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I just finished Skarsnik, and I have to say, hands down the best Fantasy novel I've read from Black Library. Thoroughly enjoyable read. Its a great plot, from a tiny gobbo coming out of his spawning hole as the smallest runt in the herd, to becoming Skarsnik, king under the mountain. Its probably both the funniest and most brutal book they've made, as well.

10/10.

Good, looking forwards to that

meanwhile...

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/armageddon.html

About this Edition

This premium, 416 page hardback contains the classic novel Helsreach, the brand new novella 'Blood and Fire' and eight colour pages of illustrations, maps and equipment profiles.

Seems Blood and Fire can be ordered as a separate ebook.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000

Well, I have helsreach, and hate novellas (even if it is by Dembski-Bowden) but man, that bolter on the cover of blood and fire looks awesome.

I had a conversation with ADB about this Armageddon release yesterday.

I'm still really confused why I should buy this book, for more than twice what I paid for Hellsreach.

Here's screenshots of the FB convo we had on his public update:

What ADB says is simply not true. He must not be getting enough sleep due to the baby.

Interesting to read that BL's sales have absolutely 100% not been effected by this stuff at all.

I know it is only anecdotal, but many in this thread have said they haven't bought a HH book since the switch, and I know I haven't, as I continue to wait for the MMPB versions...

And honestly, for me, many (most?) BL books aren't 'worth' the extra price, outside of a select few (2) authors.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:What ADB says is simply not true. He must not be getting enough sleep due to the baby.

What element of that was not true? The general comments about the industry?

Alpharius wrote:Interesting to read that BL's sales have absolutely 100% not been effected by this stuff at all.

I know it is only anecdotal, but many in this thread have said they haven't bought a HH book since the switch, and I know I haven't, as I continue to wait for the MMPB versions...

And honestly, for me, many (most?) BL books aren't 'worth' the extra price, outside of a select few (2) authors.

Firstly, where are you getting the info from about the sales not being affected Alph?

About the last point, I feel exactly the same. I loved some BL books, but with a couple of exceptions I would regard them as 'pulp'. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but it just reflects the style of book, as something you can shoot through in a weekend or when you get home late from work and don't have the energy for anything more. In the same way I wouldn't pay £20 for hardback Star Trek TNG books, Forgotten Realms books back in the day, I won't for BL. They're being knocked out by the dozen, and I think the expectation of customer spending power is far too high in this case.

 Alpharius wrote:
Interesting to read that BL's sales have absolutely 100% not been effected by this stuff at all.

I know it is only anecdotal, but many in this thread have said they haven't bought a HH book since the switch, and I know I haven't, as I continue to wait for the MMPB versions...

And honestly, for me, many (most?) BL books aren't 'worth' the extra price, outside of a select few (2) authors.

Ditto.

In addition, not only have I not bought any HH book since the switch (but will continue to do so in MMPB when they launch) but I had begun to almost habitually read solely BL books. The switch to HB knocked me off that particular treadmill and I will now purchase solely HH MMPB books and I suspect very little else.

I cannot believe that the only people who have a problem with the BL changes are posting in this thread, perhaps there has been growth in other areas which has masked the drop off?

As for ADB, he's a creative, I doubt he's all that interested in the nuts and bolts, so while I respect his opinion, its probably not all that well informed. (ie his only source of info is likely his editor)

 Alpharius wrote:
Interesting to read that BL's sales have absolutely 100% not been effected by this stuff at all.

I know it is only anecdotal, but many in this thread have said they haven't bought a HH book since the switch, and I know I haven't, as I continue to wait for the MMPB versions...

And honestly, for me, many (most?) BL books aren't 'worth' the extra price, outside of a select few (2) authors.

And than there are the people who gladly pay well over GBP 150,- just to get a HH Hardcover slightly early (and I'd guess Nick Kyme isn't one of the "select few" for most).

And you'll note that this auction started at 0.99 GBP

I got the 'ADB says sales haven't been affected at all' comment right up there in Lint's spoilered Facebook comments post.

ADB wrote:I suspect they're not really driving anyone that loyal away, and if they were, sales figures (not just profit, but actual figures) would show it. And they don't. Trust me, they absolutely don't.

