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Fluff alert . . .

The title pretty much says it, I was sitting around pondering 40K stuff as I often do and began to wonder . . . can an Astartes warrior swim or will he sink like a rock? I puttered around the internet a bit and didn't really find anything. I realize that his power armor will allow him to breathe underwater as normal, but, can he swim? I mean it would be a pretty good feat to see a roughly 600 pound Power Armor clad warrior actually propel himself through water. Perhaps they have some sort of propulsion in the power armor?

I'm interested in any fact or ideas on this...and this forum is certainly the right place to ask!

They wear waterwings.

If I remember correctly , in a fluff piece between marines and Tau they had modified jumppacks or some such for aquatic combat, and the tau used converted crisis suits with little torp launchers for the missle pods.

So does my daughter (water wings)....but she weighs 30 pounds and she isn't encased in exotic metals. Nope...that doesn't cut it!

 Demigod wrote:
Fluff alert . . .

The title pretty much says it, I was sitting around pondering 40K stuff as I often do and began to wonder . . . can an Astartes warrior swim or will he sink like a rock? I puttered around the internet a bit and didn't really find anything. I realize that his power armor will allow him to breathe underwater as normal, but, can he swim? I mean it would be a pretty good feat to see a roughly 600 pound Power Armor clad warrior actually propel himself through water. Perhaps they have some sort of propulsion in the power armor?

I'm interested in any fact or ideas on this...and this forum is certainly the right place to ask!

Primates like chimps and gorilla's can't swim due to the density of their bones.

Realistically Astartes other then armour propulsion should not be able to swim

That is a good point, even though it is disappointing. I mean come on, Astartes can do almost anything, anywhere, anytime, for insanely long periods of time, all across the galaxy....they are god like. But, drop them in the middle of the ocean and they're doomed?

Well, while they may not be able to swim, they could just walk along the seabed. Or take a Land Raider. And I'm almost certain a Stormraven/Storm Eagle/ Thunderhawk would be able to. I mean they are sealed enough resist space so they could survive water, and they have turbines to propel them.

There's an example from the Space Wolf codex of them taking out an underwater T'au City, no?

I imagine they'd just walk along the ocean floor. I mean, they are incased in armour that can survive vacuum. Whether or not it can withstand the pressures of the ocean is another thing, though.

 Deadshot wrote:
Well, while they may not be able to swim, they could just walk along the seabed. Or take a Land Raider. And I'm almost certain a Stormraven/Storm Eagle/ Thunderhawk would be able to. I mean they are sealed enough resist space so they could survive water, and they have turbines to propel them.

I thought the same thing, and I agree they could walk on the sea bed, but for how long? I am currently reading The Horus Heresy, Battle for the Abyss and We were just talking about that here at the office, how long can an Astartes internal air supply last?

 Demigod wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Well, while they may not be able to swim, they could just walk along the seabed. Or take a Land Raider. And I'm almost certain a Stormraven/Storm Eagle/ Thunderhawk would be able to. I mean they are sealed enough resist space so they could survive water, and they have turbines to propel them.

I thought the same thing, and I agree they could walk on the sea bed, but for how long? I am currently reading The Horus Heresy, Battle for the Abyss and

Spoiler:

when Mhotep (Thousand Sons) was ejected from his ship upon it's destruction he was watching all the non-Astartes die off in cold space yet he was still alive and thinking to himself "I need to find a pod soon, can't survive out here for long".

We were just talking about that here at the office, how long can an Astartes internal air supply last?

Depends on how full, what type, and overall the situation sustained by the armor.

A standard internal air supply can last about thirty minutes, though mainly because of the suits oxygen scrubbers that take in carbon dioxide and makes it oxygen, it will take longer.

Adapted air supplies (Space, water) Can last several hours, even longer with said oxygen scrubbers.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


Depends on how full, what type, and overall the situation sustained by the armor.

