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Anbutou wrote:
So the rumor is that the railguns are tiered, and the hammerhead has access to the good one, but it loses it's bs4, which means you'd see even less railgun effectiveness on hammerheads? That's just... wow. I guess it's missile spam XV-88 time.

I feel like longstrike might have something to say about this. He probably overides any -1BS. hooray......an autotake......almost......i just dislike using named characters, which means i may have to suffer lol

Wait what, so we not only lose our str 10 on our broadsides, but also bs4 on our remaining str 10? :-/. I understand we are all about synergy and using markerlights etc, but not everybody plays at points levels where all those goodies are available :(.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Veskrashen wrote:

davou wrote:
Devilfish cost unchanged and Dpod nerfed is disgusting.

Yeah, that's really going to suck. Even if DPods and Multitrackers are standard, and even if vehicle mounted burst cannons are 36" S6 AP4, that's still not worth 80pts. Especially since things like Chimeras (similar AV, similar capacity, similar armament) are less expensive. Has to be a "skimmer tax" of some kind.

Cant have them competing with marines now can we? Skimmers have been getting the shaft since 3rd.

I'm not sure I agree. In my eyes, skimmers are extremely strong in the current edition of the game thanks to their great mobility and free 5+ save. Further, in 4th edition fast skimmers were completely broken. Disruption pods in the current Codex are completely broken. I can easily see a Devilfish being worth its present costs based on changes to the Devilfish itself, to Fire Warriors (if pulse carbines become Assault 2, Fish of Fury is back in a crazy way), to the "Warfish" upgrade suite, etc.

Overall I think we should wait for the book before getting too worked up. Will there be some upheaval in what units are popular and good? Of course-- but this always happens with a new Codex.

How are we loosing Bs4 on hammerheads?

Wolfnid420 wrote:
I feel like longstrike might have something to say about this. He probably overides any -1BS. hooray......an autotake......almost......i just dislike using named characters, which means i may have to suffer lol

It also means that only one tank will be as accurate as they used to be AND you will be paying a premium to make it so. Considering that Hammerheads were solid but overcosted before, that is a grim reality.

That is also a reality that unchanged points for the Devilfish and all of the other garbage rules rumors belong in so Tau may just be in for another disappointing edition.

Hopefully the rumors are wrong and the book is decent.

MoD_Legion wrote:
Wait what, so we not only lose our str 10 on our broadsides, but also bs4 on our remaining str 10? :-/. I understand we are all about synergy and using markerlights etc, but not everybody plays at points levels where all those goodies are available :(.

Maybe they have made ML a lot cheaper to bring to the table and in more forms? This could help massively.

MoD_Legion wrote:
Wait what, so we not only lose our str 10 on our broadsides, but also bs4 on our remaining str 10? :-/. I understand we are all about synergy and using markerlights etc, but not everybody plays at points levels where all those goodies are available :(.

I kinda feel like they are trying to make pathfinders a must have as well(for all point levels it seems). 1 or 2 small squads of 5 could be pretty useful. Hopefully they have a combat squad special rule so they only take up one slot lol

 Prodigalson wrote:
Also, remember that they may have changed the stats of the burst cannons on the vehicles vs. the ones on the suits. For instance, what if burst cannons stayed the same, but the ones on the vehicles were heavy burst cannons and were say... Heavy 4, Str 6 ap 4 and 36 inch range? Also, what if the pulse carbine is 2 shots for each drone? It would go from 5 shots on the vehicle, to 8 shots on it. Let's let the rules come out before we get all doom and gloom.

We've seen a "Heavy Burst Cannon" on the Riptide that's rumored to have Heavy 8 S6 AP4; and we've heard RUMINT that the vehicle BC is different than the one on battlesuits. Heavy 4 sounds about right, given comparative sizes. And yes, getting a boost from 5/5 to 6/4, along with SMS or 2x drones with Assault 2 Pulse Carbines, would definitely go a long way to making it worth 80 points.

On a side note, if those are all pulse weapons, wonder if the Fire Ethereal +1 shot aura applies? Could give us a variant on the Dakka Banner from Dark Angels... DFish and HHeads with Heavy Burst Cannons in formation, with one DFish carrying a Fire Ethereal. Lots of extra dakka, on the cheap. Make sure the one carrying the most pulse weapons has Longstrike, too, so it can overwatch with all that extra dakka.

Wolfnid420 wrote:

Anbutou wrote:
i just dislike using named characters, which means i may have to suffer lol

I know, right!? I don't mind taking squad-level-IC characters like Alrahime or Harker, but I hate using really expensive Hero equivelent ICs, like Shadowsun or Thraka.

