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I recently got some IG vehicles to convert into some Ork vehicles for my army and I was wondering if it would be better to turn them into Looted Wagons or Battlewagons. Is the Looted Wagon any good in 6th edition? Or are you better off just going with Battlewagons notably because of there durability?

Two vehicles for two different jobs. You don't really want a killkanon on a b/w.

Looted wagons have improved slightly in 6th (only partial coverage of template does full damage, glancing can't take off the boomgun etc) but are still expensive compared to similar vehicles in different armies.

So the question is: do you want a strong transport or a glass canon.

Personally I love looted wagons and generally run two in games over 1000 points (one converted from a basilisk and the other a hammerhead). That said I generally run two battle wagons as well!

You can always convert in such a way so that you have a removable gun (and maybe a removable DeffRola) so that you can run as both (but not at the same time )

Cheers.

You can never go wrong with BW's!! Looted vehicles can be good. My dice rolling with them is good. Killed plenty of marines with them!.. Though from turn 2/3 they are less effective since you are closing in and friendly fire with str 8 ap3?? Id build looted wagons but give priotity to BW's!

No. Looted wagons are garbage. Don't do it.

If you want them for modeling /conversions ally with IG and use uppity grots for guardsmen.

 schadenfreude wrote:
No. Looted wagons are garbage. Don't do it.

If you want them for modeling /conversions ally with IG and use uppity grots for guardsmen.

I use a looted wagon, but this is a great point. Never thought about it that way. for basically the same points you can get an Av 14 leman Russ....or Av 11 wagon....

if you don't want allies then just be very conscious or its deployment. Keep it in cover and behind walls from enemy ranged high strength weapons. It WILL die, otherwise.

great thing is, if you build them from kits, you can use them as both. All my battlwagons are converted and do double duty as looted wagons.

IG allied tanks are in every way better than a looted wagon. I have a Basilisk I used many editions ago when Orks could "loot" actual Basilisks. Shelved it (mostly, but always had good luck with it when I used it ) until 6th and now field it with Guard allies.
You won't find Looted wagons in competitive lists, but if you are not going to field allies, and love making "...whistle.......BOOM!" noises, it is the biggest, baddest gun in the Codex.

Why don't you have a look at some of the ork vehicles in IA8? You could make flakk trakks, or even battlewagons with supa kannons

it is kinda sad that the looted wagon is only slightly cheaper than allying in IG with russes. It also gives you access to a BS5 guy to man the gun behind the ADL (since you need an HQ anyway).

I understand orks arent ranged and theyre suppose to have crap shooting, but it is kinda dumb when theyre ~30points cheaper than something WAY more deadly (deffdredds in the same boat).

Looted Wagons are still fun though. Pi plates dont wiff that often even with bs2 since its so big, but your bigger issue is "YOU PRESS'D DAT! YOU GIT!" ......yea thats always annoying.
However my main issue with them is because of their squishyness i can never field them and not feel like i have a gaping hole in my army because my heavy slot is a med-range squishy bullet-magnet. Every list i can think of where i want them, im already using my heavy slots.

I usally only run Looted Wagons if I need a quick and cheap Heavy Support to fill out a list. I think that in the long run its more effective to do a 'conversion cover' for your IG tanks so that if you ever want to run them as LWs, you can just snap on the converted pieces to it and away your orks go!

So based on what I'm hearing from you guys Battlewagons are the way to go unless I want one or so Looted Wagons floating about for the hell of it.

Another question, is it more worth it to use Dakkajets or IG allies for anti-air? Since I was already considering using IG allies for anti-armor and to man some defenses, is it worth the points or do Orks not need it? Maybe chaos make better allies?

 ArchVile wrote:
So based on what I'm hearing from you guys Battlewagons are the way to go unless I want one or so Looted Wagons floating about for the hell of it.

Another question, is it more worth it to use Dakkajets or IG allies for anti-air? Since I was already considering using IG allies for anti-armor and to man some defenses, is it worth the points or do Orks not need it? Maybe chaos make better allies?

As to the question of DakkaJets, I'll let you know as soon as I use one! LOL. I just bought the model off of a friend and got the rules. I'm kicking around the idea of using it in this week's 1500pt game in my area on Sunday.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I understand orks arent ranged and theyre suppose to have crap shooting

I wouldn't say that, Orks have pretty good shooting in some cases as they can pump out a lot of shots, take a look at the Dakkajet or Lootas for example, where they are arguably the 2 best units in the codex, and Shoota Boyz are now more popular than before since the transaction to 6E.

Back on topic though, the Looted Wagon isn't that great as it competes for a HS slot with the Battlewagon, which both as a Transport and Killy Machine is better (And only 60pts more standard). Killa Kanz and Kannons or also decent HS choices and that makes Looted Wagons at least 4th on the list (Behind Deff dreads and Flash Gitz) that means that you're probably not going to be taking one. Back in the days of 5E the only good way to take a wagon was having Skorchas with Burna Boyz for a lot of flamer shots, but I've not tried it in 6E so can't say.