A standard internal air supply can last about thirty minutes, though mainly because of the suits oxygen scrubbers that take in carbon dioxide and makes it oxygen, it will take longer.

Adapted air supplies (Space, water) Can last several hours, even longer with said oxygen scrubbers.

That is interesting, I was wondering what the standard suit could do in a vacuum or under water. Also didn't know that the suit scrubbed CO2 and made O2 from it. So where are these stats and the "Adapted Suits' mentioned?

They may be able to swim, their body may still be less dense than water. And they may be strong enough to just tread water and counter the downward force. And there are a few novels which have marines swimming(Space Wolf Omnibus)

But even if they can't swim, they will simply walk along the bottom. Marines can also breath water thanks to their third lung.

The multilung allows them to breath underwater, so they could walk along the ocean floor indefinitely.

EDIT: ninja'd

Also brotherhood of the snake has lots of swimming without armour but also no breathing underwater

 bcaman wrote:
Also brotherhood of the snake has lots of swimming without armour but also no breathing underwater

IIRC they were deliberatly not using their Multi-lung or something, or maybe they didn't have one.

You know those little balls on the top of power armour are maneuvering thrusters, right? I'm sure they work just as well underwater as they do in the void.

 Grey Templar wrote:
. Marines can also breath water thanks to their third lung.

YES...that's right. I do remember that now that you mention it. Although, can they breathe water with that lung whilst in power armor...or would they have to remove their helmet? Can't believe I forgot about that.

Well, the suit has its own internal air recycler and air supply.

But I imagine the suits filters could strain oxygen from the water itself.

Orblivion wrote:The multilung allows them to breath underwater

Yet the Raptors can only walk the surface of their Chapter Homeworld equipped with respirators because "the atmosphere of the planet is so heavily saturated with moisture that human lungs, even the hyper efficient multi-lungs of a Space Marine, are unable to extract enough oxygen from the air" ...
And this is still air, not actual water.

However, I guess it's a matter of which sources we look at. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same for swimming as well. All depends on how gritty or fantastical we'd like it.
So if Astartes being unable to swim isn't good enough for anyone, they could easily dismiss such annoying details. The way the fluff is handled lends such artistic liberties to gamers just as much as it lends them to the various authors of official material.

Also keep in mind, given the size of the Imperium, there are some fairly exotic worlds with different kinds of water.

In one of the Soul Drinkers books, they basically steal a few naval vessals and sail across this murky, disease infested sea. When the ships are attacked and some Marines go overboard, they sink and sink and don't come back. No third lung or power armor could save them.

As for the just walk on the seabed, depending on the depth they would be crushed regardless.

Now, come to think of that...

Marine vs Delta P.

I wonder if they would end up like that crab. XD

Well I remember reading that with his helmet on a marine could basically survive in void indefinately in combination with Sus-An membranes to slow metabolic rate way down. So if they could do that, then a battle underwater isno problem. I believe its the DoW2 novel. Will check.


And the multilung, the book I take as hard fact as far as fluff can go, the codex, says they can breathe in poisonous air and even water.

Can't remember the outcome but there is a tidbit where Ragnar is underwater and need to swim or walk can't rember all I know is that it's in Wolfblade somewhere after the fight agaisnt the cultist in the underground tunnels iirc. It mentions particularly the subject of swimming and armour.

 Soladrin wrote:
As for the just walk on the seabed, depending on the depth they would be crushed regardless.

Now, come to think of that...

Marine vs Delta P.

I wonder if they would end up like that crab. XD

Not necessarily. If it were true that they could breathe the water, then they could theoretically flood their armor and equalize the pressure.

Orblivion wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:
As for the just walk on the seabed, depending on the depth they would be crushed regardless.

Now, come to think of that...

Marine vs Delta P.

I wonder if they would end up like that crab. XD

Not necessarily. If it were true that they could breathe the water, then they could theoretically flood their armor and equalize the pressure.

