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 Pacific wrote:
And what is wrong with WD covers from the 90's, other than them being far too awesome, and the first thing that brought a lot of us into the wargaming hobby in the first place?

As much as I love a lot of the old stuff, Dave Gallagher's monthly paintings were pretty hit and miss.

Another teaser pic:

It's already better-written and more atmospheric than Prometheus. Bravo, Mantic.

Ok, now I'm looking forward to the pdf for the background. Is this going to be it for Warpath this year, or is there another big release/revamp planned, ScarletSquig?

I think this will probably be it for 2013.

There will be 8 KoW releases per month in June/July/August, then all of the Dreadball ultimate stuff and Mantic's IP tie-in product for September/October. Probably Loka for November... they don't have much left to do on that, and it's all being handled by River Horse anyway.

Plus I'd imagine they'd be looking at shipping Deadzone wave 1 before this xmas, so that's December releases sorted.

Lots of stuff going on at once with Mantic.

I'm hoping that Deadzone takes the opportunity to not just be about skirmish, I'm not actually interested in a skirmish game and just want minis for Warpath 2.0 which is an excellent set of rules.

Note to everyone - If you haven't downloaded that already, go do it!
It's a free 80-page full-colour .pdf download for an excellent sci-fi gaming system, it is loaded with artwork, background and the rules themselves have gone through multiple online public beta tests to really refine them into something great.

It's better than 40k, so much much easier to learn, the army lists are properly balanced, the game takes a third of the time to play compared to 40k, the rules are clearly written, the game balance is taken seriously and designed for tournament play.

You don't have to wait 10 years for the codex for your favourite army to be released (yes, I do have an eldar army which currently *still* has an early 4th edition codex in the middle of 6th ), all the army lists are written at the same time, and updated at the same time. Updates generally occur once per year while a game is in active beta, once the game moves to hardback book and official release, it all gets updated on a 5-year cycle with the rules and army book released at the same time.

Wait, so is it going to be a boardgame, or a set of skirmish rules for two (all?) factions?

I'd take both, but I'd rather have the latter, and for it to encompass all the models they've released.

^ It is going to be a set of skirmish rules for all factions, not just two.

I imagine the plague and enforcers will make up the bulk of the model releases at the start of the kickstarter (they'll be wanting to 100% release the full armies for both of those factions), then later on if it's doing really well they'll move on to bulking out the other factions.

In a lot of ways this should do for Warpath what last year's KS did for KoW, getting an absolute ton of new restic units out of the door so that the armies can start to feel "complete" in terms of almost every unit having a model, rather than looking half-finished, which I think is the main thing putting people off Warpath at the moment, the model range isn't quite there yet, too many units don't have a model released.

ScarletSquig, do you have any idea about what sort of scale 'skirmish' we are going to be dealing with regarding Deadzone? Is it going to be more like Warpath 2, which is probably at the upper limit in terms of model count as to what people would regard as a skirmish system, or lower with something like Necromunda/Infinity model counts?

And leading on from this I suppose we can make assumptions about the style of rules - obviously something that has the smaller model count will be less abstract, more of individual miniatures rather than units taking more detailed actions rather than bigger squads moving and attacking each other in a more abstract manner.

Anyway, your thoughts or what you might know about this would be very appreciated!

Wait!! Is dead zone not gonna be a Mordheim type game?

The model count is going to be around 5-10 minis for the enforcers, and more for the plague (10+ minis).

So, it's very much a Mordheim or Necromunda scale of skirmish game with 5-30 figures a side.

Scenario play will feature heavily and be the core of the game.

As long as it is a Necromunda type game at its core, I'm in. WYSIWYG models that can purchase and change equipment and have team members permanently die and gain xp if they survive is the ultimate type of gaming.

Pretty sure there will be "gang development" type rules

As someone who has never played Necromunda, though, I must say I have no clue how closely related the 2 games will actually be...

Will the game (Dead Zone) be set up, stat-wise, like Malifaux where you are issue a fixed set of stats for a particular miniature?

Or will it be more RPG-ish? where you equip a unit with guns, armor, etc ?

Earth Dragon wrote:
As long as it is a Necromunda type game at its core, I'm in. WYSIWYG models that can purchase and change equipment and have team members permanently die and gain xp if they survive is the ultimate type of gaming.

This, very much so. If they can get the same feel for the game, then I might just break into the system.

Theophony wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:
As long as it is a Necromunda type game at its core, I'm in. WYSIWYG models that can purchase and change equipment and have team members permanently die and gain xp if they survive is the ultimate type of gaming.

