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Made in ie
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

 Kingsley wrote:
 jonolikespie wrote:
Back to the point at hand Kingsley if your entire argument here is that GW games are different because plastic is easier to convert than metal you are on very very thin ice man.


I have to say I'm getting increasingly tired of people who seemingly don't bother to read the entirety of a post or understand the nuance of a complicated argument.


What is the subtlety we're missing?

GW has a huge range of figures? Correct, so do many other companies.
You can make GW figures your own via painting and customization? Correct, but you can at least as much with most other companies (Without parts restrictions).
That you can play huge games with GW stuff? Correct, but you can have huge games with figures from most other companies too.

The only valid point is that GW stuff is physically easier to convert because it's plastic/soft resin, and there are a lot of interchangeable components because of the multi-part nature of the kits and a host of 3rd party companies GW is trying to get rid of. And even then, other companies will be catching up with multi-part plastic kits so the advantage won't be with GW for long.
   
Made in ph
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Manila, Philippines

Funny what constitutes a complicated argument nowadays.

It's a just as complicated as how Vampire: the Masquerade is different to D&D, and yet Kingsley dismisses it as "too similar" because it wouldn't support his argument.


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I'm off to pick some cherries.

And then make an argument.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Incubus





New York City

I think there has been enough evidence given to constitute a decline. How many years would you say till GW goes out of business? I asking those who know better through experience empirical data and expertise. Not those seeking to grind GW between their iron fingers.

   
Made in us
Dominar






 aosol wrote:
I think there has been enough evidence given to constitute a decline. How many years would you say till GW goes out of business? I asking those who know better through experience empirical data and expertise. Not those seeking to grind GW between their iron fingers.


I, nor anyone, can give a hard answer to this but the best indicator would likely lie with 'whenever the annual 10% price hike finally takes individual model cost to the point at which fewer than 90% of last year's customers show up, and there are no expenses left to be cut, and no assets remaining to be sold'.

I don't know what that price level is, but I'd guess it's somewhere near the $100/box level. It seems quite a few of the new GW boxes are still in $60-$70 vicinities, so we're looking at about 5-7 years into the future before incremental price increases ration enough demand that volume declines fully offset. That'll be when the death spiral becomes realized.
   
Made in us
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Barfolomew wrote:
Even if you just adjust for inflation, you end up with the below:

2003 - 32,218,000
2004 - 32,017,370
2005 - 27,639,192
2006 - 25,211,528
2007 - 22,137,978
2008 - 23,246,904
2009 - 25,089,456
2010 - 25,766,480
2011 - 24,018,500
2012 - 26,123,517
This definitely paints a more interesting picture to me, it goes against the often stated idea that "they keep raising prices because people keep buying it".
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Unfortunately it's also based on the very questionable assumption of flat 7% price increases per year, so ultimately isn't very meaningful.
   
Made in us
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Kingsley wrote:
Unfortunately it's also based on the very questionable assumption of flat 7% price increases per year, so ultimately isn't very meaningful.
The prices I quoted were the ones which were inflation only, not the 7% ones.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Kingsley wrote:
Unfortunately it's also based on the very questionable assumption of flat 7% price increases per year, so ultimately isn't very meaningful.
The prices I quoted were the ones which were inflation only, not the 7% ones.


My mistake, had the thread open in two different tabs and saw the wrong post.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Still waiting on an answer for this one Kingsley:
So, trying to understand this properly, Kingsley, what is your vew of GW? how are they helping the "hobby" per say.

You said you couldn't see any parallels with TSR. TSR tried to enforce copyright over the word "Dragon"

Games Workshop, you may recall claimed trademark infringement on the word Space Marine.Link

How are these not similar?

edited because copy/paste fail.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 16:49:02


Warboss Gubbinz
http://www.snakeyesgaming.blogspot.com

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA

 Warboss Gubbinz wrote:
Still waiting on an answer for this one Kingsley:
So, trying to understand this properly, Kingsley, what is your vew of GW? how are they helping the "hobby" per say.

You said you couldn't see any parallels with TSR. TSR tried to enforce copyright over the word "Dragon"

Games Workshop, you may recall claimed trademark infringement on the word Space Marine.Link

How are these not similar?


Because GW is infallible?

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch

FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 Warboss Gubbinz wrote:
Still waiting on an answer for this one Kingsley:
So, trying to understand this properly, Kingsley, what is your vew of GW? how are they helping the "hobby" per say.

