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Dan Abnett violated the good Ollanius Pius with a rusty spork. People were mad when Ollanius was retconned to be an Imperial Fists Terminator, and they were even madder when he was retconned to be an Imperial Custode. I was angry too - it ruined the character. But why is no one angry about what Dan Abnett did?

Background

Ollanius Pius was first introduced in the Warhammer 40,000 Compendium with a blurb about who was, and no more than one or two sentences about him. He was an Imperial Guardsmen during the Horus Heresy, and because he has no background, you can safely assume he's an average joe, not like all the Primarchs, Xenos, and Daemons. He saw Horus fighting the Emperor aboard Horus' flagship. And, while everyone else was backing away (including the Custodes, the Imperial Fists, and the Sons of Horus), Ollanius Pius ran ahead to protect his Emperor. Being a mere mortal, he didn't stand a chance. Horus psychically flawed him without a thought.

This says a lot about him. He was just an average joe, and in a world of gods and daemons, he took a stand for what he believed was right. He had no special powers; he wasn't some ultramarine colored Ultramarine who was an ultra awesome marine or abatman marine with electrified claws. Ollanius was just a normal dude, and that's what makes him admirable. He could be described as the embodiment of the Imperial Guard, a mere mortal utterly dedicated to holding the line.

The fanbase latched onto him. For a tiny blurb of fluff from a book that collecting articles from White Dwarf, he was pretty well known. And when he was retconned to be an Imperial Fists Terminator and then a Custode, people were angry, because it took the magic away from him. There's nothing special about a super soldier taking a stand. That's what they're meant to do; that's what they're supposed to do. But most people just chose to ignore that stupid fluff, and continue to view Ollanius as a Guardsman.

The Crime



This is Dan Abnett. He's one of the better 40k writers. I'm a huge fan of Ravenor because, unlike with most 40k books, I genuinely cared about the characters and wanted them to succeed. And after I read the book I still remembered the character's names, which says a lot. By comparison, after reading the Flight of the Eisenstein the only characters I remembered were the ones introduced to me outside of that book. As in Mortarion, Typhus, and Garro. Everyone else I don't remember anything about. Presumably they were members of the Death Guard, because the book was about the Death Guard, but beyond that I don't know.

Now, I'm not saying Dan Abnett violated Ollanius Pius. But would you trust him with a rusty spork around your bumhole? Would you? Think about that while you read the rest of this post.

In Know No Fear, a book by Dan Abnett about a war between Generic Marines™ and Jehovah's Witnesses, Ollanius Pius shows up. I thought this was weird because Ollanius Pius fights on Terra, and Calth (the world the book takes place on) is really far away. In fact, it was so far away that the Ultramarines couldn't reach Terra from Calth. But hey, I don't want to be a fluff Nazi. Besides, transporting one Guardsmen would be easier than transporting a whole Legion of Space Marines, so it is possible that Ollanius reached Terra in time for the fight some how.

But his name of Oll Persson now, and it turns out the new name is just a mix-up. The name was changed for no reason. Now this is a strong indicator of things to come. It shows that Abnett doesn't care too much about the old fluff, and that he can do whatever the feth he likes with the 40k universe. Changing the name alone isn't terrible, but what comes next is.

He's a melon-fething time traveler involved with John Grammaticus, who's lived so many lives that he gets them mixed up. He starts making breakfast for his wife, but then he realized his wife died years ago in a past life. What the feth. It turns out he's a Perpetual or something, like the Emperor according to Grammaticus. And he's the super special chosen one, who has to go to Terra to inspire the Emperor to kill Horus. So he uses sorcery to teleport to Terra.

What the feth.

People complained when he was a Terminator, and they complained when he was a Custode. But this - I can't even fathom this. This is the worst 40k writing since C.S. Goto, legendary for gaking on a typewriter and having it published by Black Library. At least the gak didn't retcon too much stuff. Abnett took the thing that made Ollanius popular - the fact that he was an average joe in a universe full of Gods and Daemons, yet he still took a stand - and he gak on it. Now he's a time traveling sorcerer who knows that he's the chosen one. Marty McFly meets Harry Potter meets Luke Skywalker. But at least those characters were relatable, and they had character arcs. In Know No Fear, Pius doesn't have an arc. Grammaticus talks to him, he walks around for awhile with other survivors, and then he teleports to Terra. He doesn't do much in the book, and because he's a bizarre and thoroughly inactive character, there's no real way to emphasize with him or get involved. He's just there, puttering around, gaking on the fluff.