This, very much so. If they can get the same feel for the game, then I might just break into the system.

To add a different perspective and while I enjoyed necromunda immensely, its a fundamentally unbalanced system with problematic random upgrades and 99% of people I played with never bothered destroying their painted (or in some times unpainted) minis to make their upgrades.

It is not what I would label as ultimate wargaming experience, for me, far from it.

Yeah I have to agree. The plethora of strength 5 and above weapons in the game as well as the stupid cover rules meant that it was all too easy to wound or take out gangers in the game.

I would rather see them make something completely unique to their ruleset, rather than trying to shoe-horn in an old system.

Ugh, I'm trying to hold off purchases until this kickstarter...I'm going to spend way too much money on it...

I also think that poster looks awesome-it may have a 90s feel, but I think the poster is great.

 Fenriswulf wrote:
Yeah I have to agree. The plethora of strength 5 and above weapons in the game as well as the stupid cover rules meant that it was all too easy to wound or take out gangers in the game.

I would rather see them make something completely unique to their ruleset, rather than trying to shoe-horn in an old system.

I never said "Necromunda" was the ultimate game. I said it was the ultimate type of game. I fully well expect a new system and considering I enjoy dreadball more then blood bowl, as long as they don't over simplify and they use multi-part plastic kits as the basic boxes for the teams and not do bs pre-posed pre-armed minis, Mantic will get a triple digit number of dollars from me on this one.

Personally, scopes, grenades, reloaders and any number of other nonsense stuff I don't mind if its not on the character, but I don't tolerate people having a guy holding a flamethrower, and next thing I know you claim he is shooting an autocannon at me........it should be clearly stated to all players that is unacceptable from the get go. If you want a guy with an autocannon, buy one, or borrow one. It's not that difficult.

If you start a guy with a stub pistol, and you save up and buy him a plasma pistol, dont design the model with the snub in his hand unless you have another model on stand-by with plasma. Just glue a holster on him with a pistol in it. That way other players KNOW to ask what's in the holster, not get a surprise, or have to remember the 42 things that aren't what they look like.

These games are supposed to be fun, so I suppose one of the pre-requisites is don't be and avoid playing with power gaming douche bags. Or at the very least, only play with power gamers with money, cause ones that don't have any cause a huge headache.

I imagine there will be customization, but it won't be to the ridiculous extent of necromunda, with dozens of different pistols and heavies, a lot of which don't have models or even bitz.

E.g. you'll probably start with a basic dude who can then become a melee/heavy specialist with experience, or become an elite/leader.

It's written by Jake Thornton so you can expect a *lot* of similarities with Dreadball in terms of the campaign and exp side of things. And there should definitely be one, I'd imagine the same injury system as Dreadball will be used, it's an interesting mechanic of "how much are you willing to pay to get this guy healed?".

Most of the customization for characters is likely to be skill-based more than equipment-based.

Like with Dreadball, there's only one time you have to buy a new mini as a result of a skill upgrade, and that's when a guard becomes a keeper. This is a good thing to avoid having to chop up models every other game or have a fethload of spares to cover all eventualities. That's not just a problem for money, it's a problem for time as well since you have to paint them all up.

I imagine something similar would be in place here.

I just want an enforcers sprue out of this KS, nothing else. Lovely models, but I absolutely will not buy that £3/model hybrid restic/metal stuff.

I was at the Mantic open day last year and managed to get £15.00 of the enforcers army deal. When I got home I opened her up and wished I bought the Forge Father one instead lol.


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I think going by DKH, PP and DB we will have Dice baced checks I.E 4 dice checks reduced by range etc. There are a lot of similarities in rules between all three of these rule sets, IMO there good rules so I hope he does not stray to far. (My biggest issue with DKH and PP were the card tiles and counters, they were more like paper then card lol).

Whilst I'm fine with fewer options then Necromunda (as far as per gang), I hope the options per force aren't overly regulated. XCOM type options would be just fine. If I want a rifle on my assault troop, or turn my support into a combatant and not a medic, I could stomach that. Of course, the weapons, stats and skills of the forces need to also be extremely different.

So I'm okay with every force not having the entire list to play with once things get going, but there needs to be equipment options still (upgrades of the same type of gun at least ie. Flamer to heavy Flamer, stubber to Bolter), and some drastic differences in weapon options from group to group.

The reason Mordhiems plastic kits worked well is you had the options available in the box. So if they DO have various equipment options, the kits need to look like the Skaven kit. If they don't, they still need a specialty troop you can have 2-3 of with a few options that you can buy seperately for just a few bucks.

