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Made in ca
Sergeant




Canada

I just want to jump in to note that you shouldn't conflate minimum wage earners with the poor. So while it's true that the poor probably aren't spending much of their money on GW, the typical minimum wage earner is their core demographic, at least according to Canadian data. I can't imagine the rest of the anglosphere is much different.

As for the actual topic, I'll echo what others have said. There are so many other great games out these days with production values easily matching GW's, I don't understand why so many people don't bother exploring other games. If you don't know what else is out there take fifteen minutes to wander through TMP's gallery forums and you will be amazed.

Specs
 
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Brian Smaller wrote:
The situation in New Zealand is even worse I think. For example, the Bretonnian kit for the Leon Leoncouer resin model is NZ$95.00 ($US78.00). That is just insane pricing.

I have brought exactly one new boxed item in the last ten years from GW. All the rest I get off the internet on auction sites.
Don't worry about the Kiwis, as long as they have their sheep they'll be fine


them's fighting words. Of course, this was early 2000-2002 so things must have changed in the decade since. GW prices in Australia are still unjustifiably daft... but someone must be buying them, right?

The fourx was a joke, of course. Little Creatures all the way!

Mechanicus
Ravenwing
Deathwing

Check out my Mechanicus Project here... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/570849.page 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Squatting with the squigs

If your renting unemployment benefits barely pay 1 rooms rent, I have no ideas what high unemployment benefits have to do with toy soldiers prices.
The only way someone on unemployment benefits has a good life is if they are selling drugs.

I think GW is pretty much dead in aus, last time i checked a 2000 point ork army in aus it was over $3000 and that was years ago. People are gravitating to other games. The models are not that great, half of em are marines with added wingdings. Other companies models bog all over GWs' in my opinion.

My new blog: http://kardoorkapers.blogspot.com.au/

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Made in au
Norn Queen






Bullockist wrote:
I think GW is pretty much dead in aus


It's really not. GW still gets the lions share of gamers even here. It's slipping, but not too quickly.
   
Made in jp
Fixture of Dakka





Japan

Can Australians buy from (USA) Ebay in Australlia? Maybe second hand is the way to go.

Squidbot;
"That sound? That's the sound of me drinking all my paint and stabbing myself in the eyes with my brushes. "
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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Squatting with the squigs

We can buy from the US but something weird happened to US postage costs about 6-12 months ago, they went up by a noticable amount (maybe ebay policy, maybe US post cost rises i don't know). I tend to buy from the UK as it is cheaper and faster. (not GW minis)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/03 04:00:11


My new blog: http://kardoorkapers.blogspot.com.au/

Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."

Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"

Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST" 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






Depends wehre and how much you're spending, really. If you're buying one or two boxes infantry, the savings is either not enough to cover the shipping or not worth the wait. If you're buying, say, a whole army, the saving really ramp up.

I'll generally not bother unless the savings exceed $50-$60 after shipping. If I'm just after a box of Termagants or something, I bite the bullet and pay Australian retail, but give the sale to my FLGS, even if it means waiting a week for them to get it in. My last two purchases were exactly this - a Carnifex and a Tyrannofex, both of which, separately (I bought them months apart), wouldn't have saved enough after shipping for me to care. So my FLGS got the money.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/04/03 04:09:18


 
   
Made in au
Three Color Minimum






Bullockist wrote:
We can buy from the US but something weird happened to US postage costs about 6-12 months ago, they went up by a noticable amount (maybe ebay policy, maybe US post cost rises i don't know). I tend to buy from the UK as it is cheaper and faster. (not GW minis)


The postal hike was US Postal cost rising.

I buy all my models second hand - I mainly buy 40K as I like the background but I can tell you I havent bought at a GW for over 10 years.

The postal cost may have increased on purchases from the US but it is still cheaper than buying locally for GW products. although we in Australia are used to being shafted on prices for most things GW's pricing is exceptionally ridiculous!

