Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Veskrashen wrote:
From the Warseer forums:

superawesomeraptorman wrote:
All I was told is there railgun goes down to strength 8, stays AP1, no more A.S.S, can purchase skyfire (its not super cheap). I don't know how that affects broadsides overall costing though. I also foolishly didn't ask about whether they get both interceptor and skyfire or just skyfire.

Also I can't quite remember but there MIGHT be an option to increase HQ suits to toughness 5.

S8 AP1 "light railguns" with Skyfire would murder a whole lot of things. Broadsides might no longer be the ultimate AV13/14 hunters they are today, but could murder a whole lot of things anyway - to include every single flyer out there, Storm Ravens / Vendettas / Hellturkies included.

If you mounted 1-2 of these on a Tau flyer, it'd pretty much be the ultimate anti-air flyer available at the moment, especially if it ended up with Vector Dancer or something similar. It'd also be amazing against pretty much every land-based armor that's not a Land Raider. That's just wishlisting a bit though.

neko wrote:I believe the anti-air drones are carried by one of the aircraft. An airbourne equivilent to the Devilfish is my understanding.

Maybe my wishlisting isn't that wishful... then again, could easily be a Rail Rifle equivalent instead of a S8 AP1 "light railgun".

T5 would be such a boon for our Shas'el/'o crisis commanders...finally no ID from melta spam!

Amen on the S8 AP1 Skyfire light railgun.

As for the anti-air drone carrying aircraft, that sounds like the Tigershark (not the A-X-10 model with the heavy railguns), which is an Apoc flyer that carries Remoras. That could be some wires crossed with the rumored GW Apoc update coming sometime this year, which could possibly (and I'm really wishlisting here) mean a plastic Tigershark kit. I don't forsee this being a part of the Tau Codex release, IMHO, as it doesn't fit in very well with the other rumors of the Tau flyer.

 Rented Tritium wrote:
It's always possible that the skyfire upgrade itself is what lowers the strength.

That is what I was kind of wondering. S10 direct fire, S8 if used in skyfire mode, since the Hammerhead rail gun has 2 firing options, why not the Broadside rail guns as well?

As for the anti-air drone carrying aircraft, that sounds like the Tigershark (not the A-X-10 model with the heavy railguns), which is an Apoc flyer that carries Remoras. That could be some wires crossed with the rumored GW Apoc update coming sometime this year, which could possibly (and I'm really wishlisting here) mean a plastic Tigershark kit. I don't forsee this being a part of the Tau Codex release, IMHO, as it doesn't fit in very well with the other rumors of the Tau flyer.

That response from Neko was in regards to the "Sky Sniper Drone" reference in the latest BL novel. Another poster asked if it was Barracuda style or Tigershark style. His response that it's an airborne Devilfish equivalent makes me think it's more along the lines of how the Barracuda is set up rather than being a Remora carrier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hokieseas wrote:

 Rented Tritium wrote:
It's always possible that the skyfire upgrade itself is what lowers the strength.

That is what I was kind of wondering. S10 direct fire, S8 if used in skyfire mode, since the Hammerhead rail gun has 2 firing options, why not the Broadside rail guns as well?

But the Skyfire upgrade is supposedly a piece of wargear, and thus not tied to just the "light railgun".

Pure speculation: if they're pulling the Broadside models, and redoing the Crisis models, and we're hearing about XV8 variants, and we've heard about Crisis suits as troop choices... could we see another multi-kit box that has an Elite version, Heavy version, and Troops versions of battlesuits? With various weapons options for each one?

So there'd be a basic Troop suit with like BC/MP/MT, then for XX points you could replace one gun or the other with a Plasma / Melta / Flamer on X suits per squad, and the Team Lead could take XYZ wargear. Then the Elite version can carry more special weapons per squad or per suit. And a Heavy version that carries the new "light railguns" or ion cannons.