So, let me get this straight... You're not happy with how Abnett wrote Pius?

 pretre wrote:
So, let me get this straight... You're not happy with how Abnett wrote Pius?

Didn't you read my post? I'm ecstatic with the way he was written!

/sarcasm

I've bitched at length on the retcon concerning Ollanius Pius. It is one of the worst retcons in GW history, and is empirical evidence that Dan Abnett is not, in fact, the best writer of Black Library, for being so mind-numbingly stupid to bring back a beloved obscure background character, and then totally destroy what people liked about him.

Wait that portal he opened led to terra? Thought they didn't actually say where it led in the book.

And i think they're just making him a bit more interesting, i'm not exactly complaining about it though, he's no marine or custodes and still squishy like a reg human, although he's got that respawn skill.

Point in fact, BL writers are slowly adding more perpetuals with the new HH books they're writing, most recent one i think was in betrayer.

Yes, the Highlander sub-plot is something they're pushing rather hard.

And I'm not a fan either, frankly. The whole point of Pious was that he was just some regular joe, making the ultimate sacrifice. It's hard to feel any empathy for the man getting casually crushed by Horus when we all know that he's basically immortal and will respawn a day later anyway.

 Viersche wrote:
Wait that portal he opened led to terra? Thought they didn't actually say where it led in the book.

And i think they're just making him a bit more interesting, i'm not exactly complaining about it though, he's no marine or custodes and still squishy like a reg human, although he's got that respawn skill.

Point in fact, BL writers are slowly adding more perpetuals with the new HH books they're writing, most recent one i think was in betrayer.

I just assumed the portal was to Terra, because he's at Terra to fight Horus later.

The reason I disliked it was because it means Ollanius isn't unique anymore. He was just a regular guy, surrounded by Gods and Daemons, and when everyone else was running away he chose to stand and fight.

But now he's a time traveling sorcerer, and when he dies he comes back to life. He isn't unique anymore. He's just another super-duper unique c00l awesome l33tzorz ultraepic character stuffed into the 40k background. By making him special, Abnett ensured that there was nothing special about him.

Whats next, we find out that Ollanius Pius, has 2 hearts and a sonic screwdriver....

Yet another good reason I avoid BL books.

They're not making him more interesting. Making him this 30,000 year old melon-fether who was one of Jason's frickin' Argonauts (When before he was simply a normal man) is "making him interesting" in the same vein that Stephenie Meyer making Bella inexplicably immune to telepathy in Twilight is. It's a cheap, poor example of bad writing.

It seems the HH is no place for anything other than super beings 10'+ gene spliced super soldiers, and immortal toss heads, there is no room for a common man making a uncommon sacrifice, they just need to stand back and grovel in awe at all the epicness.

Gimme 40k anytime..30k was far to silly.

The amount of butthurtness in this thread is unbelievable.

Complain all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that the original story of Pius made no frakking sense whatsoever.

. The book is generic marines vs Jehovah's witnesses. You are right, it isn't Ravenor. Dan Abnett doesn't need to care ; he was not writing Gaunt or Ravenor and you were not reading them, you were reading a piece of merchandise because it satisfies an impulse to see some trademarks in print a few hundred times.

This was not a retcon of Ollanius Pius, because the original material still exists and the retcon was written by a different author for a mercenary purpose. That book has no creative standing against the compendium that was written as at least a somewhat autocthonous creative work.

Dan Abnett is the best author writing almost anywhere and I read Horus Heresy books only because I like reading his books. None of the other books come even close to interesting me because they are not by good authors. I did read the First Heretic.

Abnett is following the BL's overall plan for the Heresy books, he was probably told to write in Pius as one of the peptuals

Although I like the original fluff it would make more sense for Pius to be a highlander as The big E would still see him as the regular Joe throwing himself in the way but Pius having prior knowledge and experiences that probably let him keep his sanity aboard Horus's ship

Redcruisair wrote:The amount of butthurtness in this thread is unbelievable.

Complain all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that the original story of Pius made no frakking sense whatsoever.

There is an old Chinese saying that still rings true today.