My most recent purchase was a tactical squad from the US base coated for $11.50 AUD and around $8.00 postage, compare that to $62 for a tactical squad in a GW AUS store.

Swan-of-War wrote:
And Jesus said unto the Pharoahs, "Thine army is cheese!" and flipped the table into the sea. And this was good.
Judges 4:21
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




While I feel for Australian gamers I can't help but wonder if the price you pay extra for mini's is about the same % of difference as the prices you pay for most other things. You live on an isolated island continent literally on the other side of the world from GW's production facilities. Why wouldn't it be more expensive? Also, why should GW protect stores that run online discounters (of which there's maybe 100 on the net and I'm being nice on that) as opposed to the thousands of stockists worldwide that sell GW product without an online presence.

While it sucks, all GW is doing is protecting it's local stockists from unfair competition from people who don't have anywhere near the cost of doing business that stockists in Australia has. On top of that, I'm fairly certain GW doesn't particularly want to sit around waiting for the next online discounter ponzi scheme to collapse (Ala Maelstrom games) leaving several thousand customers in the lurch with money paid and no product to ever be seen.

A few dozen online retailers or thousands of independent stockists....which is more important? I think the answer is kinda obvious if you run a business.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Shipping costs don't more than double the cost of things Orktavius. And please stop drinking the Kool-Aid and acting like GW are protecting anyone other than themselves. And we don't have 'thousands' of independent stockists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/03 05:44:57


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Made in jp
Fixture of Dakka





Japan

Ah, Orktavius, America is also a big "island" and GW product has to come all the way from the UK, i wonder what the prices in Hawai or Guam are.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Orktavius wrote:
While I feel for Australian gamers I can't help but wonder if the price you pay extra for mini's is about the same % of difference as the prices you pay for most other things. You live on an isolated island continent literally on the other side of the world from GW's production facilities. Why wouldn't it be more expensive? Also, why should GW protect stores that run online discounters (of which there's maybe 100 on the net and I'm being nice on that) as opposed to the thousands of stockists worldwide that sell GW product without an online presence.

While it sucks, all GW is doing is protecting it's local stockists from unfair competition from people who don't have anywhere near the cost of doing business that stockists in Australia has. On top of that, I'm fairly certain GW doesn't particularly want to sit around waiting for the next online discounter ponzi scheme to collapse (Ala Maelstrom games) leaving several thousand customers in the lurch with money paid and no product to ever be seen.

A few dozen online retailers or thousands of independent stockists....which is more important? I think the answer is kinda obvious if you run a business.


No. You honestly didn't post this.

Sophism is what that's called.



At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. 
   
Made in au
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

Orktavius wrote:
While it sucks, all GW is doing is protecting it's local stockists from unfair competition from people who don't have anywhere near the cost of doing business that stockists in Australia has.


Ignoring the rest of what you said for a minute, I'm pretty sure that is not unfair competition but rather capitalism. If I can get the same product from somewhere else for less it is on GW to give me a reason to buy from them, I'm not obligated to buy direct in any way nor should they be allowed to simply shut down my other options.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




Sydney, Australia

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:The big problem remains that finding opponents or regular games nights for non-GW games is a pain; I have Dropzone Commander and Infinity, but am limited to maybe one or two games per month, and this in London, the greatest wargaming city in the world. I can play 40k with different opponents seven days a week.

Prices in Australia are insane, so is their minimum wage though, like A$20 a month? The economy has had non-stop growth for the past decade, so people aren't exactly starving.

Although its clear that GWs policies are self-defeating. This is in large part due to the fact it's now being run as a corporation for shareholders, and the greedy finance side wants to boost stock as much as possible before retiring with a golden parachute.




This, and my mates already have 40k sets. Being they've invested the amount they have into it, they don't want to abandon it, even when a new edition is released ultimately forcing people to continue upgrading and spending more to stay viable. Combined with the new players who come into the game wanting to play, and are willing to spend the amount of money to get into it. For every experienced player leaving when enough is enough, I imagine 2 more replace them. Thus the cycle continues.

