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 pretre wrote:
Buy big lots cheap and sell them for a profit. Use the profit to pay for your armies.

The simple act of buying poorly painted or damaged models, stripping them, and fixing them up can actually make some 'ok' money. Even better if you have any paint skills.

I know in the ork community, people pay for conversions and rehabbed models. It is easier to buy odd lots of damaged and broken models, get 40 of them, convert the 20 I want, and sell the rest. Sometimes you can cover the entire cost if done well.

nkelsch wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Buy big lots cheap and sell them for a profit. Use the profit to pay for your armies.

The simple act of buying poorly painted or damaged models, stripping them, and fixing them up can actually make some 'ok' money. Even better if you have any paint skills.

I know in the ork community, people pay for conversions and rehabbed models. It is easier to buy odd lots of damaged and broken models, get 40 of them, convert the 20 I want, and sell the rest. Sometimes you can cover the entire cost if done well.

Exactly. Although I was mostly talking about buying huge lots of models from motivated buyers at 25% and selling at 40-50%. I've been doing this for the last year or two and it has been amazing. I don't think I've actually paid for any 40k in that time outside of my profit. The negative is that you have to be able to front $1,000 for a month or so. The positive is 30-50% profit on that $1,000.

Saldiven wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
While different units rise and fall in power, very rarely are things made totally obsolete.

Unless you invested in Squats or Dogs of War.

Lost and the Damned.

I did say "vary rarely" not "never" I've got IG assault troops and support squads with their heavy weapons on their shoulders, rather then gun teams on large bases. Sometimes you just get hosed. I also played "Undead" before there was Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts. Nothing quite like watching half your units walk away.

But of the ~200 marines I have, only a handful are not WYSWYG, and those that aren't are close enough to work unless someone is being a stickler.

I guess that could be another piece of advice: Don't play anything marginal or fringe if you are taking the longterm growth path.

On another note, If you are on a budget, prioritize and be aware of your expenses. For anyone in a situation where money is tight (and in general) I'd recommend keeping a notepad for a month and write down every penny you spend. How much cash do you drop down vending machines? How often do you eat out? Sure, it's a dollar here, and $5 there, but it adds up, and fast. Most people could probably trim enough cash out of random, small, expenditures to afford a GW kit every month. And that's not counting major entertainment expenditures. Going to the movies these days is a massive chunk of change. Is it worth it to you?

eBay.

'Nuff said.

After the last week or so of digging around, you can play Heroquest, or Mordhiem for as much as it costs to download the material, and buy a unit box set and a couple of heros.

The variation on a theme for Mordhiem and Heroquest goes to several different settings as well.

 Aerethan wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
While different units rise and fall in power, very rarely are things made totally obsolete.

Unless you invested in Squats or Dogs of War.

Most squats can be used as proxy Imperial Guard. Many Dogs of War units make nice regiments for Empire.

I think the main reason people want to play GW games is for larger scale battles of 40k and Fantasy rather than the skirmish based specialist games. The cheapest way to do the main games are ebay or 3rd party miniatures.

If you simply want to play skirmish games, there's a lot of options there as well.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think the main reason people want to play GW games is for larger scale battles of 40k and Fantasy rather than the skirmish based specialist games.

Specialist Games didn't disappear after 6 months because they were unpopular, they disappeared after 6 months because GW took them off the shelves after that. They were never meant to be Core games, and were never meant to sell for longer than that. The fact that communities have sprung up around each and every one of them means people enjoy them more than GW's core games.

Also, by your logic, Epic and Warmaster would be the two Core games. Far, far larger battles and much better rules.

In saying that, one bright lad came up with Pocket 40k using Epic scale miniatures, making a metal painted board and having a few small magnets under each model. The result? Basically 40k on a scale small enough to travel with - and incredibly cheap... if you're in it just for the game and not the models

 Morachi wrote:
In saying that, one bright lad came up with Pocket 40k using Epic scale miniatures, making a metal painted board and having a few small magnets under each model.