S8 is truly disappointing if it turns out to be true. How reliable is melta outside of meltagun range, anyways? Heck, for a weapon we NEED to pen with, it can have trouble with rhinos and chimeras. S8 single shot means it can quite easily just fail to do anything to a 35 point transport. Only 3/16 shots even destroy a rhino. 5 broadsides for a (mostly) guaranteed kill! As opposed to their current incarnation's 3 broadsides. S8 really just makes broadsides irrelevant, even for AA. Unless they go down to 50 pointsor so, including wargear, s8 makes them pure garbage.

uberjoras wrote:
S8 is truly disappointing if it turns out to be true. How reliable is melta outside of meltagun range, anyways? Heck, for a weapon we NEED to pen with, it can have trouble with rhinos and chimeras. S8 single shot means it can quite easily just fail to do anything to a 35 point transport. Only 3/16 shots even destroy a rhino. 5 broadsides for a (mostly) guaranteed kill! As opposed to their current incarnation's 3 broadsides. S8 really just makes broadsides irrelevant, even for AA. Unless they go down to 50 pointsor so, including wargear, s8 makes them pure garbage.

S8 AP1 isn't useless at all. I wouldn't pay 80pts for a single twin-linked shot, no, but it's far from useless. IMO it's about as good as a lascannon, and people take those by the bucketload. You may not get the extra D6 that melta at half range does, but things you do pen go boom just as well. Besides, if you take the rumor that A.S.S. is being removed, along with the rumor that some kind of upgrade lets you take an extra shot at max range if you don't move, then maybe the new Broadsides will have Relentless (even if it doesn't have a jet pack), allowing it to move and shoot it's "light railgun", then shoot twice with the undefined upgrade.

Lots of possibilities here. Again, it doesn't have to fill the same role it used to, it just needs to be good at whatever role it does get in order to be worthwhile.

The problem with the light railgun/lascannon comparison is that other armies aren't exactly limited in their ability to take lascannons. For Tau railguns and the majority of anti-armor power comes from railguns. There has been a few rumors that point towards a flyer getting a single railgun as an expensive upgrade.

The problem with the idea of nerfing the broadside is something I've suspected was going to be an issue when Tau got updated. Many Tau players only have the few units that were actually usable in the codex (ie battlesuits, broadsides, FW, Kroot, and Hammerheads). Now you're talking about a nerf to one of the staples just to make another unit seem better or to give it the broadsides old role, or basically making a large selection of an army's models (very expensive models at that) less effective. That's why I'm concerned at least, and I don't think I could be so accepting of the idea that the company has to make money.

Basically it boils down to this for me; Elites and Fast Attack needed more options to S8 and HS did not need less access to S10.

Totally agree that a lot of Tau players are going to get boned by a Broadside with S8 railguns, as that was their only real anti-armor capability. You're also right that it was a testament to how narrow the old codex has become in those terms - we only had 3 HS slots to work with to deal with any armor threat over AV11.

I'm betting that we'll get more options spread across the codex as a result of that - not just FA/Elites, but probably Troops as well. It never really made sense that Tau had literally no ability to deal with anything over AV11 in the Troops section of the codex.

In some ways it's the same deal (to me, at least) as the whole Flamers / Screamers issue - they were essentially autospammed due to how good they were at what they did - Broadsides had the same basic characteristic.

Though, flamers/screamers werent the only efficient way to deal with their particular threat, and nobody was whining about broadsides. 3 of them cost about as much as a land raider, and could probably kill it before it dumped it's contents, unless it had smoke launchers. Who'd have thought a unit meant to deal with armor was *gasp* good at dealing with armor? This sounds like the "early playtest" rumors in the other threads, and GW is probably just following what gets through to see who to fire. Like a wise doctor once said, "you need salt in your diet", and I don't think we should forsake the wise doctor just yet.

 pretre wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I heard that both FW and XV8 suits were not getting new kits too, just a sprue addition in each.

As for the Uber Suit, I've heard that it looks like Saturn from Borderlands 2.

If that is the case, I'll be all over that.

Is this a new rumor from you, P? Or did you see this on another site?

For those who don't play BL2, Saturn is a pretty standard standing mech with Arm Weapons and Missile Pods on the shoulders:

I wouldnt mind it looking like that.
Beside, Riptide sounds awesome.