By GW doing this, they've hurt themselves in the long run. Combined with upcoming cheaper hobbies worldwide for miniatures, I imagine in the next decade there will need to be a big restructure of GW - Customer service is already on the decline because of the restructure removing staff, and this is the first step towards bad decisions for the life of a business. I don't want this to happen, but GW need to start getting competitive because they're reaching the end of legally controlling the market, and now they must begin to accept competition.


Orktavius wrote:
While I feel for Australian gamers I can't help but wonder if the price you pay extra for mini's is about the same % of difference as the prices you pay for most other things. You live on an isolated island continent literally on the other side of the world from GW's production facilities. Why wouldn't it be more expensive? Also, why should GW protect stores that run online discounters (of which there's maybe 100 on the net and I'm being nice on that) as opposed to the thousands of stockists worldwide that sell GW product without an online presence.

While it sucks, all GW is doing is protecting it's local stockists from unfair competition from people who don't have anywhere near the cost of doing business that stockists in Australia has. On top of that, I'm fairly certain GW doesn't particularly want to sit around waiting for the next online discounter ponzi scheme to collapse (Ala Maelstrom games) leaving several thousand customers in the lurch with money paid and no product to ever be seen.

A few dozen online retailers or thousands of independent stockists....which is more important? I think the answer is kinda obvious if you run a business.


We do pay more on the majority of things. But we're talking about a model you pay $15, we pay $50. Even including taxes, shipping and overheads, that is still gouging us beyond fairness. Especially when you consider how well our dollar is going compared to the US and UK pound (was in the latter).

If GW recognise the absurd cost of this hobby and lower the prices to what US and Canada pay, which you guys consider to be too much. We would be amazed, they would attract infinitely more Aussie players and sales in store and online.

It's concerning that they're just attempting to push up their stock worth, when in a few more years it will end up declining it from loss of independent online sales. Sure you can boycott, but US and Canada are now about to experience what Australians do, buy it from GW, or don't buy it. Not nice is it. And whilst you and other established players might not be concerned because you're already setup in the hobby. It is one of the first obstacles preventing new players from starting.

I mean, I'm only relatively new to the hobby, but experienced in the world. And if I'm looking at this as a hobby for myself, or my kids, and I can practically taste the greed of GW before I've even started. What does that say about the business as a whole and the hobby? Ultimately, GW are saying you've got to be practically rich, or in surplus of about AU$1000 to field a 2,000 point army and obtain GW supplies to paint it. The latter not being necessary, but you get my meaning.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/03 07:59:58


   
Made in au
Trustworthy Shas'vre






For reference: If a kid was to walk in to his local GW store in Australia next week and decide that he wanted to play Tau, this is the minimum that he would need:
1 40k Rulebook ($124)
1 Tau Codex ($83)
1 Tau Battleforce ($180)
1 Hobby Starter Set ($96)
1 Dice Block ($13)
= $496, for an absolute minimum sized force. Plus templates, tape measures, spraypaint....
Yeah the rulebook can be found online, but little timmy does not know about online and if he did everything else would be at a discount anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/03 08:50:42


 
   
Made in au
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

Trasvi wrote:
For reference: If a kid was to walk in to his local GW store in Australia next week and decide that he wanted to play Tau, this is the minimum that he would need:
1 40k Rulebook ($124)
1 Tau Codex ($83)
1 Tau Battleforce ($180)
1 Hobby Starter Set ($96)
1 Dice Block ($13)
= $496, for an absolute minimum sized force. Plus templates, tape measures, spraypaint....
Yeah the rulebook can be found online, but little timmy does not know about online and if he did everything else would be at a discount anyway.


Spray paints of course being $26, templates $22 and tape measures $18 (if you're looking at the skull ones which lets face it, will be the ones pushes towards little timmy).

