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Good thing is, that you can combine the two on Crisis suits but then you can have only one weapon (the Crisis can take 3 weapons/support systems in any combination).

Bit pricey to spend 25 points extra per Battlesuit and weaken its armament overall just so that it could cause one S7 missile pod hit against a flyer entering play. It's cool the Tau have these options though.

RogueRegault wrote:

Coyote81 wrote:
I think its incredily hard to be sure we can't come up with unique combos to deal with opposing Av14. Just with a quick thought I came up with the idea of having a suit cmdr with a nero chip in a broadside squad to start the game. (just at the start mind you) Shoot some marklights at that landraider you want dead. 3 marker hits = +1BS and no cover saves. The nero chip gives you tankhunter. So We would be shooting S9 twin linked AP1 railguns at the landraider with rerolls to pen. Thats effectively as good as having BS3 S10 railguns. With target lock those guys can shoot at different targets then their missile drones, and the drones can shoot at light vehicles with their missiles at effective S8 with rerolls to pen as well. Take a drone controller and call it a day. If your feeling froggy, get a ADL and Lascannon (I prefer it with all the helldrakes roaming around) and now the cmdr can ace flyers and have a S10 lascannon for the landraider as well.

Specifics aside, you just need to get creative.

Where is the +1 S coming from?

Unless I'm mistaken, Tank hunter is +1 to pen vehicles and rerolls to pen.

 Therion wrote:

Good thing is, that you can combine the two on Crisis suits but then you can have only one weapon (the Crisis can take 3 weapons/support systems in any combination).

Bit pricey to spend 25 points extra per Battlesuit and weaken its armament overall just so that it could cause one S7 missile pod hit against a flyer entering play.

Well, you can still have it if you want it .

Coyote81:
Tank Hunter only allows an armor penetration re-roll. No +1 S.

I'd be more interested in the Interceptor option on Command Suits (or, frighteningly enough, Riptides), who have more slots to spare than standard Crisis loadouts tend to.

That said, I don't think the Tau Interceptor option will be optimal against Flyers, but rather against other Deep Striking units. In particular, Riptides with Interceptor seem to invalidate practically all big Deep Strike units-- Farsight blobs are dead on arrival if this option is available! Units in Drop Pods are semi-safe and Nurgle Obliterators can grit their teeth and take it to an extent, but everything else is going to have to deploy the old-fashioned way. The prospect of getting nailed by a strength 8 AP 2 large blast at the end of your Movement phase (and hence prior to having a chance to move) is just too brutal for most Deep Strikers.

Interestingly, Daemons seem to be the strongest against this, since their Invulnerable saves don't care about AP2-- but somehow I doubt they'll be too happy about it either!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Coyote81 wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Therion wrote:

Good thing is, that you can combine the two on Crisis suits but then you can have only one weapon (the Crisis can take 3 weapons/support systems in any combination).

Bit pricey to spend 25 points extra per Battlesuit and weaken its armament overall just so that it could cause one S7 missile pod hit against a flyer entering play.

Well, you can still have it if you want it .

Coyote81:
Tank Hunter only allows an armor penetration re-roll. No +1 S.

Thanks, guess thats what i get for finally having any army with tank hunter. Now I know. Just like I had to look up monster hunter the other day. Totally forgot it was even in the book

 Kingsley wrote:
I'd be more interested in the Interceptor option on Command Suits (or, frighteningly enough, Riptides), who have more slots to spare than standard Crisis loadouts tend to.

That said, I don't think the Tau Interceptor option will be optimal against Flyers, but rather against other Deep Striking units. In particular, Riptides with Interceptor seem to invalidate practically all big Deep Strike units-- Farsight blobs are dead on arrival if this option is available! Units in Drop Pods are semi-safe and Nurgle Obliterators can grit their teeth and take it to an extent, but everything else is going to have to deploy the old-fashioned way. The prospect of getting nailed by a strength 8 AP 2 large blast at the end of your Movement phase (and hence prior to having a chance to move) is just too brutal for most Deep Strikers.

Interestingly, Daemons seem to be the strongest against this, since their Invulnerable saves don't care about AP2-- but somehow I doubt they'll be too happy about it either!

I had a similiar thought, i will be taking interceptor over skyfire I think. Its far cheaper and gives me a chance to take out that helldrake/vendetta before it kills a bunch of my units. where as, with skyfire, I have to hope my unit lives thru the flyer attack before I can shoot at it.

If you fire a weapon with interceptor though, you can't fire it in the next shooting phase. Note to self, don't waste your SMS/Plasma Rifles shooting at flyers I guess.

