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I just hope that they you can take multiples as one HQ choice... I have an itching for a short range rain of death with carbines.. imagine the supporting overwatch...

Yeah, I'm not sure if they'll be worth taking if they're 60pts each though as I think I read somewhere before.

Just spent $3 on 36 carbines. If its not a good buy, I'm out $3, if they are the new weapon of choice, I'm sure my 52 fire warriors are glad they're not worthless. I bought mist of my fire warriors assembled so I don't have FW bits around like I do with suits and such.

I care not for points!!

yeah im one of those players im afraid... I simply make a list that resonates with me.. and the idea (although not the models) of the fireblades appeal to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lobukia wrote:
Just spent $3 on 36 carbines. If its not a good buy, I'm out $3, if they are the new weapon of choice, I'm sure my 52 fire warriors are glad they're not worthless. I bought mist of my fire warriors assembled so I don't have FW bits around like I do with suits and such.

$3 isn't anything really..and it could pay off. if the rules are what we have heard they will be my weapon of choice FW wise.

I just placed an order for 1 codex, 2 Sun Shark Bombers, 1 Pathfiner Team, and 1 Riptide Battlesuit. I may order 36 more Fire Warriors on top of the 36 I already own. I hope the new models and rules don't disappoint me.

i bet the Fireblades may be like Haemonculus or Ministorum Priests where you can take 1-3 in a single HQ choice. Which, when weighed just like a Haemy, is a similar value in that you are boosting a basic squad hes attached to, and that boosted squad becomes a cornerstone to several other squads in an advance.

I've reread the battle report and I cannot see this bit where it talks about 24" range?

 boy wonder wrote:
I care not for points!!

yeah im one of those players im afraid... I simply make a list that resonates with me.. and the idea (although not the models) of the fireblades appeal to me.

That is truly a great way to play 40K (not sarcastic) but in all seriousness if you aren't adhering to 100% of the rules that the codex is balanced to then you don't have a good perspective to discuss proper costing and balancing changes.

New Firewarriors have gotten weaker and in order to retain their current offensive firepower you must pay MORE points than their current costs. Pulse Rifles in general sound like a waste of time now and it seems that carbines will be the way to go. Also, it may be back to skeleton units of FW hiding in Devilfish again as the army will not have that strong troops backbone that it so sorely requires.

Making it possible to invest in Firewarriors to make them serviceable is not an acceptable alternative to having them not be garbage to start.

 Jadenim wrote:
I've reread the battle report and I cannot see this bit where it talks about 24" range?

Same here.

I'll give it another read just in case though.

For those bitchin about a drop in range, we got an extra shot per guy if stationary. Combined with Markerlights this is going to be very dangerous. Fire Warriors have become the ultimate glass cannon... so what if they are fragile, look at the amount of effective firepower you can poor into a unit.

I for one don't mind if there is a range nerf, our guns getting more shots has made up for that imo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So are we back to Fish Of Fury?

Puscifer wrote:
For those bitchin about a drop in range, we got an extra shot per guy if stationary. Combined with Markerlights this is going to be very dangerous. Fire Warriors have become the ultimate glass cannon... so what if they are fragile, look at the amount of effective firepower you can poor into a unit.

We didn't "get" that extra shot, we can pay a whole bunch of points for it with only a 1 point reduction on Firewarriors to compensate. It seems like without that upgrade character they are even worse than before but with him they get +1 shot while static and they have his markerlight to make them actually hit something because herp derp BS3. Add in the 6" range boost drone and now you have some scary firepower but at great cost. Methinks we are seeing the same design philosophy GW used for WHFB Empire applied to the Tau; rubbish core troops that can become great if you invest a load of points into them through support characters and upgrades. This would be fine if they weren't literally the only troop choice in the game that requires such forced synergy to function.

As for Fish of Fury, I think that is still dead due to the new Firewarriors having no increased effectiveness without the upgrade character that gives them that +1 shot while static; you would be sending your Firewarriors to their deaths just like if you did Fish of Fury right now.

 SonicPara wrote:

 boy wonder wrote:
I care not for points!!

yeah im one of those players im afraid... I simply make a list that resonates with me.. and the idea (although not the models) of the fireblades appeal to me.