No sane parent is going to pay $550 for their kid to start a hobby they have no idea if he will enjoy, especially if they are smart enough to ask if that all he will need for a game and get told "a small game".

GW seemed to rely on bringing in new blood to replace the leaving vets for a while but now their prices are simply too high for Timmy to remain their target demographic.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in jp
Battleship Captain






The Land of the Rising Sun

Trasvi wrote:

1 40k Rulebook ($124)
1 Tau Codex ($83)

These are the only things you need if you want to play 40K. Everything else can be substituted by cheaper options. Ofc it will involve unplugging the HHHobby glasses, a mean feat, and educate everybody that GW products and rules are part of the miniature gaming scene not the other way around.

M.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/03 09:31:41


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Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Trasvi wrote:
For reference: If a kid was to walk in to his local GW store in Australia next week and decide that he wanted to play Tau, this is the minimum that he would need:
1 40k Rulebook ($124)
1 Tau Codex ($83)


There's other means to get those. Not allowed at tournamens though.

1 Tau Battleforce ($180)
1 Hobby Starter Set ($96)
1 Dice Block ($13)
= $496, for an absolute minimum sized force. Plus templates, tape measures, spraypaint....


ebay for the most part, the "Hobby Starter Set" is a fool's trap anyway, you get all the stuff for MUCH less and a WAY higher quality than GW. My Da Vinci brushes are endlessly superior to the crap GW sells.

Just for comparison: I bought an entire Goblin army second hand which included 250 Goblins, 6 Fanatics, 8 character models, 11 Squigs and 5 Wolf Riders for 90€ aka 115$. "Duh, those are exceptions". So? They happen. It just takes time. I then scratch-built 3 Goblin Wolf Chariots, 2 Doom Divers, 2 Stone Lobbaz and 2 Spear Chukkaz for a total additional cost of...about 8-10€ aka 11$. With the required paints, that's about 150$ for a very playable 2500 points list.

You can lower the entry point pretty damn low with blood, sweat and effort.

   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

Orktavius wrote:
While I feel for Australian gamers I can't help but wonder if the price you pay extra for mini's is about the same % of difference as the prices you pay for most other things. You live on an isolated island continent literally on the other side of the world from GW's production facilities. Why wouldn't it be more expensive? Also, why should GW protect stores that run online discounters (of which there's maybe 100 on the net and I'm being nice on that) as opposed to the thousands of stockists worldwide that sell GW product without an online presence.


I attempted to answer this about a month ago in the Community Responsibility thread... Using a Space Marine Tactical Squad as my basis, I compared the pricing of the models between GBP, USD, and AUD. My "research" is as follows:

A Space Marine Tactical Squad
GBP - 23.00
USD - 37.25
AUD - 62.00
CAD - 44.75

The above dollar amounts are what a 10 man Tactical Squad costs in the UK, USA, and Australia. For an additional measure, since you're from the land up north, I've added Canada as well.

Assuming that at the current exchange rate (which is decently stable and doesn't fluctuate [it]too[/i] much), a Tactical Squad should be roughly equal to 23 GBP.
GBP - 23.00
USD - 35.07 (roughly 35 dollars)
AUD - 34.10 (roughly 34 dollars)
CAD - 35.22 (roughly 35 dollars)

So just looking at those prices alone, we can see there is some level of price disparity between what UK people pay, and what the rest of us pay. While I think that 37.25 is too high for a tactical squad, I'll grant them the right to consider that fairly priced. But to almost DOUBLE the price in exchange rate is insane and unfair to Australians... Even looking at Canada the price is slightly staggering. there's about a 20% price difference between what it should roughly cost, and what it does cost. There is no reason that the same tactical squad that is worth 23.00 GBP is worth 62 AUD especially when taking into account exchange rates.