I like to think that my army is unique and MINE, not a special book with special army characters. I also feel like I want to attribute my win to my tactics of the common unit, not because i picked a SUPAH ELITE COOLZ UNIT!!1!

Just my feeling on the issue.

That's why I'm digging Darkstrider and Fireblade (from what I've heard so far), their mundane and fragile enough to take, without being super-powers.

Also, I am not sure where the rumor comes from that Hammerheads do not come with Targeting Arrays. They were on the first iteration of the hammerhead and have always been part of the codex. I have seen nothing, anywhere that says that they are not in the book, or that it is not an upgrade of some type.

Now, it may be that it does not come standard anymore, and it may be an upgrade. I really can't imagine them having you pay that many points for a main line battle tank with a single str 10 shot that only hits 1/2 of the time. It's not that accurate to begin with to be honest. What if the hammerhead can have a burst cannon on the front, two burst cannons where the drones are, and the main gun, but you can upgrade the front burst cannon to a targeting array? The reason not to do it with Longknife is that he is standard BS 5, so he doesn't need the TA? He wants the firepower. I mean, the Kit can do that right now.

However, take a look at that army that they fielded in the WD. Every firewarrior had a squad leader with a markerlight and a target locker (which makes me think they are still hardwired). so that is 4 markerlights. He had two units of pathfinders of 5 each (10 more markerlights) and about 4 marker drones. So he had almost 20 markerlights. Even hitting 1/2 the time, that would hurt.

The same rando who posted pulse rifles are 24" range is the one who said targeting arrays no longer boost BS.

I hate that April 1 is the week leading up to our book release, because it throws all sorts of jerks into making up rumors.

By Wednesday we should be getting credible reports of what's changed, what's the same, and the overall feel for the book. The 6th Ed books so far have been balanced and look fun to use, I have faith that Tau are getting the same treatment.

One thing i cant wait to do is plop down the riptide for the first time

In regards to the Devilfish, the Heavy Burst Cannon plus two SMS will be beastly.

8 shots from SMS and four from HBC is good on a transport.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If the rumours are true of course.

 Kingsley wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Veskrashen wrote:

davou wrote:
Devilfish cost unchanged and Dpod nerfed is disgusting.

Yeah, that's really going to suck. Even if DPods and Multitrackers are standard, and even if vehicle mounted burst cannons are 36" S6 AP4, that's still not worth 80pts. Especially since things like Chimeras (similar AV, similar capacity, similar armament) are less expensive. Has to be a "skimmer tax" of some kind.

Cant have them competing with marines now can we? Skimmers have been getting the shaft since 3rd.

I'm not sure I agree. In my eyes, skimmers are extremely strong in the current edition of the game thanks to their great mobility and free 5+ save. Further, in 4th edition fast skimmers were completely broken. Disruption pods in the current Codex are completely broken. I can easily see a Devilfish being worth its present costs based on changes to the Devilfish itself, to Fire Warriors (if pulse carbines become Assault 2, Fish of Fury is back in a crazy way), to the "Warfish" upgrade suite, etc.

Overall I think we should wait for the book before getting too worked up. Will there be some upheaval in what units are popular and good? Of course-- but this always happens with a new Codex.

I could definitely see the Devilfish being worth its current cost if they were changed to fast skimmer plus possible heavy burst cannon. Otherwise, it's a lackluster transport/fire support vehicle compared to IG Chimeras.

The old Fish of Fury worked in 4th ed and 5th ed because it allowed Fire Warriors to disembark from the back, deal damage, and not having to worry about enemy infantry 6" charge range. In 6th ed, 2D6 charge range makes Fish of Fury less effective. To make Fish of Fury effective, the rumors of a Grav Wave Generator like drone that halves charging distance as an optional upgrade will have to be true.

Materia_Master wrote:

Wolfnid420 wrote:

Anbutou wrote:
i just dislike using named characters, which means i may have to suffer lol

I know, right!? I don't mind taking squad-level-IC characters like Alrahime or Harker, but I hate using really expensive Hero equivelent ICs, like Shadowsun or Thraka.

I like to think that my army is unique and MINE, not a special book with special army characters. I also feel like I want to attribute my win to my tactics of the common unit, not because i picked a SUPAH ELITE COOLZ UNIT!!1!

Just my feeling on the issue.

That's why I'm digging Darkstrider and Fireblade (from what I've heard so far), their mundane and fragile enough to take, without being super-powers.

Oops. Wanted to trim up a quote, ended up incorperating my opinion in it. sorry.

