bit of the short end of the stick in 6th so here are a few changes that I think could make them more worthwhile


Overall rule Change

Power from pain second levels gives +1Ini on charge as well as +1 Str on charge
Third level adds +1 Toughness on top of Fearless

If a Master Haemonculi is in the army (Urien Rakarth counts as one) then Talos are considered Elite



Fighters


Archon
- Huskblade @25pts (-10pts), phantasm grenade launcher @ 10pts (-15pts), Blast Pistols @ 10pts(-5pts)
can get a 3+ArSv for 10pts, can get Agoniser that wounds on a 3+ @ 20pts, Soul Trap cost 15pts(+5pts) but gives +1 str for every Character the Archon kills and +3str for every Independant Character and Unique Fighter he kills

Urien Rakarth
- Eternal Warrior, 180pts(-10pts)

Drahzar
- 5++

Kheradruakh, the Decapitator
- 4++, +1 Toughness, gives infiltrate to mandrakes he joins (yes he's an independant character)

Mandrakes
- can shoot without any pain token, 16pts (+1pts)

Incubies
- Klaivex get +1Str, DemiKlaive cost 10pts (-10pts) and Onslaught cost 10pts (-5pts)

Hekatrix Bloodbride
- get +1Ws, champion can get a grenade that makes the assaulted unit incapable of overwatch for 10pts

Whyches
- get +1Ws, champion can get a grenade that makes the assaulted unit incapable of overwatch for 10pts

Scourges
- Lose Ghostplate Armour, come back to having Kabalite Armour but get Shrouded instead ( I think this would make the scourges a real terror, staying in the back in cover would make them relatively hard to kill. then if anything gets close you can fly away pretty fast)

Hellion
- 14pts each (-2pts), phantasm grenade launcher @10pts (-10pts)

Reaver Jetbikes
- Cluster Caltrops @ 15pts (-5pts)

Talos
- Extra close combat weapon @ 10pts (-5pts), Twin linked Dark Lance replacing TL Splinter Cannon @ 15pts


What do you think Dakkanaught?

hmm, some interesting ideas but I feel like doing this would shift the focus of the armies a bit, However the problem with some of the rules that your propose is the fact that I still wouldn't use many of these units unless I was making something fluffy, here's my opinion on things:

Huskblade is really really good, i'd say it keeps it's normal point value. instead of PGL why not just give him grenades to begin with, blast pistol meh kinda your choice for that one, 3+ also meh he should have the 2++ anyways. I like the idea of the soul trap but i'm not sure how well it would work and then it also brings up the question of swarm units

Urien should be like 150, eternal warrior? i guess but he's a pus bag, there's no chance of him standing up after getting hit by something str10, i'd never use him

Drazhar? how about a 5++ dodge instead of a straight up 5++

Kheradruakh, leave him be, he's merely there to represent the Khorne affiliations in the Dark Eldar society (why else is he collecting skulls?)

Mandrakes are the ones that need a pain token to shoot not the Incubi, along with that, giving them preferred enemy would make their shooting attack unreal so i'd be all for that as it would make them actually usable but i'm not sure about the 4++ maybe just give them +1T. I say keep stealth and infiltrate but that's just me

Incubi getting their old helmet shooting back would be SO AWESOME, otherwise i'd say their point value at the moment is pretty good

Hekatrix...seems a bit overpowered but it'd have to be play tested, fluffwise maybe a sensual overload, hallucinogen grenade or something

Scourges...you could always just make ghostplate armor give shrouded as the name implies that you're like a ghost, that'd be interesting

Hellions at 14 pts seems a bit much as they already got a nice little addition with Hammer of Wrath, it means they can each make around 6 attacks a turn, 2 from splinter fire, 1 from Hammer of Wrath and 3 from the 1 base, +1 from charging, +1 from glaive and at initiative 5 it takes out a considerable chunk before getting hit themselves. then rinse and repeat with hit and run