Now your question was in relation to price disparity between other products. Well, considering that I've been down this road before... One of the things that was thrown out was an Apple iPod as something that is priced differently in Australia. The Australian iPod Touch black 32gb is 329.00 AUD... the same iPod is 299.00 Not that much of a difference anymore, yet Australians are paying almost double for 10 plastic space mans. This disparity used to be more in previous generations, but it's not now. Even still, that's only a 10% markup. Another company that's in some hot water right now is Adobe. Adobe Creative Suite 6 Design & Web Edition is currently going for 3,175 AUD which includes a goods and services tax. Right now at this moment, I could book a flight from Brisbane, Australia to San Fransisco, Ca, USA for 1,318 (Adjusted for AUD), land in San Fransisco, buy a copy of the same software for 1,812, and then return home to Brisbane. I would end up spending 3130 dollars on the trip, get to see America, and walk away with my brand new software... Something about that is wrong, so wrong in fact that Adobe is coming under fire for their higher prices.

So while there is some price disparity amongst several countries, and GW isn't alone in their strange pricing of Australian goods, they are the ones we're focused on because we're a wargaming forum.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/03 12:27:41


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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




I find apple a bad comparison, they rip EVERYONE off, that being said on further thought GW is going for premium pricing like they are so maybe it's not that far off of a comparison.

That being said I find your research interesting Alfndrate but what about things like tariff's and other taxes the government charges on goods coming into the country. I know for instance that despite all the "free trade agreements" Canada has a 15% tax is still slapped down on every box of toy soldiers that comes into the country. That your minimum wage is almost double mine is surely a factor as well but it's harder to directly relate that to price so I'm more curious about taxes and tariffs charged on shipments would be.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Orktavius wrote:
I find apple a bad comparison, they rip EVERYONE off, that being said on further thought GW is going for premium pricing like they are so maybe it's not that far off of a comparison.

That being said I find your research interesting Alfndrate but what about things like tariff's and other taxes the government charges on goods coming into the country. I know for instance that despite all the "free trade agreements" Canada has a 15% tax is still slapped down on every box of toy soldiers that comes into the country. That your minimum wage is almost double mine is surely a factor as well but it's harder to directly relate that to price so I'm more curious about taxes and tariffs charged on shipments would be.


Hang on, I may have misunderstood this, but you appear to be claiming that Apple rip everyone off in response to a post that demonstrates their pricing disparity is nowhere near as bad as GW, who are you defending?

Please let go of minimum wage as some sort of justification as well, it is meaningless without taking cost of living into account, and, as has been explained already in this thread, cost of living in Oz is substantially higher than the US.

Sure, there may be other taxes and expenses getting the product on shelf, but I'm confident that the price disparity is in no way proportional to these.

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Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

Orktavius wrote:
I find apple a bad comparison, they rip EVERYONE off, that being said on further thought GW is going for premium pricing like they are so maybe it's not that far off of a comparison.


But If you look at the three products I listed... Apple had the closest price between American and Australian pricing... And 300 dollars isn't that bad of a price for a piece of technology that is basically a small computer in your hand... My desktop PC and my cell phone are the only two pieces of tech I own that were more than 300 dollars (the phone was technically 200, but that was with a 2 year contract).

That being said I find your research interesting Alfndrate but what about things like tariff's and other taxes the government charges on goods coming into the country. I know for instance that despite all the "free trade agreements" Canada has a 15% tax is still slapped down on every box of toy soldiers that comes into the country. That your minimum wage is almost double mine is surely a factor as well but it's harder to directly relate that to price so I'm more curious about taxes and tariffs charged on shipments would be.


I could comment on taxes and tariffs better if I knew them. Looking at the Adobe example, there exists a thing in Australia called a Goods and Services Tax. Just a cursory googling of the term it appears to be a generic "sales tax" and similar to the UK's VAT (Value-Added Tax). But even still that's at most, 10%. But even still, taxes and Tariffs shouldn't push the price of a tactical space marine box to almost double what it's worth.

