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RogueRegault wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Can anyone even really point out what makes the Tau "anime", besides the battlesuits? Honestly the only real anime influence I see are the mecha, so obviously Robotech, Gundam, etc., but what other anime do Tau remind you of?

At first release in 2001, the WD articles to support the new army had also an interview with the model designers and they said one of the sources of inspiration was anime.

Again, I know that, but what I want to know now is what anime influences do you guys see in them, besides mecha? Because at this point it sounds more like Tau are the "anime army" because of this little blurb from the designers and crisis suits, and nothing more.

If that's all that makes them "anime" then they aren't very anime.

Citing anime influences was the thing at the time. If you went San Diego Comic-con, the creators would mention being inspired by anime at panels. Then when people pressed for specifics at the Q&A, they'd say "Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll". EVERY SINGLE TIME. FOR A CHILDREN'S FANTASY CARTOON.

Which is the point I'm ultimately trying to get at. People keep insisting that Tau are "anime" and that's just that, and they really aren't. It's entirely possible the GW designers didn't even know what the feth they were talking about, and the only anime influence in the entire army are the battlesuits. And even then people get it wrong, as pointed out before. Crisis suits are "Gundam" despite looking almost nothing like them, for example.

So I really wish people would stop parroting "Tau are anime" and "Tau are Gundam" over and over because it's complete and utter nonsense. It's just the battlesuits, that's the only thing. Take away the battlesuits and I guarantee you'll be hard-pressed to think of what anime exactly they remind you of.

In any case I think I've just dragged this even more off-topic, so I guess I'll leave it at that. I have nothing else to contribute, I've made my thoughts on the models painfully clear and we have no more new stuff to go on so I'll be bowing out for the time being.

"Anime" is such a broad category that it can encompass far too much and could feasibly be used to justify anything.

I would posit that Crisis Suits are a bit of a blend of the mecha concept with Western aesthetics primarily being the order of the day.

The things that people most commonly point to are the streamlined/high-tech look of Tau vehicles, the "mecha" style Crisis Suits being a core unit, and Eastern influence on the armor design for Fire Warriors, the army's core Troops unit.

that's my take on it...
Tau are mecha-light...
whatever you want to call them, i love me some battlesuits...
bring on the Riptide, and the new Broadside...
they look like great painting projects...

cheers
jah

 Compel wrote:
It is relatively common (in the UK at least) to give some easter spending money to kids alongside their eggs.

Not in my family so don't tell my daughter that! However she will be in Japan anyway.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

But it show us one interesting part of Tau Fire Cast life:

Spoiler:

You can actually leave the Fire Cast and start a family, didn't know that is possible before

.

How would there be new fire warriors otherwise? Tau castes are subspecies.

Very disappointed that they're introducing a new big bad Tau suit when the basic suits could really, really use a new model.

 Fafnir wrote:
Very disappointed that they're introducing a new big bad Tau suit when the basic suits could really, really use a new model.

I've never had a problem with the old model, personally.

Rustgob wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Very disappointed that they're introducing a new big bad Tau suit when the basic suits could really, really use a new model.

I've never had a problem with the old model, personally.

the ankles are very tiny and the tip toe feet look silly and are actually a pain for me to pose with a top heavy model.

 Crimson wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

But it show us one interesting part of Tau Fire Cast life:

Spoiler:

You can actually leave the Fire Cast and start a family, didn't know that is possible before

.

How would there be new fire warriors otherwise? Tau castes are subspecies.

I think someone at GW/BL doesn't understand what a caste system is. I expect that Fire Warriors don't actually leave their caste to have kids, they just take up non-combat duties including rearing, teaching, training, etc. until they decide that it is time to return to the front lines. But Crimson is right in that Tau castes were originally presented as a way to differentiate subspecies.

 Breotan wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

But it show us one interesting part of Tau Fire Cast life:

Spoiler:

You can actually leave the Fire Caste and start a family, didn't know that is possible before

.

How would there be new fire warriors otherwise? Tau castes are subspecies.

I think someone at GW/BL doesn't understand what a caste system is. I expect that Fire Warriors don't actually leave their caste to have kids, they just take up non-combat duties including rearing, teaching, training, etc. until they decide that it is time to return to the front lines. But Crimson is right in that Tau castes were originally presented as a way to differentiate subspecies.

They still are considered "subspecies". It is not unbelievable that the term "Fire Caste" is used to describe the military branch and the Caste itself.

 Crimson wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

But it show us one interesting part of Tau Fire Cast life:

Spoiler:

You can actually leave the Fire Cast and start a family, didn't know that is possible before

.