You said you couldn't see any parallels with TSR. TSR tried to enforce copyright over the word "Dragon"

Games Workshop, you may recall claimed trademark infringement on the word Space Marine.Link

How are these not similar?


They are similar. In fact, I said that earlier. My very first reply regarding the TSR comparison said that I thought that copyright enforcement was the one valid parallel between the two.
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

 aosol wrote:
I think there has been enough evidence given to constitute a decline. How many years would you say till GW goes out of business? I asking those who know better through experience empirical data and expertise. Not those seeking to grind GW between their iron fingers.


I think they'll continue as they are for another few years, stemming their losses but ultimately losing ground to everyone else until they drop below critical mass with the gamers they drove out of the stores, and will scale right back to a boutique supplier for die-hard fans. I don't think 40K will fall from the #1 spot for at least another 5 years though
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 Kingsley wrote:
Unfortunately it's also based on the very questionable assumption of flat 7% price increases per year, so ultimately isn't very meaningful.


It's based on the easily demonstrated increases of varying levels for different SKUs which average out to x% a year (whatever they do average to, I don't know exactly).

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Kingsley wrote:
Unfortunately it's also based on the very questionable assumption of flat 7% price increases per year, so ultimately isn't very meaningful.


It's based on the easily demonstrated increases of varying levels for different SKUs which average out to x% a year (whatever they do average to, I don't know exactly).


One problem with this is that we don't really know what SKUs are and aren't popular. Averaging hence misses a lot of nuance and overall detail. This is also why it isn't clear what effects price increases have on overall sales.
   
Made in us
Aspirant Tech-Adept





GW survived a world wide very serious recession. They have the top selling line of table top miniatures in a market (USA) that grew 15% last year. Why do people think the end times are near for GW?

Any business can tank but GW has persisted at the top for decades. The value of the stock has increased even though sales have been flat. In general that means investors must think that in recent months GW is doing something correctly or are optimistic that GW is on track.

I get that GW does a lot of things that frustrate hobbyists. However, that frustration does not mean that they are not running a successful business. If GW does tank I think it would be a disaster for the tabletop miniature industry and set us back years.

   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

It's easy to know what is popular by looking around what people are buying and playing.

Obviously Tau are popular, for example.

Are you going to claim that the really popular models are the few examples that haven't gone up much over the past 10 years, so GW are enjoying huge sales growth?


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's easy to know what is popular by looking around what people are buying and playing.

Obviously Tau are popular, for example.

Are you going to claim that the really popular models are the few examples that haven't gone up much over the past 10 years, so GW are enjoying huge sales growth?



One example of what's really popular are Troops, because everyone has to have them. Troops haven't gone up much and indeed many have gone down. But the actual specific proportions of Troops kit sales relative to others are very important here, and we don't have that.
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





JWhex wrote:
If GW does tank I think it would be a disaster for the tabletop miniature industry and set us back years.

I seriously think you're overestimating their "pull" in the market.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 Kingsley wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's easy to know what is popular by looking around what people are buying and playing.

Obviously Tau are popular, for example.

Are you going to claim that the really popular models are the few examples that haven't gone up much over the past 10 years, so GW are enjoying huge sales growth?



One example of what's really popular are Troops, because everyone has to have them. Troops haven't gone up much and indeed many have gone down. But the actual specific proportions of Troops kit sales relative to others are very important here, and we don't have that.


Another example of what's popular is all the other stuff you need for a real army, a lot of which has gone up a lot.

We've got plenty of info regarding general proportions of units sales by looking around at what people have bought.


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Kingsley wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's easy to know what is popular by looking around what people are buying and playing.

Obviously Tau are popular, for example.

Are you going to claim that the really popular models are the few examples that haven't gone up much over the past 10 years, so GW are enjoying huge sales growth?



One example of what's really popular are Troops, because everyone has to have them. Troops haven't gone up much and indeed many have gone down. But the actual specific proportions of Troops kit sales relative to others are very important here, and we don't have that.


Not sure where you are getting the troops staying low from...