And as been said, minimum wage is not a good factor to determine disposable income. And I'm American, my country's minimum wage is lower than Canada's minimum wage . I make what the Australian minimum wage is at my job, and with the debt I have from going to college... I can't live on the money I make, and I make practically double the US minimum wage.

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Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics 
   
Made in au
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





Brisbane, Australia

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The solution is for Australian players to stop buying any GW products. A year off would do it. The results would be clearly visible in GW's accounts. As long as you keep buying the stuff at sky high prices, GW will sell it at sky high prices.


The hilarious part, if us Aussies stopped buying - GW would notice a significant drop in the retail sale of their goods in North America

I've not bought a SINGLE product from GW in Australia since 1999. Not when the savings are up to or in some cases exceeding 55% off AUS RRP when buying from the USA.

In an interesting twist, the US appears to be catching up - Tau Riptide priced at $85 US RRP and $90 AUD RRP.

In short "Hey guys, we are having a hard time stopping those convicts from buying in the US, lets raise the US prices as well!". Yep, i'm still wondering if species of endangered monkeys are actually due to GW's recruitment methods.

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Australia

 Morachi wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
The solution is for Australian players to stop buying any GW products. A year off would do it. The results would be clearly visible in GW's accounts. As long as you keep buying the stuff at sky high prices, GW will sell it at sky high prices.


The hilarious part, if us Aussies stopped buying - GW would notice a significant drop in the retail sale of their goods in North America

I've not bought a SINGLE product from GW in Australia since 1999. Not when the savings are up to or in some cases exceeding 55% off AUS RRP when buying from the USA.

In an interesting twist, the US appears to be catching up - Tau Riptide priced at $85 US RRP and $90 AUD RRP.


In short "Hey guys, we are having a hard time stopping those convicts from buying in the US, lets raise the US prices as well!". Yep, i'm still wondering if species of endangered monkeys are actually due to GW's recruitment methods.


Ever since the start of the year GW seem to have been trying to fix the pricing problem by bringing the US prices up to match ours. That plastic chaos warrior from Feb, $25 in both regions. For us thats a small mark up, for the US that's a big step up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/03 14:13:46


 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Gee, thanks Australia/New Zealand for our rising prices!

   
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj






In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg

 Kanluwen wrote:
Gee, thanks Australia/New Zealand for our rising prices!



There is a kernel of truth there. Bottom line is that people have continued to/are continuing to pay the prices that GW sets. What can that tell them? That they can raise prices elsewhere and people will continue to buy from them.

Fact is, Australasia has been something of a guinea pig for the rest of the world in that it gives GW some good data on just how elastic their prices can be.

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Made in au
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Brisbane, Australia

Blame GW UK, they started it... something about sharing is caring, but it wasn't the kind of care i'd like them to share.

Just happy I have my display army, only keeping the one now and ditching the rest, I figure selling them to someone else gives them some enjoyment and denies additional new sales by GW.

I've only bought via trade sites for a while now, and the people there often have decent pricing, understanding (like the rest of us) that GW have priced themselves out of the market for all but a handful of folks who have more money than sense.

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Been Around the Block




Sydney, Australia

LOL, that's not our fault!

It's GW, "Oh less people are buying our product, so let's raise the prices to make up for that loss, on the people still buying" logic - if it could even be called logic. I get the feeling GW are more than happy to keep it in country UK/Europe and the rest of the world must pay for the privilege to own and play.

It really wouldn't surprise me if that is their long-term plan. Juice Australia, USA, Canada and other countries out of the market, then withdraw in the face of cheaper competitors whilst retaining stores and the partial hobby majority in Europe. A long and drawn out strategical withdrawal to juice up stock, CEO quits with a beautiful severance package for all his hardwork, GW begins toilet flushing stores citing loss of revenue, stock falls, but CEO doesn't care, he is gone with his golden handshake leaving the consumers, workers and shareholders up duff creek with just functional and selling stores in Europe. The ultimate ponzi scheme from within, artificial revenue.

