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Made in gb
Tower of Power






Cannock

I am steadily working my work through the review of the Chaos Daemons codex. I thought I would share this with the good folk of Dakka.

This will be a living post, I will update it as I progress through the review.

Keep in mind that the review is down to my own opinion and your own opinions maybe different from my own

Link from my blog: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2013/03/chaos-daemons-codex-review-hq.html

Part one of many parts of the Chaos Daemon codex review kicks off with the HQ. Lets be having it.

HQ

Bloodthirster

The Bloodthirster is the ultimate badass and now fits the background of ass kickery with profile skull crushing. The 'Thirster is WS10 BS10 S6 T6 W5 I9 A6 LD9 SV3+ all for 250 points.

The Bloodthirster comes with a lash of khorne (assault 1 S6 AP2) and an axe of khorne (AP2 wound to roll of 6+ inflicts instant death). Don't forget this dude can fly as well.

You can take 50 points worth of daemonic rewards in any combination: lesser rewards, greater rewards and exalted. Note that these rewards are like psychic powers and are randomly rolled for. You can of course switch them for a 'primaris' reward if you do not like the result. I would probably take greater rewards as they offer some great benefits i.e +1 wound, it will not die, feel no pain, re-roll invulnerable saves, S8 AP1 lance weapon, armourbane and fleshbane - plenty of juicy bonus's the greater rewards are only 20 points each.

Note that the Bloodthirster is a force multiplier and Daemon Princes who have the daemon of khorne upgrade are heavy support instead of HQ choices.

Summary

The Bloodthirster is an expensive animal but is well worth the cost. In close combat the Bloodthirster is going to maul basic troops with ease and chop up characters in challenges. Don't forget that the 'Thirster gets furious charge as it is a daemon of khorne.

Rating: 8/10

Lord of Change

The Lord of Change is pretty much same profile as the Bloodthirster (which is funny as you'd thought the 'Thirster would be stronger), though doesn't has as good WS, BS, I and A. It does cost 20 points less though.

You can also have daemonic rewards, which the greater rewards are probably best considering the LoC only has a 5+ inv, though can re-roll 1's when saving as it is a daemon of tzeentch. In addition the daemon if tzeentch rules gives +3 when using psychic powers, though the giant daemon bird is LD9 anyway.

The LoC (Lord of Change) is a flying monstrous creature and is a mastery level 2 psyker, you can pay 25 points and make it a mastery level 3. LoC can use divination and change disciplines. The change discipline is unique for Tzeentch Daemons and as you can guess is all shooting based. The bad news about these shooting powers is all have this silly warpflame rule; if the enemy unit suffers an unsaved wound, then the unit must take a toughness test, if it passes it gains feel no pain (this stacks)!If failed the unit suffers D3 wounds no armour or cover saves.

Here's the powers:

Flickering Fire of Tzeentch - 24" S5 AP4 assault 2D6, soul blaze - you can use 1,2 or 3 warp charge points to use this power, for each warp charge point you use you add an extra D6 - so 3 warp charge points would fire 4D6 shots! Add in prescience and that re-roll armour save one from divination and you're laughing.

Tzeentch's Firestorm - 24" SD6+1 AP- assault 1, blast

Bolt of Tzeentch - 24" SD6+4 AP2 assault 1

Infernal Gateweay - 18" SD6+4 AP1 assault 1, blast

Like the Bloodthirster, Lord of Changes makes Princes with the daemon of tzeentch upgrade heavy support choices.

Summary

Personally I do not think the standard Tzeentch powers are that good and find them very unreliable. Taking a big ass Daemon with a 5+ inv save costing 255 points just to fire a crap load of S5 shots is a bit much. Sure there's some good divination powers i.e prescience and some other powers, though you are hoping you get good luck. If you add in greater rewards this Daemon-Chicken gets more survivable, but costs a lot more points - you're talking close to 300 points!

Rating: 5/10

Great Unclean One



I believe the GuO's (Great Unclean One) points have increased in the new Chaos Daemons codex. You get a not so good shooty but more wounds LoC for 190 points.

The GuO does have poisoned attacks (wounds on a 4+), handy for those re-rolls against weaker stuff and against other monstrous creatures. The GuO is also a psyker, you can upgrade to mastery level 3 for 25 points a level. You can take powers from biomancy and plague disciplines. Here are the plague powers:

Stream of Corruption - template S- AP3 assault 1, poisoned (4+)

Plague Wind - 12" S1 AP2 assault 1, large blast, poisoned (4+)

Miasma of Pestilence - blessing which targets the psyker. Start of each fight sub-phase roll a D3, all enemy units locked in close combat with the target suffer penalties to weapon skill and initiative equal to the result.

Rancid Visitations - nova power with 12" range. Enemy unit takes a toughness test and if fails suffers a wound with no armour or cover saves. If an enemy model is slain the unit must continue to take a toughness test and suffer wounds until test is passed or unit is destroyed.

You can also take the daemonic rewards, one again I suggest greater rewards, which will make the GuO very tough to tackle.

Like all Greater Daemons, the Great Unclean One can make Daemon Princes heavy support if they have the daemon of nurgle upgrade.

Summary

The Great Unclean One can be a serious tough cookie if given the right powers and daemonic rewards, perhaps take the template standard plague power and then two powers from biomancy (hope for iron arm and endurance, if not smite is fine as can fire two weapons) and then throw on greater rewards. Deep strike the GuO down and mooch into combat and trash infantry.

Rating: 7/10

Keeper of Secrets



The Keeper of Secrets (KoS) is the last of the Greater Daemons and also the cheapest. It has +1 initiative over the Bloodthirster, though rest of it's profile is about same as the LoC. The KoS costs 190 points.

As the KoS is a daemon of slaanesh it has the fleet rule and can run an additional 3" (remember the KoS is a single unit model).

You can take daemonic rewards and as the previous Greater Daemons the greater reward is probably the better one.

As standard the KoS is a mastery level 1 psyker, you can make it a mastery level 3. The KoS can generate powers from the telepathy and excess disciplines. Here are the excess powers:

Lash of Slaanesh - 24" S6 AP- assault 1, rending

Acquiescence - malediction which targets enemy unit within 18". Unit suffers -5 to initiative and cannot use counter-attack or overwatch.

Pavane of Slaanesh - focused witchfire 24". Model must take a leadership test, if it fails no armour or cover saves. If target is slain randomly select another model in the unit, continue to do this until leadership test is passed or unit is destroyed.

Cacophonic Choir - nova 12". Each target unit must rolled 2D6 and subtract leadership, unit suffers number of wounds equal to difference with no armour or cover saves. Units must take a pinning test.

Summary

As the Keeper of Secrets is pretty damn quick and Daemons are a horde army now, I can see the KoS being a popular choice. If you roll well on the telepathy table you could get invisibility, add this with those greater rewards and you have a tough fast monster coming your way.

Rating: 7/10

Daemon Prince

Ok, the Daemons Daemon Prince is the same as the CSM Daemon Prince and costs the same points, 145 points!

You have to upgrade the Prince to be a daemon of one of the four gods, this costs 10-25 points. If you're going foot I would consider the Slaanesh daemon as this can make your Prince pretty quick. If you want a super psyker then go Tzeentch. Nurgle and Khorne are interesting, especially for flyers.

You can give the Prince wings (becomes flying monstrous creature), warp forged armour (3+ armour save), 50 points of daemonic rewards and up to mastery level 3 psyker. If a psyker can generate powers from the respective disciplines.

Summary

I keep looking at the Daemon Prince and shaking my head, why G.W, why? Doesn't G.W like selling Daemon Prince models or something? The only decent way I can think to run the Prince is on foot (flying Prince is way too expensive) and take the 3+ armour save along with daemon of slaanesh or daemon of nurgle; these give the best survivability options and speed to get into close combat. The standard nurgle power maybe useful, without a psyker upgrade I can't see what the Prince is going to do.

Rating: 3/10

** Tactica article from my blog: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2013/03/the-best-anti-flyer-for-chaos-daemons.html

Herald of Khorne

For 55 points this little angry red dude of choppy death isn't too bad.

Take some daemonic gifts and you can get something extremely hard to kill, or something which offers some interesting benefits, though I wouldn't say they are a must.

More interestingly the HoK (Herald of Khorne) can take three loci, these range from 10-25 points and unlike the daemonic rewards they are set in what they do - this makes Heralds very attractive. You can get adamantium will, rage and also hatred special rules - these effect the unit the Herald is with. Rage and hatred would be very useful in a unit of Khorne Daemons.

You can also take a Juggernaut, which maybe an option as the Herald becomes T5 and cavalry. You can take a Bloodthrone which is an av12-12-10 3 hull point open topped vehicle. If the Bloodthrone causes an unsaved wound from hammer of wrath attacks, then on a 4+ it can re-gain a single hull point. Note that daemon of khorne models are S7 when doing hammer of wrath. Also the loci rule extends 6". Though the chariot does cost 75 points which is a lot considering what you get.

Summary

Not too bad to boost some Bloodletters with the loci abilities. Some of the rewards maybe useful, particularly if you roll well on the daemonic reward and get it will not die, especially if you have a chariot.

Rating: 6.5/10

Herald of Tzeentch

This little guy is only 45 points and is also a mastery level 1 psyker.

You can take the daemonic rewards, though I am not sure if they will be useful for the HoT (Herald of Tzeentch), though a mutating warp blade from under the greater daemonic gifts maybe interesting. You can make up to a mastery level 3 psyker though.

You can take one of three loci which can give you; when a model is slain add D3 Blue Horror counters; roll a D6 at start of turn and all models switch this for their strength; +1 strength to all hits caused by psychic powers.

The HoT can take a disc of tzeentch or a burning chariot. The disc gives +1 attack and also makes the Herald become a jetbike. The chariot is av10-10-10 open topped and also a fast vehicle, which for 50 points costs a lot and you do not get a lot in return.

