Switch Theme:

Battle of the Deathstars (Battle Report Links on p.1, Bonus #8 - Pinkstar vs Taudar - p.17)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Poll
Who is the best deathstar? Who will win the tournament?
Pinkstar Daemons
Farsight Tau
Draigowing Grey Knights
Seer Council Eldar/Dark Eldar (Deldar)
Other. (Please provide list for Deathstar no more than 1K in points).

View results
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA



Game #5 - Seer Council Deldar vs Pinkstar Horrors - posted on p. 6.


Will get to comment responses a little later.


Coming up next....the Finale: Game #6 - Seer Council vs Farsight Tau.


Stay tuned.....




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 djones520 wrote:
Well... that was silly.

I really hope you do a rematch on that.

There is a Bonus Deathmatch that I played against my Deldar opponent.

And that Bonus Deathmatch may be a rematch.


Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Well, Fortune is literally the only thing keeping the Seer Council useful/relevant.

Without it, they're terribad.


They're still not bad...though way overpriced without Fortune.

Ok, ok....so they are terribad without it.


 motyak wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
Well... that was silly.

I really hope you do a rematch on that.


That's what you are bound to get though, when so many of the deathstars rely on psychic powers to survive/inflict maximum damage. A lot more swing than there otherwise would be

Yeah, these deathstars have the potential to cripple with their alpha-strikes, especially when they can strike you when you are at your weakest (i.e. before you get a chance to use defensive powers or when your powers get negated).


 Dash2021 wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Well, Fortune is literally the only thing keeping the Seer Council useful/relevant.

Without it, they're terribad.


+1

As much as I hate it when people call out flukes.... this was a fluke. I don't think the Deldar Council has a great chance against draigowing, but it shouldn't be a one sided route like this. Coteaz getting off misfortune through warding and a 4+ DtW on top of a 5" assault move by the council is a very lopsided turn of dice. Like I said, I don't expect them to win this fight handily, but that wasn't even a fight.

As far as Tau go, I think if Deldar get in combat they have a very good chance of winning. Baron's I 7 (after enhance) vs Farsights I5 means Tau can't rely on H&R. One turn of lost shooting is going to hurt them bad. Against Pinkstar.....turbo boost around and let RoW kill the entire army. Assuming they don't just ignore it and murder the entire council in one turn of shooting

As to the other deathstars: who cares? Deldar or GTFO.

Don't worry. Deldar wll get a chance at redemption.

With regards to H&R, it isn't an initiative roll-off between the 2 units, I don't think. Rather, it is just an Initiative test for the unit. Thus, both units will only fail if they roll a 6.

As for the other deathstars, everyone's going to have a favorite and everyone's going to be rooting for their own deathstar. Frankly, I don't care too much for eldar, though it brings joy to my very core to see them crushed like they did against Draigowing. j.k.!


Theorius wrote:
the barons iniative has nothing to do with hit and run, the test is based on their iniative, going to go double check....

tau should be able to get two turns of shooting before assault (one at max range and one at rapid fire) then they hit and run out and shoot em again!


Honestly, Tau's going to only have 1 turn of shooting. Eldar has enough speed that they can even deploy outside of the threat range of Tau (i.e. 42") and still hit them on T2. Or they could hide behind LOS-blocking terrain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/04 16:02:37



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion






Theorius wrote:
 Dash2021 wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Well, Fortune is literally the only thing keeping the Seer Council useful/relevant.

Without it, they're terribad.


+1

As much as I hate it when people call out flukes.... this was a fluke. I don't think the Deldar Council has a great chance against draigowing, but it shouldn't be a one sided route like this. Coteaz getting off misfortune through warding and a 4+ DtW on top of a 5" assault move by the council is a very lopsided turn of dice. Like I said, I don't expect them to win this fight handily, but that wasn't even a fight.