   
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Australia

 filbert wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Gee, thanks Australia/New Zealand for our rising prices!



There is a kernel of truth there. Bottom line is that people have continued to/are continuing to pay the prices that GW sets. What can that tell them? That they can raise prices elsewhere and people will continue to buy from them.

Fact is, Australasia has been something of a guinea pig for the rest of the world in that it gives GW some good data on just how elastic their prices can be.


I seriously doubt it is anything as elaborate as that, I think we were just getting the short end of the stick but now GW are running out of stick so now everyone else does too.

Sales down here have been steadily dropping by about 10% for several years now, not even GW are dumb enough to look at that and go 'yea, people are still paying those prices, lets implement this system everywhere'.
All the crap they have done since the Hobbit release feels much more like a last ditch effort to keep the company's stock up for a few more years before it crashes than it does some master plan to make people pay more.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in au
Trustworthy Shas'vre






Pretty damn sure I put in the post that "yes, you can get it off ebay but timmy doesn't know that". Anyone in Australia who is savvy enough to know where to get discount stuff, is buying from overseas, and so their part in this discussion is pretty pointless.

@ "You only need the rules to play". Whilst that's a nice sentiment, it is again rather pointless. Yes, we can play with lego or green army men or cardboard cutouts. So what? People don't actually do that, they don't want to do that. While we're at it, you could download the rules or play Tomorrow's War.
Secondly... there aren't that many cheap alternatives in wargaming miniatures, especially for humanoid aliens. There are a few plastic manufacturers of human miniatures to substitute for IG or marines, but little in the way of aliens and even less in the way of vehicles. If we're going to say we could play with those, we may as well also play Tau using Space Marine rules for cheaper.

@ Other ways to get the rules: while we're talking about not paying for things, we could also steal someone else's army....

@Hobby starter set. It is possible to get other supplies, but other brand paints (Vallejo, P3) aren't actually much cheaper around here; GW brushes are pretty good quality for the price; and clippers, glue etc because you need them and that is what will get sold as 'essential' to starting the army. You could maybe save $30 if you went to a hardware store for the other stuff, but to get 10 starter colours its going to be $50 or so no matter what you do.


In short: yes, you can cut costs in a myriad of ways if you want. I haven't bough a full-priced GW set in over five years. That wasn't the point of my post. It was simply to provide a reference; what stuff costs in Australia.



Now, I can get on with the second part of my post.
Prices in Australia are.... prices in Australia. They are just as acceptable, or unacceptable, as they've always been. It is fairly established theory that prices for anything and everything are related to the overall amount of money in the system, so (in general) prices for stuff in Australia are higher than in the UK, US, Thailand, wherever. Minimum wage doesn't really have anything to do with it, except as a comparison point to show how much more Australians earn - very very few people are buying niche luxury toys like GW minis on minimum wage.

The thing here is that Australians are acclimatised to paying X amount for Y product. The price war determined a number of years ago, and people have been paying it. They're ok with paying it. It doesn't actually matter what the price is overseas or in the next town over: the price is the price, and if you thought you were getting value for money yesterday and nothing changes in your local area, then you are still getting value for money tomorrow no matter what happens to the price in the next state.

We see this with products which aren't easily transferable to other areas. Labour; entertainment and dining out; quickly perishable goods; rental prices. You can't very well rent a house a thousand miles away from your work just because it is cheaper. It doesn't matter to us what people in London pay for coffee if we live in Sydney.

However, we then add in the internet and globalization. Suddenly, many goods are transferable between places. How do we resolve this? If I was happy to pay $10 for an item today, and I'm in exactly the same situation tomorrow, why shouldn't I be happy to pay $10 for it? Yet I can get it cheaper... consumer surplus! Yay! Great for the consumer, but not for the business selling in Australia. See, they've been making presumably similar margins to their overseas competition: they pay $500 rent, $200 in wages and bring in $1000 revenue for $300 profit. But in order to compete with the people selling online, you have to compete with them on price but you are unable to compete with them on your non-transferable expenses (revenue, wages). You slash prices in half to match your competition, but don't bring in significantly more customers because now you're only competitive, not cheap. So you go broke. Damn.