Summary

A cheapo mastery level 3 HoT zooming around on a disc blasting out shots would be very useful. If not add in the loci which gives +1 strength to hits from psychic powers and throw in a large unit of Pink Horrors and make them bad boys S6.

Rating: 7/10

Herald of Nurgle

The Herald of Nurgle costs the same points as the Herald of Tzeentch and is a tough dirty cookie.

Usual daemonic gift options, I would consider greater rewards as the balesword isn't too bad though the greater etherblade is nice. You still have the nice greater reward options as well.

You can make the HoN (Herald of Nurgle) a mastery level 2 psyker, I would consider a mastery level 1 and take that AP3 template power.

Loci options are; to hit rolls in close combat of a 6+ are poison 2+; all models have feel no pain; to hit rolls of a 6+ in close combat immediately causes additional S4 poisoned (4+) hit.

You can take a palanquin which gives +2 wounds and +1 attack.

Summary

A mastery level 2 HoN on a palanquin with the loci gift which gives feel no pain would be very nice at tarpitting units in the back field i.e objective holding units, Devastators, Long Fangs etc. Also brilliant for boosting survival rates of Plaguebearers.

Rating: 7/10

Herald of Slaanesh

Ok, last of the Heralds and the Herald of Slaanesh also costs a cheapo 45 points.

You can take the normal daemonic rewards, the lash of torment is interesting (2D6 shots) and of course the greater rewards are always nice.

You can make the HoS into a mastery level 2, might be useful, most powers in the excess discipline are ok.

Loci abilities are; move through cover; +5 to initiative; re-roll to hit in combat plus challenges cannot be refused and can only be accepted by model's of the Daemon player's choice.

You can also take a Steed or options for either of the Slaanesh chariots. The exalted chariot maybe worth it (costs 80 points) as the shredder wargear on it inflicts D6 hammer of wrath with rending rule for each hull point is has; the chariot has 4 hull points and is av11-11-10.

Summary

Not a too bad Herald. You could take a nice greater reward (greater etherblade +1 strength AP2) and then take the loci which means no refusing challenges and if you fancy it throw the HoS onto a chariot and start doing a billion hammer of wrath attacks with the rending rule.

Rating: 7/10

Overall

The Daemon Prince has got the sad end of the stick and is probably the worst HQ in the book. It's a real shame as it is a cracking model plus I just brought one.

Lord of Change is unreliable due to strength of powers and gives feel no pain. This applies to the Herald of Tzeentch too, but this guy costs a lot cheaper.

Keeper of Secrets would fit nicely with Daemons as they have gone the foot route now and will fit in chariot lists.

The Bloodthirster is the most killy Greater Daemon, though the Great Unclean One isn't far behind and probably might be harder to kill if you get some good psychic powers and greater daemonic rewards.

Out of the Heralds a Herald of Slaanesh seems the most interesting on a chariot along with the Herald of Tzeentch on a disc. HoS can zoom up and mash things up in close combat, is basically a Rhino with four hull points while a HoT can zoom about and blast side armour of vehicles, just hope you roll well for strength!

** Also note that you can take TWO Heralds per HQ slot, so that's FOUR Heralds as HQs.**

Troops

Link from my blog: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2013/03/chaos-daemons-codex-review-troops.html

Bloodletters

The Bloodletter has changed slightly in the new Daemon codex and is now only T3 and for some reason is BS5, which I am not sure why as it has no shooting weapons - please correct me if I am wrong. The Bloodletter has also taken a points reduction and now you can get a unit of 10 for 100 points.

The Bloodletter has a hellblade as standard (AP3 close combat weapon) and naturally is a daemon of khorne, which gives the 'Letter furious charge.

You can take a squad leader (Bloodreaper) and take a choice of lesser or greater daemonic rewards. Lesser rewards maybe useful.

You can also take an instrument of chaos and an icon of chaos;

The former lets you tag along another Daemon unit of the same daemons when rolling for reserves, providing both units are in reserve and the first unit is deep striking. In addition the instrument lets you re-roll Warp Storm Table results.

While the latter stops deep striking scattering if both units have the same daemonic alignment i.e both daemons of khorne, if not only scatter 1D6". You can upgrade the icon to a banner of blood, this gives 6+D6" for charge distances (instead of normal 2D6), but can only be used once.

Summary

The Bloodletters aren't too bad unit and a Herald of Khorne can give them some more combat out put with the loci abilities. The problem I see is when this unit either deep strikes or walks across the table it is just going to get blown to bits, they are only T3 with a 5+ inv and no one in their right mind is going to let the Bloodletters reach combat.

I guess what you could do is take a basic unit and have them camp mid field on objectives; this way they can deter would be assaults who wish to claim objectives and also get stuck in if the time is needed.

Rating: 5/10

Pink Horrors

Like the Bloodletters, the Pink Horrors have seen a massive point drop - you can now get a unit of 10 for 90 points while in the old codex the same unit would cost 170 points! The Pink Horror is also the overall 'weakest' Daemon troop, when I say weakest I mean it is just as weak as Daemonettes and Bloodletters but it's combat skill is no where near as good as these.

Horrors have the brotherhood of sorcerers, blue horrors and magic made manifest rules. Blue horrors puts some counters down when a Pink Horror is killed in close combat which attacks at S2 I1. If you take Pink Horrors in unit 11-15 they generate 2 warp charge points and 16-20 generates 3 warp charge points.

You can upgrade one Pink Horror to an Iridescent Horror, who can access lesser and greater daemonic rewards. I wouldn't bother with the greater rewards as they aren't worth it for a single model while the lesser might be interesting if you get the right rolls.

Horrors can take an instrument and an icon of chaos; the icon can be upgraded to a blasted standard which gives an additional 2D6 S4 AP- hits. This can only be done once per game and is done before the unit makes a shooting attack (including overwatch) and before psychic tests.

Summary

As a shooty player I've always had a little soft spot for the Pink Horrors' shooting ability and over time the models have grown on me. I would load up on Pink Horrors units of 20 and then they can knock out 4D6 shots from the primaris Tzeentch psychic power, of course you still get the choice of other powers too.

I can see Pink Horrors been handy with Daemonettes, Daemonettes run up while Pink Horrors come behind and lay down fire power.

Rating: 6.5/10

Plaguebearers

The poor Plaguebearer took a nerf in the new Chaos Daemons codex; lost feel no pain and toughness 5, though still the Plaguebearer is the toughest among the Chaos Daemons troops.

Though it is not all gloom, as a daemon of nurgle they gain the shrouding special rule and also have defensive grenades. In addition their blades can glance any vehicle on a 6+ when rolling to penetrate - rust them Land Raiders up! Also you can do now get 10 Plaguebearers for 90 points, previously they would cost 150 points.

You can make one Plaguebearer a Plagueridden, the Plagueridden can access lesser and greater daemonic rewards. I would consider lesser rewards though would probably leave the greater rewards for the same reason as the other troop choices - only a single model.

You also have the option for an instrument and icon of chaos. You can upgrade the icon to a plague banner which gives poison (2+) for close combat. The banner must be popped at the start of the fight sub phase and can only be used once per game.

Summary

The Plaguebearer is still probably the best close combat orientated troop choice - Bloodletters hit hard but can't take punishment and Daemonettes can't take punishment and hope for lucky rends. The plague banner is also in combat if you really want to destroy the enemy unit, well worth the 20 points.

I can still see Plaguebearers been the default troop choice, though Pink Horrors and Daemonettes may get a look in.

Rating: 8/10

Daemonettes

Like the Pink Horrors and the Plaguebearers, the Daemonette also costs 90 points for a unit of 10. I might be wrong but I do not think the Daemonettes took a nerf.

As daemon of slaanesh the Daemonettes get the fleet rule, rending rule and can also run an additional 3".

You can upgrade a Daemonette to an Alluress, who can take lesser and greater daemonic rewards. Out of these I would only take the lesser rewards, I personally don't think the greater of worth it as they add survivability and it isn't worth the points cost just for a single model.

Daemonettes can also take an instrument and icon of chaos, this icon can be upgraded to a rapturous standard. The standard issues an -D3 penalty to weapon skill to ALL models in close combat - this doesn't effect daemons of slaanesh or models which have mark of slaanesh. Like other standards this can only be used once. As Daemonettes are WS5 they will be hitting on a 3+ most of the time, though the enemy could be hitting on anything from a 3+ to a 5+ depending on how good your roll is.

Summary

The Daemonettes aren't too bad, though I still worry about their lower toughness and invulnerable save and I can see them just not making combat or when they do they won't have enough numbers.

For example 10 Daemonettes charge 10 Tactical Marines. The Daemonettes strike first 30 attacks - hit with 20 - wound with 7 (one rend) - 2 dead Tacticals plus the rend = 3 dead Tactical Marines.

The Tacticals strike back with 9 attacks (Sgt) - hit with 5 - wound with 3 - 2 dead Daemonettes.

I think next turn the combat maybe a draw, if not Daemonettes may pull a victory.

Rating: 6.5/10

Nurglings

Nurglings are now 15 points a swarm, I think they have stayed the same points and profile wise (maybe got an extra wound?) from the previous codex.

Naturally the Nurglings are daemons of nurgle (shrouding, slow and purposeful and defensive grenades). They also have the infiltrate rule and of course are swarms. These two rules go hand in hand as the Nurglings can infiltrate into terrain and aren't slowed in terrain because they are swarm and then add shrouding, the little buggers will have a 2+ cover save!

Summary

Handy for tarpits but that's about it. Without feel no pain and a bite back the Nurglings won't last as long as they used to.

Rating: 5/10

Overall

The Bloodletter sports the most killy power with the AP3 choppy sword, however T3 and 5+ inv means you won't see loads of them in combat. I think you will need 20 of them and start on the field and take the banner to give you the super assault range. You could deep strike loads of units of 10 if you wanted. I don't expect Bloodletters to be that popular due to the weaknesses they have and they also have the higher points cost of all Daemon troops.