How would there be new fire warriors otherwise? Tau castes are subspecies.

Presumably a Tau Fire Caste member could have children before being enlisted as a fire warrior, hence creating new Fire Caste bred Tau, without ever leaving military service.

Its also shown that military service starts in the teens.

What people miss is that anime is a medium, not a genre. It is the name given to Japanese animation. You can't call something anime that was made outside of Japan, but you can call it animesque. This is because it is an art style, not the actually the ideas that make something anime. Of course, there are many subgroups within the medium too, but you can't really call tau anime because they have big robots. They are designed to fit inside a grimdark setting, so they must confine with the art style of the setting. They have robots? What faction doesn't? (tyranids duh, but they must be treated as an exception) Do they look different from the other factions? Yes, but they have too. They are better than the IOM when it comes down to movement, but they relay on their tech, unlike the eldar which have souls powering theirs.

I can think of another example that draws heavily from anime and that is battletech. I have never, ever heard somebody call that anime, but it technically is far more so than the tau. Why you may ask? When it first began, it stole many different designs from many different anime such as macross,

Above, I said that the art style is what makes something animesque. The thing about anime, is that because of the process it goes through, it is often much more free creatively than anything that is produced in the west. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that western shows aren't creative, but the process that works go through in Japan allows for a lot more things to get on the market than you would expect in the west. Basically, anime is to the west like the indie game market is to the AAA industry. Good stuff comes from both, but when game of thrones comes out, I'm sure everyone's going to watch it.


Dam I hope people can follow that, and my reasoning. Rant over.

 Breotan wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

But it show us one interesting part of Tau Fire Cast life:

Spoiler:

You can actually leave the Fire Cast and start a family, didn't know that is possible before

.

How would there be new fire warriors otherwise? Tau castes are subspecies.

I think someone at GW/BL doesn't understand what a caste system is. I expect that Fire Warriors don't actually leave their caste to have kids, they just take up non-combat duties including rearing, teaching, training, etc. until they decide that it is time to return to the front lines. But Crimson is right in that Tau castes were originally presented as a way to differentiate subspecies.

It could also be that as shadowsun is a commander (and may have been for over 4 years) she has the option of joining tau high command or retiring from the military, as do all shas'o after 4 years of active service.

I always assumed that with the accelerated tau growth rate (they reach maturity and age MUCH faster than humans) it was possibly for the fire caste wounded and retired and other non-combatants to reproduce enough to keep the ranks filled, that and that as they mature much faster, "mothering" wasnt really required, and as soon as new tau was born it could be raised by a non-combatant and trained fairly quickly, allowing the mother to continue to serve in the military

One thing that sounds strange about this book is that it seems the tau place an importance on family lineage, which seems strange, since all tau are considered equal, and do not even have a name at birth, instead earning their names through deeds during their lifetime

 Ledabot wrote:
What people miss is that anime is a medium, not a genre. It is the name given to Japanese animation. You can't call something anime that was made outside of Japan, but you can call it animesque. This is because it is an art style, not the actually the ideas that make something anime. Of course, there are many subgroups within the medium too, but you can't really call tau anime because they have big robots. They are designed to fit inside a grimdark setting, so they must confine with the art style of the setting. They have robots? What faction doesn't? (tyranids duh, but they must be treated as an exception) Do they look different from the other factions? Yes, but they have too. They are better than the IOM when it comes down to movement, but they relay on their tech, unlike the eldar which have souls powering theirs.

I can think of another example that draws heavily from anime and that is battletech. I have never, ever heard somebody call that anime, but it technically is far more so than the tau. Why you may ask? When it first began, it stole many different designs from many different anime such as macross,

Above, I said that the art style is what makes something animesque. The thing about anime, is that because of the process it goes through, it is often much more free creatively than anything that is produced in the west. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that western shows aren't creative, but the process that works go through in Japan allows for a lot more things to get on the market than you would expect in the west. Basically, anime is to the west like the indie game market is to the AAA industry. Good stuff comes from both, but when game of thrones comes out, I'm sure everyone's going to watch it.


Dam I hope people can follow that, and my reasoning. Rant over.

Just an aside. Battletech did not "steal" images from anime. They had licensed the material, but there was a snaffu in who actually owned the images licensed, a court thing, and a bunch of other crap that happened. The current license holder in the US for Macross images doesn't really have the rights to the images because they got them from a company in Japan that didn't actually own the images, but the damage was done. Precedent for them controlling the images were set, so that is how it remains. At least that is how I understand it, one big CF of bad timing/who owns what at the source.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bobug wrote:

It could also be that as shadowsun is a commander (and may have been for over 4 years) she has the option of joining tau high command or retiring from the military, as do all shas'o after 4 years of active service.