 Materia_Master wrote:

Or use a (very easy to obtain) markerlight and shoot it with a Hammerhead.
Or give the a crisis suit an onagar gauntlet and falcon pawnch the enemy tank. (might as well give the suit a melta, for synergy)

Railhead, with BS5 and cover save stripped, has 13.89% chance of destroying AV14 vehicle with one shot. I agree in principle that AV14 should be hard to destroy, but why then many other armies can spam craploads of anti-AV14 weaponry? Dark Eldar can spam BS4 lances, IG and Space Marines can spam Lascannons and Multi-meltas, Necrons can spam God knows what. Why aren't we allowed to spam Railguns, then? And don't tell me "but we have other means like Piranhas lol". Piranhas suck, and other armies have just as many "alternative" means.

What many people are forgetting that in 5th edition, Railgun could destroy or immobilize vehicles with glancing hits. This was important, particularly against Battlewagon lists. Now, glancing hits usually need multiple turns to have effect, so switch to 6ed already nerfed them somewhat.

Chrysis wrote:

Wolfnid420 wrote:
Two handed implies a boost in strength does it not? Like a power axe maybe? So kroot when down but realy +2S=5?

No, Two-Handed implies it can't be combined with other weapons for bonus attacks, nothing more. It might give bonus strength, but that's not guaranteed.

Kroot rifle is strength: User, AP5, 2-handed. It does not confer strength bonus, the "bonus" from being two-handed is AP5. It's annoying that people just gush "but they make great cheap snipers!", yeah, but maybe everyone does not always WANT to use sniper option? Aren't regular line Kroot supposed to be useful too? Only minor saving grace I can think of is that Krootox no longer seems to limit Infiltration or Outflanking, or at least I can't see anything hinting to that direction.

I'd be more interested in the Interceptor option on Command Suits (or, frighteningly enough, Riptides

I'm not sure the Riptide has the same wargear options as the Crisis and Broadside teams.

i will be taking interceptor over skyfire I think. Its far cheaper and gives me a chance to take out that helldrake/vendetta

You just won't hit a barn door without skyfire.

 Therion wrote:

I'd be more interested in the Interceptor option on Command Suits (or, frighteningly enough, Riptides

I'm not sure the Riptide has the same wargear options as the Crisis and Broadside teams.

It does. Okay it can't take the shield generator and the vectored retro thrusters, but that's all.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Therion wrote:

I'd be more interested in the Interceptor option on Command Suits (or, frighteningly enough, Riptides

I'm not sure the Riptide has the same wargear options as the Crisis and Broadside teams.

It does. Okay it can't take the shield generator and the vectored retro thrusters, but that's all.

Does the wargear that grants skyfire give the suit the option to use it/not use it, or are you forced to snap shooting ground targets a la Hydras if you purchase the upgrade?

 Therion wrote:

Does the wargear that grants skyfire give the suit the option to use it/not use it, or are you forced to snap shooting ground targets a la Hydras if you purchase the upgrade?

You can choose to use it. So yeah , it isn't that super bad on Riptides w/Ion Cannons.

RogueRegault wrote:

Coyote81 wrote:
I think its incredily hard to be sure we can't come up with unique combos to deal with opposing Av14. Just with a quick thought I came up with the idea of having a suit cmdr with a nero chip in a broadside squad to start the game. (just at the start mind you) Shoot some marklights at that landraider you want dead. 3 marker hits = +1BS and no cover saves. The nero chip gives you tankhunter. So We would be shooting S9 twin linked AP1 railguns at the landraider with rerolls to pen. Thats effectively as good as having BS3 S10 railguns. With target lock those guys can shoot at different targets then their missile drones, and the drones can shoot at light vehicles with their missiles at effective S8 with rerolls to pen as well. Take a drone controller and call it a day. If your feeling froggy, get a ADL and Lascannon (I prefer it with all the helldrakes roaming around) and now the cmdr can ace flyers and have a S10 lascannon for the landraider as well.

Specifics aside, you just need to get creative.

Where is the +1 S coming from?

Tank Hunters

EDIT: ... would have given this you in 4th/5th, but now just gives you a reroll... Dammit, brain, why can I remember what Missile Lock does but not this? >.<

 Therion wrote:

I'd be more interested in the Interceptor option on Command Suits (or, frighteningly enough, Riptides

I'm not sure the Riptide has the same wargear options as the Crisis and Broadside teams.

i will be taking interceptor over skyfire I think. Its far cheaper and gives me a chance to take out that helldrake/vendetta

You just won't hit a barn door without skyfire.

A 1/3 chance to hitting a flyer with twinlinked isn't all that bad. Did it over and over in 6th so far with Tau. Being able to take that shot before the flyer kills my army seems like a better way of playing.