I still don't understand why the switch to a bigger format book? If you want to put the price up by a couple of quid fair enough, but why make it physically bigger? What's the point?

 azreal13 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Interesting to read that BL's sales have absolutely 100% not been effected by this stuff at all.

I know it is only anecdotal, but many in this thread have said they haven't bought a HH book since the switch, and I know I haven't, as I continue to wait for the MMPB versions...

And honestly, for me, many (most?) BL books aren't 'worth' the extra price, outside of a select few (2) authors.

Ditto.

In addition, not only have I not bought any HH book since the switch (but will continue to do so in MMPB when they launch) but I had begun to almost habitually read solely BL books. The switch to HB knocked me off that particular treadmill and I will now purchase solely HH MMPB books and I suspect very little else.

I cannot believe that the only people who have a problem with the BL changes are posting in this thread, perhaps there has been growth in other areas which has masked the drop off?

As for ADB, he's a creative, I doubt he's all that interested in the nuts and bolts, so while I respect his opinion, its probably not all that well informed. (ie his only source of info is likely his editor)

This post is literally mindblowing.. "Anecdotal evidence gathered from the posts of a handfull of users on an internet message board are probably better evidence than the views of someone who works in the industry, as they are probably the one who doesn't know what they're talking about."

On a more positive note, finished "Prince of Crows" by none other than ADB the other day from the Shadows of Treachery omnibus, and that was hands down the best HH novella/short so far, Sevatar is an exquisite character, a perfect representation of the Night Lords to me.

xowainx wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Interesting to read that BL's sales have absolutely 100% not been effected by this stuff at all.

I know it is only anecdotal, but many in this thread have said they haven't bought a HH book since the switch, and I know I haven't, as I continue to wait for the MMPB versions...

And honestly, for me, many (most?) BL books aren't 'worth' the extra price, outside of a select few (2) authors.

Ditto.

In addition, not only have I not bought any HH book since the switch (but will continue to do so in MMPB when they launch) but I had begun to almost habitually read solely BL books. The switch to HB knocked me off that particular treadmill and I will now purchase solely HH MMPB books and I suspect very little else.

I cannot believe that the only people who have a problem with the BL changes are posting in this thread, perhaps there has been growth in other areas which has masked the drop off?

As for ADB, he's a creative, I doubt he's all that interested in the nuts and bolts, so while I respect his opinion, its probably not all that well informed. (ie his only source of info is likely his editor)

This post is literally mindblowing.. "Anecdotal evidence gathered from the posts of a handfull of users on an internet message board are probably better evidence than the views of someone who works in the industry, as they are probably the one who doesn't know what they're talking about."

On a more positive note, finished "Prince of Crows" by none other than ADB the other day from the Shadows of Treachery omnibus, and that was hands down the best HH novella/short so far, Sevatar is an exquisite character, a perfect representation of the Night Lords to me.

Whatever dude, glad I could brighten your evening, I haven't got the energy to reiterate my point or explain where you've misunderstood.

If this is all it takes to blow your mind, I'd suggest reading less books and going outdoors more!

the switch in release format has not effected me one bit...
i still buy all of the novels...
of course, i shop smart, and look for the best deals...

the different size books don't bother me...
i started with hardback years ago, with Gaunt's Ghosts and the Ultramarines series...
i started with trade paperback years ago as well, with Space Marine Battles...
so what if i have 3 different sizes of book on my shelf???
i still enjoy the stories, and like that the books contain artwork...
as AD-B said, a larger book is not the end of the world...

i understand it's different strokes for different folks, but i'm one of the guys who doesn't have a problem with the switch...
we do exist...
i've happily made the switch to eBooks, which are cheaper, or i buy dead trees at a discount...
life goes on, and i keep reading...

speaking of reading, Skarsnik was great, and Headtaker is quite enjoyable...
now i'm just waiting for Unremembered Empire...

cheers
jah

Dude, you basically said, "he's just a writer, he doesn't know what he's talking about".

IMO they'd be better off not doing any MMPB and simply making them either trade sized or digital.