I always assumed that with the accelerated tau growth rate (they reach maturity and age MUCH faster than humans) it was possibly for the fire caste wounded and retired and other non-combatants to reproduce enough to keep the ranks filled, that and that as they mature much faster, "mothering" wasnt really required, and as soon as new tau was born it could be raised by a non-combatant and trained fairly quickly, allowing the mother to continue to serve in the military

One thing that sounds strange about this book is that it seems the tau place an importance on family lineage, which seems strange, since all tau are considered equal, and do not even have a name at birth, instead earning their names through deeds during their lifetime

I thought it was 4 years as a shas'la, then 4 as a shas'ui, then another 4 to shas'vre, a further 4 to shas'el or retirement, and then repeated tactical/strategic victories to shas'o.

Rustgob wrote:
Perhaps the death is not of the physical being, but of the warrior?

Once you leave the Fire Caste, you do not return?

I don't think they "leave the Fire Caste" the whole point of the caste system is you are born into it, but obviously by extension of that, there have to be members of the Fire Caste who are having babies, cause no other Caste can do it due to physiological differences between them, only Fire Caste can begat Fire Caste.

I had always assumed that this played into the rarity with which Tau women were depicted among their warriors, it seemed logical to me, that in a society where offspring don't inherit a family name and so much is socially engineered, they would probably have large numbers of female Fire Caste members regularly giving birth and a smaller number of males fathering those children, in fact I believe the first codex even made reference to "selective breeding" which would support the idea.

I've gotten a bit off track there, and it seems GW didn't share my vision, but basically, popping out Fire Warriors is still doing your duty to the Fire Caste and the Tau Empire.

Less than week to the WD release...we should see a trailer video tomorrow or Tuesday, if my predictions are correct. Let's hope preorders go up this coming Saturday, 'cause this waiting is killing me!

Rustgob wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Very disappointed that they're introducing a new big bad Tau suit when the basic suits could really, really use a new model.

I've never had a problem with the old model, personally.

Perhaps you have never had the "pleasure" of building one. They are far worse than Frog brand models of the 1950s for quality and ease of fit and assembly.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Very disappointed that they're introducing a new big bad Tau suit when the basic suits could really, really use a new model.

I've never had a problem with the old model, personally.

Perhaps you have never had the "pleasure" of building one. They are far worse than Frog brand models of the 1950s for quality and ease of fit and assembly.

Your avatar is epic.

OT- The Huge walker looks very interesting.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Very disappointed that they're introducing a new big bad Tau suit when the basic suits could really, really use a new model.

I've never had a problem with the old model, personally.

Perhaps you have never had the "pleasure" of building one. They are far worse than Frog brand models of the 1950s for quality and ease of fit and assembly.

Box on stilts is what they remind me of.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Very disappointed that they're introducing a new big bad Tau suit when the basic suits could really, really use a new model.

I've never had a problem with the old model, personally.

Perhaps you have never had the "pleasure" of building one. They are far worse than Frog brand models of the 1950s for quality and ease of fit and assembly.

No, no. I built about 6 when they were first released. I did put most them on flying bases though. Making them stand sucked a bit, but it's easier than working with metals (or was back then for me).


As for 'anime', perhaps I should call Tau battlesuits 'Mangaish' because ever since I saw an XV25, I've thought of appleseed:

The Landmate that gets stuck on this page is pretty XV25ish;
http://www.anymanga.com/appleseed/001/006/034/

Combine it with this;
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs6/i/2005/038/9/c/Landmate_1_by_camoteguau18.jpg

Bam! XV25

 Sidstyler wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Can anyone even really point out what makes the Tau "anime", besides the battlesuits? Honestly the only real anime influence I see are the mecha, so obviously Robotech, Gundam, etc., but what other anime do Tau remind you of?

At first release in 2001, the WD articles to support the new army had also an interview with the model designers and they said one of the sources of inspiration was anime.

Again, I know that, but what I want to know now is what anime influences do you guys see in them, besides mecha? Because at this point it sounds more like Tau are the "anime army" because of this little blurb from the designers and crisis suits, and nothing more.

If that's all that makes them "anime" then they aren't very anime.

Citing anime influences was the thing at the time. If you went San Diego Comic-con, the creators would mention being inspired by anime at panels. Then when people pressed for specifics at the Q&A, they'd say "Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll". EVERY SINGLE TIME. FOR A CHILDREN'S FANTASY CARTOON.