"The man who whines about the butthurt: He is the most butthurt of all."

On a side note, how does the story not make sense? It's pretty simple. In fact, I could explain it in one sentence: When Horus fought the Emperor, a Guardsman named Ollanius Pius was the only man who stood by the Emperor's side, and Ollanius was killed trying to defend him. It seemed like it would be a hard story for Abnett to feth up, but he managed it.

pelicaniforce wrote:
. The book is generic marines vs Jehovah's witnesses. You are right, it isn't Ravenor. Dan Abnett doesn't need to care ; he was not writing Gaunt or Ravenor and you were not reading them, you were reading a piece of merchandise because it satisfies an impulse to see some trademarks in print a few hundred times.

This was not a retcon of Ollanius Pius, because the original material still exists and the retcon was written by a different author for a mercenary purpose. That book has no creative standing against the compendium that was written as at least a somewhat autocthonous creative work.

Dan Abnett is the best author writing almost anywhere and I read Horus Heresy books only because I like reading his books. None of the other books come even close to interesting me because they are not by good authors. I did read the First Heretic.

Well this is just being an Abnett apologist. While Abnett "not needing to care" might technically be true, it does not absolve him from criticism. How is it any different from Gaunt's Ghosts? What about Gaunt's Ghosts makes critique of the work acceptable, but critique of the HH series unacceptable?

Well actually yes it was. Much like how the 5e Necron codex was a retcon of the 3e Necron codex, despite the original work still existing, and the retcon being written by a different author. This is the new fluff, and as new fluff, it is expected for it to be evaluated for its literary merits. Of which Abnett's little retcon has little.

Dan Abnett is only debatably the best writer for BL, much less "anywhere".

I had not ever heard of these perpetuals before this thread. Now that I have, I shall do my best to forget it. Well, it fits my perception that HH books are the worst thing that has ever happened to 40K fluff, somehow even managing to be sillier than Ward.

Gaunt is an original work and experienced on its own merits. Heresy books are read because they are red toys fighting blue toys. Dan Abnett invented conceived of Gaunt as a singular creation, Dan Abnett wrote Fear to Tread because somebody had to crank out four hundred pages about Calth.

The same with the Compendium. When you like Warhammer, you are not thinking of something that originated in a sixth edition codex, you are thinking of something that originated in the oeuvre of Rick Priestley and Bryan Anselm that the Warhammer Compendium is part of. Fear to Tread and the Necron codexes play no part at all in the existence of the setting., they just make money.

They used to call them Sensei. Sometimes they called them the Illuminati. Having Highlanders of some kind or another in the 40K universe is not new, nor is it an invention of the HH series.

Guess what, folks? There's no canon in 40K. What Abnett did or did not write has no bearing on anything. If you want Pius to be a regular Joe, you can keep on with him being a regular Joe.

 Psienesis wrote:
They used to call them Sensei. Sometimes they called them the Illuminati. Having Highlanders of some kind or another in the 40K universe is not new, nor is it an invention of the HH series.

Oh, I know of Sensei*, is that what these Perpetuals are supposed to be? Is Ollanius now a descendant of the Emperor?

(*I never much liked them either, and I thought the idea was buried and forgotten a long time ago.)

Possibly. As I noted, this isn't the first time Highlander-like entities have existed in the 40K fluff. This is basically just a new name slapped on a recurring theme,

pelicaniforce wrote:
Gaunt is an original work and experienced on its own merits. Heresy books are read because they are red toys fighting blue toys. Dan Abnett invented conceived of Gaunt as a singular creation, Dan Abnett wrote Fear to Tread because somebody had to crank out four hundred pages about Calth.

The same with the Compendium. When you like Warhammer, you are not thinking of something that originated in a sixth edition codex, you are thinking of something that originated in the oeuvre of Rick Priestley and Bryan Anselm that the Warhammer Compendium is part of. Fear to Tread and the Necron codexes play no part at all in the existence of the setting., they just make money.

I'm not sure if you realize how nonsensical your point is.

You seem to believe that Gaunt being an "original" (I use this term very loosely, since it is largely a collection of action movie clichés)but Heresy era books being books about pre-established factions fighting pre-established factions, inherently makes them solely money-making machines, rather than, say, the works of an author trying to tell an interesting story? That's a very insulting opinion towards the authors of the books, including Abnett, but I suppose you are entitled to it.