Alpharius wrote:I got the 'ADB says sales haven't been affected at all' comment right up there in Lint's spoilered Facebook comments post.

ADB wrote:I suspect they're not really driving anyone that loyal away, and if they were, sales figures (not just profit, but actual figures) would show it. And they don't. Trust me, they absolutely don't.

OK cheers mate. Have to say, I'm very surprised by that!

cincydooley wrote:Dude, you basically said, "he's just a writer, he doesn't know what he's talking about".

IMO they'd be better off not doing any MMPB and simply making them either trade sized or digital.

I know you've said this before, and I know I've replied before that I'm sure a lot of customers do still want the MMPB!

So, there we go, one more time

 cincydooley wrote:
Dude, you basically said, "he's just a writer, he doesn't know what he's talking about".

IMO they'd be better off not doing any MMPB and simply making them either trade sized or digital.

Yes, because creative talent the world over in all industries is famous for knowing the numbers side of the business inside out and making sound financial decisions right? Right?

I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just saying an author who writes near exclusively for one publisher isn't necessarily the most informed or unbiased source when it comes to facts and figures, especially when posting in an open forum.

If they stop doing HH in MMPB, they have lost me as a customer across all their divisions for the foreseeable future, so hopefully for both our sakes, that doesn't happen.

Yup. And I'll continue to state it. It's the way the publishing industry as a whole is moving. I think the move is a great one.

Disappointing shillery from Dembski-Bowden -- but not surprising in light of his other pro-GW apologetics. The print trade may be collapsing generally but it's difficult to imagine that BL was concerned about this. I mean, to go from multiple NYT Best Sellers in MMPB to ... how many since then? Oh right, none. Yeah, this hardback move will surely save BL.

The fact remains that the mass market industry as a whole fell over 20% last year. It's a trend that will continue.

BL is hardly synonymous with the mass market industry as a whole.

And how does " do what everyone else has always done" seem like a winning strategy? That strategy is exactly what has been failing for everyone else.

Why shouldn't it be? That's part of ADBs point. It's a publishing house. They've moved their practices to reflect the rest of th publishing industry. I don't know what so many people refuse to acknowledge that fact.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
They just think they've found a way to maximize profits from the series.

Time will tell if they're right.

I don't think they are, because I can tell you that I have pretty much stopped paying attention to the whole thing, and I was at the front of the line wanting these books a yer or so ago!

I'd have bought them all - if they were for sale up front.

Now, with the benefit of reviews and such, the clunkers will be left on the shelves...

You say that like it is a bad thing.

If you could have gotten reviews for "Battle for the Abyss" or "Fallen Angels" and "Descent of Angels" before the mass market paperbacks came out...
Imagine saving your brain from those atrocities!

I should further clarify so that I don't get the inevitable "Of course you like it, GW did this!".
If the Horus Heresy series were written by one or two authors with no breaks in continuity?
I would be pissed about this change.
But given that it's not and the quality varies wildly from book to book--I find it hard to get broken up over this change. I get to see a sampling of reviews from the community before I buy, assuming the books look interesting enough in the first place for someone to get drawn into them.

For me, the worst HH book, and the one that put me off the series, was that abortion featuring the Imperial Assassins. From beginning to end it was a crap fest. It got to the point where I would skip whole sections of the book to see if it got even a little better. I stopped reading the series with that one.

I don't think bothering an author over this though will achieve anything.

 cincydooley wrote:
Why shouldn't it be? That's part of ADBs point. It's a publishing house. They've moved their practices to reflect the rest of th publishing industry.

Printing hardbacks is not a cutting edge plan to curb declining sales of print books. It's part of the decades-old print trade that is currently falling apart. BL has jettisoned an approach that reliably landed their MMPBs on the NYT Best Seller List to one that simply doesn't -- all under the argument that joining the rest of the publishing industry in trade practices that have failed is somehow necessary. It doesn't add up.

Who says they're concerned about the decline of print? Should they be if they're making as much, or more, profit with their digital products?

Listen, I understand that there are plenty of folks in nerd hobbies that want tangible print. We see it here and in the comic book industry. But to ignore the massive increase in ebook sales (46% growth last year) is foolish.