My brother came up with that about 20 years ago for when we were taking long car trips.

The downside is dice, measurements and templates. It's hard figuring out a good downscale in measurements, which you base the templates off, and the amount of dice needed it just absurd.

Well the system being used is quite highly regarded now - so i'd say its gone through some refinement since then. They've got the measurements and templates worked out. The dice is easy enough to counter with a good dice roller application.

https://sites.google.com/site/pocketw40k/

 -Loki- wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think the main reason people want to play GW games is for larger scale battles of 40k and Fantasy rather than the skirmish based specialist games.

Specialist Games didn't disappear after 6 months because they were unpopular, they disappeared after 6 months because GW took them off the shelves after that. They were never meant to be Core games, and were never meant to sell for longer than that. The fact that communities have sprung up around each and every one of them means people enjoy them more than GW's core games.

Also, by your logic, Epic and Warmaster would be the two Core games. Far, far larger battles and much better rules.

From what I remember in the early 90s the Epic game actually was a "core" game. It received a lot of rules updates, WD articles and had a huge range of miniatures. It wasnt until LotR came along that epic was demoted from core game to specialist game.

It was before that sadly my recommendations are conversions and junk lots. Not using GW tools and primer is also right up there.

Yeah. Epic was one of the three main games that GW had around all the time (that and they sold things like Space Hulk, Tyranid Attack, Battle for Armageddon and Horus Heresy in store). Epic was around for a very long time, even as things like Quest, Necromunda and even Blood Bowl were cycling through.

For GW gaming on a budget.
PLAY a SG!

Free to download rules.

As you can NOT play these superior games in the GW B&M stores,you can use what ever minatures and hobby products you damn well please!And play them at home /garage/club friends house etc.

Loads more fun for much less cash.

Lanrak wrote:
As you can NOT play these superior games in the GW B&M stores,you can use what ever minatures and hobby products you damn well please!And play them at home /garage/club friends house etc.

Oh, I didn't know GW forced you to play Fantasy/40k/LotR in their stores.

This benefit applies to any game ever made ever.

Buy Mantic minis, use them to play GW games.

They are compatible and rather good.

My thing when starting a new army is to start with troops, and buy small. Lots of armies have very little change when a new meta rolls around in troops (Tactical marines and firewarriors are both pretty much timeless.) so I find if something happens and I have to change my list drastically, I usually don't have the problem of wasted models because I bought too quickly.

Scipio reminded me of another way to save money, at least in the sense of saving money over multiple editions sense. Making a custom Space Marine chapter is going to give you an army that is probably never going to be obsolete. You easily have 3-6 codices to choose from. You definitely can use Space Marines, Dark Angels, or Blood Angels as a successor chapter. You can probably pull from Black Templars or Space Wolves, although it's harder to play the successor game from those. Chaos Space Marines are a bit of a stretch, but if you're willing to remove all of the imperial iconography carefully (not just deface it, but simply have clean models without any markings) you can dance through that codex as well with no real problems.

Of course, then you end up joining the MEQ Brigade. We're warm and cuddly though, so that's just fine.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


Other tips?

Bartertown. Trade or stuff discounted. Learn to strip models, metal or plastic and you can pick up stuff cheaply.

 -Loki- wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think the main reason people want to play GW games is for larger scale battles of 40k and Fantasy rather than the skirmish based specialist games.

Specialist Games didn't disappear after 6 months because they were unpopular, they disappeared after 6 months because GW took them off the shelves after that. They were never meant to be Core games, and were never meant to sell for longer than that. The fact that communities have sprung up around each and every one of them means people enjoy them more than GW's core games.

Also, by your logic, Epic and Warmaster would be the two Core games. Far, far larger battles and much better rules.

Err, bit of extrapolation on your part there.

1) I never said the core games were core because they were larger scale. I simply stated I think the main reason people get in to GW games is 40k and Fantasy rather than the specialist games, 40k and Fantasy are larger scale games thus require more miniatures thus tend to be more expensive.