Which is the point I'm ultimately trying to get at. People keep insisting that Tau are "anime" and that's just that, and they really aren't. It's entirely possible the GW designers didn't even know what the feth they were talking about, and the only anime influence in the entire army are the battlesuits. And even then people get it wrong, as pointed out before. Crisis suits are "Gundam" despite looking almost nothing like them, for example.

So I really wish people would stop parroting "Tau are anime" and "Tau are Gundam" over and over because it's complete and utter nonsense. It's just the battlesuits, that's the only thing. Take away the battlesuits and I guarantee you'll be hard-pressed to think of what anime exactly they remind you of.

In any case I think I've just dragged this even more off-topic, so I guess I'll leave it at that. I have nothing else to contribute, I've made my thoughts on the models painfully clear and we have no more new stuff to go on so I'll be bowing out for the time being.

I can definitely see an anime influence in some of the models.

I had to write a paper on anime and manga art and it's influences on the designs in modern gaming.

I stated in a small section that the XV8 took influences from Appleseed and Patlabor (both Masamune Shirow works) while the tanks take a lot from Dominion Tank Police (another Shirow work).

I can understand why people cite the more mainstream anime and manga (Akira, GITS and Gundam) as for many people, this is the first point or only point of reference for this medium.

I can also agree that the anime influence stops here. Fire warriors are quite unique and the drones also.

I could also list what the Tau have inadvertently influenced in Sci Fi film, television and video games, but it's off topic, I can't be arsed and it's my day off.

I always thought that the XV-25 looked like Zentraedi(sp) Female Powered Armor. Sadly I don't have any pics of it.

 Breotan wrote:
I think someone at GW/BL doesn't understand what a caste system is.

Someone at BL not knowing anything about the game world they're writing about? Say it isn't so! It's almost like we have space marines surfing razorbacks! Or Space Wolf heroes suddenly changing names! Or, or, ... well, you get the point.

BL has and will always be absolute crap when it comes to continuity to the actual 40k game world.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
I always thought that the XV-25 looked like Zentraedi(sp) Female Powered Armor. Sadly I don't have any pics of it.

The faceplate is kind of the same, but it doesn't have the massive shoulders of a Queadlunn-Rau.

http://www.amazon.com/Macross-Frontier-Queadluun-Rea-Squadron-Spirits/dp/B003PE9MTI

Those aren't shoulders, they are a huge missile launching thruster/backpack. Not so good for combat on a planet, great for the space combat it is used in.

I think I found a link:

http://www.the-blueprints.com/modules/gallery/originals/04298-09947.jpg

With out the suits they are even more anime. Tau would be totally stolen from Legend of the overfiend. Tau would be total bent over by demons with out the suits.

One of the tau guys reminded me of the following...
Optimus Tauos Reporting for duty!

So, back on topic-ish...

For those wondering about retconned fluff vs fluff advance, there sounds to be a bit of both.

Rumors in this thread suggest a retconning of Farsights fluff to fix the time-line inconsistencies about him being 300 years old yet both he and shadowsun were students of puretide.

The Tau back story apparently is being advanced due to the blurb in the White Dwarf.....It is under the army picture where it says the Tau are expanding again.



Off-Topic-

Yes the Tau were influenced by anime but not solely. As they are currently depicted, the Tau most closely resemble a futuristic mix of the British Empire, Imperialistic Japan, and India with a bit of the US and Ancient Greece thrown in. (Note- this is just about the Tau, not the Kroot or Vespid.) You can see these influences by how:

The caste system could be viewed as having been sourced from India,
The approach of "join and serve or die" is echoes the British Empires pattern of colonization,
The use of trade to subvert an existing regime is could be viewed as a tactic of the trilateral commission(US, Britain and Japan)
The Fire Warrior armour was designed to be sort of futuristic pseudo-samurai
Tau battle tactics reflect the US and British "manoeuvre warfare" doctrines
The new Tau Aircraft look like US drones while the older Forgeworld aircraft look to be heavily influenced by 1980's Stealth Fighter and Stealth Bomber concept art. The Barracuda in particulat looks a lot like the Hypersonic sub-orbital stealth bomber from back in the 80's


Crisis suits are a mixture of what is typically seen in anime and what Hollywood depicts as combat mechs.
The xv15 has a strong connection to the Alien armour in Predator.
The Tau Tanks are a mix of to many things to list.

Oh yeah, The Name Tau is not Asian but the greek letter that means life.


What I am getting at is that the Tau are a mish mash of design and philosophies.