Reaver jetbikes, i'd say yes

Talos i think is already pretty good, i'd say keep it as is.

just my 2 cents

you might be right about the dodge on Drazhar, I like it

I also like the idea of mandrakes having T4 (switched the changes for incubies, thx for mentionning that, that was an error)
maybe making Mandrakes be 17 points with T4 and be able to shoot right from the start.
Kheradruahk is almost cool, I like the idea of a super mandrake. I'm sure we could make awesome conversion for him. maybe make him a bit cheaper (something like 10pts) instead of giving infiltration on the mandrakes he might join, keeping the 4++ and the T4.

you might be right about the Hellion but I think that they are still a bit too expensive since we almost never see them, maybe a 1pt decrease instead of 2pts.

Talos are super cool but I find they have 2 problems that keep me from wanting to field them, first they take up a HS slot which is so important to Dark Eldars, a Ravager is so tempting that it pretty much always takes the position. so allowing the Master Haemonculie to field them as a Elite slot would fix this and give a good reason for the master haemonculi to actually be fielded. Second he is a slow lumbering tool with short range weaponry in a very fast army so he doesnt really fit well giving him a Dark lance potential would allow him to do something as he is reaching the enemy, I agree that he isnt bad, he just doesnt fit well with how i see the Dark eldars work, the changes i am proposing would keep him almost the same way as he was just with a few more options for versatilitys sake. also the extra close combat weapon was a bit too expensive.

Overall rule Change

Power from pain second levels gives +1Ini on charge as well as +1 Str on charge
Third level adds +1 Toughness on top of Fearless

If a Master Haemonculi is in the army (Urien Rakarth counts as one) then Talos are considered Elite

I would love that sooo much, maybe just Chronoses though since that seems a bit more fair...
Seriously though who would field Chronos when everything else in HS spot is soo much better than it...

Archon
- Huskblade @25pts (-10pts), phantasm grenade launcher @ 10pts (-15pts), Blast Pistols @ 10pts(-5pts)
can get a 3+ArSv for 10pts, can get Agoniser that wounds on a 3+ @ 20pts, Soul Trap cost 15pts(+5pts) but gives +1 str for every Character the Archon kills and +3str for every Independant Character and Unique Fighter he kills

Point cost it's actually ok, hard to justify what should cost more and less, husk blade is pretty good as it is...

Urien Rakarth
- Eternal Warrior, 180pts(-10pts)

180 is still a bit too much for him, unless he gets the Elite thingy rule too

Drahzar
- 5++

Never used him so can't say much about it...

Kheradruakh, the Decapitator
- 4++, +1 Toughness, gives infiltrate to mandrakes he joins (yes he's an independant character)

Seriously I really think that he should be something like that, I feel like it was a typo to forget writing him in as an IC...
I can't even use my Mandrakes except being counters or objectives...

Mandrakes
- can shoot without any pain token, 16pts (+1pts)

Removing the pain token restriction to shoot is a must, it's hard enough to kill something in CC now with DE units that giving them that is a pretty good idea.

Incubies
- Klaivex get +1Str, DemiKlaive cost 10pts (-10pts) and Onslaught cost 10pts (-5pts)

Would make it actually more reasonable to take this upgrade as it's pretty costly right now...

Hekatrix Bloodbride
- get +1Ws, champion can get a grenade that makes the assaulted unit incapable of overwatch for 10pts

Whyches
- get +1Ws, champion can get a grenade that makes the assaulted unit incapable of overwatch for 10pts

That would be pretty cool, so they don't just die to overwatch, or let them use the 4++ within 6"~12" of shooting.

Scourges
- Lose Ghostplate Armour, come back to having Kabalite Armour but get Shrouded instead ( I think this would make the scourges a real terror, staying in the back in cover would make them relatively hard to kill. then if anything gets close you can fly away pretty fast)

That and make them relentless, what's the point of carrying a gun you can't fire?
DE are meant to be mobile not stand there and shoot...especially when Trueborns do it much better than scourges for a cheaper price....