As far as Tau go, I think if Deldar get in combat they have a very good chance of winning. Baron's I 7 (after enhance) vs Farsights I5 means Tau can't rely on H&R. One turn of lost shooting is going to hurt them bad. Against Pinkstar.....turbo boost around and let RoW kill the entire army. Assuming they don't just ignore it and murder the entire council in one turn of shooting

As to the other deathstars: who cares? Deldar or GTFO.



the barons iniative has nothing to do with hit and run, the test is based on their iniative, going to go double check....

tau should be able to get two turns of shooting before assault (one at max range and one at rapid fire) then they hit and run out and shoot em again!



Sure enough. Not sure where I was thinking it was a roll off. Old rule set perhaps?

Either way I think Deldar are really the only deathstar here with the speed to get into combat with the tau, where they are weakest. That's going to be the only way the tau get taken down.

It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 Red Corsair wrote:
@jy2- the problem with quantifying DS at an arbitrary number like 1000 pts and saying that cheaper DS need to pick up the slack really undermines what a true DS is. I mean think about it, if a DE beast pack or a pinkstar can be valid and deadly at under 700 points, then in some regards they are a more efficient and useful DS. By making an unnaturally high ceiling for some races you completely negate what makes some armies DS awesome.

Now that said, I just think that the efficiency factor needs to be raised but I don't think that you can mitigate it while having an true unbiased showdown. Either you set the cost to high for some races or too low for others. I just wanted to point this factor out.

I do think it would be nice to maybe in the post game thoughts or maybe bracketed int the reports (even later on when your done) to add in the statistical mean so players can see where luck skewed results.

Also good job with the write ups and thanks for the entertainment! My suggestions are only intended to improve your data!

No worries, and thanks for your input.

I kind of look at it as there are "weight classes" for the various deathstars. It is neither a true pure deathstar vs deathstar battle nor is it a David deathstar vs Goliath deathstar (i.e. true deathstar vs mini-star). Rather, it is the largest deathstar you can fit under a "weight class" with some "padding" to get it up to that weight class. In this case, we are looking at the "heavyweight" deathstars at 1K. Smaller deathstars may be more efficient in some cases, but I don't feel it is truly fair to pit a 700-800pt deathstar against a 1K one. Probably 9 out of 10 battles will favor the more massive deathstar due to the extra offense and resiliency you can pack into it....it just becomes much too predictable.

So for the purposes of my battles, I chose to have a points restriction/ceiling as a controlling factor. However, if anyone else would prefer to run a deathstar battle with no points restrictions and based purely on just the deathstar itself, then they are welcome to do their own series of battles. Who knows, it may even make for some more interesting matchups and some epic underdog victories, especially if a 500-pt mini-star can upset a 1K heavyweight deathstar.

It's hard to figure out a statiscal mean for these deahstars. There are just so many variables to take into consideration. My head would probably explode from even attempting to try these calculations. I just go the simple route by using a round-robbin tournament format so that readers can get a glimpse of each specific matchup. These series of battle reports in no means are a definitive proclamation of who is the best. Rather, it gives the readers a glimpse of how each death can potentially perform against another heavyweight deathstar. Honestly, if I wanted a more accurate gauge of how the deathstars would perform, I'd probably have to run each of these battles a hundred times each....and that still may not be enough.


krazykishere wrote:
The greatest vacuum deathstar isn't here. The nob biker deathstar.

Oh, you will see them in action. I've already got a couple of Bonus Deathmatches against the nob bikers.


 Blaggard wrote:
Could try some abhuman fun:
Azreal, Ezekial, Yarrick, 10* Ogryns

Get Mind Worm and 2 rolls on Divination, hope for something useful & Prescience. Put Yarrick up front to re-roll successful wounds on majority T5. LOS to either the guys with 2+ or 4++ on the W3 ogryns.
Very slow and HQ heavy but should do something if they get into range.

Sorry, but I don't think this deathstar is viable.

It lacks mobility and I am dubious of its offensive capabilities against 2+ save models or models with re-rollable saves.




6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
They're still very strong in Relic missions and used to be stronger with the old wound allocation rules, since you could take 10-12 wounds and not lose a single model.