 SabrX wrote:
I could definitely see the Devilfish being worth its current cost if they were changed to fast skimmer plus possible heavy burst cannon. Otherwise, it's a lackluster transport/fire support vehicle compared to IG Chimeras.

The Chimera strikes me as extremely likely to be nerfed in its next iteration, though. I suspect it will go back to passengers only being able to fire lasguns, with perhaps 1-2 other weapons from the top hatch.

 SabrX wrote:
The old Fish of Fury worked in 4th ed and 5th ed because it allowed Fire Warriors to disembark from the back, deal damage, and not having to worry about enemy infantry 6" charge range. In 6th ed, 2D6 charge range makes Fish of Fury less effective. To make Fish of Fury effective, the rumors of a Grav Wave Generator like drone that halves charging distance as an optional upgrade will have to be true.

If Fire Warriors have 18" range assault 2 Pulse Carbines, the new Fish of Fury would allow you to not worry about being charged either. If you concave your Fire Warriors at 18," with one or two pulse rifles in the squad to increase the threat range of the carbine fire, you will almost certainly kill all enemy models within 18" and some beyond this range. Faster units would of course be worrisome, but if you can prevent not only charges but also double taps from Rapid Fire weapons, this tactic looks like a potential winner. Of course, the Devilfish is not necessary for this tactic, but it greatly facilitates getting in the correct position.

Anbutou wrote:
So the rumor is that the railguns are tiered, and the hammerhead has access to the good one, but it loses it's bs4, which means you'd see even less railgun effectiveness on hammerheads? That's just... wow. I guess it's missile spam XV-88 time.

Don't worry! You can always take Space Marines as your Ally to take care of your anti-tank needs!

Backfire wrote:

Anbutou wrote:
So the rumor is that the railguns are tiered, and the hammerhead has access to the good one, but it loses it's bs4, which means you'd see even less railgun effectiveness on hammerheads? That's just... wow. I guess it's missile spam XV-88 time.

Don't worry! You can always take Space Marines as your Ally to take care of your anti-tank needs!

... I see what you did there.

Please stop, I don't want to break my keyboard.

 Kingsley wrote:
If Fire Warriors have 18" range assault 2 Pulse Carbines, the new Fish of Fury would allow you to not worry about being charged either. If you concave your Fire Warriors at 18," with one or two pulse rifles in the squad to increase the threat range of the carbine fire, you will almost certainly kill all enemy models within 18" and some beyond this range. Faster units would of course be worrisome, but if you can prevent not only charges but also double taps from Rapid Fire weapons, this tactic looks like a potential winner. Of course, the Devilfish is not necessary for this tactic, but it greatly facilitates getting in the correct position.

With 18" range Fish of Fury is giving any surviving opponents an almost automatic charge on the Devilfish and a possible charge on the Firewarriors. Max assault range of a standard unit is 18" accounting for the 6" move in the movement phase and the huge hull of the Devilfish is 4" or more meaning they would need at most an 8" charge.

If Flechette Launchers are still in and not prohibitively expensive then perhaps Fish of Fury with Carbines using a Flechette Launcher Devilfish could be a viable tactic.

I'm not sure I agree. In my eyes, skimmers are extremely strong in the current edition of the game thanks to their great mobility and free 5+ save. Further, in 4th edition fast skimmers were completely broken. Disruption pods in the current Codex are completely broken. I can easily see a Devilfish being worth its present costs based on changes to the Devilfish itself, to Fire Warriors (if pulse carbines become Assault 2, Fish of Fury is back in a crazy way), to the "Warfish" upgrade suite, etc.

Overall I think we should wait for the book before getting too worked up. Will there be some upheaval in what units are popular and good? Of course-- but this always happens with a new Codex.

I don't see why people even care. The vast majority of transports suck in 6th. It saves money to not have to buy one for every squad too.

 SonicPara wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
If Fire Warriors have 18" range assault 2 Pulse Carbines, the new Fish of Fury would allow you to not worry about being charged either. If you concave your Fire Warriors at 18," with one or two pulse rifles in the squad to increase the threat range of the carbine fire, you will almost certainly kill all enemy models within 18" and some beyond this range. Faster units would of course be worrisome, but if you can prevent not only charges but also double taps from Rapid Fire weapons, this tactic looks like a potential winner. Of course, the Devilfish is not necessary for this tactic, but it greatly facilitates getting in the correct position.

With 18" range Fish of Fury is giving any surviving opponents an almost automatic charge on the Devilfish and a possible charge on the Firewarriors. Max assault range of a standard unit is 18" accounting for the 6" move in the movement phase and the huge hull of the Devilfish is 4" or more meaning they would need at most an 8" charge.