I'd like to know more about Fireblade? Is he a full HQ taking up a slot? What options does he have? Can he get any fancy weapons or other gear? Is that daft looking armour just for show, or can he actually get improved save?

Someone with english copy of the codex pm me please.

Backfire wrote:

 Materia_Master wrote:

Or use a (very easy to obtain) markerlight and shoot it with a Hammerhead.
Or give the a crisis suit an onagar gauntlet and falcon pawnch the enemy tank. (might as well give the suit a melta, for synergy)

Railhead, with BS5 and cover save stripped, has 13.89% chance of destroying AV14 vehicle with one shot. I agree in principle that AV14 should be hard to destroy, but why then many other armies can spam craploads of anti-AV14 weaponry? Dark Eldar can spam BS4 lances, IG and Space Marines can spam Lascannons and Multi-meltas, Necrons can spam God knows what. Why aren't we allowed to spam Railguns, then? And don't tell me "but we have other means like Piranhas lol". Piranhas suck, and other armies have just as many "alternative" means.

Outside of 12" a multi-melta has exactly the same odds of killing an AV14 vehicle as the new Railgun, except the new Railgun has a 60" range and is twin-linked. If Piranhas and Fusion options suck, then why are multi-meltas so amazing?

Dark Eldar have vehicles (and troops) made of paper. To match the 13.89% chance of one-shotting an AV14 vehicle you'd need 3 BS4 Lascannons. Assuming 3 Railheads, a Marine player would have to get 9 Lascannons to match the firepower. Is this doable? Absolutely. When was the last time you saw a Marine player take 9 Lascannons?

Necrons are silly as hell. Using them as a benchmark for how powerful an army should be won't end well for the game as a whole.

Some stuff about Sky Rays:
So they are technically the same. Seeker Missiles, 2 Networked Markerlights and... a velocity tracker! So it has 2 Skyfire Networked Markerlights. Not bad for AA if you ask me (better than the Broadside that's for sure)!

That all depends on the point cost of the skyray. At 8pts seeker missiles still seem too expensive. I was hoping the ones on the skyray would be unlimited.

Coyote81 wrote:
That all depends on the point cost of the skyray. At 8pts seeker missiles still seem too expensive. I was hoping the ones on the skyray would be unlimited.

It is 115 points. And BS4.

And another good news for me: the Broadside high-yield missile pod is twin-linked! Yessss!

And another thing: any Gun Drone in a Drone Squadron can be upgraded to Marker Drone. For free. Doh !

I'll add that the voltaic staff also only has a 12" range so you have pretty much the same problem that people are complaining about with using crisis to pop AV14...sure you pop the raider...then whatever you popped the raider with gets eaten by what was inside/nearby. The differences being that the necrons sacrifice a troops slot rather than a more valuable and limited elite (at least for tau they are more valuable), while the crisis suits can move 2d6" away in the assault phase, leaving them a little less vulnerable to counter-attack.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If Piranhas and Fusion options suck, then why are multi-meltas so amazing?

Because Multi-Meltas are available on: Dreadnoughts, Marines, Land Raiders, Land Speeders, Storm Ravens, Devastators, and Land Speeder Typhoons.

The point here is that you can bring a ton of them. Sure Fusion Blasters are available on a lot of stuff too but it is also an inferior weapon to the Multi-Melta to begin with so that is a poor comparison for several reasons. In the argument about the new Broadside Railgun being gak the Lascannon is a better comparison.

Lascannons are available on: Dreadnoughts, Marines, Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Storm Talons, Devastators, Razorbacks, and Predators.

Proper Railguns (Rail Cannon in new codex) are available on: Hammerhead.

Tau having access to ranged high-strength weaponry only on the Hammerhead is rubbish. Sure, they want the Fusion Blaster to be relevant and the change to 18" accomplishes this but then simultaneously gutting the army's access to ranged high-strength AT is less a move towards options and more a move towards forcing Tau in to a different way of playing.

Options are fun and make for a characterful army (like 5th ed Space Marines); we are seeing this in the heaps of goodies being thrown at infantry through drones and characters. The simultaneous gutting of the book's access to ranged S10 and the improvement of the Fusion Blaster makes sure that Tau will have a single ideal playstyle when confronted with AV14; one-dimensional armies are frustrating and boring.


The real question is if SM players will have to stones to run a Land Raider spam list in this glancetacular edition. Most probably won't but those few that see Tau more often than not may and will single-handedly force that Tau player into a single playstyle because the book lacks variety when dealing with heavy armor. Think Orks and their AV14 woes, but not as bad of course because the Hammerhead still exists.