Pink Horror is an interesting unit and fairly costs. Can be unreliable with the primaris psychic power (4D6 assault S5 if using 20 Horrors) and the general Tzeentch powers aren't mega reliable either. I would say the Pink Horrors are just meh and that's all they will ever be. The exalted locus from a Herald maybe useful, though adds up in points just to get a +1 strength bonus.

Plaguebearers I still think are the best troop unit. Sure they cannot shoot, but they can take some damage thanks to being the toughest Daemon troops and can look after objectives like a boss. Thanks to the poison weapons they are not too bad in combat and can deal with vehicles.

Daemonettes suffer the same problem as Bloodletters; can't take punishment well and need numbers to achieve some real damage. At least they have fleet and run 3" extra as standard. These benefits put them over the Bloodletters.

Nurglings are fun if you have some points left and a spare troop choice. I don't think they make as good tarpit as they did before thanks to loss of feel no pain.

Elites

Bloodcrusher of Khorne

The Bloodcrusher has taken a bit of a nerf in the new codex; it has lost the T5, 3+ armour save and like all Daemons has lost eternal warrior. The 'Crusher however has been changed to cavalry, which means these things can move 12" and get hammer of wrath.

Nothing too fancy, there's the hellblade (AP3) and of course daemons of khorne, so get furious charge.

One Bloodcrusher can be upgraded to a Bloodhunter and take lesser or greater rewards.

Bloodcrushers can also take an instrument and banner; both of these were covered in the troop review. The banner can be upgraded to a banner of blood, which can be pretty scary as it gives 6+D6" assault range instead of the normal 2D6".

Summary

Bloodcrushers have been taken down a peg or two, well a lot in fact. The loss of 3+ armour save and T5 means they are boltgun fodder. FYI a unit of 10 x Tactical Marines rapid firing will fire 20 shots - hit 13 - wound 7 and the Bloodcrushers will fail 5 wounds - a unit of min Bloodcrushers cost 135 points and come in a unit of 3, that would leave a two Bloodcrushers left, one with a single wound. Due to their large size they are asking to be smacked about with large blasts i.e Vindicators, Manticores, Leman Russes etc not to forget they are krak missile bait too.

I think a unit of 5 might be worth it, though will cost 200 points +. They can absorb some fire power but will need supporting units i.e Fiends of Slaanesh who can move fast along them or maybe Daemonettes?

Rating: 4/10

Flamers of Tzeentch

Thanks to the past White Dwarf update, Flamers were an auto include in your army. Flamers had the answer to everything; anti armour - check; anti infantry; check; anti 2+ armour save: check - they could also threaten flyers if they rolled well. Then G.W went and screwed all the Daemons players who picked up boxes of Flamers last year and nerfed the Flamers hard, so hard they go the nerf bat turned that sum bitch sideways and sticked it straight up their candy asses!

Ok, I now have that out my system

Flamers then, their flamer template attack is now S4 AP4 and has a silly rule which if the enemy unit takes an unsaved wound, then the unit must take a toughness test, if this test is passed then the enemy unit GAINS feel no pain. This also stacks by the way. If the test is failed then the unit takes D3 wounds with no armour or cover saves.

Lets do a little go compare.com;

10 x Tactical Marines are attacked by a unit of 5 x Flamers, lets say the templates each cover 4 Marines and if positioned correctly you can get 4 Flamers to fire. The Flamers cause 16 hits - 8 wounds - 3 dead Marines. The Space Marines have a 33% chance of failure for the toughness test, so more than likely they will get feel no pain.

Lets take the above and use the old Flamers; 16 hits - 8 wounds - 8 dead Marines.

Before pointing out the obvious, lets do another go compare.com

10 x Fire Warriors/Eldar/Guardsmen are attacked by a unit of 5 x Flamers this time. The Flamers cause 16 hits - 11 wounds - 11 dead xeno scum/imperium dogs. The xenos/imperium have 50% chance of failure for toughness test, though the point is moot in this case as the unit is destroyed.

In case you haven't caught on, my point with Flamers is they are still very good at destroying xenos or anything not in a 3+ armour save or better. In fact they are even better than before as wound on a 3+ instead of a 4+, well against T3 anyway.

You can take a Pyrocaster who can take lesser and greater daemonic rewards, that's about all the options Flamers gets, though it matches their background so I am not complaining. I wouldn't take take any of the rewards by the way, not worth it for Flamers.

Summary

Tis true the Flamers got nerfed, but they deserved it, but going from one extreme to the other is very bad treatment by G.W of it's customers. The Flamers has not only lost the ability to tackle armour but also lost ranged fire power. Though as mentioned above, the Flamers are excellent xeno killers and anti horde.

Rating: 6.5/10

Beast of Nurgle

I have never used a Beast of Nurgle, though I have been told they have taken a points reduction, which is good. I also think they are an interesting unit...

Beast of Nurgle has the attention seeker rule, which basically lets the Beast charge in the opponent's assault phase! In addition it has the slime trail, which if an enemy unit charges it counts as a disorientated charge (no bonus attacks).

The Beast is of course a daemon of nurgle so it has the shrouding and slow and purposeful special rules along with defensive grenades, not that the defensive grenades matter (unless already locked in assault). Also has 4+ poison attacks (D6+1) and has it will not die.

Oh, as per title, the Beast of Nurgle is a beast, which means this guy is moving 12" and not caring about terrain (shrouding!) and re-rolling those assault distances thanks to fleet.

Summary

The Beast of Nurgle is an interesting unit thanks to it's counter charge ability, however an opponent isn't likely to charge your unit when the Beast is near, though it could be some distance away and the Beast may not make the random assault charge distance.

Maybe you could use the Beast with some Nurglings? Infiltrate the Nurglings and let them get assaulted, Beast then chases up. Of course this is situational. You could use the Beast with Plaguebearers, Plaguebearers get assaulted while on objective and Beast runs up to help them.

Rating: 6/10

Fiends of Slaanesh

I believe in this codex the Fiends have taken a slight nerf and got more expensive (cost 105 points for a unit of 3) and also lost an attack - can someone confirm? They are also only S4 now and used to be S6.

Naturally the Fiends are daemons of slaanesh so they get rending and also the 3" run gig. Keep in mind they are beasts so can move 12", have move through cover and fleet - insanely quick.

They have two new rules; disruptive song and soporific musk. The song gives -1 penalty to enemy psyker's leadership test when taking psychic tests if the Fiends are within 12". The musk gives a -5 initiative penalty to units which are successfully charged by Fiends, Fiends lol at nemesis halberds.

Summary

I can see Fiends working very well with Keeper of Secrets, Bloodthirster, Daemonettes and Bloodcrushers - everything can move up quickly while the more vulnerable units i.e Keeper and Crushers stay protected as they do not get shot at so much. Other than that they are just infantry and basic transport killers.

Rating: 6/10

http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2013/03/chaos-daemons-codex-review-fast-attack.html

Fast Attack


Rolling out with the Chaos Daemons fast attack today. If you missed the last part of the review you can find it here: Chaos Daemons codex review - elites

Flesh Hound of Khorne

I believe the Hounds got have a buff in the new Daemons codex and are now 2 wounds each. I think they may have also got a points change, but I might be wrong. For 80 points you get 5 choppy Daemon dogs who are Space Marine profile except with WS6, W2 and a 6+ armour save (don't forget invulnerable save).

Rules wise they are beasts, daemons of khorne (so furious charge) and also have scout.

Wargear wise they have collar of khorne which gives a 2+ bonus to deny the witch rolls, so they are denying psychic powers on a 4+.

Summary

The Hounds are a very cool choppy fast attack unit and can support slower moving units such as chariots, Bloodletters and chariots. They can also provide multiple fast targets when paired with Bloodcrushers.

Rating: 8/10

Screamers of Tzeentch

Like the Flamers, Screamers took the nerf bat hard and were brought all the way down to china town. While they did need reigning in, I feel they have gone from one extreme to the other.

Screamers have a slashing attack rule which works exactly the same as before and like Dark Eldar Reavers slash attack. The lamprey's bite is still S5 AP2 armourbane however you substitute ALL attacks for ONE lamprey's bite attack.

Here's a little mathammer how Screamers will work against Space Marines now:

6 x Screamers charge 10 x Tactical Marines. Marines overwatch with 20 shots - hit with 3 - wound with 2 - 1 failed invulnerable save.

Screamers get 6 x S4 hammer of wrath attacks - wound with 3 - 1 Marine dead - Screamers then gte 24 attacks - hit with 12 - wound with 6 - 2 dead Tactical Marines.

Marine are I4 so strike at the same time; they will get 10 attacks - hit with 7 - wound with 4 - 3 failed saves

Lets do the same but try lamprey's bite instead:

Screamers get 6 attacks (will they get charge attacks with lamprey's bite?) - hit with 3 - kill 2 Tactical Marines.

So combat with lamprey's bite is the same with normal attacks when fighting against Space Marines. Of course against xenos or anything not in power armour or better is going to be taking the pain. Also Screamers will still chew up vehicles or basic transports, though this is going to be a close call as they will only hit 4 times.

Summary

While Screamers have taken a beating with the nerf bat they are still not that bad; you just need to be more selective with them and they are no longer a point and click unit. What Screamers are best used for is tackling armour without transport ability and decking camping units or small weak troop numbers.

Consider Screamers in support of fast moving HQs, Bloodcrushers, Fiends and Daemonettes.

Rating: 7/10

Plague Drones of Nurgle

And the weird ass model award goes too....add in weird fluff too, something about mutating from a Beast of Nurgle or something.

These rot flies are 126 points for a unit of 3. You basically get a W3 A3 T5 Plague Bearer who is jet back cavalry.

Only wargear as standard is the plague sword, which isn't a bad weapon.