If we look at Grey Knights from FY 2004 to now...the basic troop went from 5 for $25 ($5 each) then and 5 for $33 ($6.60) now. +32%
If we look at Necrons from FY 2004 to now...the basic troop went from 12 for $30 ($2.50) then and 12 for $36.25 ($3.02) now. +21%
If we look at Orks from FY2004 to now...the basic Troop is 16 for $30 ($1.88 each) then and 10 for $29 ($2.90) now. +54%
If we look at Tau from FY 2004 to now...the basic Troop went from 12 for $30 ($2.50) then and 12 for $36.25 ($3.02) now. +21%
If we look at CSM from FY 2004 to now...the basic Troop went from 8 for $30 ($3.75) then to 10 for $37.25 ($3.73) now. -1%
If we look at SM from FY 2004 to now...the basic Troop went from 10 for $30 ($3.00) then to 10 for $37.25 ($3.73) now. +24%
If we look at Dark Eldar from FY 2004 to now...the basic Troop went from 16 for $30 ($1.88) then to 10 for $29 ($2.90) now. +54%
If we look at Nids from FY 2004 to now...the basic Troop went from 12 for $30 ($2.50) then to 8 for $30 ($3.75) now. +50%
If we look at IG from FY 2004 to now...the basic Troop went from 20 for $30 ($1.50) then to 10 for $29 ($2.90) now. +93%
If we look at SoB from FY 2004 to now...the basic Troop went from 10 for $35 ($3.50) then to 3 for $17.25 ($5.75) now. +64%
If we look at Eldar from FY 2004 to now...the basic Troop went from 16 for $30 ($1.88) then to 10 for $36.25 ($3.63) now. +93%

The CSM got a slight down turn - everyone else is up. The change is in the bold at the end of each line. Cliff notes is that close to the rate of inflation is simple bold. Orange is over the rate of inflation but less than double. Red is more the double but less than triple. Bold, Italics, dark red are more than triple the rate of inflation - far and above the regular rate of increase for armies as a whole.

So...troops have gone up. Many of them have gone up a lot. In particular for a guard army which is heavy with troops - they have seen a 93% increase on their troops. Half the armies have seen troop increases that are double the rate of inflation or more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Kingsley wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's easy to know what is popular by looking around what people are buying and playing.

Obviously Tau are popular, for example.

Are you going to claim that the really popular models are the few examples that haven't gone up much over the past 10 years, so GW are enjoying huge sales growth?



One example of what's really popular are Troops, because everyone has to have them. Troops haven't gone up much and indeed many have gone down. But the actual specific proportions of Troops kit sales relative to others are very important here, and we don't have that.


Another example of what's popular is all the other stuff you need for a real army, a lot of which has gone up a lot.

We've got plenty of info regarding general proportions of units sales by looking around at what people have bought.



And even more from the accidently posted sealed document regarding GW sales figures for North America from the CHS case...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
JWhex wrote:
They have the top selling line of table top miniatures in a market (USA) that grew 15% last year. Why do people think the end times are near for GW?


Think you might be missing a whole heck of a lot. GW hasn't grown in the US for well over a decade. They are treading water.

Hobby games in general are growing like mad in the US though, GW isn't part of that growth though.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/09 21:58:58


 
   
Made in us
Aspirant Tech-Adept





The point is they are in the top spot in a healthy market, thus the predictions of their imminent demise seems to me to be premature.

   
Made in us
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





JWhex wrote:
The point is they are in the top spot in a healthy market, thus the predictions of their imminent demise seems to me to be premature.
I don't think anyone is saying "imminent demise", they are top spot, but they are shrinking in a market that is growing.
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






 Kingsley wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's easy to know what is popular by looking around what people are buying and playing.

Obviously Tau are popular, for example.

Are you going to claim that the really popular models are the few examples that haven't gone up much over the past 10 years, so GW are enjoying huge sales growth?



One example of what's really popular are Troops, because everyone has to have them. Troops haven't gone up much and indeed many have gone down. But the actual specific proportions of Troops kit sales relative to others are very important here, and we don't have that.


I'd just like to point out that once upon a time you could buy 20 Guardsmen for less than it is for 10 guardsmen. Those said 10 guardsmen are now considerably more expensive !

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






JWhex wrote:
The point is they are in the top spot in a healthy market, thus the predictions of their imminent demise seems to me to be premature.


As my investor friends like to say, if a company can't grow in a growing industry they have structural problems.

GW has structural problems, and much like houses with structural problems - I wouldn't want to live inside of it. Companies like that can often go along seemingly well enough for years and then implode overnight...or they may just slowly grind into the ground as upstarts pass them by and seize the market from them.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 Sean_OBrien wrote:
Not sure where you are getting the troops staying low from...