If you really wanted to convert some looted wagons though, I wouldn't mind you proxying one as an Ork Trukk, providing it's a Rhino or similar dimensions to that of a trukk, after all, doing Orks is all about conversions!

Dakkajets are the bees knees. I'm sure that point for point valkyries are still better at taking down flyers but theyre also some 80 ing dollars. Dakkajets are just plain fun. they are the destruction of all light armor and infantry alike. Only Av 12 flyers pose a true problem for them, anything else will more than likely drop from the sky the turn you shoot it. Plus orks iz betta den any a dem squishy 'umies.

Dakkajets are the bees knees. I'm sure that point for point valkyries are still better at taking down flyers but theyre also some 80 ing dollars. Dakkajets are just plain fun. they are the destruction of all light armor and infantry alike. Only Av 12 flyers pose a true problem for them, anything else will more than likely drop from the sky the turn you shoot it. Plus orks iz betta den any a dem squishy 'umies.

I don't know.. I'm just not 100% sold on how great people say they are. There anti-infantry capabilities seems redundant and I often run two decently sized squads of Lootas to take care of light armor; on occasion I'll even use Tankbustas. That leaves the Dakkajet with the role of anti-air which with a str 6 weapon its capable of but that's assuming it doesn't get destroyed first and the other flyer doesn't have high armor. I just figure that for a bit more points you could get a higher BS allied unit on a quad gun or something to do the same job but now far more reliably. I suppose in the purest sense of how annoying flyers are makes the dakkajet worth it and the fact that other Ork fast attack units tend to be a mixed bunch but still that doesn't sound like that great of a reason to use it.

I have a 3 Dakkajet list and they work out great, they always earn their points back (WD Rules as dont want to get that DFS crap ) and they are extremely versatile, there'll always be something on the board they can shoot at with an effect, whether it's popping transports or piling wounds on marines, and what's better is you can combine them with Lootas for lots of High Str Firepower, and with some Kannons filling up your heavy if you go footslogging that's a pretty good list.

thats the same reason i usually dont run dakkajets - its more shots at the same strength i already have a lot of thanks to lootas thats easy as hell to get rid of (Av10 means if he actually didnt take it down with bigger weapons he can still shoot at it with random infantry, since most troops have Str4 weapons he can glance it to death at the least).
My dakkajets never survive more than 1 turn, even if i use the max range of their gun because they are stupid squishy and a big target. On top of that, for the cost i can get far more shots from lootas that are usually much harder to get because of their range. Only upside is dakkajets take up FA slots, not elites.
They desperately need AV11 fronts at the LEAST imo
EDIT: And i wouldnt even call them an AA unit because Str6 is crap. Majority of air that non-orks will take are AV11+, meaning Str6 will either do nothing or just cause a glance or two (MAYBE a pen).

I don't think you can ever have too much high str shooting with Orks, particularly when you need it hitting on 5's and all, as most hits will wound, I see the rest of an ork army as the support for the boyz and nobz, which are pretty decent in assaul if you have high numbers, the high S shooting allows you to pop transports or weaken down units for the boyz to be able to do a good job. And now that assaulting is slightly less appeallin due to things like overwatch, I think it's good to get a lot of bang for your buck and shoot them to death.

Also, yes S4 can glance a dakkajet to death, but you do know you hit flyers on 6's right? Even at rapid fire range a squad of boltguns would just about take a hullpoint off an average (considering that 1 of the 3 and a bit hits ends up in a 6) and what are you doing that close to a squad anyway when your gun has 30" range? Fair enough you need to move a flyer but in moving it you get a turn of shooting in which it is capable of doing something useful for your army.

Ive actually only had my dakkajet get hit by infantry fire twice, it usually dies to the 2-3 Lascannons or some other high strength long-range shot because yea its 6s to hit but if he hits me im dead end of story. Every other flier atleast has SOME security because of AV11+, dakkajets dont.
Also like i said i have bad luck on pen rolls. About 80% of the time a vehicle of mine (land or air) gets penned it blows up, AP2 or not. you tend to get biased oppoinions when that happens to you EVERY time.
EDIT: And i never make my jink saves.

Not every flier

My Razorwings are just as Spongy as my Bommas

For me Dakkajets are throwaway dakkabuckets. They zoom on on turn 2, you waaagh! to double their shots, then they pummel some poor light armour/infantry/flier to death.

Then they die, job done.

MY Razorwings are the same way. Zoom on, missiles and disintegrators away, die..

I've been reading up on the DakkaJet rules and I'm just salavating at the thought of using it. Heck, Fighta Ace alone gives a +1 to your BS and then add on another +1 to BS when you're firing on non-skimmer units with the 'Strafing Run" rule? EPIC!

I can't wait to start kitbashing my DakkaJet tomorrow! I'm doing a cross between the 'Da Flying Fortress' show in WD 12/2012 and an actual B-17. I'll post pics for the WIP if anyone is interested.

I would just ally in IG instead of buying a Looted Wagon. Get a russ and a few heavy weapon squads in your platoon and you'll be sitting pretty. Could even throw in a Master of the Ordinance or Astropath to help out.