The only reason I never started a tau army was the boxy suits compared to the round everything else. If they fix that then i will be happy. If the suits just get repacked then I might do forgeworld, but will probably just skip the whole thing. I have a tau heavy walker from chapterhouse that's been sitting idol, I'd love to get it moving.

Hmm dpods only +1 cover save? I wonder if they got rid of the 12inch< rule.

From Faeit 212:

Tau are getting close, and I had another confirmation last night that they are indeed coming in April. If this doesn't start to get everyone excited for Tau, I don't know what will.

So Kroothawk may be right after all, good show if this turns out to be true

Now for the main rumor:

via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks)
Broadsides - 85 pts with S8 Ap1 Skyfire; not sure if this is in place of old S10 AP1 or if the 85 points + skyfire is an option but its there
Hammerheads - regardless of what Railguns are now in general, keeps S10 AP1
SMS - twin-linked, ignores cover
Crisis Suits - not likely to move to Troops as an option
Disruption Pods - only +1 cover

via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks) wrote:
Broadsides - 85 pts with S8 Ap1 Skyfire; not sure if this is in place of old S10 AP1 or if the 85 points + skyfire is an option but its there
Hammerheads - regardless of what Railguns are now in general, keeps S10 AP1
SMS - twin-linked, ignores cover
Crisis Suits - not likely to move to Troops as an option
Disruption Pods - only +1 cover

85 points and probably about 15-20 points for the skyfire upgrade. So probably 65-70 points base. Paying about the same cost for a -2S gun. But they did upgrade SMS... so... there's that. I remember all the games where I thought to myself how I wish they'd tone down the Railguns and buff up the... missiles... that I went for many many games forgetting they were on the Broadside.

I'm trying to stay positive. But I don't think it's working.

Lets hope they dont charge 10 more points for Flakk upgrades like they did on on DA space marines. With no split shot on them, 25 points for Missile+Flakk is a very ineffective choice for anti-air.

They said 85 points for the railgun with skyfire. So I imagine that they're including the upgrade into that. Broadsides however do have the ability to split fire, so I wonder if they're going to take that away as well.

Shas'o_iceborn on Faeit212 was I guess adding on to the S8 Railgun with skyfire. So apparently it might be that you purchase a broadside as a bare suit, then upgrade it with the different weapons. So I guess there is a chance to bring a S8 skyfire only railgun or S10 railcannons without skyfire. I'm not sure, but I've always like the idea of a stock Broadsides and purchasing Primary and Secondary weapons.

I am just beaming. Yippeee new codex! New models! New units!

The broadside railguns won't displease me--I don't build my cadre to spam one good unit. S8 Railgun? Still got Piranhas, fusion blasters, High-density Sabot, EMP Grenades, and Railheads. I can still vector dance my remoras into the rear arc then light 'em up with a seeker. I can still deep strike a monat soulcleanse right behind some punk's leman and blow it up that way too. I can still infiltrate/outflank XV15s to where the enemy is vulnerable. There's lots of ways for Tau to engage armor and almost no way for them to fight fliers. Bring on these new rail guns if that's what they are to be.

Trouble "blowing up a rhino"? COME ON just glance it to death! With yer sidearm for chrisssakes. How many armies can use their basic gun as anti-armor?

This codex has literally taken seven years to come out and people are going to complain that Broadsides are taking a hit BEFORE they get a chance to see the rest of the book?

One unit, no matter how great or bad, doesn't make or break an army! Especially a Tau army which has to work TOGETHER in order to prevail! If S8 Railguns put you off the army then you don't deserve to play the best army (Tau) anyway

Some of these "rumors" are too close to what was wishilisted in other threads.

The grim dark future have never look so much grim dark for Tau as with these rumors, i will jump for now on the whine/negative thinking vagon, just in case.

Anyway, lets try to remember that these are just rumors, and as such, can be partially true, or false (True rumors are a legend). Being able to purchase AA units, its not something common, S 8 AP 1 72", its pretty damm strong actually, they might get Tank-Hunters or some other Special rule to bump them up as AA, or maybe not, we can just sit on our warm train of tear till we exhaust them, or start thinking "What would they bring to the codex if they make this change?". Its pretty much a given that new units will come, not just the new suits, Special Characters, Kroots, Vespid, Flyers that can make a difference even if we have to forfeit and abandon our beloved Broadsides, it`ll be painfull, but lets get it straight, change comes, and nobody its gonna like it, but we´ll have to adapt.