I've posted this several times before, but:

Kingsley wrote:Here are the prices for the Troops units for every 40k army (format is price (inflation-adjusted price)) compared between August 2004 and now:

Assault Marines (for Blood Angels): 30 USD (36.41) USD for 5 in 2004 (Sergeants with special melee weapons bought separately at 8 (9.71) USD per), 33 USD for 5 now, Sergeant special melee options included. (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Space Wolf Grey Hunters/Blood Claws: 30 (36.41) USD for 10 in 2004 (special weapon status unclear), 37.25 USD for 10 now with special weapons and special melee weapons included, plus tons of bitz (comparison unclear, probably increase or decrease depending on loadout)
Scouts with melee weapons: 20 (24.27) USD for 5 including Sergeant in 2004 (heavy bolter bought separately at 8 (9.71) USD per): 25 USD for 5 now, heavy bolter included (price increase or decrease depending on loadout)
Scouts with bolters or shotguns: 8 (9.71) USD for 2 in 2004 (heavy bolter bought separately at 8 (9.71) USD per), 25 USD for 5 now, heavy bolter included (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Scouts with sniper rifles: 8 (9.71) USD for 2 in 2004 (Sergeant bought separately at 7 (8.50) per), 25 USD for 5 now, Sergeant and missile launcher option included (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Tactical Marines: 30 (36.41) USD for 10 in 2004 (non-flamer special weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD per), 37.25 USD for 10 now with non-flamer special weapons included (price increase or decrease depending on loadout)

Bloodletters of Khorne: 45 (54.61) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)
Dæmonettes of Slaanesh: 40 (48.51) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease, but man I liked those old sculpts )
Horrors of Tzeentch: 40 (48.51) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)
Plaguebearers of Nurgle: 40 (48.51) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)

Chaos Space Marines: 25 (30.34) USD for 8 in 2004, 37.25 USD for 10 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Dark Eldar Warriors: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004 (special/heavy weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD for one blaster and one shredder or 10 (12.14) USD for two Dark Lances) 29 USD for 10 now with all options included (price increase or inflation-adjusted price decrease depending on loadout)
Dark Eldar Wyches: 30 (36.41) USD for 5 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)

Eldar Dire Avengers: 30 (36.41) USD for 8 in 2004, 37.25 for 10 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Eldar Guardians: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004 (heavy weapons platforms bought separately with two crew at 20 (24.27) USD per), 36.25 for 10 now with heavy weapons platform included (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Grey Knights: 30 (36.41) USD for 5 in 2004 (special weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD per), 33 USD for 5 now with special weapons included (price decrease)
Grey Knight Terminators: 55 (66.75) USD for 5 in 2004 (special weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD per), 50 USD for 5 now with special weapons included (price decrease)

Imperial Guard plastics (Cadians, Catachans): 30 (36.41) USD for 20 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price increase)
Imperial Guard metals (Valhallans, Steel Legion, Vostroyans, Tallarn, Mordians): 35 (42.48) USD for 10 in 2004, 35 USD for 10 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Necron Immortals: 10 (12.14) USD for 1 in 2004, 33 USD for 5 now (price decrease)
Necron Warriors: 30 (36.41) USD for 12 in 2004, 36.25 USD for 12 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Ork Boyz: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price increase or decrease depending on loadout, as the new kit has options for special weapons and a Nob)
Gretchin
Gretchin 34 (41.79) USD for 13 in 2004, 16.50 USD for 11 now (price decrease)

Sisters of Battle: 35 (42.48) USD for 10 in 2004, 64 USD for 10 now (price increase)

Tau Fire Warriors: 30 (36.41) USD for 12 in 2004, 36.25 USD for 12 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Kroot Carnivores: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004, 36.25 USD for 16 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Termagants: 30 (36.41) for 16 in 2004, 29 USD for 12 now (price increase)
Hormagaunts: 30 (36.41) for 16 in 2004, 29 USD for 12 now (price increase)
Genestealers: 30 (36.41) for 12 in 2004, 30 USD for 8 now (price increase)

So overall, we see that of the 29 basic Troops kits, 5 have gone up in price since August 2004, 5 went up or down depending on what loadout you took (and typically went down), 10 went down in price when you account for inflation, and 9 outright decreased in price without accounting for inflation. In other words, 65% of Troops choices have gone down in price since August 2004. Since this comprises 8-9 years of nominal "price increases," it's clear that GW does not hike prices as much as many people think.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 22:39:05


 
   
