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Reading the book right now, already I can see the Grimore of True Names having potential to be near-gamebreaking, especially if you get lucky with it and other greater gifts. Imagine a bloodthirster with a 3++ save with either 4+ FNP, or the ability to re-roll failed ++ saves. Scary

On the subject of Khorne, it is just me or did mono-god lists just become viable again? Especially Khorne lists, now that BLs are so cheap and they get a super cheap S8 cannon that ignores cover.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Im going with no, too random, your tactics mean nothing if it goes stupid on you, the entire point of list building is to lower the reliance on luck.

Im sure something will pop up thats not half bad.

Sure...

Because there's absolutely nothing competitive about a Herald of Slaanesh w/Greater Etherblade + Lesser roll + Steed + Exalted Locus of Beguilement leading a squad of Fiends/Seekers.
I mean, she only makes every single non-3++ character or Shadowfield Archon weep. God forbid she actually gets the Cleaving Blow roll for her lesser gift! Oh dear, now every 6 to-hit she rolls is S9! (and of corse, w/re-roll all missed to-hit rolls she'll NEVER roll 6's...)
And of corse, a unit with rending re-rolling missed to-hit rolls will just bounce off of 2+ saves every single time...

Yep, useless codex is useless... (aparently)

That's it folks, the intertubes have spoken! Time to sell our armies and go play Longwang spam or a Flying french Bakery!

She actually becomes strength 10... she becomes str 5 with greater sword


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Reading the book right now, already I can see the Grimore of True Names having potential to be near-gamebreaking, especially if you get lucky with it and other greater gifts. Imagine a bloodthirster with a 3++ save with either 4+ FNP, or the ability to re-roll failed ++ saves. Scary

On the subject of Khorne, it is just me or did mono-god lists just become viable again? Especially Khorne lists, now that BLs are so cheap and they get a super cheap S8 cannon that ignores cover.

Its pretty abusable item... you can give kairos a +2 invul (plus extra psychic crap)

and you can make a GUO with possibly a +3 invulnerable save (rerollable) and +4 feel no pain... with the biomancy crap to make him STR 9, T10, it will not die, and relentless.
remember kiddies.... its also a monstrous creature with eternal warrior.

Well, I just watched one of my friends take Oracle with 3 Flying Daemon Princes of Tzeentch, 2 squads of pink horrors and 2 Changlings.

There were so many psychic powers to roll for, it was disgusting, and powers that buffed daemon princes to stronger and tougher, combined with warp storm that made inv saves better, and an invisible daemon prince.

My other friend who was playing Dark Angels had no fun whatsoever. The game was called over at round 3.

Competitive and so complicated someone will want to punch you in the face, yes they accomplished this.

 Generalian wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Im going with no, too random, your tactics mean nothing if it goes stupid on you, the entire point of list building is to lower the reliance on luck.

Im sure something will pop up thats not half bad.

Sure...

Because there's absolutely nothing competitive about a Herald of Slaanesh w/Greater Etherblade + Lesser roll + Steed + Exalted Locus of Beguilement leading a squad of Fiends/Seekers.
I mean, she only makes every single non-3++ character or Shadowfield Archon weep. God forbid she actually gets the Cleaving Blow roll for her lesser gift! Oh dear, now every 6 to-hit she rolls is S9! (and of corse, w/re-roll all missed to-hit rolls she'll NEVER roll 6's...)
And of corse, a unit with rending re-rolling missed to-hit rolls will just bounce off of 2+ saves every single time...

Yep, useless codex is useless... (aparently)

That's it folks, the intertubes have spoken! Time to sell our armies and go play Longwang spam or a Flying french Bakery!

She actually becomes strength 10... she becomes str 5 with greater sword


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Reading the book right now, already I can see the Grimore of True Names having potential to be near-gamebreaking, especially if you get lucky with it and other greater gifts. Imagine a bloodthirster with a 3++ save with either 4+ FNP, or the ability to re-roll failed ++ saves. Scary

On the subject of Khorne, it is just me or did mono-god lists just become viable again? Especially Khorne lists, now that BLs are so cheap and they get a super cheap S8 cannon that ignores cover.

Its pretty abusable item... you can give kairos a +2 invul (plus extra psychic crap)

and you can make a GUO with possibly a +3 invulnerable save (rerollable) and +4 feel no pain... with the biomancy crap to make him STR 9, T10, it will not die, and relentless.
remember kiddies.... its also a monstrous creature with eternal warrior.

If someone did that to their GOU, I would just throw my Belial model at them and hope it kills them, would still have a better chance than me killing that thing!

GUO don't have eternal warrior, one plucky grey knight trooper wounds him and he's dead. Sigh. The only thing in the book with EW is Skulltaker(and I think he loses it to that one GK power that stops demonic gifts)

Also what upgrade for plague flies do people think is the best for the points? Skulls(12" Assault 2, poisoned 4+), proboscis(poisoned 3+), or stingers(1 attack causes ID)as they all cost 5 points.

magicafiend wrote:
GUO don't have eternal warrior, one plucky grey knight trooper wounds him and he's dead. Sigh. The only thing in the book with EW is Skulltaker(and I think he loses it to that one GK power that stops demonic gifts)

Also what upgrade for plague flies do people think is the best for the points? Skulls(12" Assault 2, poisoned 4+), proboscis(poisoned 3+), or stingers(1 attack causes ID)as they all cost 5 points.