2) I never said they were unpopular in their times. I personally have boxed sets of Epic 40k, Space Hulk and Gorkamorka sitting at my parents' house.

3) Just because communities have sprung up around them doesn't mean "people enjoy them more", it means "certain people enjoy them more" (there's also people who play 2nd edition 40k still, I recently bought a boxed set to play it, doesn't mean "people enjoy it more", just means "some people enjoy it more").

4) My point wasn't that the specialist games are bad games or that there aren't some people that play them, my point was, people tend to complain about GW prices and shy away because they want to play 40k and Fantasy, not the specialist games which aren't even supported by GW anymore. Making the statement "GW gaming on a budget", IMO, you might as well just say "Wargaming on a budget" and point out all the good games which have a low price, seeing as how GW doesn't even support those games and I'm guessing most people who have their hearts set on GW are such inclined because of 40k and Fantasy.

Otherwise it's like you're treating GW gaming as it's own little bubble within the gaming community, where as I think a more accurate thought is that 40k and Fantasy are their own little bubbles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWhex wrote:
From what I remember in the early 90s the Epic game actually was a "core" game. It received a lot of rules updates, WD articles and had a huge range of miniatures. It wasnt until LotR came along that epic was demoted from core game to specialist game.

I don't remember what killed off Epic, I was under the impression that the 3rd edition (released in 97) was not terribly popular and they killed it off. According to wikipedia that edition only existed for 6 months (so it was dead long before LOTR) and according to lexicanum it was killed off due to poor sales. I thought there was a quote from Jervis at one point that he said he thought it was the best ruleset they had made but it was performing poorly and so was relegated to specialist games.

 -Loki- wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think the main reason people want to play GW games is for larger scale battles of 40k and Fantasy rather than the skirmish based specialist games.

Specialist Games didn't disappear after 6 months because they were unpopular, they disappeared after 6 months because GW took them off the shelves after that. They were never meant to be Core games, and were never meant to sell for longer than that. The fact that communities have sprung up around each and every one of them means people enjoy them more than GW's core games.
.

Actually, I think the concept of a 'core' game is a more recent idea. It used to be that you had WFB and 40k take pride of place (always), and then whichever was the most recent other game (not 'specialist games' back then) would get the rest of the store space (depending on the size of store - bigger stores had more range on display)

And I think to an extent people's desires have been channelled into large-model count games - they are simply that much more accessible to the casual fan, who has to dig around a little to a) find the specialist games exist b ) find opponents to play them with. Although, from what I have heard we are lucky they are accessible at all from the GW site; I heard ages ago that the whole caboodle were going to be removed from the website, and we have Jervis Johnson to thank for managing to persuade the upper management to let him take the whole lot under his wing (in addition to his other duties).

I'm sure pirating is the reason the prices are so high and that GW doesn't allow thier miniatures to be sold at online stores. I'm against pirating completely or I'd hold a different opinion when it comes to this one company. I have little respect for their business practices and integrity. They actually suck pretty hard and most of their recent business decisions have been pretty bad. I don't play their TT games with offical GW miniatures strictly for this reason. I love the universe they've created but young adults trying to support this as a hobby who are actually making it on there own.... well they just can't there is no way around it. Playing "specialty games" with 10 units isn't playing 40k. That's a kind of naive suggestion.

It's just not doable, and ebay's armies aren't exactly cheap second hand. Youre talking at least 700$ for an incomplete army of one race. $300 for just a solid number of soldiers and 1 or 2 each fast attack and fire support. You either have to be in to the hobby for a long time, live with mommy and daddy, or make a real solid living to be nnot be neglecting more important things in life and take this as a "serious" hobby that you enjoy and build on,

You aren't getting what you pay for. When I play I only use models I've made from other things. At some point maybe I'll upload my army.