You can change one Plaguebearer to a Plaguebringer and take daemonic gifts from lesser and greater choices; some maybe useful others maybe not.

Instrument and icon are options, the upgraded banner isn't too bad to give the units 2+ poison attacks for a single turn.

Plague Drones do get the options of taking deaths heads, rot proboscis and venom sting. Death heads aren't too bad and useful for softening up a unit prior to assault, these are 12" S:User assault 4 poison 4+ ranged attacks. Rot proboscis gives 3+ poison attacks in close combat. Venom sting has instant death rule; put venom sting on the Plaguebringer and a etherblade (AP2) and you're going to kill stuff.

Summary

Like the previous two fast attack choices, the Plague Drones aren't a too bad unit and can make up some great support elements with elite units and slower moving units.

Rating: 7.5/10

Chaos Furies

Think of the Fury as a T3 Space Marine with WS3, they are jump infantry and you get 5 for 35 points.

Furies have the option be a daemon of a chaos god. I would probably take the daemon of slaanesh upgrade as gaining fleet, run extra D3 and rending for 2 points is great.

Summary

The Chaos Furies may seem a bit of a deal, but they are still pretty meh. Even with a daemon of slaanesh upgrade I don't expect them to do a lot, if you want them to lay the smack down you would seriously have to invest in them. Another issue is they are LD2 and it isn't hard to punch their faces in.

Best use to to sweep them down a flank and tie up small units which can hurt your bigger and more important units.

Rating: 5/10

Seekers of Slaanesh

I think the Seekers have taken a points reduction in the Chaos Daemons codex as you can get a unit of 5 for a bargain 60 points - please correct me if I am wrong about the points cost.

Seekers are cavalry and have the outflank and acute senses rules.

You can upgrade one Seeker to a Heartseeker and take lesser and greater daemonic rewards; lesser rewards might be useful.

Seekers get access to instrument and icon upgrades; you can upgrade the icon to a rapturous standard, though I am not sure if it is worth the points cost for a single turn.

Summary

While the Seekers are cheap enough, the more better fast attack units have multiple wounds and it's the single wound low toughness and not so good save which lets the Seekers down. The outflank and acute senses ability it nice, but standing there for a turn ready to take bullets to the face isn't good. If you could position them right, then they would be good for adding another threat and tackle those annoying units who are dicking with your big monsters etc.

Outflank the Seekers while your faster elites and fast attack units move up with supporting troops and Greater Daemons, Seekers arrive adding some 'on the doorstep' threat which must be dealt with or risk losing units holding back field objectives or guns which are blowing up your rushing Daemons.

Rating: 6.5/10

Hellflayer of Slaanesh

The Hellflayer is a 60 point 2 hull point Rhino which is a fast open topped chariot.

Hellflayer has two main rules; fleshshredder and soulscent. Fleshshredder does S4 rending hammer of wrath attacks (remember D6 as chariot) and inflicts D6 hits per hull point remaining. Soulscent gives a number of bonus attacks equal to the number of unsaved wounds caused by the hammer of wrath attacks - the Alluress riding the chariot has 4 attacks, so 5 charging and of course are rending. Time for a little bit of mathammer!

Lets presume the chariot has 2 hull points remaining and is charging a unit of 10 x Tactical Marines.

Chariot charges and gets 7-8 attacks from hammer of wrath (depends if you roll the dice separately or as 2D6), will wound 4 Marines if you're lucky you will get one rend and another Marine will snuff it - so 2 dead Marines and the Alluress gets a total of 7 attacks.

Alluress strikes first and hit 5 times - wound 2 times - one dead Marine.

7 x Tactical Marines strike back at the Alluress with 8 attacks - hit with 4 - wound with 3 - Alluress fails 2 and dies..

Summary

After a bit of mathammer and looking how weak these chariots are, I really cannot see them doing a fat lot. They are either lascannon/krak fodder or in combat the Alluress will probably die, though the chariot will remain and can carry on doing the hammer of wrath stuff.

Could go nicely in a chariot list, but it is so easy to take out and even in combat it is a bit meh. Use it for bashing weak troops like Tau, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Guardsmen etc and nothing more. If you're lucky maybe tackle av10 rear vehicles too with those rends, maybe.

Rating: 4/10

Overall Summary

The fast attack section seems to start off strong and then go down hill.

Flesh Hounds are a nice cheap fast attack unit and they will compliment any Daemon army. For the points you really can't go wrong.

Screamers took a nerf but still are good at vehicle hunting - just go for vehicles without transport ability so then nothing can get out and shoot you in the face.

Despite gak models, the Plague Drones offer an alternative to Flesh Hounds. I personally would take the Drones over the Hounds as that toughness and poison attacks are nice.

Furies, Seekers and Hellflayers are the weaker parts of the fast attack.

Furies aren't too bad but the LD2 really hurts them, it's not like they are killing machines is it?

Seekers are very fragile, but outflanking them will keep them protected and make cheap distraction units.

Hellflayer is probably the worst fast attack unit. It is pretty weak and not that mega awesome sauce in close combat. Might be useful in a chariot list but do not expect wonders.

Heavy Support

http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2013/03/chaos-daemon-codex-review-heavy-support.html

Soul Grinder

The Soul Grinder is the heavy duty armour Daemons have access too and boy is it a beast; av13 front and side with av11 on the rear rocking with 4 hull points. This costs 135 points base, so gone up a little bit from the previous codex.

Standard wargear is the harvester cannon and iron claw; the harvester is basically a heavy 3 autocannon which has skyfire and the iron claw is like a dccw, but strangely has the unwieldy rule, which is pointless as this doesn't effect walkers.

You MUST upgrade the Soul Grinder to be a daemon of a chaos god; Khorne gives furious charge, so a bit meh but it is the cheapest option (costing 0 points); Tzeentch lets you re-roll 1's for failed invulnerable saves; Nurgle gives shrouding, defensive grenades and slow and purposeful while Slaanesh gives rending, fleet and additional run 3". If you wanted something cheap then go Khorne. I am not sure on the Tzeentch option, but it is cheap. Nurgle is very good for a camping Soul Grinder and also good for big guns never tire. Slaanesh isn't too bad if you're going a close combat Grinder and want fast moving unit saturation.

The Soul Grinder has several options it can take:

Baleful torrent is a S6 AP4 torrent flamer weapon, tasty.

Warp gaze is 24" S10 AP1 shot, hmmmm.

Phlegm bombardment is a cool S8 AP3 ordnance wad of puke.

Warp sword is a master crafted AP3 weapon which is the strength of the user, so S6 for the Grinder.

Out of the above I would take the phlegm without a doubt, sure it is expensive, but it mashes power armour up and trashes vehicles. Baleful torrent is ok, good for roasting xenos. Warp gaze and the sword are pretty meh, the points cost factored with the Grinder's average ballistic skill means gaze isn't worth it and the sword is just junk as the iron claw is better.

Summary

The Soul Grinder is a highly customisable unit and can fit into various armies with ease. It's even better now that it can start on the battlefield which means no deep strike risk from the large foot print.

You could take a Nurgle Grinder which can camp in cover (make sure 25% cover) and get a 2+ cover save and wreck vehicles and infantry with the harvester and phlegm.

The harvester, I don't think it is uber anti air, the Soul Grinder needs a 4+ to hit so will hit 1-2 shots on average. Against av11 flyer will have 50% chance to do something, not great odds, but since when is anti flyer stuff awesome?

Rating: 8/10

Skull Cannon of Khorne

Well, I can say this gets the award for most silly ass looking model in the codex. Even the Daemon Tina Turner Herald of Slaanesh doesn't look too bad compared to this.

The Skull Cannon is an av12 3 hull point vehicle costing 125 points. It's also open-topped and a chariot, so remember hammer of wrath (which is S7 for khorne) if you od ever charge it.

The cannon fires a S8 AP5 large blast, which sounds pretty poor, though any unit which takes a hit gets a marker placed by it. If any friendly daemon unit charges through terrain to assault the hit models then they suffer no penalty.

The Skull Cannon does have a funk rule called 'gorefeast', this rule can restore a single hull point on a 4+ if an unsaved wound is taken from hammer of wrath attacks.

Summary

The Skull Cannon is an interesting but confused unit; it wants to shoot but also wants to charge. It does offer some nice synergy and bizarrely I can see it working with Slaanesh units and a whole Khorne themed unit. I wouldn't say it is massively threatening though thanks to the lack of AP, but transport vehicles need to be aware.

Rating: 6/10

Burning Chariot of Tzeentch

The Burning Chariot is a 3 hull point Dark Eldar Venom in chariot form, it costs 100 points, which at first glance is pretty expensive, but when you consider the power it out puts it isn't too bad.

Riding the chariot is a Flamer who can use blue and pink fire of tzeentch. Both fires are pretty evil with pink fire been S5 AP3 torrent and blue fire 18" S9 AP2 heavy D3. Sounds good doesn't it? Well here's the pickle, both are heavy weapons which means if the Burning Chariot moves the Flamer can only snap fire, which isn't cool for D3 shots and it certainly isn't cool for a flamer weapon which you cannot snap fire!

The Flamer can take gifts, but these are pretty pointless as the Burning Chariot is pretty meh and the Flamer isn't that good at much.

Summary

Needs a FAQ!

Rating: 1/10

Seeker Cavalcade

The Cavalcade is an interesting unit as it is a squadron made up of chariots which can be different units/models.

You have the option of the Seeker Chariot which is a 2 hull point open-topped fast Rhino. It seems weak, but only costs 40 points a model. I guess you get what you pay for.

The other chariot option is an Exalted Seeker Chariot. This is the beefier version of the above and is a 4 hull point open-topped fast Rhino. This costs just under double points of the Seeker Chariot.

Both chariots have access to lesser and greater rewards, you may want to throw on a etherblade, but I wouldn't invest any points into the Seeker Chariot if I am honest; they are just too fragile.