I'm not sure what Coteaz brings to the table? My list would be GM, Psychotroke, Psycannon, Allied OM Inq, Psycannon and lvl 1 Prescience, and 10x Pal with 4 Psycannon and BB.

They're not the strongest of the Deathstars any more though.

I was actually considering that unit as well. 6 psycannons in the unit....hell yeah!!! However, I was not willing to give up Coteaz in order to do so. Coteaz is such a huge force-multiplier with 2 psychic powers. With Precognition, Misfortune or Perfect Timing, he makes the paladins just so much better (BTW, precognition is the only way they can get re-rollable 2+ saves in the army). Being a Lvl 2 psyker means he has a better chance to Deny some psychic powers. His hammer could also prove useful in battle and finally, I've Been Expecting could be a game changer. The only guy I would probably swap out Coteaz for is a Lvl 2/3 GK librarian and only if we are talking about super-heavyweight deathstars (i.e. deathstars over 1K).


Looking forward to it! I forgot to bring the camera to record my Deathstar games sadly. I just realise the Farsight bomb is completely reliant on cover saves, as they don't have any Invulns on their suits.

The Scout move has won me so many games by catching opponents completely off guard. If I was playing Tau I'd deploy well at the back to limit the Ravenwing threat range on turn one. (which, granted, is still enormous).

Endurance is huge for RW as the FNP and It Will Not Die on 3 characters (one with 4 wounds) is very strong, also considering the other units don't have Toughness reduction tech other than Enfeeble. Relentless also allows Azrael to rapid fire his Blinding combi-plasma and still assault.

If I'd grade the Ravenstar it would be

Mobility: A-
Not quite as fast as the Seer Council, but still extremely mobile with 12" scout and 24" turboboost range. Also all bike models ignore terrain and dangerous terrain tests with Skilled Rider.

Shooting: A-
Second shootiest Deathstar after the Farsight bomb, but with more tricks. Rad Grenades reduce Toughness by 1, and Stasis can reduce your Initiative by one for I2-3 Blind tests.
Can put out up to 18 twin-linked Plasma shots, with Blind. Can get ignores cover from Diviniation. Can get Null Zone from Sevrin Loth.

Assault: A+
Probably the strongest assault Deathstar in the list, possibly even stronger than the Bloodcrushers. Blind/ Invisibility means most enemies will be fighting them at WS1, and at -1 WS -1 Initiative. Azrael taking the Furious Charge trait means the Black Knights put out 40 Str 6 Rending attacks with 7-10 Str 4 Hammer of Wrath; Azrael puts out 6 Str 7 ap 3 I5 attacks, Loth puts out 6-9 Str 5-9 Ap 2 attacks with Warp Speed and Iron Arm, and Librarian puts out 4 Str 7 Ap 3 Blind attacks on the charge. Lib can get Prescience for re-rolls. Most importantly, Hit and run at I5 means they can disengage, shoot, and charge you again.

Defense: B+
Hugely dependent on cover saves, especially rolling Invisibility for a 2+ cover save. Otherwise, 3+ with 4++ at T5 and 5+ Feel No Pain. Azrael can tank in front with a 2+, 4++ and Sevrin Loth can also tank with a 2++.
No easy access to rerolls. Probably second most squishy Deathstar after the Palstar.

Psychic: A-
Sevrin allows access to all the powers of a single discipline, or Rulebook SM powers, so the element of chance is much reduced. May pick and choose powers to suit situation: Endurance, Enfeeble and Haemorrage during the shooting turns, Warp Speed, Iron Arm and 2++ during assault, or GoI for mobility. ML3 for 5+/4+ DTW.

The only problem with the Ravenstar is that I would never field it in a normal game, because MSU Black Knights is far more effective and nobody plays with Deathstars in my meta anyway.

Thanks for the Analysis. I'll make sure to include it when I do my battle report between the Ravenstar vs the Farsight Bomb.