Give Slow Grow leagues a try. Pick an army, start with something around a 500 pt. limit. Get everything painted up and start gaming, learning the rules, and having fun. Then when you're ready, move up to 750 pts, 1000, etc.

jakejackjake wrote:
I'm sure pirating is the reason the prices are so high and that GW doesn't allow thier miniatures to be sold at online stores. I'm against pirating completely or I'd hold a different opinion when it comes to this one company. I have little respect for their business practices and integrity. They actually suck pretty hard and most of their recent business decisions have been pretty bad. I don't play their TT games with offical GW miniatures strictly for this reason. I love the universe they've created but young adults trying to support this as a hobby who are actually making it on there own.... well they just can't there is no way around it. Playing "specialty games" with 10 units isn't playing 40k. That's a kind of naive suggestion.

It's just not doable, and ebay's armies aren't exactly cheap second hand. Youre talking at least 700$ for an incomplete army of one race. $300 for just a solid number of soldiers and 1 or 2 each fast attack and fire support. You either have to be in to the hobby for a long time, live with mommy and daddy, or make a real solid living to be nnot be neglecting more important things in life and take this as a "serious" hobby that you enjoy and build on,

You aren't getting what you pay for. When I play I only use models I've made from other things. At some point maybe I'll upload my army.

Well that just isn't true. Save your money. Don't blow it on stupid gak. Don't be house poor. Don't be car poor. With even the most basic saving strategy, anyone with a full time Job should have no problem.

I had to sit down and think about this myself a couple years back. I was teaching some local kids (age 14-16) how to play. They liked the game, but totally didn't have the money to afford it.

My solutions included:

1,Finding "points-heavy" miniatures. Collecting Deathwing is A LOT cheaper than blob sqaud IG.
2.Scouring ebay/bartertown/forums for great deals. Back a few years ago you could score 5 terminators or a Dreadnought from the Black Reach box set for $15.
3. Rading other people's bits boxes for parts. ( I had a HUGE bits collection and was able to piece together a handful of models for them)
4. 3rd party miniatures. Look around, some are cheap and look surprisingly 40k-ish.
5. Scratchbuild/kitbash. One of the kids I was playing actually made a number of VERY good Ork tank conversions using Army Man Tanks. Once you remove the turret and add ork bits and armor plate you can make very convincing Trucks and looted wagons for just a couple dollars.

I guess for us what has worked.With most of us in our gaming is what we call our gaming allowance.we make good money but we can nt afford to go out and spend big money on models especially having families to support and wives with shiny object syndrome. what we do is usually spend around 50 dollars a month.I buy my stuff monthly and the other players usually spend 25$ bi weekly.Not alotbut it does add up over time.Also give you time to paint in between purchases.As for GW games ovral i think Blood bowl is the cheapest to play.you can pick up a team for around 20$ used and you can not have more than 16 players per team.Download rules for free,heck you can make your own board out of foam core and join the Naf for a set of dice for ten bucks.
Or you can say go bite a big one GW and play 15mm ww2 or any 15mm historical game.,use the flames of rules and some plastic models.were else can you still buy a tank for under 5 dollars.

Also, eBay sellers who parse out sets like Dark Vengeance can get you gaming for cheap. It won't be the most effective army in the world, but the DA half of Dark Vengeance plus another DV tactical squad is a solid, legal force, and that second squad should cost you less than $20.

 Brother SRM wrote:

On top of all that, the rules are free from GW's website and you can download and start playing pretty much immediately. Knowing 40k's rules helps you get a grip on Necromunda's rules, and with the newer ruleset you only need a couple six sided dice and maybe a scatter die.

You know, I keep seeing people saying this about Necromunda, BFG etc, but I have yet to locate these rules on the actual GW site (after checking periodically for a few years now).

Could some kind soul tell me where GW are hiding them? Because they still want me to buy the rules for the specialist games.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1330042_Necromunda_Rulebook.pdf
for starters

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landing.jsp?catId=cat440142a
then go the the "resources" page for each individual game.