Both chariots have a very cool rule called 'fleshshredder' this rules does S4 rending hammer of wrath of attacks (remember D6 hammer of wrath attacks for a chariot), but you get an extra D6 per hull point the chariot has remaining. So a Exalted Chariot could get 5D6 S4 rending hits if it has all 4 hull points remaining!

Summary

Both chariots only have a single thing going for them and it really a gimmick and that is the fleshshredder rule. It's not a bad rule and if these things hit they will seriously hurt, but the Seeker isn't mega tough and the Exalted is only a big stronger, it is not like av11 open-topped can absorb buckets of fire power.

Triple Exalted Chariots would cost a reasonable 225 points. You could cut the points cost down by taking 1-2 Seekers and then Exalted and throw the Exalted at the front to tank the shots. Remember they are daemons so they get the 5+ inv.

Rating: 7/10

Overall Summary

The Soul Grinder easily takes the crown of the heavy support section and is among the best units in the codex. I think the skyfire is a nice option but people are just going to overate it and won't see past the skyfire. Don't get me wrong it is good, but BS3 heavy 3 isn't awesome for anti flyer.

Skull Cannon needs to fit in with the army. This is more of a synergy unit. It will work in some armies and not in others.

Burning Chariot is junk. G.W FAQ this!

Seeker Cavalcade is a pretty cool unit, though can get expensive and is fragile. Be interesting to see these unit in play tests and also in an all chariot list or something.

Special Characters

Skarbrand

Skarbrand is the biggest and meanest Daemon in the codex. This dude is a pure close combat machine!

Skarband has the death incarnate warlord trait, his weapons have the instant death rule. Speaking of his weapons, one has the armourbane rule while the other have the fleshbane rule. Both are S:User and AP2.

Skarbrand has a ranged attack in the form of a S5 AP- template.

As Skarbrand is so pissed off all models within 12" (friend and foe) have the rage and hatred rules.

Summary

If you want a smashy HQ character then Skarbrand is your choice. Deep strike him in and the 3+ armour save should keep him safe, you can deep strike into cover if you like as monstrous creatures have the move through cover special rule and that ignores dangerous terrain - a 4+ cover is better than a 5+ inv .

Rating: 7/10

Kairos Fateweaver

Fateweaver, this two headed chicken has seriously changed. Firstly Fateweaver's profile got changed; now WS1, W5 I2 and has a 4+ inv save.

Warlord trait for this guy allows re-rolls on the warp storm table, handy.

Fateweaver's re-roll ability has changed massively, now can only re-roll once per turn, this is a single dice so no 2D6 etc.

Each of Fateweaver's heads knows four psychic powers and are each a mastery level 4 psyker, though you can only use one head at once. Both heads know all powers from the change discipline while the right generates powers from pyromancy and divination while the left hand generates powers from telepathy and biomancy. You can only use one head at once.

Summary

Fateweaver has dropped in points but is also very different and no longer acts as a Daemon army wide survival tool. You can use Fateweaver to buff your army with powers like prescience and be offensive with powers from pyromancy or be defensive with powers from biomancy.

Unless I haven't 'got it' yet, I am not sure what the point is in Fateweaver. He just seems offensive and defensive and only buffs are from divination and that's a lot of points just to give a few puffs.

Rating: 6.5/10

Ku'Gath Plaguefather

Ku'Gath is like a tooled up Great Unclean One, similar profile with a few added special rules.

Ku'Gath has the immortal commander warlord trait, this lets units within 12" re-roll failed daemonic instability tests, very handy.

Ku'Gath also has the slime trail special rule (enemy units count as making a disordered charge, so no bonus attacks), can regenerate a single wound to a single Nurgling base within 6" and can throw a 4+ poisoned AP3 large blast 24". Oh he is also a psyker as well, so taking the standard nurgle power means this guy is going to kill stuff in power armour.

Summary

For the points I would say Ku'Gath is pretty expensive. Sure the AP3 blast is sweet but giving Nurglings a wound back is just a gimmick. Ok this guy can destroy power armour with the AP3 blast and flamer template power, but really that's about it.

Deep strike this diseased fatty into the back field and pester camping units and small objective holding units. He will earn you line breaker at least

Rating: 5/10

Skulltaker

Right, Khorne's right hand choppy man is back for some ass kicking.

Skulltaker has the adamantium will special (locus gift), eternal warrior, 3+ armour save and a S:User AP3 choppy sword with the decapitating blow rule - wound of a 6+ is instant death.

Thanks to Skulltaker's setup he is excellent in challenges and luckily for him he has taken a page out of the CSM codex and must issue and accept challenges.

Fortunately Skulltaker can take a Juggernaut for 45 points, that's 145 points for a choppy fast moving HQ killer which is now T5 W3 and coming at you with 6 attacks on the charge at WS9!

Summary

I am really digging Skulltaker and think he is probably better than Skarbrand and a Bloodthirster - did I say that out loud? . Skulltaker can take some damage, get to the fight quickly and will destroy enemy characters in a heartbeat and only costs 145 points.

Take Skulltaker in a unit of Bloodcrushers, they can zoom up the field escorting Skulltaker and then Skulltaker can split off. If you want to do it cheaper then take Flesh Hounds, which will give some psychic defence for Skulltaker at least until he splits off.

Rating: 8.5/10

Karanak

Karanak is a nice little HQ for a reasonable points cost.

Karanak has a locus ability which gives rage to himself and his unit, very handy for something which has 4 attacks base. Add in hatred and you're re-rolling all misses on the first round of combat.

Naturally Karanak is a beast and also has scout so can easily join up with a unit of Flesh Hounds.

Karanak has a funky rule which allows to re-roll failed to hits and to wound models against an enemy character, excellent for warlord killing.

Lastly, Karanak has a collar of khorne (+2 to deny the witch rolls) but this collar also makes any enemy psyker units within 12" suffer a perils whenever a double is rolled.

Summary

Karanak is a cool customer but unfortunately takes up a valuable HQ slot and really should be an upgrade character like in the previous codex. I cannot see a blood seeking daemon hound leading an army to war.

You could use Karanak for warlord kills, though Karanak costs 120 points and this dedicated roll is expensive just to earn a single point.

Rating: 6/10

The Changeling

As cheap as the Changeling is I really cannot see the point in this model taking a HQ slot and also costing 75 points for a W2 5+ HQ is too much.

You get the locus which gives some Blue Horror tokens when you take unsaved wounds in combat, meh as the Blue Horrors are only S2 I1.

The Changeling is a mastery level 1 psyker and can generate power from the change table, these powers are pretty random and can give feel no pain to the enemy units, so meh.

The Changeling has a funky ability which works when in assault and in base to base contact, which the Changeling may switch weapon skill, strength, toughness, initiative and/or attacks to match chosen foe. It's a different gimmick but doesn't change armour save or wounds.

Summary

The Changeling is a gimmick unit with an ability which only works in close combat, which is the Changeling's weakness and will surely get face planted. Really a waste of a HQ slot.

Rating: 3/10

Blue Scribes

The Blue Scribes are like the Changeling, random, costly and pretty weak profile wise, though they are a T4 jetbike.

The Blue Scribes have gimmick rules; one they get a counter for each enemy psychic power cast, for each counter roll a D6 and on a 6+ a friendly psyker within 12" of the Blue Scribes gain a warp charge point.

The other rule is you chose a discipline from the rulebook and randomly roll (you cannot take primaris powers), strangely these powers do not use warp charge points and cast automatically.

Summary

Another expensive weak HQ choice. I can only see this being useful in a highly psychic army and working well against a heavy psyker army i.e Grey Knights. If not the Blue Scribes lose half of their gimmick purpose.

Rating: 3/10

Epidemius

Epidemius is like a Plaguebearer on steroids! This guy is WS5, S5, T5, W4, I4 A4 almost a Great Unclean One!

Epi has a plaguesword, which is pretty cool in its own right (4+ poison and 6+ to glance vehicles), but Epi's locus makes his weapons (and units) 2+ poison, swell!

Epidemius' main gimmick is the tally, which when Nurgle Daemons inflict the smackdown you get various bonuses i.e +1 strength, 4+ feel no pain etc. Though these benefits are only passed out to units within 6", so a very tight bubble. I might be wrong but I do believe Epidemius has been nerfed in this edition with the tally.

Summary

Epidemius is a nice gimmick HQ but the benefit bubble is too small and really should be double size. With the right list Epidemius may work.

You could deep strike Epidemius down and deep strike Great Unclean Ones and several Plaguebearers for support. Then have Beasts of Nurgle and Soul Grinders sitting back so you have half your army on the board etc. Beasts can run up (maybe Rot Fly things as well?) while Soul Grinders blast, then Plaguebearers and Fatty-Dirty Daemons benefit from the tally.

Rating: 6.5/10

The Masque

The Masque has taken a 25 point decrease in the new Chaos Daemon codex. Also had a buff as now S4 and I believe an extra attack or two as well. I think ballistic skill has changed as well.

In the previous codex the Masque had pavane of slaanesh and could fire it three times and three different units. The pavane allowed you to move enemy models D6". This has now long gone, but you get other fiddly abilities instead. The Masque has a rule called the eternal dance and at the start of each controlling player's shooting phases the Masques get to dance her clogs off. Here's what they do:

You can issue a -5 weapon skill on a enemy unit and the enemy unit can only move, run, charge and fall back D3"

Enemy unit suffers number of S1 AP2 hits equal to the models in the unit, no cover or armour saves allowed.

Enemy unit suffers -5 ballistic skill and cannot fire overwatch.

In addition to all the jiggery pokery the Masque can also re-roll failed invulnerable saves.

Summary

The Masque is a pretty cheap HQ which has some use for disrupting your opponent, unfortunately the Masque is only T3 and has a 5+ and re-rollable or not she is gonna go down.

Also note the Masque isn't a herald so will take up a single HQ slot, so no 2 for 1 herald deals.