Theorius wrote:
how does azrael join a biker squad and get to turbo boost 24", i have the book and I dont see where he gets a bike?

i

He can't turbo-boost and doesn't have a bike. Rather, he just walks along at a leisurely 6" pace. The bikes can still turbo, they just need to daisychain themselves with Azrael to keep him in coherency with the unit. It's not a perfect situation but it is still doable.


skyfi wrote:
Also nobody has mentioned what seems to be an ork counter to the tau deathstars cover.. Flashgits!

10 flash gits with every single upgrade, painboy, badruk etc = 595 points.. something like 20 BS2 ignore cover shots with D6-1 Ap and D6+1 Str or some shennanigans.. 27 wounds with both bosses, 31 counting the hull points of wagon. AV14/12/10 with 19" max move per turn... Could very well just end up without a ride, stuck in terrain, out of range and being gunned down.. but IF they got close enough to let off a round of shooting or 2, may make a dent in tau/eldar deathstars

add on ghazgull brings it to 820, then a wagon (riggers, ram, 2 shootas. armor plates might be req'd too.) to 930~

a stock megaboss with BP/cybork is 115 points. Each of the shootier/blasta/mo dakka upgrades are 40 points each (50 if painboy and badrukk have to pay for them too.. which I didn't include costs of)...

megabosses kill ability to run, and overwatch but if you think you're going to get charged on gits, suppose could break both ghazgul and megaboss out of group... (and use them to absorb overwatch for gits if need be)

Hmmm....interesting - a deathstar that may be even more random than the Pinkstar!

Doubt they will win much. Then again, the randomness of the army may surprise you and make for a great upset.


ptlangley wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:


This is a great idea actually! Didn't consider it. You could even place Loth in front with this method to tank all the plasma with 2++. and still be in range to unleash your Perfect Timing/ Rad Grendade/ I-1 Blind/ Rapid Fire Plasma, and Objuration Mechanicum/Vortex of Doom is quite good against the Tau. Losing Enfeeble isn't that bad against Tau, but losing Endurance might be huge though. I was planning to combine it to force a -2T Haemorrage test on the Farsight Bomb (Focused Witchfire means you can pick out that pesky Command systems suit)....


I would only recommend going for GoI against the Tau since there is no way you will get your cover saves. At least for other psychic deathstars they have to get the right psychic power and successfully cast it. Focused witchfire might help but you still have to roll that 5 and under on the psychic test to pick that crisis suit out... not exactly reliable but worth a shot.


Another interesting combination, though it may be for naught if Tau moves into area terrain. I must say, the Ravenstar does have a lot of "tricks".




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Theorius wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:
As above, the rule is written for only bikers in the unit, it doesnt mention non biker models in the unit, RAW it plays like Christopher says it does, only problem would be if he wanted to run loth and azreal as the unit can only move the d6 inches.


ok.....but then what is the point of turbo boosting 6"? you arent getting any cover saves vs the farsight deathstar......

furthermore moving 6" a turn will never get you into combat with the farsight bomb.

In 6th, there is no longer the movement restrictions that they used to have in 5th. Back in 5th, you were limited by the slowest model in the unit in the Movement phase. This is no longer necessarily the case. So if you have an infantry model in a unit of bikers, the infantry can only move 6" whereas the bikers can still move 12". They just need to maintain coherency with the infantry model or he will no longer be a member of the unit.

Then in the Shooting phase, the bikers can still turbo-boost 12" (or 24-36" for jetbikes) even though the infantry cannot. This time, the bikers have to maintain coherency with the infantry model because they cannot leave him behind in the Shooting phase (that can only be done in the Movement phase).

You would normally turbo-boost to get closer to the enemy for assault or to get into shooting range. In this case, the turbo-boost cover is moot because the unit is already gettting 4++ from Azrael (unless you've also got Stealth or Shrouded going on to help boost up cover saves).


skyfi wrote:
Theorius wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:
As above, the rule is written for only bikers in the unit, it doesnt mention non biker models in the unit, RAW it plays like Christopher says it does, only problem would be if he wanted to run loth and azreal as the unit can only move the d6 inches.


ok.....but then what is the point of turbo boosting 6"? you arent getting any cover saves vs the farsight deathstar......

furthermore moving 6" a turn will never get you into combat with the farsight bomb.



you don't run the infantry, they stay put in shooting phase and bikes turbo boost but the back ones lag behind to keep the infantry in coherency.

a slingshot of sorts

Correct. Turbo-boosting is mainly to give you more "reach".


roxor08 wrote:

Thanks jy2 I totally missed it. It's is such a great thread, sometimes to get to the reports I skip some of te comments...I think you're right I guess I was just grasping at straws.