If Flechette Launchers are still in and not prohibitively expensive then perhaps Fish of Fury with Carbines using a Flechette Launcher Devilfish could be a viable tactic.

Add in a Pulse Accelerator Drone for 24 inch Pulse Carbines then.

 JGrand wrote:
I don't see why people even care. The vast majority of transports suck in 6th. It saves money to not have to buy one for every squad too.

I suspect people care because one of (if not the most) popular builds for tau since the very beginning in 3rd edition involves lots of transport skimmers. Plenty of players have several hundred dollars invested in tau skimmers which justifies an interest in how they're treated in the codex that they'll be using for the next 5+ years. 40k doesn't just consist of jumping the bandwagon new codex players like your myopic viewpoint suggests.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I hate that April 1 is the week leading up to our book release, because it throws all sorts of jerks into making up rumors.

April 1st trains forum readers for all 364 other days in a year where all sorts of jerks make up rumours

 warboss wrote:

 JGrand wrote:
I don't see why people even care. The vast majority of transports suck in 6th. It saves money to not have to buy one for every squad too.

I suspect people care because one of (if not the most) popular builds for tau since the very beginning in 3rd edition involves lots of transport skimmers. Plenty of players have several hundred dollars invested in tau skimmers which justifies an interest in how they're treated in the codex that they'll be using for the next 5+ years. 40k doesn't just consist of jumping the bandwagon new codex players like your myopic viewpoint suggests.

Not to mention a fleet of devilfishes bearing down on your foes is really really cool looking

In the end, just give me a codex that leaves the final result of most games in my hands. If at the end of the day my choices in builds, strategy, and tactics define victory or defeat I am great with the codex. Presently, the codex simply precludes competitive play against some armies and in certain scenarios.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I hate that April 1 is the week leading up to our book release, because it throws all sorts of jerks into making up rumors.

April 1st trains forum readers for all 364 other days in a year where all sorts of jerks make up rumours

This is the most relevant post in the last 24 hours. You earn an exalt, sir .

 Kingsley wrote:

 SabrX wrote:
The old Fish of Fury worked in 4th ed and 5th ed because it allowed Fire Warriors to disembark from the back, deal damage, and not having to worry about enemy infantry 6" charge range. In 6th ed, 2D6 charge range makes Fish of Fury less effective. To make Fish of Fury effective, the rumors of a Grav Wave Generator like drone that halves charging distance as an optional upgrade will have to be true.

If Fire Warriors have 18" range assault 2 Pulse Carbines, the new Fish of Fury would allow you to not worry about being charged either. If you concave your Fire Warriors at 18," with one or two pulse rifles in the squad to increase the threat range of the carbine fire, you will almost certainly kill all enemy models within 18" and some beyond this range. Faster units would of course be worrisome, but if you can prevent not only charges but also double taps from Rapid Fire weapons, this tactic looks like a potential winner. Of course, the Devilfish is not necessary for this tactic, but it greatly facilitates getting in the correct position.

Assault 2 18" Str5 AP5 w/ pinning would be absolutely amazing on a 9 point Fire Warrior! My Dire Avengers will weep at their inadequacy. Assault 2 Pulse Carbines will make Tau players think choosing between at Pulse Rifle that fires 1 shot at 30" and 2 shots at 15" versus Pulse Carbine's 2 shots at 18". Pulse Carbine Fire Warriors will definitely need a Devilfish to get within firing range. From there, they can shoot and scoot forward or backward as long as they always stay within 18" and more than 12" from 24" rapid fire weapons. If Fire Warriors don't have that extra mobility, they'll be out-ranged from standard Bolters or Lasguns 24" range. At that point, it's better to field Fire Warriors with Pulse Rifles for extra range and utility. Viability of FoF ultimately comes down to points cost of a Devilfish.

 Prodigalson wrote:
Also, I am not sure where the rumor comes from that Hammerheads do not come with Targeting Arrays. They were on the first iteration of the hammerhead and have always been part of the codex.

Could you remind me what the Targeting Array did in 3rd edition? I do not remember it but i was a noob Tau player at the time.

 ph34r wrote:

 Prodigalson wrote:
Also, I am not sure where the rumor comes from that Hammerheads do not come with Targeting Arrays. They were on the first iteration of the hammerhead and have always been part of the codex.

Could you remind me what the Targeting Array did in 3rd edition? I do not remember it but i was a noob Tau player at the time.

+1 Ballistic Skill. It was an upgrade for other vehicles but came built into the Hammerhead.

Anybody looked at Sanctuary of Wyrms? I'm amazed that 3 tau books have come out now, when there were none before.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/sanctuary-of-wyrms-ebook.html