Rating: 4/10

Overall Summary

Skarbrand is very killy there's no doubt about it, but I would probably take a Blood Thirster which costs (about) the same, also you can get greater rewards for the Blood Thirster which make it more survivable. Deep striking is the answer for Skarbrand as slow and you want to get him in the fight quickly.

Fateweaver is an expensive HQ choice and is reasonably durable. You can get some good buffs for your army or units with divination or make Fatey survivable with biomancy. I am not sure if worth the points tag. I think play testing is required.

Ku'Gath is a gimmick unit with funky powers. More killy than a Great Unclean One at range, but a lot more costly.

Skulltaker is a cool warlord/HQ slayer and costs a reasonable 145 points. This guy is strong competition against a Bloodthirster. Expect to see Skulltaker often in your area among Daemon players.

Karanak, like Skulltaker is pretty cool, but I don't think Karanak is worth the HQ slot and will lose out to Skulltaker or a Bloodthirster.

The Changeling and Blue Scribes are pretty meh, I would go as far to say Changeling is junk. Blue Scribes are too random to do anything with.

Epidemius is interesting and can work in a Nurgle mono army with the right units. Has got seriously nerfed from the last codex.

Masque is just a gimmick unit and has been mega nerfed. I wouldn't expect her to survive more than 5 minutes.

This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2013/03/18 13:52:26


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Great write up.
IMHO the GUO has a few nice perks that you don't touch on. With 2 greater rewards and biomancy rolls, he can become nigh unkillable.
This is extremely useful as it gives the following perks.

* Your almost guaranteed to 'contest' at least one objective
* You can squat onto the relic and make it extremely hard for the enemy to pick up. Just stay 1" from it, and noone else can get there to pick it up.
* If hes your warlord, it makes it very difficult to get 'slay the warlord' from you.
* You can use him to almost always get 'linebreaker'

The first two traits can be extremely useful to win the primary mission. Some primaries won't matter, like when there are 6 objectives.
The second two traits are extremely useful if the primaries are tied. I find this is often the case in competitive games, and the game goes down to 'first blood', 'linebreaker' and 'slay the warlord'


Edit :
I also think your selling the heralds short. One of their best perks is the ability to act as force multipliers. For example, a tzeentch herald that's a level 2 psyker with a foci can vastly improve the dakka of a squad of horrors. It can add the following
* Increase damage output from 4d6 to 6d6 (by the herald casting flickering fire as well)
* Double hits by casting 'prescience' on the squad
* Increase STR of hits to 6.

Slaanesh heralds can take the foci that lets the re-roll 'to hits' in assault. This increases the average number of hits from 2/3 to 8/9. Thats a very strong perk.
Khorne heralds can give bloodletters 3 attacks on the charge
Nurgle heralds can give FNP to the squad, etc etc etc

Each of those are significant force multipliers that make the unit as a whole better.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/07 13:31:14


 
   
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Australia

Pretty sure if 20 horrors are firing they fire 4d6 rather than 3d6. In your overall summary you listed their shots as str 4 also.

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labmouse42 wrote:Great write up.
IMHO the GUO has a few nice perks that you don't touch on. With 2 greater rewards and biomancy rolls, he can become nigh unkillable.
This is extremely useful as it gives the following perks.

* Your almost guaranteed to 'contest' at least one objective
* You can squat onto the relic and make it extremely hard for the enemy to pick up. Just stay 1" from it, and noone else can get there to pick it up.
* If hes your warlord, it makes it very difficult to get 'slay the warlord' from you.
* You can use him to almost always get 'linebreaker'

The first two traits can be extremely useful to win the primary mission. Some primaries won't matter, like when there are 6 objectives.
The second two traits are extremely useful if the primaries are tied. I find this is often the case in competitive games, and the game goes down to 'first blood', 'linebreaker' and 'slay the warlord'


Edit :
I also think your selling the heralds short. One of their best perks is the ability to act as force multipliers. For example, a tzeentch herald that's a level 2 psyker with a foci can vastly improve the dakka of a squad of horrors. It can add the following
* Increase damage output from 4d6 to 6d6 (by the herald casting flickering fire as well)
* Double hits by casting 'prescience' on the squad
* Increase STR of hits to 6.

Slaanesh heralds can take the foci that lets the re-roll 'to hits' in assault. This increases the average number of hits from 2/3 to 8/9. Thats a very strong perk.
Khorne heralds can give bloodletters 3 attacks on the charge
Nurgle heralds can give FNP to the squad, etc etc etc

Each of those are significant force multipliers that make the unit as a whole better.


Good points on the GuO. I didn't mention them as I thought those things would have been obvious, especially considering I mentioned about dropping in in the opponent's face. Still good points though

I mentioned those things about the HoT

Mentioned all those things about the Heralds maybe I don't appreciate them as much as others maybe?

Glad you enjoyed the write up though and some great input from yourself.

Xeriapt wrote:Pretty sure if 20 horrors are firing they fire 4d6 rather than 3d6. In your overall summary you listed their shots as str 4 also.


That's for their funky banner

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 mercer wrote:
I


The Daemonettes aren't too bad, though I still worry about their lower toughness and invulnerable save and I can see them just not making combat or when they do they won't have enough numbers.

For example 10 Daemonettes charge 10 Tactical Marines. The Daemonettes strike first 30 attacks - hit with 20 - wound with 7 (one rend) - 2 dead Tacticals plus the rend = 3 dead Tactical Marines.

The Tacticals strike back with 9 attacks (Sgt) - hit with 5 - wound with 3 - 2 dead Daemonettes.

I think next turn the combat maybe a draw, if not Daemonettes may pull a victory.

Rating: 6.5/10


So what you're saying is that if you take 90 pts of Daemonettes versus 150 pts of SM, then reduce the Daemonettes' combat capacity due to faulty math, they still win the combat?



Little higher than 6.5, methinks.

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 mercer wrote:


That's for their funky banner


I would have thought this was referring to their PSA not the banner.

 mercer wrote:

Pink Horror is an interesting unit and fairly costs. Can be unreliable with the primaris psychic power (3D6 assault S4 if using 20 Horrors) and the general Tzeentch powers aren't mega reliable either. I would say the Pink Horrors are just meh and that's all they will ever be. The exalted locus from a Herald maybe useful, though adds up in points just to get a +1 strength bonus.

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One thing to note is that most of the psykers don't have to take any powers from their "mark". So a LOC could take nothing but Divination powers. Daemon Princes can take powers from their "mark", Biomancy, Telepathy, and Pyromancy. This makes LOC's and Princes very nice as they can get the bonuses for being Tzeentch, but not have to choose any of the mediocre powers from the Change list.

And the Staff of Change on a LOC makes them stronger than a Bloodthirster (with a nice "Tesla" like explosion).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 15:27:58


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 gorgon wrote:
 mercer wrote:
I


The Daemonettes aren't too bad, though I still worry about their lower toughness and invulnerable save and I can see them just not making combat or when they do they won't have enough numbers.

For example 10 Daemonettes charge 10 Tactical Marines. The Daemonettes strike first 30 attacks - hit with 20 - wound with 7 (one rend) - 2 dead Tacticals plus the rend = 3 dead Tactical Marines.

The Tacticals strike back with 9 attacks (Sgt) - hit with 5 - wound with 3 - 2 dead Daemonettes.

I think next turn the combat maybe a draw, if not Daemonettes may pull a victory.

Rating: 6.5/10


So what you're saying is that if you take 90 pts of Daemonettes versus 150 pts of SM, then reduce the Daemonettes' combat capacity due to faulty math, they still win the combat?



Little higher than 6.5, methinks.
Yea the math is off.

10 daemonettes get 31 attacks on the charge. (including the Alluress)
31 * .66667 (to hit) * .16667 (rends) = .34444 wounds +
31 * .66667 (to hit) * .16667 (wounds) * .33333 (failed save) = 1.148 wounds = 4.59 dead MEQ round 1.

Your remaining MEQ strike back and will kill 1.3339 daemonettes
On round 2, the daemonettes will kill another 2.51 MEQ. The MEQ will kill another .666 daemonettes.
On round 3, the daemonettes will kill another 2.22 MEQ. The MEQ will kill another .4444 daemonettes
On round 4, the daemonettes will kill the last MEQ. A total of 2-3 daemonettes will have died total.

That is without any buffs, heralds, banners, etc. All those dramatically change the equasion. Simply put, you don't want to get in assault with daemons.
   
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I disagree with a lot of the ratings.

The DP gives you the option to have a lvl 3 MC start on the table with Biomancy and be able to redeploy. While the GOU is excellent his placement could be problematic or he has to deepstrike in which case you're not going to be buffed on the turn you arrive.

Heralds of Tzeentch and Slaanesh are seriously undersold in their abilities to enhance units. The Tzeentch heralds act as psychic batteries to enhance your whole force while giving you a brick with a ridiculous number of St6. shots. Something able to also drop light flyers. The Slaanesh herald on a steed with a greater gift with steeds equals the ability to erase blob squads.

And your completely discounting the Aether Blade on Heralds of Slaanesh. 5-6 (depending on if you mount it on a steed) WS7 St5 I6 AP2 attacks that re-roll to hit for 95-110pts is pretty damn huge.

Personally this isn't a book you can break down by unit for a review. Much like the other 6th edition codexes (probably more so) this is a book to take as a whole. Interactions with other units is where the power in this book is. Not single units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 16:59:18


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 gorgon wrote:
 mercer wrote:
I


The Daemonettes aren't too bad, though I still worry about their lower toughness and invulnerable save and I can see them just not making combat or when they do they won't have enough numbers.

For example 10 Daemonettes charge 10 Tactical Marines. The Daemonettes strike first 30 attacks - hit with 20 - wound with 7 (one rend) - 2 dead Tacticals plus the rend = 3 dead Tactical Marines.