 Manchu wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Why shouldn't it be? That's part of ADBs point. It's a publishing house. They've moved their practices to reflect the rest of th publishing industry.

Printing hardbacks is not a cutting edge plan to curb declining sales of print books. It's part of the decades-old print trade that is currently falling apart. BL has jettisoned an approach that reliably landed their MMPBs on the NYT Best Seller List to one that simply doesn't -- all under the argument that joining the rest of the publishing industry in trade practices that have failed is somehow necessary. It doesn't add up.

A very valid statement fro Manchu, if sales are falling 20% per year, why switch to the method that's clearly failing industry wide?

Sense it makes none.

MMPB are considered (by the industry, and many collectors) as a disposable format

The current state of affairs if that buyers are moving to e-books for their 'disposable' reading material

Hardbacks (and to a lesser extent trade paperbacks) are seen much more as a 'collectable' format (and many authors don't feel they're valued unless they get hardback releases)

and as yet there is no real sign (understandably) of ebooks filling this section

so the publishing industry in general is putting out more hardbacks & trade paperbacks which have better margins, and where sales are more stable

they're reducing the number and print runs of the mmpb

Just Black library behaving more like a standard publisher

 Pacific wrote:

BobtheInquisitor wrote:What ADB says is simply not true. He must not be getting enough sleep due to the baby.

What element of that was not true? The general comments about the industry?

Yeah, the industry stuff. I don't want to get into it in this thread with Cincy again, but when I get a chance to collect my thoughts, I want to start a thread in Dakka Discussions about books in general and tie-in fiction in particular.

I guess ADB just comes across really shill-ish, and I just can't believe that their sales have been affected. Or maybe I'm missing out and all the latest Hardcover HH novels also made the NYT Bestseller list...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:
The fact remains that the mass market industry as a whole fell over 20% last year. It's a trend that will continue.

You do know that the majority of the required reading books that American high schoolers are expected to buy every year were shifted from MMPB to the more expensive trade format over the last few years, yes? You know that the death of Borders and the increasing use of internet retailers and physical stores depending on special orders and smarter stocking has reduced the demand for the sheer quantity of MMPBs that used to be published just to make sure titles landed on every shelf even if most ended up coverless and binned, thus reducing the market without really reducing the readership or end-point sales?
Neither of those would affect Black Library.

I doubt BL switched to Hardcovers because they saw a 20% drop in book sales.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:
The fact remains that the mass market industry as a whole fell over 20% last year. It's a trend that will continue.

You do know that the majority of the required reading books that American high schoolers are expected to buy every year were shifted from MMPB to the more expensive trade format over the last few years, yes? You know that the death of Borders and the increasing use of internet retailers and physical stores depending on special orders and smarter stocking has reduced the demand for the sheer quantity of MMPBs that used to be published just to make sure titles landed on every shelf even if most ended up coverless and binned, thus reducing the market without really reducing the readership or end-point sales?
Neither of those would affect Black Library.

I doubt BL switched to Hardcovers because they saw a 20% drop in book sales.


EDIT: Gah! I didn't want to get into this! Why you gotta pull me in, Black Library?

 Manchu wrote:
Disappointing shillery from Dembski-Bowden -- but not surprising in light of his other pro-GW apologetics. The print trade may be collapsing generally but it's difficult to imagine that BL was concerned about this. I mean, to go from multiple NYT Best Sellers in MMPB to ... how many since then? Oh right, none. Yeah, this hardback move will surely save BL.

Exactly, that is not anecdotal and I don't understand how they can say the switch hasn't affected sales with a strait face for that very reason.


As for the whole 'the industry is moving that way' argument, BL is not the industry, BL has a niche market that almost exclusively caters to people in the (H-H-)hobby. They print out a ton of 'passable' books with a few great ones and terrible ones sprinkled in. Their authors pump out several books a year and no one there is putting out anything over 500 pages at a time. Paying $30-$40 (au, dunno about the rest of the world) for a 1000 page hardback every year-2 years from a good authour is great, no problem, hardbacks are nicer, but BL aren't putting out thousand page fantasy epics, they are putting out 400 pages of pulp that may be good or may suck.