This doesn't happen with all products. Restaurants aren't anywhere near as affected by internet retailers as clothing stores are, because restaurants sell non-transferable products. As above, some things you just can't sell over the internet; hot food, labour, property. The best things to sell over the internet are small; easily posted, light, non-perishable, non-regional. It needs to be mass-produced so you know exactly what you are getting It needs to arrive quickly (most people won't wait 6 months in order to save $5) but at the same time it can't be for urgent purchases you need today. It needs to be for items that are relatively pricey, and where the savings including shipping are a considerable percentage of that: you won't buy a pack of post-its overseas even if you save 75%, and you won't buy a TV overseas if you only save $10 after shipping. Items that fit this category include books, clothes, electronics, cosmetics... and Warhammer. They're fairly well (badly) placed to be hurt by regional pricing.
So, in order to not suffer, GW has only a few real options:
1) To keep their products the same price, and make their products unattainable outside of their intended regions
2) To considerably increase costs in Australia, so that those people unwilling or without knowledge to purchase on the internet have no choice but to pay the high price (or quit)
3) Substantially lower their prices in Australia and hope they can gain enough new customers with the lowered prices to offset the massive loss in revenue.
4) Pull out of Australia retail entirely.

#3 isn't really viable for them. They're part of a niche market, competing against lego and videogames and being 'cool'. For a 30% drop in prices, they would need to sell more than *double* the amount they currently do to maintain the same margin, which is quite unlikely especially given evidence of relatively few people leaving as price increases.
So they went with #1 and #2. Smart choices? Maybe not. But they don't really have many to choose from.


It is VERY important to note that GW isn't the only company doing this. Many companies have regional websites which actively prevent you from ordering to Australia if you use Australian payment systems or addresses. I remember a sports clothes company (Adidas?) was selling jerseys for the New Zealand rugby team for twice the price in New Zealand as they did in America, and they were quite unapologetic about it. Some companies (Apple) have enough turnover that they can effectively sell in Australia for prices that are very competitive with overseas prices - especially when companies like HP go the GW route of price hikes and embargoes, making Apple look like an even better deal. Some just eat the losses; some increase their in-store service to make something really special. Some close down (Borders books). Even in Wargaming they're not the only ones: Privateer Press is a fair bit more expensive here, and the price hikes Fantasy Flight puts on Dust Warfare stuff makes GW prices look good!

Its a changing retail environment that we live in. Online shopping is finally becoming mainstream and acceptable. And currencies fluctuate all the time. If the Aussie dollar should happen to fall below the US in the next 5 years as is expected, that will significantly change the dynamic of when it is appropriate to buy from overseas. Should GW pull out if they could be back in business by then?

I guess the only thing you should do is that trite phrase: vote with your wallet. Behave like a rational consumer and not a brainwashed fanboy. If you like GW stuff, get it off the internet wherever you can: GW can't shut down companies who operate through distributors or eBay. If you're annoyed at GW, try a different game. Nothing will change unless the money tells GW to.

Myself, I'm getting the bare minimum of Tau stuff bought through a US online store and brought back to Australia by family who are visiting the US, while I sit at home and paint through my backlog of Tau, Trollbloods, Blutkreuz, and Britannia armies.


// end rant. phew....


Edit:
@ Taxes. GW products sold in Australia will be subject to, I believe, 10% GST and 5% import tax on toys... which put together is still less than the VAT.
@ Minimum wage: Sorry, USA. Your minimum wage is ridiculously low. It seems amazingly pointless to me to have a minimum wage that is not a living wage: it would be far better IMO to have less people employed but self-sustaining, than slightly more people employed but all still below the poverty line. But that's another discussion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/03 14:25:56


 
   
 
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