Iron arm. Eternal warrior.

WAT NOW!

I never use psychic powers and I did not know Iron Arm gave EW. That is excellent. Any thoughts on the plague flies?

magicafiend wrote:
I never use psychic powers and I did not know Iron Arm gave EW. That is excellent. Any thoughts on the plague flies?

How can you not use psychic powers? They are amazing and are now an integral part of the game.

magicafiend wrote:
I never use psychic powers and I did not know Iron Arm gave EW. That is excellent. Any thoughts on the plague flies?

Fast, tough units that are shrouded and glance vehicles on a 6, what's not to like?

So we are working on trying to break the codex and all we can see right now are a view obvious ones...

The dual soulgrinder behind an aegis with mark of nurgle and phlgem
(+3 cover with skyfire and ridiculous shooting)
(khorne herald manning the auto cannon with his BS 7)

The herald of slaanesh combo everyone is talking about...

The unkillable GUO that is created with biomancy, two greater powers, and the grimore of true names

The fact that you can take 9 exalted seeker chariots for only 675 points... which can easily put out over 50 rending attacks

The unit of 20 pink horrors in killteams....which gives you 20 mastery level 1 psykers since they all count as individual units

The Beasts are nurgle gunline! Just put them in front of a unit of havocs and if anything gets to close to assault... the beasts charge them on their assault phase and hold them up for another round of shooting (plus overwatch)

OH! and the most important one...

If you combine the psyker battle squad with slannesh pavane... you can one shot entire squads of everything.



Right now.... mono nurgle looks to be the nastiest crap I have ever seen.

Also, we did some averages and we can safely say that because of all the random crap.... all games including chaos daemons will take an extra 20min to complete... even if you know the book by heart.

 Generalian wrote:
Right now.... mono nurgle looks to be the nastiest crap I have ever seen.

ANY mono-god list is looking nasty if built right:

Khorne gives you, for 200 points, 20 models dishing out 40 S5 ap3 attacks on the charge, 60 if you put a herald in with them. Heralds themselves seem specifically built to destroy anyone stupid enough to challenge them. Then there is the new bloodthirster stats, the S8 cannon that ignores cover, and the fact that it is free to make a Khorne souldgrinder, saving you 15 points.

Tzeentch gives you the to spam Divination powers, either with cheap heralds or powerful DPs and LoCs. Fateweaver could potentially have a re-rollable 2++ save meaning he will never die, to say nothing of what pink horrors can do with all the prescience floating around.

Slaanesh: One word, RENDING. Cheap as hell rending! MCs and Vehicles with armor 12 and below now have to fear even your basic troops, which with heralds stuck in them go at initiative TEN. Cheap as hell seekers mean your opponent won't be putting any stuff near the edges.

Then there is Nurgle, with troops that have 2+ cover saves and FNP if you put a herald with them, fast tough flies that can glance vehicles on a 6 (necrons who?) and of course, have the above mentioned GUO that WILL NEVER DIE.

What I'm thinking is, if mono lists are already this powerful, what happenes when you mix and match the best from each?

 Generalian wrote:

magicafiend wrote:
I never use psychic powers and I did not know Iron Arm gave EW. That is excellent. Any thoughts on the plague flies?

How can you not use psychic powers? They are amazing and are now an integral part of the game.

I play Daemons and Orks, I never got the chance until now...

Kairos cant get a +2 rerollable.
He can get a +2, but it can't be rerollable.

 Generalian wrote:
Kairos cant get a +2 rerollable.
He can get a +2, but it can't be rerollable.

Umm, yes he can, all tzeentch daemons re-roll saves of one

How much are beasts of nurgle? Do they have upgrades?

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Generalian wrote:
Kairos cant get a +2 rerollable.
He can get a +2, but it can't be rerollable.

Umm, yes he can, all tzeentch daemons re-roll saves of one

Ahh. So its almost the exact same thing... since he never fails unless he rolls double ones
That's pretty awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Budzerker wrote:
How much are beasts of nurgle? Do they have upgrades?

Only 52 points.

Budzerker wrote:
How much are beasts of nurgle? Do they have upgrades?

never mind someone beat me to it

To be honest, after seeing the book upclose and more of the models for the second time, I can say that there are going to be some really powerful Mono lists and absolutely sick mixed lists.

TBH, I just want the models, I don't think there is one I don't like.

Except maybe the Slaaneshi Lawnmower of Death.

Any I digress from the other reason I was posting...

Does anyone else think that this book has a lot of hidden Gems inside it - ala Heldrake?

Puscifer wrote:
To be honest, after seeing the book upclose and more of the models for the second time, I can say that there are going to be some really powerful Mono lists and absolutely sick mixed lists.