The Tacticals strike back with 9 attacks (Sgt) - hit with 5 - wound with 3 - 2 dead Daemonettes.

I think next turn the combat maybe a draw, if not Daemonettes may pull a victory.

Rating: 6.5/10


So what you're saying is that if you take 90 pts of Daemonettes versus 150 pts of SM, then reduce the Daemonettes' combat capacity due to faulty math, they still win the combat?



Little higher than 6.5, methinks.


How is my maths faulty? The Daemonettes get 2 attacks base +1 fo charging which is 3 each and a total of 30 attacks. They will hit with 20 and then wound with 6.6, so round up to 7.

Is there something I missed?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xeriapt wrote:
 mercer wrote:


That's for their funky banner


I would have thought this was referring to their PSA not the banner.

 mercer wrote:

Pink Horror is an interesting unit and fairly costs. Can be unreliable with the primaris psychic power (3D6 assault S4 if using 20 Horrors) and the general Tzeentch powers aren't mega reliable either. I would say the Pink Horrors are just meh and that's all they will ever be. The exalted locus from a Herald maybe useful, though adds up in points just to get a +1 strength bonus.


I apologise, I thought I had editted that, well I have now - thanks for spotting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
airmang wrote:One thing to note is that most of the psykers don't have to take any powers from their "mark". So a LOC could take nothing but Divination powers. Daemon Princes can take powers from their "mark", Biomancy, Telepathy, and Pyromancy. This makes LOC's and Princes very nice as they can get the bonuses for being Tzeentch, but not have to choose any of the mediocre powers from the Change list.

And the Staff of Change on a LOC makes them stronger than a Bloodthirster (with a nice "Tesla" like explosion).


Pretty sure I mentioned about biomancy for GuO; T10? oh yes - that's not meant to sound like a dick btw, I was having a lol at T10

labmouse42 wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
 mercer wrote:
I


The Daemonettes aren't too bad, though I still worry about their lower toughness and invulnerable save and I can see them just not making combat or when they do they won't have enough numbers.

For example 10 Daemonettes charge 10 Tactical Marines. The Daemonettes strike first 30 attacks - hit with 20 - wound with 7 (one rend) - 2 dead Tacticals plus the rend = 3 dead Tactical Marines.

The Tacticals strike back with 9 attacks (Sgt) - hit with 5 - wound with 3 - 2 dead Daemonettes.

I think next turn the combat maybe a draw, if not Daemonettes may pull a victory.

Rating: 6.5/10


So what you're saying is that if you take 90 pts of Daemonettes versus 150 pts of SM, then reduce the Daemonettes' combat capacity due to faulty math, they still win the combat?



Little higher than 6.5, methinks.
Yea the math is off.

10 daemonettes get 31 attacks on the charge. (including the Alluress)
31 * .66667 (to hit) * .16667 (rends) = .34444 wounds +
31 * .66667 (to hit) * .16667 (wounds) * .33333 (failed save) = 1.148 wounds = 4.59 dead MEQ round 1.

Your remaining MEQ strike back and will kill 1.3339 daemonettes
On round 2, the daemonettes will kill another 2.51 MEQ. The MEQ will kill another .666 daemonettes.
On round 3, the daemonettes will kill another 2.22 MEQ. The MEQ will kill another .4444 daemonettes
On round 4, the daemonettes will kill the last MEQ. A total of 2-3 daemonettes will have died total.

That is without any buffs, heralds, banners, etc. All those dramatically change the equasion. Simply put, you don't want to get in assault with daemons.


I never included an Alluress that's why only 30 attacks.

I am not also following your maths



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Hulksmash wrote:
I disagree with a lot of the ratings.

The DP gives you the option to have a lvl 3 MC start on the table with Biomancy and be able to redeploy. While the GOU is excellent his placement could be problematic or he has to deepstrike in which case you're not going to be buffed on the turn you arrive.

Heralds of Tzeentch and Slaanesh are seriously undersold in their abilities to enhance units. The Tzeentch heralds act as psychic batteries to enhance your whole force while giving you a brick with a ridiculous number of St6. shots. Something able to also drop light flyers. The Slaanesh herald on a steed with a greater gift with steeds equals the ability to erase blob squads.

And your completely discounting the Aether Blade on Heralds of Slaanesh. 5-6 (depending on if you mount it on a steed) WS7 St5 I6 AP2 attacks that re-roll to hit for 95-110pts is pretty damn huge.

Personally this isn't a book you can break down by unit for a review. Much like the other 6th edition codexes (probably more so) this is a book to take as a whole. Interactions with other units is where the power in this book is. Not single units.


Very true about the Daemon Prince, but that's like 220 points before anything else. You need to wings to get it into combat boosting up the points even more. What exactly is the Prince going to do besides close combat? Personally I'd rather take the GuO for cheaper and deep strike in.

I am pretty sure I mentioned the S6 shots..why do you mean psychic batteries?

I also mentioned the etherblade on the Herald of Slaanesh along with the loci for no refusing of challenges.

And yes, the book works as whole, however the review gains a more understanding of units and you can see how they work together.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/03/07 17:16:02


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 mercer wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
 mercer wrote:
I


The Daemonettes aren't too bad, though I still worry about their lower toughness and invulnerable save and I can see them just not making combat or when they do they won't have enough numbers.

For example 10 Daemonettes charge 10 Tactical Marines. The Daemonettes strike first 30 attacks - hit with 20 - wound with 7 (one rend) - 2 dead Tacticals plus the rend = 3 dead Tactical Marines.

The Tacticals strike back with 9 attacks (Sgt) - hit with 5 - wound with 3 - 2 dead Daemonettes.

I think next turn the combat maybe a draw, if not Daemonettes may pull a victory.

Rating: 6.5/10


So what you're saying is that if you take 90 pts of Daemonettes versus 150 pts of SM, then reduce the Daemonettes' combat capacity due to faulty math, they still win the combat?



Little higher than 6.5, methinks.


How is my maths faulty? The Daemonettes get 2 attacks base +1 fo charging which is 3 each and a total of 30 attacks. They will hit with 20 and then wound with 6.6, so round up to 7.

Is there something I missed?


Yes. They wound on 5s and 6s against marines. Half of their wounds(3.4ish) will be rends. Not one. At 95 points(I like the alluress) they will murder everything(that doesn't shoot them first)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 17:25:57


 
   
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 mercer wrote:
I never included an Alluress that's why only 30 attacks.

I am not also following your maths
Happy to help out I talk a lot about mathhammer on my blog , and sometimes I forget that people don't always follow along.

So you can't just say 'Well, unit X got 20 hits, and they wound on a 5, so thats 3 wounds'. Your shorting the unit. Therefore the best solution to determine the amount of wounds a unit delivers per turn is to use the following forumla.
Attacks * (Chance to HIt) * (Chance to Wound) * (Failed Save) * (Failed FNP)
The best way to do this is to open up your friendly neighborhood excel program and plug in the values.

Now, for the rending attacks were going to have some hits that give an armor save and some that don't. We know that on a 'to wound' roll of a 6, we don't give saves, so we will extract .166667 wounds at 'rending' without a save. The remaining wounds will give a save. Since the daemonettes are STR 3, they happen to have half the wounds rend and half of them not rend.
Number of Attacks = 31
Chance to hit = .66667
Chance to wound = .166667
Chance of failed save= 100% (or 1)
So our end math for the rending hits is
31 * .6667 * .16667 * 1 = 3.44444

Now you add your rending wounds to your non-rending wounds, and that is your total amount of wounds done by the daemonette in one round.
The problem is those are averages. As we all know, your unit might vastly under or overperform. Last weekend I had a DP make ten 3+ saves in a row. My GK opponent made nine 4+ saves in a row for his vehicles. Math will only take you so far, but it does give you a decent judge on what units can hurt what.

The bottom line is "TACs suck in assault" Their quite embarassingly bad at it. To get a better representation, you sould put the daemonettes vs something like GK.
   
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@labmouse - Lab's calculations are correct and that is the way I do it for Expect Value as well.

I do not really like the Expected Value formulation through for wounds. I think a better measure is to look at the probability distribution of the output determine the 90% confidence for a specified number of expected MEQ deaths.

Edit: @ Mercer
Your math took the number of total wounds (1/3 of 20) and then assumed they had a 1 in 6 chance to be a rend. In actuality, this is a conditional probability. Given you have caused a wound - which requires a 5 or 6, what is the expected number of 6's. Since there are 7 wounds and the chance to roll a 5 or 6 is equal, half of those are expected to be rends.

@Hulksmash - I completely agree with your assessment on the ratings. I disagree with a number of them since they seem to only consider the raw damage output of a particular unit. For example, I would not take a Lord of Change to throw down a ton of shooting - he should be there to move forward with your troops and provide divination buffs.

Check the FAQ though for Deep Striking - you can choose the order of start of turn effects now. That means you can Deep Strike a unit and then case psychic powers on/with the unit.

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)

A: They do occursimultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what orderthese things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 17:52:02


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BS was added to all the models because the sergeants can take Lesser and Greater Rewards, which include shooting attacks as possibilities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 labmouse42 wrote:
Happy to help out I talk a lot about mathhammer on my blog , and sometimes I forget that people don't always follow along.


You forgot to include OW in your calculations, which would effect the overall result. I always calculate OW when figuring out how my units would do on the charge.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 20:12:39


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I think bloodletters are slightly underrated. Sure, they're fragile. But not more fragile than daemonettes. If you run their numbers for close combat, they look pretty brutal. 10 bloodletters vs those same 10 TACs will wipe out ~9 of them in the first round of combat. The only real problem is that bloodletters lack the speed advantage of daemonettes, but this can be made up for by the banner.
   
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Finally got to go through with a bit more fine toothed comb on the codex. I think a Keeper of Secrets cost is actually just right. For the same cost I used to run her (w/ Musk) I can get a Mastery 3 Psyker rolling on Telepathy with 5 wounds, a 5++ T6 who is a beast in CC.

