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 Manchu wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
I know Ouze mentioned that Booker was appalingly racist...

Where was this again? Finished the game but never found him to be appallingly racist

Spoiler:

you know, until the end when "he" turns out to also be "him"

From Ouze's post here

 Ouze wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Are you talking about Elizabeth? She's a main character.

Well, from being 3 hours or so in, it appears the main character is actually appaling racism.

But to answer your subsequent question, no - you do not need to play the prior games to play this one, there is no link that I am aware of between their stories. The gameplay mechanics are very similar, though, so if you wind up hating this, you may profitably skip going back to Bioshock as well.

Unless I'm misreading appaling racism.

But you're right, I NEVER got the impression that Booker was a racist, even if you played him as such, I don't really remember too many times that the game was like, "look people of color, mistreat them!" I mean the 1 time that I easily remember is the raffle scene at the beginning.. you get the option to throw at them, but you never do...

The closest I saw was when Elizabeth asked him about segregation, why things are like that, and he said "they just are."

 Manchu wrote:
The closest I saw was when Elizabeth asked him about segregation, why things are like that, and he said "they just are."

And to be honest, in 1912 America... they, sadly, were just that way

So...many...references...

They even got Thomas-Alexandre Dumas with the line about the short, blind, mulatto, French man.

 dogma wrote:
So...many...references...

They even got Thomas-Alexandre Dumas with the line about the short, blind, mulatto, French man.

I would like to play as a one-eyed mulatto French dwarf, actually.

And he shall be skilled in explosives

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
I know Ouze mentioned that Booker was appalingly racist...

Where was this again? Finished the game but never found him to be appallingly racist

Spoiler:

you know, until the end when "he" turns out to also be "him"

From Ouze's post here

 Ouze wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Are you talking about Elizabeth? She's a main character.

Well, from being 3 hours or so in, it appears the main character is actually appaling racism.

But to answer your subsequent question, no - you do not need to play the prior games to play this one, there is no link that I am aware of between their stories. The gameplay mechanics are very similar, though, so if you wind up hating this, you may profitably skip going back to Bioshock as well.

Unless I'm misreading appaling racism.

1.) Sorry for the giant quotebox but it seems necessary.

2.) I wasn't going to say anything but yes, you were misreading what i was saying. What I meant - and you can blame me on being imprecise if you'd like - is that appalling racism is so overwhelming it essentially became the main character of the story. To use a somewhat dated analogy, it was akin to saying "While Elizabeth Berkely was in Showgirls, the real star was boobs".

Later I became aware, accidentally, of.... later developments in the game plot that now gave my original statement an accurate, if alternate, meaning, so I saw no reason to say anything anymore.

3.) Which brings me to a different thought. Earlier someone (maybe Manchu) said the game pulled no punches when it came to race relations. I have to say that as the game's gone on (and I haven't beaten it set, since double XP weekend in MWO) I find that to be less so, by the pure and utter absence of the N word. I understand that using the word would have immediately touched off a media thing that would have overshadowing everything else about the game but if they were really being honest - how do you not use it?

4.) Did you guys know Jennifer Hale voiced Rosalind Lutece? I can't hear her barely at all.

This might be me grasping at straws, but I think the fact that the choices don't have any apparent influence was deliberate. Near the end of the game, multiple characters make the statement that nothing ever changes, that it's always the same outcome. It could be that the developers were trying to show off this inevitability by making your choices irrelevant.

I thought the story was alright, I might have been more blown away if not for…



And as such the ending wasn't as emotional/stunning for me.

I thought it was more linear than bioshock 1 and I don't see very much replayability especially since the weapon upgrade method was changed significantly.

I liked having multiple weapons in the first bioshock (along with multiple ammo types) since it made each fight feel like a puzzle. you had to match the right set of weapons and ammo and plasmids to the individual fight. I also liked how weapon upgrades caused cosmetic changes in the original.
Bioshock 1 rewarded exploration with a cool new gun upgrade, whereas in infinite you get a little sliver of health/shields/mana... big whoop.

In infinite the upgrades for weapons feel like an afterthought (in my opinion). No cosmetic changes upon upgrading and you might as well only upgrade two weapons (shotgun and carbine ftw) since you can only carry two. The guns handle awesomely though, easily the most fluid gunplay of the series.