But what amuses me is that you lump the Necrons into the same place, despite also being an "original work", in terms of introducing a new faction, though no it was not a novel. Yet it is on about the same level to you?

Of course they play a part in the existence of the setting (The book is Know No Fear by the way), the Heresy era books being used to further elaborate (In some cases rewrite, like this instance) long-established pieces of background.

No work of fiction is immune to criticism. Abnett had an instance of gakky writing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
Guess what, folks? There's no canon in 40K. What Abnett did or did not write has no bearing on anything.

You know, except for the novels that are going to follow Know No Fear. It has a lot of bearing on those.

Only if you're accepting the contents of those novels into your "personal 40K canon". Otherwise? Doesn't matter.

 Psienesis wrote:
Only if you're accepting the contents of those novels into your "personal 40K canon". Otherwise? Doesn't matter.

"Personal 40k canon" is a marketing ploy and a lie.

I don't have the luxury to ignore the Newcrons because every work from now on has used and will use them as the model for their fluff.

And for someone who does read the Horus Heresy as a series, yes, this change does, in fact, matter, regardless of your opinions on 40k's canon "as a whole".

If you're walking into a series of novels with preconceived notions of how things in the novels should "work" then you might be in for some surprises. I liken this to the shock amongst fantasy fiction fans who read the first book of A Song of Ice and Fire and learned that the "good guy" doesn't always win, and, sometimes, there are no last-second rescues (which is a lesson that plays out several times throughout the series).

This plays out in other fandoms, too, though. I remember people being pissy when it turned out that Boba Fett was the clone of his New Zealander dad. This was a character that, on screen, had maybe 5 lines of dialogue and was entirely faceless, and had less than 15 minutes of total screen-time over 2 films, and then died in one. People had based an entire mythology around this character on nothing but personal fantasies and viewer-projection.

.... also, animated Boba from the Holiday Special doesn't count. *hand wave* This isn't the television special you're looking for.

That Pius was a regular Joe in previous tellings of this story is fine, but it doesn't really change anything, he still does the one thing he's really famous for and that's it, he dies and whether or not he respawns is irrelevant. Also, considering that the HH series may be a "sorta what really happened" explanation of stories already existing as myths and legends in the 40K continuity, it is also possible that it can be explained as Pius being believed to have been a regular Joe, thousands of years after the fact, when he really wasn't.

Im alright if they want to throw a few things like that in, I understand alot of people have emotional attachment to different things, models, fluff for their own reasons. Im lucky enough to not get to attached, and if more depth is added, im ok.

I do believe by and large though that the HH novels dont get enough credit. Overall they have done a very good job, and if it wasnt for the novels I wouldnt be playing the tabletop game again. So I do have some personal attachment. I think all the authors (some more then others) do a good job making superhuman beings like Primarchs and Space Marines relatable on a certain level, and creating a vivid setting.

And yeah, I also believe that theyre going to do the whole "sensei" thing, to move onward to the next step in history of 40K, so that why I believe they changed it up to Oll Persson.

What can you do, GW does what GW wants.

 Psienesis wrote:
If you're walking into a series of novels with preconceived notions of how things in the novels should "work" then you might be in for some surprises. I liken this to the shock amongst fantasy fiction fans who read the first book of A Song of Ice and Fire and learned that the "good guy" doesn't always win, and, sometimes, there are no last-second rescues (which is a lesson that plays out several times throughout the series).

This plays out in other fandoms, too, though. I remember people being pissy when it turned out that Boba Fett was the clone of his New Zealander dad. This was a character that, on screen, had maybe 5 lines of dialogue and was entirely faceless, and had less than 15 minutes of total screen-time over 2 films, and then died in one. People had based an entire mythology around this character on nothing but personal fantasies and viewer-projection.

.... also, animated Boba from the Holiday Special doesn't count. *hand wave* This isn't the television special you're looking for.

That Pius was a regular Joe in previous tellings of this story is fine, but it doesn't really change anything, he still does the one thing he's really famous for and that's it, he dies and whether or not he respawns is irrelevant. Also, considering that the HH series may be a "sorta what really happened" explanation of stories already existing as myths and legends in the 40K continuity, it is also possible that it can be explained as Pius being believed to have been a regular Joe, thousands of years after the fact, when he really wasn't.