That is truly a great way to play 40K (not sarcastic) but in all seriousness if you aren't adhering to 100% of the rules that the codex is balanced to then you don't have a good perspective to discuss proper costing and balancing changes.

New Firewarriors have gotten weaker and in order to retain their current offensive firepower you must pay MORE points than their current costs. Pulse Rifles in general sound like a waste of time now and it seems that carbines will be the way to go. Also, it may be back to skeleton units of FW hiding in Devilfish again as the army will not have that strong troops backbone that it so sorely requires.

Making it possible to invest in Firewarriors to make them serviceable is not an acceptable alternative to having them not be garbage to start.

i adhere 100% to the rules... and im fully aware of costing and balance.

and i don't think they are garbage.... look at an eldar guardian in relation. i think that for 9 points (supposed) a bs3, 4+ save and str 5 assault 2/rapid fire gun isn't too bad.

The 24" rumor comes from daredeviltan posted in another thread. He claims he's seen the codex already and mentions the range nerf. He also pointed out the Aun'va turns AP of enemy weapons into a saving throw, which is questionalbe considering it's impossible to have a 1+ save. For all we know, all the rumors from daredeviltan could be a bad April's Fool joke.

 SonicPara wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
For those bitchin about a drop in range, we got an extra shot per guy if stationary. Combined with Markerlights this is going to be very dangerous. Fire Warriors have become the ultimate glass cannon... so what if they are fragile, look at the amount of effective firepower you can poor into a unit.

We didn't "get" that extra shot, we can pay a whole bunch of points for it with only a 1 point reduction on Firewarriors to compensate. It seems like without that upgrade character they are even worse than before but with him they get +1 shot while static and they have his markerlight to make them actually hit something because herp derp BS3. Add in the 6" range boost drone and now you have some scary firepower but at great cost. Methinks we are seeing the same design philosophy GW used for WHFB Empire applied to the Tau; rubbish core troops that can become great if you invest a load of points into them through support characters and upgrades. This would be fine if they weren't literally the only troop choice in the game that requires such forced synergy to function.

As for Fish of Fury, I think that is still dead due to the new Firewarriors having no increased effectiveness without the upgrade character that gives them that +1 shot while static; you would be sending your Firewarriors to their deaths just like if you did Fish of Fury right now.

Where is this range drone everyone is raving about?

Also, I have to agree with a lot of the points made, but I can see Fireblades becoming auto takes if you want to field anymore than two Firewarrior squads.

Where is this range drone everyone is raving about?

Its one of the silly looking ones that come with the PF kit.

Lucarikx

Puscifer wrote:

Where is this range drone everyone is raving about?

According to the item description:
The one with the four prongs is the Pulse Accelerator Drone and the one with the orb is the Gravity Inhibitor Drone.

One of those gives extra range within a bubble?

Hmmmm...

The Pulse Accelerator Drone does.

Not sure what Gravity Inhibitor Drone does.

don't know if its a bubble yet........ i hope it is!!!!

 boy wonder wrote:
and i don't think they are garbage.... look at an eldar guardian in relation. i think that for 9 points (supposed) a bs3, 4+ save and str 5 assault 2/rapid fire gun isn't too bad.

That is because Eldar Guardians are woefully obsolete rubbish units. The only reason it isn't such a massive problem (though it is still a problem) is because the Dire Avengers are there to be a solid troop choice.

If there was a better version of Firewarriors available as troops then Firewarriors being underwhelming wouldn't be a problem. When a game requires troops for a number of things a codex needs a solid troops choice to be a foundation of your army. Some books deal with this through FOC shenanigans and some books just have great troops choices. The concern with this Tau update is that Firewarriors as rumored do not fit the bill and there are no reports of compensating through FOC tricks.

Puscifer wrote:
One of those gives extra range within a bubble?

Hmmmm...

If it is a bubble then that is a significant step in the right direction.

Davor wrote:
So at 5:23 of the video, I saw some Tau in all white. I guess they are an HQ choice on a chariot or something like that?