The tonics are ok, I just wish that more of them had unique secondary uses. I think the first four or so you acquire all have a "mine/trap" secondary which feels like wasted potential to me. Also the fire and electric ones have less usefulness since the environment is lacking in both puddles and pools of oil (unlike the first where you could actively use the environment to your advantage).

The new “gear” is interesting but I felt that a number of the pieces weren’t really viable/didn’t offer much.

I thought the look of the city was beautiful and really swept me up in the narrative until

Then for me at least the city lost a lot its charm which left on all the zeppelins along with its people. Then it becomes a linear trip through dark and broken streets (which would be a great time for it to get scary but they don’t even try) with a series fights that I began to find tiresome.



I liked Elizabeth as a character, she was fun and useful and charming however,

However I thought having a few other secondary characters for both the player and Elizabeth to play off against would have been great.

All in all I liked it, but was disapointed that I didn't love it.

 Mr Nobody wrote:
This might be me grasping at straws, but I think the fact that the choices don't have any apparent influence was deliberate. Near the end of the game, multiple characters make the statement that nothing ever changes, that it's always the same outcome. It could be that the developers were trying to show off this inevitability by making your choices irrelevant.

Yeah, that's what I understood as well.

I still don't like it; it comes across as them trying to justify their laziness.

It would have been nice to see more of that nightmare realm with those masked people...seriously, what was with that?


I'm beginning to think Dead Space 3 has more replay value than BS:I. In DS3 you have different crafting options and game modes; in BS:I you have limited weapon options and only 1 different type of game mode, that's probably not that interesting anyway.
And that's friggen scary.

 Ouze wrote:
Which brings me to a different thought. Earlier someone (maybe Manchu) said the game pulled no punches when it came to race relations. I have to say that as the game's gone on (and I haven't beaten it set, since double XP weekend in MWO) I find that to be less so, by the pure and utter absence of the N word.

I don't know whether that word was acceptable in polite society, which is what one sees in the beginning of the game. But anyway the game totally abandons its concern for real, interesting problems in favor of allegedly philosophical ones. That worked in the first BioShock, where you received a pretty astounding critique of the way you as a player engage video game stories. But the big reveal in Infinite is irrelevant vis-a-vis gameplay and, even less forgivably, vis-a-vis the game's setting. For example:

As I was browsing Facebook, one of my friends posted a very intersting theory about Infinite.


Thoughts? I think it's another cool tie in between Bioshock 1 and Infinite.

That's exactly what happened... Like Manchu said, you kind of hope for this massive battle...

 Manchu wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Which brings me to a different thought. Earlier someone (maybe Manchu) said the game pulled no punches when it came to race relations. I have to say that as the game's gone on (and I haven't beaten it set, since double XP weekend in MWO) I find that to be less so, by the pure and utter absence of the N word.

I don't know whether that word was acceptable in polite society, which is what one sees in the beginning of the game. But anyway the game totally abandons its concern for real, interesting problems in favor of allegedly philosophical ones. That worked in the first BioShock, where you received a pretty astounding critique of the way you as a player engage video game stories. But the big reveal in Infinite is irrelevant vis-a-vis gameplay and, even less forgivably, vis-a-vis the game's setting. For example:

Spoiler:

How pathetic and anti-climactic was the game's treatment of Songbird? As I played, I kept thinking, how am I going to fight that thing? Who is it? What's its story? I thought there was going to be some epic confrontation with it. I thought very early on that Songbird might be a Handy-Man-ified Lady Comstock, a la some homage to Evangelion. Then I figured it might be another "version" of Elizabeth herself, at least once I had the choice between her broaches. Finally, I figured it might be DeWitt.

Yeah, what is the songbird? The most you know of it were some obscure blueprints in the tower.

You don't even get to fight him for real, which is lame.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Which brings me to a different thought. Earlier someone (maybe Manchu) said the game pulled no punches when it came to race relations. I have to say that as the game's gone on (and I haven't beaten it set, since double XP weekend in MWO) I find that to be less so, by the pure and utter absence of the N word.