Hellion
- 14pts each (-2pts), phantasm grenade launcher @10pts (-10pts)

Maybe just -1pts, Hellions are ok with Baron, by themselves? not so much...
HoW on them doesn't help as they are S3 anyways... so not going to wound much...

Reaver Jetbikes
- Cluster Caltrops @ 15pts (-5pts)

Yeah, I haven't really figured out how to use them properly....

Talos
- Extra close combat weapon @ 10pts (-5pts), Twin linked Dark Lance replacing TL Splinter Cannon @ 15pts

That kinda removes his ability to have a ranged shooting attack for infantry,
Just give him the option to replace it or an upgrade.

Not sure why you think DE got the short end of the stick in 6th. Mine have been tearing it up. Winning a few tournaments and doing extremely well in others. The key, as always is our vehicles, which are now a lot more durable.

I think Wyches completely ignoring overwatch for 10pts is a bit much

Maybe have it fail on a certain roll? (My goodness I think wych overwatch rules are just as common as Mandrake fixes!)

i'm not trolling, but Do Dark Eldar need tweeks?!...

I was always under the impression that they where pretty good own they are now.

Well yeah 6th took a Dung shot on Venoms spam lists, with HP rule, but other then that...

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
i'm not trolling, but Do Dark Eldar need tweeks?!...

I was always under the impression that they where pretty good own they are now.

Well yeah 6th took a Dung shot on Venoms spam lists, with HP rule, but other then that...

Hey look this is the propossed rules forum

We get like 20 Space Marine buffs a week

I was actually debating making a Dark Eldar fandex to fix some of the problems with the book. Some of the ideas I had:

POWER FROM PAIN
Add more ways to get Pain Tokens, the primary example of an addition being that if one of your Characters kills an enemy character in a Challenge, that IC or the squad the Character belongs to gets a Pain Token.

DODGE
New overall special rule. I never liked the fact that Dodge saves were just reworded invulnerable saves, so I figured this way would be more unique. Dodge provides a cover save equal to the first value in brackets beside the special rule (for example: Dodge (5+/4+) would provide a 5+ cover save against ranged attacks). When in cover a Dark Eldar unit may either use their Dodge cover save or get +1 to the terrain's cover save. When in close combat, Dark Eldar with Dodge special rule get an invulnerable save equal to the second value in brackets beside the special rule.

Standard Wyches would get Dodge (5+/4+)

COMBAT DRUGS
Get rid of this special rule and replace it. One of two options for replacing it: simply give each Wych unit the ability to purchase their own Combat Drugs OR when you purchase a Succubi you get to choose a single Combat Drug and all units with the Wych special rule get the benefit (even if your Succubus is killed). Would make Succubus' a bit more useful too. Frankly I like the latter option.

KABALITE WARRIORS
These guys need something. They're supposed to be a strictly fire support unit (as opposed to the Wyches melee combat focus), but they're simply too frail and don't pack that much of a punch for a ranged-focused unit. There's quite a few things that could be done with this unit, either one or several of the options below.
- Decrease their points cost.
- Raise their Armour save to 4+ or allow them to purchase better armour.
- Allow them to take a weapon option for every 5 Warriors instead of every 10.
- More heavy/special weapon options.

MANDRAKES
These guys need something. They're just boring, uninspired, and aren't very worth their points, yet lore-wise they are awesome. They should get some crazy special rules that can only be used when Night Fighting is in effect. Also their Bale Blast should get better the more Pain Tokens they have.


I had other ideas, but those are just some of the major examples.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
i'm not trolling, but Do Dark Eldar need tweeks?!...

I was always under the impression that they where pretty good own they are now.

Well yeah 6th took a Dung shot on Venoms spam lists, with HP rule, but other then that...