That sounds pretty awesome to me - her uses change slightly with the powers she rolls, but that is just a beginning. Invisibility makes her terrible for opponents, Endurance makes her nearly as obnoxious.

This book is about synergy - and if anyone has not played against invisibility, let you opponent pick it off telepathy next time and you will see how brutal it can be.

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The fast attack and heavy support are where the codex really becomes scary, imo. Seekers and Flesh Hounds are absolutely insane...(I honestly think Seekers are downright broken).

Flesh Hounds are T4, 2 wound beasts with scout, fleet, furious charge, 2 attacks base, and WS 5 for a mere 16 points. They even have a 4+ deny the witch.

Seekers are significantly better (not that Flesh Hounds are bad). They're only 12 points per model. They run 6" + d6" with fleet and ignore terrain, so they'll be charging on turn 2 no matter where you are. 3 attacks base with rending, WS 5, Initiative 5...

To put that in perspective....20 Seekers + A Slaanesh Herald with a Seeker and Exalted Locus (330 points) will kill 17 MEQ on the charge. Imagine 3 of those units across the table. Under 1000 points of your army...63 bodies all with an invul save. You have ONE turn to shoot them due to their speed. They will easily wipe out any unit they attack.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/08 06:23:05


 
   
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Only downside with that many seekers is the monetary cost of 60 seekers.

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Siphen wrote:
The fast attack and heavy support are where the codex really becomes scary, imo. Seekers and Flesh Hounds are absolutely insane...(I honestly think Seekers are downright broken).


What is the consensus on Furies? Especially furies with the mark of slaanesh?

8 point models with fleet (that they do not lose after jumping 12") and rending. A squad of 20 comes in at 160 points. Very cheap. I think they have 2 attacks base. So 60 rending attacks on the charge?

While I still think flesh hounds are the best FA of the codex right now, I have yet to test any of them out yet.

Just my two cents.

 
   
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 Green is Best! wrote:
Siphen wrote:
The fast attack and heavy support are where the codex really becomes scary, imo. Seekers and Flesh Hounds are absolutely insane...(I honestly think Seekers are downright broken).


What is the consensus on Furies? Especially furies with the mark of slaanesh?

8 point models with fleet (that they do not lose after jumping 12") and rending. A squad of 20 comes in at 160 points. Very cheap. I think they have 2 attacks base. So 60 rending attacks on the charge?

While I still think flesh hounds are the best FA of the codex right now, I have yet to test any of them out yet.

Just my two cents.


They might be worth it if they had some decent models :p.

Indeed they are cheap and the slaanesh upgrade I think is the most useful for them. Their main downfall seems to be ludicrously low ld meaning they will get hit hard from instability if they cant deal lots of damage when they charge.
Massive improvement from previous codex for sure, I would say they are certainly worth considering.

The main competition for a fast attack slot for slaanesh furies would be seekers.

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I plan on using gargoyles with leftover daemonette heads and claws I have lying around. I want to see how that turns out before I commit to it though.

And, as for the low LD2, I agree. But, I see them being used in conjunction with flesh hounds to get in someone's face early while the rest of the army catches up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/08 13:17:23


 
   
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Siphen wrote:
The fast attack and heavy support are where the codex really becomes scary, imo. Seekers and Flesh Hounds are absolutely insane...(I honestly think Seekers are downright broken).
I agree with this statement.

The khorne dogs are less dangerous. How scared are you of BA assault marines? That's roughly how dangerous khorne dogs are. Two STR 4 attacks each is not the hotness that will demolish most squads. What make khorne dogs really good is they act as a great transport for a khorne herald on a jugg. That's a beatstick that will carry the dogs.

The dogs are also good because they can offer that turn 2 assault, and they are slightly more durable than the seekers. This means your more likely to get 'stuck in' if you have khorne dogs with your seekers.

Siphen wrote:
Seekers are significantly better (not that Flesh Hounds are bad). They're only 12 points per model. They run 6" + d6" with fleet and ignore terrain, so they'll be charging on turn 2 no matter where you are. 3 attacks base with rending, WS 5, Initiative 5...
Seekers still take wounds 1/6 of the time they are in terrain. You won't cut through difficult terrain unless you don't have another option, especially because the loci of beguilement is so good.

You are correct that seekers will destroy infantry they run across. If they can get a good charge off on blob guard, they will remove an entire blob in a round. (though they overwatch may be a real problem)

Seekers will also wreck any vehicles with an AV 10 on the rear. The sheer number of rending attacks will crush enemy vehicles. However they will bounce off land raiders -- which I expect to see more of in the near future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Green is Best! wrote:
While I still think flesh hounds are the best FA of the codex right now, .
As mentioned earlier, Khorne dogs I think work best in conjuntion with seekers.

I plan on running the following. This may change after some test games.
HQ
Slaanesh Herald w/Seeker, Lesser Gift, Locus of Beguilement
Karanak
Khrone Herlad w/Jugg, Lesser Gift, Greater Gift, Locus of Fury
Tzeentch Herald w/lvl 2 psyker, Locus of Conjuration, Disk

Troops
20 Daemonettes w/Aluress, Rapturous Standard
20 Daemonettes w/Aluress, Rapturous Standard
20 Bloodletters w/Readper, Banner of Blood
20 Horrors

Fast Attack
20 Seekers w/HeartSeeker
20 Khorne Dogs

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/08 13:51:24


 
   
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How much is that force in points Labmouse?

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 labmouse42 wrote:
 mercer wrote:
I never included an Alluress that's why only 30 attacks.

I am not also following your maths
Happy to help out I talk a lot about mathhammer on my blog , and sometimes I forget that people don't always follow along.

So you can't just say 'Well, unit X got 20 hits, and they wound on a 5, so thats 3 wounds'. Your shorting the unit. Therefore the best solution to determine the amount of wounds a unit delivers per turn is to use the following forumla.
Attacks * (Chance to HIt) * (Chance to Wound) * (Failed Save) * (Failed FNP)
The best way to do this is to open up your friendly neighborhood excel program and plug in the values.

Now, for the rending attacks were going to have some hits that give an armor save and some that don't. We know that on a 'to wound' roll of a 6, we don't give saves, so we will extract .166667 wounds at 'rending' without a save. The remaining wounds will give a save. Since the daemonettes are STR 3, they happen to have half the wounds rend and half of them not rend.
Number of Attacks = 31
Chance to hit = .66667
Chance to wound = .166667
Chance of failed save= 100% (or 1)
So our end math for the rending hits is
31 * .6667 * .16667 * 1 = 3.44444

Now you add your rending wounds to your non-rending wounds, and that is your total amount of wounds done by the daemonette in one round.
The problem is those are averages. As we all know, your unit might vastly under or overperform. Last weekend I had a DP make ten 3+ saves in a row. My GK opponent made nine 4+ saves in a row for his vehicles. Math will only take you so far, but it does give you a decent judge on what units can hurt what.

The bottom line is "TACs suck in assault" Their quite embarassingly bad at it. To get a better representation, you sould put the daemonettes vs something like GK.


I see how you have done it now. You've done it like on chance sort of thing will I have done mine on average.

Reason I did Tacticals is because they are the most common Marine, not everyone uses Grey Knights. I don't think Grey Knights would make a difference, well unless they are chargng, but that is not the case.

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Eldar - 2000 Hive Fleet Krakken - 2000 Dark Eldar - 2000 Necrons - 2000 Grey Knights - 2000 Daemons - 2000 Ravenwing - 2000 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

Sorry 1850. I have adepticon on my mind, and make every list with that point value.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 mercer wrote:
Reason I did Tacticals is because they are the most common Marine, not everyone uses Grey Knights. I don't think Grey Knights would make a difference, well unless they are chargng, but that is not the case.
You know, I've not been seeing many marines lately. I occasionally still see the SW drop pod army, but they are less common.

Helldrakes have changed the meta so much that I'm just not seeing many foot based MEQ armies. Those MEQ armies I do see are DA land raider/bolter banners armies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/08 14:05:29


 
   
Made in gb
Tower of Power






Cannock

Added elites.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 labmouse42 wrote:
You know, I've not been seeing many marines lately. I occasionally still see the SW drop pod army, but they are less common.

Helldrakes have changed the meta so much that I'm just not seeing many foot based MEQ armies. Those MEQ armies I do see are DA land raider/bolter banners armies.


Meh, not sure why people worry about a single unit in just one army. I know it is badass, but not like a huge changer. I haven't seen any Cruader-Banner armies yet, though I have seen a Banner-Ravenwing - that gak is deadly!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/08 14:11:35


warhammer 40,000 tactica and hobby blog - www.imperiusdominatus.com

Want list feedback and advice? e-mail imperiusdominatus@live.co.uk

Blood Angels - 2000 Iron Warriors - 2000 Orks -2000 Imperial Guard - 2000
Eldar - 2000 Hive Fleet Krakken - 2000 Dark Eldar - 2000 Necrons - 2000 Grey Knights - 2000 Daemons - 2000 Ravenwing - 2000 
   
Made in us
Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





Moon Township, PA

 mercer wrote:
Added elites.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 labmouse42 wrote:
You know, I've not been seeing many marines lately. I occasionally still see the SW drop pod army, but they are less common.

Helldrakes have changed the meta so much that I'm just not seeing many foot based MEQ armies. Those MEQ armies I do see are DA land raider/bolter banners armies.


Meh, not sure why people worry about a single unit in just one army. I know it is badass, but not like a huge changer. I haven't seen any Cruader-Banner armies yet, though I have seen a Banner-Ravenwing - that gak is deadly!


I went up against one that had 30+ bikes and the banner that made all bolters salvo 2/4. That is 4 twin-linked shots per bike. It was pretty mean. It did not help that I rolled snake eyes for my helldrakes on turn 2 reserves. Was a very painful game.

 
   
 
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