While there will be some nice new models for DeadZone I believe it's with the playing area mantic hope to make things stand out.

Just as long as the miniatures aren't Dreadball minis with guns added on...

Honestly, the terrain kits need to be really cheap and not made of restic to interest me. There are so many terrain companies on the market now, that it makes a strange focus for a Mantic Kickstarter.

I'm surprised nobody's attempted to replicate the Necromunda style 'plastic bulkheads + card walkways' in the last few years, given how pricey the bulkheads are on ebay.

Not that I have any inkling what Mantic's plans are, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was along those lines.

Nope, not card terrain. All plastic.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Nope, not card terrain. All plastic.

Probably best. Given the advances in production technology over the last 20 years it's got to be more viable, and will definitely look better.

I was just thinking along more general lines, that any company that made a backwards-compatible bulkhead sprue would surely make money off it from the nostalgia crowd. Surprised nobody's tried it.

Hmmmmm. Some interesting stuff. Excitement level has definitely dropped, but this should still be interesting.

Any clue as to dates?

That artwork of 'spikey' reminds me of the bad guys from the defunct Aeon/Trinity game, specifically their skirmish game Battleground. That's a good thing btw.

As for Mantic itself, they lost a lot of my interest when they went half into the hard plastic kit business. If they had released that elven cavalry in plastic instead of metal and later resin, I would have a table full of that stuff. If you want to sh!t in the same pool as GW, don't use worse quality materials then GW (restic)! Bought a decent amount of plastic undead, but the dwarves were Meh again... Didn't really like Kings of War as a system. With Warpath my interest was low, it perked up at the mention of plastic sci-fi dwarves and orcs, but pretty much went away again when I saw the plastic/metal hybrid kit, ugh! Didn't have any money for the Dreadball KS. I am pretty interested what Mantic will do with a sci-fi skirmish game, more plastic scenery is good, and I like the concept art of the plague. I am also very interested in the Enforcers, really like the design (but not the annoying material), have a plan for them as 25mm Clan troops (without Elemental Battle armor), but still need to paint and build a lot of other stuff before I ever get to those (I hear they are horrible to assemble)...

I would like to see Mantic do away with the restic crap and use decent plastics that can be cut and glued like regular plastic modeling kits (and not with a heavy duty exato and 2-part epoxy). If companies like Dreamforge and Malifaux can do it, why can't Mantic? I would like to see a very well filled 2 man starter set for Deadzone, enough to start playing.

^ spot on!

Restic's okay, (at least the few pieces I have so far are), I think the main complaints are over the restic/metal hybrid kits.

Cergorach wrote:
I would like to see Mantic do away with the restic crap and use decent plastics that can be cut and glued like regular plastic modeling kits (and not with a heavy duty exato and 2-part epoxy). If companies like Dreamforge and Malifaux can do it, why can't Mantic? I would like to see a very well filled 2 man starter set for Deadzone, enough to start playing.

This is basically the majority opinion that everyone has been letting Mantic know loud and clear ever since they released their first metal units.

I'd also like a majority of hard plastic, but as a skirmish game we're probably going to be looking at almost all restic.

As long as they at least do a basic enforcers sprue (covering all heavy and assault options) and a couple of plague sprues I'll be happy.

At the very least there shouldn't be any (horribly expensive and impossible to put together) hybrid metal crap. There wasn't any of that in either the KoW or Dreadball Kickstarters, so it's a dead cert that it won't be making an appearance here.

In general, I'd like to see more ambition from Mantic... basically, the plastic moulds for the elves were really expensive and haven't made back their cost in sales.. they were a complete write-off for the company in terms of profit and it seems that ever since that happened they've avoided hard plastic like the plague to make sure that the same thing doesn't happen again. I'm just glad kickstarter is something that allows for them to dispense with that concern.

Kickstarters aside, they've been ultra-cautious and it'll probably be at least a year before they get back into hard plastic. They have 3-up greens already produced for certain units (orc archers are already 100% done) that have never seen the light of day due to the plug being pulled on hard plastic production at some point in late 2011.. since then a false start was made to make more (the ill-fated chinese goblin sprue), and now we're getting the KoW humans done as a sprue which will probably be a further "test" to see if their new tooling company sucks or not... and only after that has been delivered will we see more sprues start to trickle out.

It isn't just the tooling either, they've got a new digital sculpting workflow going on where Remy's sculpts get 3d-scanned and then cut up and arranged on sprues digitally for hard plastic production. So that's something that they're getting to grips with as well, using the same workflow as Malifaux, Dreamforge etc. instead of their previous non-digital methods.