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Hey,

I've always had a problem with a Wych's 4++ in close combat. Take, for example, a Libby with Null Zone. It suddenly means that they have to dodge 2 times rather than once.

I would rather have it so all enemies hit on 5s or 6s.

Thoughts?

It's fine as it is. You want to change a perfectly fine rule because 2 Psychic Powers in the game make it a bit worse.

At least they dont halve the weapons skill of people who attack them anymore.

Don't change something that isn't broken.

Fluff does not equal game.

Just a question. It seems a bit odd that they suddenly get better armour by running into combat is all : /

BlapBlapBlap wrote:It seems a bit odd that they suddenly get better armour by running into combat is all : /

Their armour save doesnt change at all, they still have 6+ armour, but in CC they're granted a 4++ due to being able to dodge. They don't get the 4++ at range because its considerably harder to dodge a bullet than it is to dodge a sword

But can they dodge a wrench?

Gorechild wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:It seems a bit odd that they suddenly get better armour by running into combat is all : /

Their armour save doesnt change at all, they still have 6+ armour, but in CC they're granted a 4++ due to being able to dodge. They don't get the 4++ at range because its considerably harder to dodge a bullet than it is to dodge a sword

Not for Ragnar Blackmane apparently. Although it would have made more sense for them to just give him a Belt of Russ, but oh well.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Hey,

I've always had a problem with a Wych's 4++ in close combat. Take, for example, a Libby with Null Zone. It suddenly means that they have to dodge 2 times rather than once.

I would rather have it so all enemies hit on 5s or 6s.

Thoughts?

Wyches aren't the best things to take against marines. For ten points they don't have the numbers or punching power even with striking forst to take out marines (good combat drugs can change this admittedly). Its better to just shoot marines to death with kabalites and disintegrator cannons; or better still some incubi. My wyhces work best against guard, orks. But have done very poorly against marines, chaos marines and especially necrons due to WBB. If this rule were to change then they might benefit at taking down one army but would then be too good at killing the other armies relative to points.

Although I do think Lelith should have a base 3+ inv save for a 175pt character who is str3 and can't get combat drugs.

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball...

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Just a question. It seems a bit odd that they suddenly get better armour by running into combat is all : /

They don't get better armor. the save in CC is not armor, nor is it some sort of shield. It is simply their ability to dodge blows in CC.

I actually think there should be a separate save for this type of... save, as a Libby can't "nullify" your ability to dodge, and a Swarmlord can't penetrate your energy shield (force the re-roll) if you aren't even hit in the first place, which is what the Wych 4++ is. Them passing means the blow didn't touch them, the sword didn't even scratch them, or the pistol was blocked in CC.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Gorechild wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:It seems a bit odd that they suddenly get better armour by running into combat is all : /

Their armour save doesnt change at all, they still have 6+ armour, but in CC they're granted a 4++ due to being able to dodge. They don't get the 4++ at range because its considerably harder to dodge a bullet than it is to dodge a sword

Not for Ragnar Blackmane apparently. Although it would have made more sense for them to just give him a Belt of Russ, but oh well.

Ragnar originally had a Dodge save, which worked like a force field, but was not a force field equipment.

They're just being consistent with previous fluff even though the game mechanic is the same now.

in 3rd there was alot of confusion over "dodge" saves and reg invun saves, so they just clarrified it to be exactly the same, lets notgo back to that confusion

Then say in the unit entry that this save cannot be re-rolled or bypassed due to any other special abilities/psychic powers or wargear. Really, it isn't that hard, and we don't really need a whole new save type.

Honestly, they could just change it to a 4+ cover save in CC, because that's more like that it actually is.

McNinja wrote:Then say in the unit entry that this save cannot be re-rolled or bypassed due to any other special abilities/psychic powers or wargear. Really, it isn't that hard, and we don't really need a whole new save type.

Honestly, they could just change it to a 4+ cover save in CC, because that's more like that it actually is.

But that would completely contradict where it says you can never get cover saves in CC. I think it works fine as it is, theres theres a few WTF moments fluff-wise, but these problems are so uncommon that it would be insane to create a new type of save or change the wording so it completely contradicts the BRB to fix those few bizarre circumstances.

Gorechild wrote:

McNinja wrote:Then say in the unit entry that this save cannot be re-rolled or bypassed due to any other special abilities/psychic powers or wargear. Really, it isn't that hard, and we don't really need a whole new save type.

Honestly, they could just change it to a 4+ cover save in CC, because that's more like that it actually is.

But that would completely contradict where it says you can never get cover saves in CC. I think it works fine as it is, theres theres a few WTF moments fluff-wise, but these problems are so uncommon that it would be insane to create a new type of save or change the wording so it completely contradicts the BRB to fix those few bizarre circumstances.

Oh no? I'm not seeing the problem. The codices always trump the rulebook in terms of specific > general. Generally, covers can't be had in cc. However, if the codex says Wyches have a cover save in cc, then they have a cover save in cc. Also, cover saves more accurately match how the save works, ie dodging/not being hit, which is what a cover save is.