Such its the path of any Codex who needs a massive revision.

Disruption pods +1 to cover? still a 4+ on vehicles.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Disruption pods +1 to cover? still a 4+ on vehicles.

3+ if flat out, and or if obscured or in cover behind your own model(?)

as long as they kept it 5 points i think it is fair. also if the wording is +1 cover and not stealth, it also adds to night fighting.
Also im hoping they get rid of the within 12" rule and keep the upgrade simple.

otherwise im pretty sure everyone saw this coming.

I think the 12" disruption pod was more limiting than it was confusing. Every vehicle was encouraged to avoid getting in close, even when their weaponry put them in danger of losing their cover bonus (Piranha and Devilfish).

SMS getting twin-linked which makes sense since they're always shown as in pairs of two missile pods taped together. Ignoring cover is nice, but most of the time won't be really worth while.

Personally I'd be extremely disappointed if I couldn't take Crisis suits as Troops. I wonder what they would put in the troop slot if that were the case. I'd even be okay with Stealth Suits pending a point and rule change.

The Tau rumor kettle's boiling again. Can't wait to see what things look like when those earlier release White Dwarves hit the scanners

I can see Stealth suits finding their way to the Troops choices ala Necron Immortals.

I'd welcome that. A box of 5, a points cut, throw in some form of special weapons on the sprue and it's good to go.

via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks)

option to have all units with 6" fire overwatch - lots of dice rolling, little effect FTW
Fliers are AV10/11 with 6x S6/7 shots at BS3; not twin-linked
there is a tank commander
Tau vehicles can no longer fire as fast vehicles (i.e. multi-tracker upgrade gone/changed)
Riptide - name of ubersuit and is an Elite choice.

Elites choice?

Hmmmm... now either that is going to compete with XV8 or XV8 are going as Troops choices.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks)

option to have all units with 6" fire overwatch - lots of dice rolling, little effect FTW
Fliers are AV10/11 with 6x S6/7 shots at BS3; not twin-linked
there is a tank commander
Tau vehicles can no longer fire as fast vehicles (i.e. multi-tracker upgrade gone/changed)
Riptide - name of ubersuit and is an Elite choice.

These look like repeats of older rumors. I think I've seen everything here already.

Puscifer wrote:
I can see Stealth suits finding their way to the Troops choices ala Necron Immortals.

I'd welcome that. A box of 5, a points cut, throw in some form of special weapons on the sprue and it's good to go.

I can't possibly see them being troops. You'd have to take their shrouding away, because everyone would compain about 2+ cover save troops. Their weapons are already crap compared to our other troops, unless their really close to the enemy and have that amazing cover save. And they just make so much more sense as a fast attack choice.

The only troops I see being added are vespids. Close combat vespids named Spinewings. Pretty much Tau assault marines. Thats my guess.

Coyote81 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I can see Stealth suits finding their way to the Troops choices ala Necron Immortals.

I'd welcome that. A box of 5, a points cut, throw in some form of special weapons on the sprue and it's good to go.

I can't possibly see them being troops. You'd have to take their shrouding away, because everyone would compain about 2+ cover save troops. Their weapons are already crap compared to our other troops, unless their really close to the enemy and have that amazing cover save. And they just make so much more sense as a fast attack choice.

The only troops I see being added are vespids. Close combat vespids named Spinewings. Pretty much Tau assault marines. Thats my guess.

Cuz Daemons don't have those already?

I agree they should drop the shrouding too.

Oof. Those latest 3++ rumors make me a bit worried, tbh.

UberSuit being Elite, Crisis not moving to Troops, and Broadside railguns being S8 leaves a lot of competition (slot wise) for AT firepower. Especially if HHs lose their multitracker. Unless we see Crisis move to Troops, or get some other kinds of AT in the Troop slots, things get dicey very quickly.

That said, if XV8s do move to Troops, that sets up an interesting tradeoff - FWs for more bodies, or lower model count XV8 centric lists?