Made in de
Painting Within the Lines




Hamburg Germany

Lets take the numbers aside, I just understand enough about statistics to know you can prove everything, you just have to analyse the right part of your data in order to show what you want to show. But you need an analyst and the complete data to understand where the crux is buried.
The rest of the discussion let me conclude one thing. Kingsley, I believe we have met. Aren't you that guy that used to sell sinking boats on Melée Island? Well seems you are still in the business.
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

It seems to me that a lot of figures aren't the same figures, they've been done again in plastic. It's not really fair to compare entirely different sculpts. That's why I don't make a big deal about space marines being 30 for £10 when first released as compared to 10 for £23 now. I'm fairly sure that a lot of those on Kingsley's list made the transition from metal to plastic during those price drops and that the comparison isn't taking into account a cheaper material with decreased detail and undercuts, the sacrifices you make taking plastic over metal.

What is fair to note more are things like the Catachans, for which the very same models available today at 10 for £18 were originally priced 20 for £10.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Once you start trying to figure all the special weapons, heavy weapons and other upgrades you end up going off the rails. Without digging into things too deeply, a quick example is with the GK PA.

If you bought the box, you got a Justicar, 3 regular PA and one armed with an incinerator. That is $30 for 5 using your starting point ($6 each). The rate of inflation between then and now is roughly 20% (because you are not dealing with whole years). So, you can adjust your price up to $7.20 per if you like to think inflation should factor in...but wait...

At that same time, you could buy 2 regular PA for $10 as well (so $5 each). So, if you wanted to run a unit of 10 with one Psycannon and one Incinerator you would have $30 + $10x2 + $10 for a total unit price of $60 (or $6 each).

If however you wanted to run with a partial group (say 7) due to your points using the Justicar, incernator, 3 PAGK which come in the box plus 2 extras for a total of $40 that is $5.71 per figure in that unit which adjusts up to $6.85 per if you are in favor of the inflation adjustment being applicable.

Now - that is more than the $6.60 per figure out of the plastic boxes...but now make that same 7 man unit... You have to spend $9.43 per figure (2 boxes with no option to buy singles) in order to get to the same number of figures.

Even if you were looking at a 6 man team with two Psycannons or incinerators you would still be looking at $8 or more per figure now. Over and above the old prices even when inflation is calculated into things.

The same problems crop up whenever you start to actually apply the boxes (which may or may not have useful parts in them) to building a whole army. Like I said before - the metal figures don't factor into army prices as much as you might think they do. Splitting a plastic set across two units and filling it with metal singles (or doubles or triples in some cases) can be more cost effective when you are building a 1500 point army as opposed to just comparing maxed out load outs outside the context of the actual game itself.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 insaniak wrote:
Yeah, aside from the brand dilution part, you could practically just swap out 'TSR' for 'GW' in that article...


One could argue that long term, LOTR is diluting the brand. All the rules and such that cant be mixed and matched, models cant be used side by side or kitbashed together, and the Hobbit looks like a failure. Its now taking up resources that arent being fullfilled profit wise now that the LOTR bubble is long dead and gone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kingsley wrote:

I've played three different editions of D&D, Paranoia, GI, Dark Heresy, Deathwatch, and Eclipse Phase. All of those games are far more similar to one another than 40k is to Infinity, and they comprise a huge range of settings, rules, and encouraged styles of play. I'm not talking about rules or settings but the fundamental elements of gameplay.


If you think that, You didnt really play. paranoia is WAY different the D&D. DH and DW are similar becuase they were made by the same company. The 3 different editions of D&D- 2nd, 3.x and 4th play WAY differently from each other. The elements are different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sean_OBrien wrote:
 insaniak wrote:


Internet retailers have been restrained in the US since 2001 or 2003 and by all accounts this has increased sales.

Which accounts would those be?



Obviously that North American Sales skyrocketed after the 2003 (GW FY2004) internet ban went in place...wait...nope, that didn't happen:

2001 - 31,539,000
2002 - 32,791,000 (launch of LotR game)
2003 - 32,218,000
2004 - 33,110,000 (US Internet shopping cart ban and GW global sales high point)
2005 - 29,624,000 (with the ginormous price hike)
2006 - 27,766,000
2007 - 25,534,000
2008 - 26,844,000
2009 - 29,904,000
2010 - 31,270,000
2011 - 30,250,000
2012 - 33,621,000

All in pounds of course...but, the evidence clearly shows that the internet ban has been excellent for growing sales in the US...oh, my bad again...it didn't instill growth at all.



Thats all great, but the real telling is what were the number of units sold per year?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/10 01:17:52


Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...  
   
 
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