They aren't new, it's Aun'Va down the back riding his pope-mobile and then down the front is Shadowsun.

I don't think Aun-Va will get chariot rules because it would really mess with his body guards.

 boy wonder wrote:
and i don't think they are garbage.... look at an eldar guardian in relation. i think that for 9 points (supposed) a bs3, 4+ save and str 5 assault 2/rapid fire gun isn't too bad.

You can make anything look cheap by comparing to the Eldar codex, it's horribly out of date.

If it is a bubble, it'll be good but I can't believe that the Rifle is 24".

i find it hard to believe too.. but if it is it is.

It's rumor, not fact.

Considering the same fellow claims the AP dictates the Invulnerable save of the special character isn't believable. So...Lasguns are death incarnate???

Uh huh.

Seems similar to the Daemons Great Unclean One rumor about the ap or strength determining a better FnP...? The one that was fabricated, anyway, before Codex release.

CleverAntics wrote:
It's rumor, not fact.

Considering the same fellow claims the AP dictates the Invulnerable save of the special character isn't believable. So...Lasguns are death incarnate???

Uh huh.

Have you got a link to the thread please?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517517.page

In there somewhere.

Thanks.

Btw did anyone notice the weapon config of the Hammerhead in the battle report?

Twin SMS and Burst Cannon.

Puscifer wrote:If it is a bubble, it'll be good but I can't believe that the Rifle is 24".

boy wonder wrote:i find it hard to believe too.. but if it is it is.

I won't believe it till it's still a rumour on April 2nd personally.

Puscifer wrote:

CleverAntics wrote:
It's rumor, not fact.

Considering the same fellow claims the AP dictates the Invulnerable save of the special character isn't believable. So...Lasguns are death incarnate???

Uh huh.

Have you got a link to the thread please?

Iirc the invulnerable save rumor came from The Dude over on warseer: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?364126-Tau-rumours&p=6703058&viewfull=1#post6703058

The_Dude wrote:
Apparently Aun'Va's signature wargear item is an invulnerable save based on the weapons AP value. i.e against a Lascannon he has a 2++ But against a Bolter He gets a 5++. Also, wounds from AP1 weapons are ignored altogether.

He got several bits of information correct before we saw the confirmation in the WD. I cannot find anything solid on the range change though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Puscifer wrote:
One of those gives extra range within a bubble?

Hmmmm...

I guess it will only affect the accompanying pathfinders; no bubble, no FWs.

We must be careful comparing things, or rather, getting to invested in such comparisons before we have the book in hand - and can contextually see everything.

I have to say, that I was not very happy with the new flyer's appearance, but it has grown on me a bit, and with the new vids and views on the GW site, I am indeed quite happy with it.

I would have loved a barracuda (and still might, depending on everything) but that is another thread....

On another note, in looking closely at the flyer spure, it does indeed look like there are only 4 ion weapons in there, which means building both the drones and the fighter turret may be problematic...

Of course, I might just put extra pathfinder rail rifles on the drones, we shall see what we can come up with.

Question: any one have a information on what the range is for a burst cannon in the new dex from a SOLID SOURCE?

thanks,

 SabrX wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Im seeing a lot of angst here, having played Tau since they first came out I only see positives here. Anyone thats butthurt about something like a 6" loss in range of a pulse rifle doesnt really know how to play Tau IMO. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Are Firewarriors still one of the best troops choices in game? Yes.

If the rumors that they are 9 points a pop is true while retaining BS3 24" Str5 AP5 with 4+ save, then yes. They definitely are still one of the best troop choices in the game.

Sure they are, as soon as marines cost 20 points per model, orcs cost 8 points, and Dire Avengers cost 15 points. The Only thing Fire warriors have going for them is the better gun, and the barely understood supporting fire rule(which I don't think will allow them to fire more than 1 overwatch usage in an assault phase).

A good comparison at 9 points is the Kabalite Warriors. Who hit more often, have a comparable weapon(it is better in some areas and worse in others), better LD, worse armor, faster, better WS, fleet, PFP, and Night vision for free. With the attainable Fearless, and FNP the Kabalites are better than a FW hands down.