Tyranids are definitely a synergistic army and can't rely on a single unit to pull all the weight. Thanks for the response!

No worries and you're welcome.

Yeah, tyranids definitely function better as a whole (army) than in parts (isolated deathstar).


 brassangel wrote:

Of course, if it were an "Arena of Death" style Deathstar tournament, where each unit begins in CC, no one has the charge advantage, etc., the Swarmlord, TG + Prime unit is one of the best.

Yeah, it'll be much different in such an environment where the tyranid deathstars are already in battle. Swarmy is just one of the best in combat.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/04 17:56:32



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

SBG wrote:
I have always liked a 3 pack of Carnifexes with TL devourers, with a pair of Primes armed with deathspitters, whips and swords. Give everything adrenal glands and toxin sacs, and LOS to your heart's content. Points should be in the 800 to 850 range, a little more if bioplasma is taken.

What's that, 36 tl s6 shots, 6 s5 bs4 shots, two instant death ignores armour high initiative cc weapons, 3 I10 s9 HOW hits, and 15 S10 (on the charge) ap2 low initiative hits.

I think it'd be pretty effective, but rerollable saves might still beat it. It's quite the beatstick, if a bit slow.

A semi-viable deathstar with some shooting, some assault capabilities and some resiliency. However, it isn't great in any and will be a mediocre deathstar at best. This deathstar just cannot handle any of the true deathstars on my list.


 bennyboy6189 wrote:
Loving all the battle reports, but i feel the original draigo list was better as you need the tank in the front to survive and also draigo may have stood a chance vs the LOC.

Draigo
Inquisitor, Pysker lvl 1, Ulumeathi plasma syphon, combi melta
10 paladins, 4 Psycannons, 3 Hammers, Warding stave

This would be my take on the draigo deathstar as its main weakness is ap2 spam like plasma and also you still get the prescience, also the warding staves thrown in for more survivability.

Interesting Draigowing build. I've never even considered the plasma syphon! It may actually do better in these series of battles, though I still prefer the shooty paladinstar as a better TAC deathstar build.


 portugus wrote:
I love these reports, I would really like to see an IG Deathstar when you get the time. Looking forward to seeing Eldar die!

Got any list in mind? I'm hard pressed to find an IG deathstar army that I truly like. They just don't do deathstars well IMO and I can't really think up one that will do well against any of the deathstars here on my list.


MarkyMark wrote:
 Salacious Greed wrote:
First: Let me say, great games so far, been interesting to see them play out.

Second: A few questions though on your methodology.

1. You keep pointing out that instead of DeathStars, some people are bringing up Army lists, which I agree. But in your GK vs PinkStar, you didn't really run the PinkStar as a Star. If it was a DS, wouldn't the LOC have to be IN the DS, otherwise you're running a mini-army by not having it as part of the Star. Just trying to parse what we effectively consider a DS, and what's not.

2. While this is a great thread, and you are producing great matchups, you're really only providing one-offs for us (the readers), and not really showing which DS is better. It would be much more boring, but I think to show which DS is statistically the best, you'd have to approximate average rolls (3.5 for 1d6[being a 3 or 4 on a rotating basis], a 7 for 2d6, 10.5 for 3d6, etc.). You're really incorporating the luck factor into these matchups, which you've pointed out multiple times to likely determining the winner. Also, I think knowledge of using the DS and generalship are also in play here, and thus not giving a true measure of the actual DS.

I'm just asking, as I see so many people throwing so many hats into the ring, and want to know where the majority stands. Thanks! Great stuff as always JY2.