 AtoMaki wrote:
Some stuff about Sky Rays:
So they are technically the same. Seeker Missiles, 2 Networked Markerlights and... a velocity tracker! So it has 2 Skyfire Networked Markerlights. Not bad for AA if you ask me (better than the Broadside that's for sure)!

So far less points than two Broadsides, far cheaper buy than two Broadsides ($60 vs $100), more accurate, longer range, more survivable, better army synergy due to seekers. Between this and the cost reduction for the Hammerhead the Broadside is now the worst of the old-guard Tau Heavy Support and it is the only one to get a new model. Are they trying to keep people from buying Broadsides?

I understand giving favorite units the shaft so people have to buy new stuff but when the favorite unit gets an absurdly expensive new model kit why go ahead and gut it anyways? Wouldn't they want to make it the coolest, most mandatory Heavy Support choice? I'm not sure if this is good-guy GW buffing tanks that need to be buffed or if it is dumb-guy GW trying their hardest to shoot themselves in the foot.

You know here's a thought points tax to play pathfinders and stealth suits in troops slots. 2 points per model for pathfinders. 5 points for stealth suits Max of 3 troops slots can be "bought" per Foc. Then we can actually get enough mobility and lights to make synergy work. And no a laser designator on a gun should not be heavy. You look down sights hit button unit painted. Goes on priority board unit moves on. Think real world or do none of you have gun experience?

 AtoMaki wrote:

Coyote81 wrote:
That all depends on the point cost of the skyray. At 8pts seeker missiles still seem too expensive. I was hoping the ones on the skyray would be unlimited.

It is 115 points. And BS4.

And another good news for me: the Broadside high-yield missile pod is twin-linked! Yessss!

And another thing: any Gun Drone in a Drone Squadron can be upgraded to Marker Drone. For free. Doh !

Whats the limit on the Drone Upgrade? Can all of them do this or just a few?

 SonicPara wrote:

The real question is if SM players will have to stones to run a Land Raider spam list in this glancetacular edition. Most probably won't but those few that see Tau more often than not may and will single-handedly force that Tau player into a single playstyle because the book lacks variety when dealing with heavy armor. Think Orks and their AV14 woes, but not as bad of course because the Hammerhead still exists.

How is this any different from a Marine player more or less having to get multiple meltaguns up close to reliably kill a Land Raider? Lascannons have roughly a 5.5% chance per BS4 shot outside of cover to kill a Land Raider. It's hardly reliable anti-AV14 firepower.

Spartan_Tau wrote:
You know here's a thought points tax to play pathfinders and stealth suits in troops slots. 2 points per model for pathfinders. 5 points for stealth suits Max of 3 troops slots can be "bought" per Foc. Then we can actually get enough mobility and lights to make synergy work. And no a laser designator on a gun should not be heavy. You look down sights hit button unit painted. Goes on priority board unit moves on. Think real world or do none of you have gun experience?

That's not how laser-guided munitions work at all. You've got to continuously mark the target until the weapon hits, hence the heavy.

 Lysenis wrote:
Whats the limit on the Drone Upgrade? Can all of them do this or just a few?

Any of them can do it.

For those who are interested, here are some pics with 100% more english:

Laser guided bombs have a laser in the nose of the bomb. You highlight target till bomb takes over.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
How is this any different from a Marine player more or less having to get multiple meltaguns up close to reliably kill a Land Raider? Lascannons have roughly a 5.5% chance per BS4 shot outside of cover to kill a Land Raider. It's hardly reliable anti-AV14 firepower.

Sure it isn't reliable, but you have it. S10 Railguns don't have much better of a chance to hit or to destroy a AV14 tank but you miss 100% of the shots you don't get to take because the Empire's eggheads downgraded your XV-88's gear.

The point is that S9 and S10 are both gambles against AV14 and when you are playing the odds game one thing ensures success, frequency. Packing 10+ lascannons in a SM list is not only possible but it is easy to do; that is a lot of chances to pop AV14 or at least glance it. Tau now have at most 3 chances while under 2000 points and 6 chances while over 2000 points to pop that AV14.

The point here is that Tau cannot bring enough shots to the table to either realistically glance AV14 to death or penetrate it.

It is an overnight shift from 12 years of established identity.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Lysenis wrote:
Whats the limit on the Drone Upgrade? Can all of them do this or just a few?

Any of them can do it.

For those who are interested, here are some pics with 100% more english:

Spoiler:

Thanks for the info!

The Riptide looks immense

I wish vehicles could change out their gundrones for missile drones.

What does the rule "Hammerhead Ace" entail exactly?