I walk into novels and expect (Well, more like hope) they'll be good. Know No Fear qualified on most regards. Ollanius' rendition in the book? Less-so.

Boba wasn't a thematically relevant and inspiring character. Him being a regular joe was the predominant factor in his story that made it good to begin with. With that taking away, who really gives a gak about him, lol? He's just another thirty thousand year old reincarnating immortal sorcerer now, rather than what could have once been called the spiritual face of humanity (The Emperor serves as this in-story, but thematically, none represented the struggle of the common Imperial more than Pius).

It being capable of being handwaved away doesn't make it good. It still is bad writing.

 LoneLictor wrote:
But would you trust him with a rusty spork around your bumhole? Would you? Think about that while you read the rest of this post.

It would NOT occur to me to trust ANYONE with a rusty spork around my bumhole.

Anyway, I find retcons to be annoying if they are not needed but they dont make me angry. As an example, the Space Wolves were not originally from Fenris per the First Book of the Astronomican, but that retcon hardly matters since it is so obscure. The first and second edition Orks were just too silly so retconning a lot of Ork stuff was needed.

As far as Ollie goes, he was already retconned twice from IG, to terminator to custodes so I geuss he is already ruined before Abnett changes him again. Abnett still does a terrible job with his own retcon, though, no denying that.

Also, the sensei were immortal up until the point something killed them. There is nothing in their original background that suggests they would be repeatedly reincarnated.

 Redcruisair wrote:
Complain all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that the original story of Pius made no frakking sense whatsoever.

I agree. And I guess I never took the story to be "fact" anyway. To me, it was just a Guardsman's tall tale that grew up in the 10,000-year meantime. I thought the point of Abnett's "retcon" (and I don't think it really qualifies as a retcon) is to show that truth is stranger than myth.

This is one of the cases where I happily ignore parts of the canon. It's much more inspiring to remember Pius as a regular ole guardsman.

I really don't enjoy all the Sensei, Illuminati, Perpetual, "Highlander", Grammaticus (though I like the Cabal and Alpha Legion bits) stuff, just muddles the timeline up. I like the idea of the events of the 30k's being folk-loric to an extent. The more that gets explained about things in the HH the more the myth and majesty gets eroded. I feel like we know too much about the Emperor for example.

I'm not defending Abnett in particular (though I do have a man-crush on him), but what's interesting to me was that I always assumed that the Ollanius Pius storyline was fundamentally propaganda. I never assumed that he was actually a real Imperial Guardsman who somehow survived the hellish assault on the flagship of Horus to blink his flashlight at Horus himself. I mean, for feth's sake his last name is PIUS, which I always assumed was a deliberate nod to 'pious' and the whole burgeoning Imperial cult.

I mean, it sounds like the type of story that they would indoctrinate Imperial Guardsmen with: You too, like Ollanius Pius, can make a difference even though you are just a lone man fighting against monsters.

I mean, I thought the story was awesome, and a great piece of 40K background, but I NEVER, ever assumed that it was an actual description of real events during the battle.

So when Abnett introduces this Oll Persson, I was really impressed. I just assumed he was taking the old stories about the Starchildren/Sensei and reinterpreting them, and also deliberately bringing up what had become an obscure piece of Imperial Lore, Ollanius Pius. I just assumed that instead of this being an Imperial Propaganda story, that Persson was actually the 'real person' who the later moralistic fable about Ollanius Pius was written. Heck, I could have seen the whole thing as a deliberate move by the Sensei to 'seed' this important moment in Imperial history with this very basic, very fundamental 'story hook' to help shift the Imperium from the Imperial Truth to the Imperial Creed.

I'm not saying that your interpretation of it was wrong. I don't have any evidence to present for that. I just didn't even consider that people read the original Ollanius Pius story as actually a factual retelling of events. It always seemed like a morality play to me, so I was able to read Abnett as investing what had been a transparent morality play with a kernel of potential truth. It's weird how two different perspectives on the one piece of fluff can make one person see Abnett as a shameless hack, and another see him as a clever writer.

On the other hand, I could be missing something. Is there something out there to firmly establish the Ollanius Pius narrative as firmly grounded in 'factual" 40K historical events, rather than being viewable as potentially mythic, like Russ returning at 'the Wolftime?"