This idea was borne from using the pinkstar/horrorbomb. The LoC was added in to enable the use of more expensive deathstars.

2. Luck is a factor in all games, if you want to mathhammer averages in anyone can do that, it doesnt need a entry in bat reps (more tactics). There is no acutal measurement of a deathstar as you pointed out it is down to the general and to the opponent on how he counters any deathstar, that is a impossible to answer question and something that cannot be attained in a bat rep. This isnt (I think, excuse for me for putting words in your mouth Jy2) a test to see make each deathstar a paper rock scissors (i,e Tau ALWAYS beats paladins, Pinkstar Always beats palandins etc) it is a interesting read up on Jy2's tactics and experince of deathstars and other peoples.

Bat Reps really is not the place for math hammer as there are real life people rolling dice here.

And that too!


 Lt. Coldfire wrote:
Some math hammer would be cool, but I think jy2 already has his work cut out for him by playing all these games and writing up the battle reports. Asking for some math hammer on top of all that is a bit demanding.
That's where I stand

Right. While sometimes I do do some mathhammer on occasion, those are usually for isolated events (i.e. perhaps for 1 turn of shooting or assault). To mathhammer out a complete battle and also account for all the variables is too prodigious an undertaking, especially when I have to play the many battles in this thread and write them up as well. I'm dedicated, but not that dedicated.




6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine




North Carolina

 jy2 wrote:

Another interesting combination, though it may be for naught if Tau moves into area terrain. I must say, the Ravenstar does have a lot of "tricks".


Potentially having Misfortune or Perfect timing and at the very least you have the Auspex to knock the cover save down to no better than a 3++... lots of tricks!
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

In my test game between the Ravenstar vs Tau, they got Perfect Timing....and they went 1st! That is a scary prospect for Tau indeed.



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






Hmm, that's exactly what happened in my Ravenstar vs Pinkstar match. Winged DP strayed too far in front, got grounded and charged, and then turbo-boosted in to wipe out the Daemons in close combat.

I must say you were taking helluva lot of perils though. like what 6-7?

Once the Pinkstar in CC, against an opponent with hit and run, they're pretty much boned.

Also, did you roll the Blue horror effect? I find people tend to forget (that and the LoC's staff effect.)



Mechanicus
Ravenwing
Deathwing

Check out my Mechanicus Project here... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/570849.page 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 djones520 wrote:
Well... that was silly.

I really hope you do a rematch on that.

Ok, because you guys asked, I will deliver.

This is the Bonus Mystery Deathmatch (and the 4th game) that we played on that day.


Bonus Deathmatch #3

1000 Rematch - Paladinstar Grey Knights vs Seer Council Deldar Part II

Because the first matchup between the 2 (battle report on p. 6) happened so quickly, I decided to give Grant a chance for redemption. He demanded a rematch and I was happy to go kick some more eldar a$$ again....I mean, to oblige.


Battle report will be up on p. 8 later tonight.




6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Bay Area

 jy2 wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
Well... that was silly.

I really hope you do a rematch on that.

Ok, because you guys asked, I will deliver.

This is the Bonus Mystery Deathmatch (and the 4th game) that we played on that day.


Bonus Deathmatch #3

1000 Rematch - Paladinstar Grey Knights vs Seer Council Deldar Part II

Because the first matchup between the 2 (battle report on p. 6) happened so quickly, I decided to give Grant a chance for redemption. He demanded a rematch and I was happy to go kick some more eldar a$$ again....I mean, to oblige.


Battle report will be up on p. 8 later tonight.




What happened to the deldar vs farsun?

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA


Bonus Deathmatch #3 - Deldar vs Grey Knights - completed on p. 8.


Theorius wrote:

What happened to the deldar vs farsun?

Good things come to those who wait.

Patience is a virtue.

Yadda yadda yadda....