Dark Eldar aren't very strong right now (except against Tyranids, whom they absolutely murder), take it from a Dark Eldar player. Its not that our Codex is "bad" by any means, but to say that our Codex is good is to not have played with them or against them very often. In order to play a valid Dark Eldar list (one that even has any hope of winning or being competitive) we have to take very specific units. Nobody here is saying the Codex needs a complete overhaul, but there are some elements which do require attention to bring more units into a light of validity instead of us DE players constantly getting pigeonholed into the same few units every game.

 Marik Law wrote:

KABALITE WARRIORS
These guys need something. They're supposed to be a strictly fire support unit (as opposed to the Wyches melee combat focus), but they're simply too frail and don't pack that much of a punch for a ranged-focused unit. There's quite a few things that could be done with this unit, either one or several of the options below.
- Decrease their points cost.
- Raise their Armour save to 4+ or allow them to purchase better armour.
- Allow them to take a weapon option for every 5 Warriors instead of every 10.
- More heavy/special weapon options.

Craftworld eldar players would give their teeth to replace their guardians with kabalite warriors

(oh wait they can now with allies )


Anyways I was actually curious about my first boast about wyches and mandrakes.

So far its 4 mandrake topics (not including general dark eldar fixes methinks) and 3 wych topic. (yes, 1 for each was mine )

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Marik Law wrote:

KABALITE WARRIORS
These guys need something. They're supposed to be a strictly fire support unit (as opposed to the Wyches melee combat focus), but they're simply too frail and don't pack that much of a punch for a ranged-focused unit. There's quite a few things that could be done with this unit, either one or several of the options below.
- Decrease their points cost.
- Raise their Armour save to 4+ or allow them to purchase better armour.
- Allow them to take a weapon option for every 5 Warriors instead of every 10.
- More heavy/special weapon options.

Craftworld eldar players would give their teeth to replace their guardians with kabalite warriors

(oh wait they can now with allies )

The problem right now stems from the fact that Wyches are, point-for-point, simply far far better than Kabalite Warriors. Also, Craftworld Eldar Codex would give their teeth for just a better Codex in general, which they'll hopefully get later this year. =3

 Marik Law wrote:

The problem right now stems from the fact that Wyches are, point-for-point, simply far far better than Kabalite Warriors.

I thought at 6th everyone abandoned wyches for warriors? Or did people stop whining?

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Marik Law wrote:

The problem right now stems from the fact that Wyches are, point-for-point, simply far far better than Kabalite Warriors.

I thought at 6th everyone abandoned wyches for warriors? Or did people stop whining?

Not that I've seen. Wyches are still far superior because of their 4+ Invulnerable save, just that their trusted transports got a bit more brittle so people started whining.

No they started whining because you lose 1 or 2 to Overwatch which makes it harder to tarpit with squads of 5 but like...yeah whatever, I like the dodge becoming a cover save and you can't really dodge a flamethrower to the face, and they're supposed to have insane reflexes so if they can dodge a power fist they can dodge a bullet. Although I'm still waiting for the day a Succubus goes all Neo and her entire Wych squad behind her dies (LOS)

Fluff wise Kabalite warriors get close to the enemy to suck on pain more and to gloat in the faces of the dying

De are strong if you don't deviate from maybe two builds/exploits. If you want to have a mixed force or assault, it's very, very handicapped.

A few fixes that could make it more flexible:

-Light-alloy construction: Raiders and Venom transports that suffer an Explodes! result inflict S3 hits on their passengers.

-Wyches: The Dodge mechanic offered above is quite interesting. I was leaning toward just letting their 4++ apply to Overwatch myself, but that also works.

-Mandrakes: Either give them an extra CCW, or make their shooting attack Assault X, with X being their number of pain tokens +1.

-Talos Pain Engine: Gains Fleet.

- Voidraven Bomber, Razorwing Fighter: Both gain the Vector Dancer USR.

How about giving the Succubus the rending rule?

mandrakes, mandrakes, mandrakes, what do they count as for your army?


I agree with the 5+ cover save thing, makes them much more survivable, or just give them shrouded~

Good changes overall. Even taken on the whole, this would work toward making the DE more versatile.