TBH, I just want the models, I don't think there is one I don't like.

Except maybe the Slaaneshi Lawnmower of Death.

Any I digress from the other reason I was posting...

Does anyone else think that this book has a lot of hidden Gems inside it - ala Heldrake?

EASILY! check out the post above about the sick combinations...
I still like the +3 Invul rerollable, +4 feel no pain, eternal warrior, It will not die, T10 Great Unclean One.
Talk about unkillable.

 Generalian wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
To be honest, after seeing the book upclose and more of the models for the second time, I can say that there are going to be some really powerful Mono lists and absolutely sick mixed lists.

TBH, I just want the models, I don't think there is one I don't like.

Except maybe the Slaaneshi Lawnmower of Death.

Any I digress from the other reason I was posting...

Does anyone else think that this book has a lot of hidden Gems inside it - ala Heldrake?

EASILY! check out the post above about the sick combinations...
I still like the +3 Invul rerollable, +4 feel no pain, eternal warrior, It will not die, T10 Great Unclean One.
Talk about unkillable.

Already ahead of you there and I totally agree with all of your comments on Nurgle. They have the best models too.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. Do CSM Daemonic units with a MoN count as Daemons of Nurgle for Epidemius?

CSM no longer have summoned daemons, so no...

 Generalian wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 Generalian wrote:

Lovepug13 wrote:

 lordofthegophers wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 lordofthegophers wrote:
I can see opponents getting frustrated with Soul Grinders of Nurgle behind an aegis. 2+ cover save anyone?

Won't cover enough of the Soulgrinder, sadly.

Really? That sucks, I don't own the model so I'm not sure how big the thing is, but yeah looking at it now you're probably right. Still, if you can get it behind something...

You need to see the model

We just checked at our local GW. The aegis defense line does cover 25% of the model and therefore gives the soulgrinder a +2 cover save.

SO AWESOME!

Is it modeled doing the splits?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
We used a soulgrinder made by a manager of Games Workshop used in multiple sponsored tournaments.
We measured the model and the Aegis line and then did the math.
The aegis walls (not the raised parts) covers a little more (by almost 3cm) then 25% of the model and is therefore legally giving it cover.

And you took into account that most of the mass is on top of the Soul Grinder and therefore not obscured?

Flesh hounds of Khorne rule.

 Generalian wrote:


EASILY! check out the post above about the sick combinations...
I still like the +3 Invul rerollable, +4 feel no pain, eternal warrior, It will not die, T10 Great Unclean One.
Talk about unkillable.

Unkillable GUO, meet broken JotWW!

Selym wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. Do CSM Daemonic units with a MoN count as Daemons of Nurgle for Epidemius?

CSM no longer have summoned daemons, so no...

Possessed, Oblits, Talons etc all have the Daemon rule. The point seems debatable both in RAW and fluff. Nine Oblits racking up kills for Gramps? That's some nasty synergy right there...

 Darkseid wrote:

 Generalian wrote:


EASILY! check out the post above about the sick combinations...
I still like the +3 Invul rerollable, +4 feel no pain, eternal warrior, It will not die, T10 Great Unclean One.
Talk about unkillable.

Unkillable GUO, meet broken JotWW!

Rune Priest meet the Warp Storm table.

Yeah, I'm clutching at straws with that one

 Darkseid wrote:

 Generalian wrote:


EASILY! check out the post above about the sick combinations...
I still like the +3 Invul rerollable, +4 feel no pain, eternal warrior, It will not die, T10 Great Unclean One.
Talk about unkillable.

Unkillable GUO, meet broken JotWW!

Exalted!!!

 Darkseid wrote:

 Generalian wrote:


EASILY! check out the post above about the sick combinations...
I still like the +3 Invul rerollable, +4 feel no pain, eternal warrior, It will not die, T10 Great Unclean One.
Talk about unkillable.

Unkillable GUO, meet broken JotWW!

Well, at PML 3 and initiative 4, Nurgle's finest has a good chance to survive JotWW.

EDIT:Why is PML associated with..."them"?

 Darkseid wrote:

 Generalian wrote:


EASILY! check out the post above about the sick combinations...
I still like the +3 Invul rerollable, +4 feel no pain, eternal warrior, It will not die, T10 Great Unclean One.
Talk about unkillable.

Unkillable GUO, meet broken JotWW!

With a 4+ DTW, and Init 4, JOTWW isn't going to work that well.

How about this one then? Flying tzeentch daemon prince (Or lord of change for a cheaper version, if you want to)

Give it full mastery level, wing's, armour, and the tzeentch primaris power. Take off and fly up behind that nasty flyer. 4d6 strength 5 shot's with skyfire into it's butt, hitting it on 2's (Hitting flyers on 2's *squee*)

Before you even shoot it, you can vector strike the flyer for d3+1 strength 6 hits, then shoot the warpfire bolt's out of your butt at it's rear armour.

Heck, if that's not strong enough, you can still pick 2 other powers, and either use those powers combined with this, or spend all warpcharge on adding d6's to the shots you get.

This thing is a strength 5, flying minigun