I don't know whether that word was acceptable in polite society, which is what one sees in the beginning of the game. But anyway the game totally abandons its concern for real, interesting problems in favor of allegedly philosophical ones. That worked in the first BioShock, where you received a pretty astounding critique of the way you as a player engage video game stories. But the big reveal in Infinite is irrelevant vis-a-vis gameplay and, even less forgivably, vis-a-vis the game's setting. For example:

Spoiler:

How pathetic and anti-climactic was the game's treatment of Songbird? As I played, I kept thinking, how am I going to fight that thing? Who is it? What's its story? I thought there was going to be some epic confrontation with it. I thought very early on that Songbird might be a Handy-Man-ified Lady Comstock, a la some homage to Evangelion. Then I figured it might be another "version" of Elizabeth herself, at least once I had the choice between her broaches. Finally, I figured it might be DeWitt.

Yeah, what is the songbird? The most you know of it were some obscure blueprints in the tower.

You don't even get to fight him for real, which is lame. Yeah, this is a 96/100 game all right

If I remember a voxphone I picked up...

Yeah, we know where the handymen are from, but what about the song bird? Why is he so protective? There has to be some sort of interesting and tragic story behind him. He can't just be some random bloke they plucked off a the streets.

At the moment, yes he is just some random bloke...

It'd be interesting if it turned out to be another version of Booker...

 Alfndrate wrote:
At the moment, yes he is just some random bloke...

It'd be interesting if it turned out to be another version of Booker...

Yes, it would be.

Both the songbird and Booker are protecting Elizabeth after all,

And now for something completely different.




Better write that letter, Gabe

Also, why do you keep coming back to life? Booker does not have that dimension warping ability.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Also, why do you keep coming back to life? Booker does not have that dimension warping ability.

>_>


I haven't died yet... So idk lol

Let's be careful about the spoilerific posts here fellas!

As to Songbird, it is clear from its design that it is in principal a Handy Man. It has the same shoulder cords as the Handy Men.

So, Just got the game and powered through it in one day. BLEW MY MIND. One of the best games ive played for story and graphics since... since... Bioshock unsurprisingly. It's absolutely stunning, Anyone who is having doubts should stop having them and get the game.

I was kind of disappointed with:



All in all a good game, Quite abit to do, I personally loved it. Especially Elizabeth and Everything with the Luteces (sp?).

Elizabeth is really one of the most likable characters I've seen in a long time. Which is made even better by the fact that you don't have to babysit her. AND she gives me money! Whats not to love?

http://www.themarysue.com/bioshock-infinite-review/

I only read thorugh part of this review because I didn't want to go through spoilers. But it might add a new perspective to the discussion, from what I did read.

That was a good article, and actually does a good job at sort of leveling my views on the game in regards to racism compared to the comments that I saw days after it's released from several friends. Like the physically angry commends they made about how Booker was a savior for the black man, etc... I was like... "Are we playing the same game?"

 Alfndrate wrote:
Like the physically angry commends they made about how Booker was a savior for the black man, etc... I was like... "Are we playing the same game?"

They were mad because they thought Booker was being a savior for the Black man? Unless I'm reading that wrong they played the game very wrong. Even:

Some of the comments in this post here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/516519.page#5453919

I'm certain they hadn't played more than 30 minutes...

EDIT: Woops, completely misunderstood that post there.

I dont think i'll be getting the game, the gameplay looks clunky and apparently they dont even bother with puzzles, just more charnel house slaughter like the first game. So i watched the ending and didn't feel it was something i needed to experience first hand, it was B-movie Nonsense. Also manchu put into words a sentiment i had, the ending is very detached from the game and gameplay itself.

You know, people who have to have a physics puzzle in a game in order to enjoy it boggle my mind just as much as the people who have to kill someone in a game to enjoy it.

Lol, better not admit to loving the puzzles in God of War series then. I like a change of pace, i dont like being constantly in combat mode.

 Perkustin wrote:
Lol, better not admit to loving the puzzles in God of War series then. I like a change of pace, i dont like being constantly in combat mode.

Bioshock: Infinite is not "constantly in combat mode" either.

You can have a break from combat without having a lame-ass physics or block pushing puzzle.

It's not the same, i think you're confusing in-game exposition for a change of pace. Its not gameplay, it's just pointing the gun down and walking a bit slower while a cutscene plays. EDIT, to be truly great, Linear story-based games need puzzles or at least a distinct non-combat mechanic for a change of pace. It's not an open world game where you can do loads of other non-combat stuff while still using a lot of the mechanics.

The dialogue system in Mass Effect is a leftfield example, a non-combat game mechanic that abates the monotony of combat.