 Ascalam wrote:
Not every flier

My Razorwings are just as Spongy as my Bommas

For me Dakkajets are throwaway dakkabuckets. They zoom on on turn 2, you waaagh! to double their shots, then they pummel some poor light armour/infantry/flier to death.

Then they die, job done.

MY Razorwings are the same way. Zoom on, missiles and disintegrators away, die..

So you pay 360/390pts (depending on fighta ace taken or not) for a one trick pony that probably wont kill its own points worth unless it somehow survived that one turn?
It doesnt fire enough to make its points unless you roll insane dice and the enemy flops his/her saves. I know you cant expect everything to kill more points than its worth, theres bound to be throwaways for the greater good, i dont see these as a good one. Ive had all 3 arrive on turn 2, call my waaagh, shoot 18x3 TL shots at BS3, kill ~200pts of stuff and then die to the first thing that fired at me so it wasnt even a distraction.
It pains me to argue against the dakkajet because the model is so damn cool and i love my blue-flame dakkajet paintjob, it just feels like almost as bad as taking a deffdredd (almost because it atleast does SOMETHING when it arrives, deffdredd usually doesnt do anything)

Actually, they've ALWAYS made their points back, or more, for me... (or altered the flow of the battle in a way that justifies them)

The trick is to know what to fire them at, and how that unit will effect the battle as a whole.

If you don't like Dakkajets, don't run them. They've always done me stellar service.

They usually draw enough fire off of my other units after a WAAGH turn Dakka-enema to fully justify them dying also, as players tend to get a bit twitchy when yo roll a bucket of dice at them

Most units in 40K are one-trick ponies. Lootas sure are, for example. If it's a really good trick, who cares

I can pretty much guarantee, for example, that my Razorwings will devastate whatever unit i sic them on, especially if i make sure to trash that unit's ride first. I've had 320 -odd pts of razorwings (2 fighters) destroy 1000 pt deathstars before, for example

Dakkajets are the same way. Use them to sod up important units (like cutting the transport out from under a nasty assault unit) or pummel a small expensive unit to death from sheer weight of fire, like a unit of terminators or Oblits. Works even better with three firing, rather than just one, for me. You can focus on one jet at a time to make sure the unit is dead or running, then if there is stilla jet unshot, you can change targets with that one.

You must be having lousy luck with your Bommas if they die the first time someone points a gun at them. They have to hit them first, after all. and Bommas aren't 1 HP. It's not uncommon for me to have at least one and more usually 2 still alive on the next turn, though less effective on a non-waagh turn.

YMMV of course

oh yea they have 3hp i know but its always some Str8+ weapon that happens to hit them which only needs a 3 to pen and they almost always are AP2 and roll a 5+. Think ive had a dakkajet actually utilize more than 1 HP like twice? but thats my luck with any vehicle...even the AV14 of my BW if it actually gets pen'd its dead with my luck.
I tend to avoid armors now. Really find it annoying that vehicles have health and can still be killed outright by anything less than the BIG guns out there. Especially since that majority of vehicles dont even have a 6+ save unless theyre hiding in a ruin (and probably not doing anything)

My dakka jets are ace as well... I would never not run them anymore.

If you play with Imperial Armour units I would strongly suggest making some Big Trakks, they are from IA8. I have one that I made from a leman russ that good be used as a looted wagon with a boom gun, but I run it as a Big Trakk with a Supa Kannon (60" range, S9 Ap3 Ordnance L Blast). They are almost the same point cost but really help out when trying to shoot high armour enemy targets. I also just made a Big Trakk with a Flakka Gun (48" range S7 Ap4 heavy 4 interceptor skyfire) from a rhino, it is cheap and so far it has done pretty well. It is just another thing to help against fyers.

Allied IG can include.

A looted Leman Russ manned by grots

Some uppity grots with looted lasguns.

A grot leader with a Napoleon complex, but enough common sense and self preservation to know the warboss is boss.

A looted vendetta piloted by a fighta ace (effectively bs3 against everything)

The vendetta can have a bomb bay door. About 20 grots are volentold/herded inside and locked inside where they find lasguns and only 10 gravchutes. When the vendetta reaches an objective the pilot opens the bomb bay door and 10 surviving grots have gravchutes to save them from falling to their death. After they land the surviving grots should be half crazed (and at guardsmen stats)

Well, Sunday has come and gone as well as my use of the DakkaJet. Only problem that I had with it was that the SupaShootas couldn't do much against a Necron Ghost/Doomsday Ark (AV13 with those freaking shields). :( But in other news, I did annihilate a squad of warriors in one round!

I'm kinda on the fence in regards to using it as a Burna or Blitza Bommer. Burna Bombs and Skorcha missiles are even worse for STR ratings. Ignores cover has appeal. So I'm still leaning on using DakkaJets with the 3 TL SupaShootas.

 DieselJester wrote:
Well, Sunday has come and gone as well as my use of the DakkaJet. Only problem that I had with it was that the SupaShootas couldn't do much against a Necron Ghost/Doomsday Ark (AV13 with those freaking shields). :( But in other news, I did annihilate a squad of warriors in one round!

*shakes a fist in a skywardly direction*