Flooding the armor will not prevent the marine getting crushed from the pressure at abyssal depths. Blood vessels, organs, muscle tissue, bones etc will still be crushed.

A marine in power armour is going to sink like a rock, in addition to the armor plates the backpack would be like having a boat anchor strapped to you.

Lynata wrote:

The multilung allows them to breath underwater

Yet the Raptors can only walk the surface of their Chapter Homeworld equipped with respirators because "the atmosphere of the planet is so heavily saturated with moisture that human lungs, even the hyper efficient multi-lungs of a Space Marine, are unable to extract enough oxygen from the air" ...
And this is still air, not actual water.

Another case of authors didn't do their physics? Air can only take so much moisture. When maximum saturation is reached, humidity has 100%. When there is more, the water starts to fall out. If this happens over your head, it is called clouds, if it happens on your level, it is called fog. When temperature rises, the air is able to hold more water, before 100% humidity is reached, but how hot must the air be? I have heard heat and moisture make life miserable for people not accustomed to it in the monsoon, but never that someone drowned by breathing. Is this actually possible? Physician, anyone?

And while it can be difficult to breath in 100% humidity its usually not because of the water content.

 Deadshot wrote:
Well I remember reading that with his helmet on a marine could basically survive in void indefinately in combination with Sus-An membranes to slow metabolic rate way down. So if they could do that, then a battle underwater isno problem. I believe its the DoW2 novel. Will check.

C.S. goto wrote that, disregard evertything he wrote.

And the multilung, the book I take as hard fact as far as fluff can go, the codex, says they can breathe in poisonous air and even water.

I'd just add, to a certain degree on the poison, there are still toxic climates which will off an Astartes in a matter of minutes.

Seriously, C.S. Goto is the guy who managed to turn a land raider into a razorback into different landraider in 3 pages. Also, backflipping terminators.

JWhex wrote:

Orblivion wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:
As for the just walk on the seabed, depending on the depth they would be crushed regardless.

Now, come to think of that...

Marine vs Delta P.

I wonder if they would end up like that crab. XD

Not necessarily. If it were true that they could breathe the water, then they could theoretically flood their armor and equalize the pressure.

Flooding the armor will not prevent the marine getting crushed from the pressure at abyssal depths. Blood vessels, organs, muscle tissue, bones etc will still be crushed.

A marine in power armour is going to sink like a rock, in addition to the armor plates the backpack would be like having a boat anchor strapped to you.

It depends on exactly how deep we are talking about, but yes you are correct.

The Iron Snakes do it quite a lot in Dan Abnett's novel of the same name actually. One chapter's almost entirely the marines swimming about actually. In that one its part of how the marine's train. The majority of the marines also disobey chapter law and swim down into a deep trench. Their superhuman bodies keep them alive, but its been banned due to a number of marines dying despite this. The Iron Snake's whole culture is based around the sea, so its kind of an integral part of their culture. =P

 Soladrin wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Well I remember reading that with his helmet on a marine could basically survive in void indefinately in combination with Sus-An membranes to slow metabolic rate way down. So if they could do that, then a battle underwater isno problem. I believe its the DoW2 novel. Will check.

C.S. goto wrote that, disregard evertything he wrote.

And the multilung, the book I take as hard fact as far as fluff can go, the codex, says they can breathe in poisonous air and even water.

I'd just add, to a certain degree on the poison, there are still toxic climates which will off an Astartes in a matter of minutes.

Seriously, C.S. Goto is the guy who managed to turn a land raider into a razorback into different landraider in 3 pages. Also, backflipping terminators.

Good thing Goto didn't write the book I'm talking about then! Don't start assuming things. I know all about Goto and I wouldn't bother to quote in a fluff discussion.

And yes, there will be poisonous atmospheres too bad for SMs. Mortarion's homeworld springs to mind. Mortarion himself couldn't breathe at the worst parts so...