It'll be up tomorrow....after 1 more bonus deathmatch.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/05 03:42:53



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Hellion Hitting and Running






Could you please post links to each of the matches on the first post. It has become very hard to figure out where the matches and bonus matches are.
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





Fort Wayne, IN

Yikes! Just goes to show how poorly Eldar operate without their psychic powers. At this point, I'm not even certain I would consider them a deathstar anymore - to me, it seems, a deathstar shouldn't be so heavily reliant on psychic powers to assure victory.

Hey, you know what deathstar doesn't need psychic powers to function well? Nob Bikers.....

DT:80+S++G++M--B--IPw40k11+D+A+++/cWD-R+++T(D)DM+
8000, mostly painted
14000, all over the place 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

Hilarious, that rematch...

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in nl
Confessor Of Sins






PrinceOfMadness wrote:
Yikes! Just goes to show how poorly Eldar operate without their psychic powers. At this point, I'm not even certain I would consider them a deathstar anymore - to me, it seems, a deathstar shouldn't be so heavily reliant on psychic powers to assure victory.

Hey, you know what deathstar doesn't need psychic powers to function well? Nob Bikers.....


Eldar basically need to go first and have the right powers while their opponents don't... that's a lot to hope for!

Cratfworld Alaitoc (Gallery)
Order of the Red Mantle (Gallery)
Grand (little) Army of Chaos, now painting! (Blog
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Oklahoma City

stinkin pointy ears had it comin, twice.

Whats the next bonus match jy2?



http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/472615.page#4701031 LAND HOOOOOOO! my freeboota blog (can look me up on the-waaagh and da warpath same username)... Currently in the the midst of adventure into night goblin squig cult



hi daoc friends this is beeyawnsay c: 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gothenburg

Nice to see a rematch.

Btw, what a sad affair the codexes have become relative to fluff. The so called deamon "hunters" got massacred by deamons not even standing a chance while the eldar who are afraid of deamons slaughter them like there is no tomorrow.

Maybe have a rematch of the deamon "hunters" and deamons as well?


Salamanders W-78 D-55 L-22
Pure Grey Knights W-18 D-10 L-5
Orks W-9 D-6 L-14
 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

Ok... your Deldar player needs to learn to use deployment to his advantage. With Eldar's speed there is no need to deploy them as close as possible to the Grey Knights. And taking Telekinisis was just a horrible horrible idea...

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





 Pyriel- wrote:
Nice to see a rematch.

Btw, what a sad affair the codexes have become relative to fluff. The so called deamon "hunters" got massacred by deamons not even standing a chance while the eldar who are afraid of deamons slaughter them like there is no tomorrow.

Maybe have a rematch of the deamon "hunters" and deamons as well?

That is pretty amusing. Deamons really do have all the right tools to deal with Grey Knights. GKS do have warp quake, but now that you're not required to DS it makes Deamons/GK match up much more favorable to the Deamons.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 lambsandlions wrote:
Could you please post links to each of the matches on the first post. It has become very hard to figure out where the matches and bonus matches are.

Sure!


PrinceOfMadness wrote:
Yikes! Just goes to show how poorly Eldar operate without their psychic powers. At this point, I'm not even certain I would consider them a deathstar anymore - to me, it seems, a deathstar shouldn't be so heavily reliant on psychic powers to assure victory.

Hey, you know what deathstar doesn't need psychic powers to function well? Nob Bikers.....

Yeah. It's interesting how Eldar is even more reliant on psychic powers than the psychic-heavy Pinkstar.

And while nob bikers aren't reliant on psychic powers, they sure are vulnerable to them.


 motyak wrote:
Hilarious, that rematch...

We both actually had a good laugh after the game.....my opponent in incredulity and me for the sheer hilarity.


 Shandara wrote:
PrinceOfMadness wrote:
Yikes! Just goes to show how poorly Eldar operate without their psychic powers. At this point, I'm not even certain I would consider them a deathstar anymore - to me, it seems, a deathstar shouldn't be so heavily reliant on psychic powers to assure victory.

Hey, you know what deathstar doesn't need psychic powers to function well? Nob Bikers.....


Eldar basically need to go first and have the right powers while their opponents don't... that's a lot to hope for!

They don't necessarily have to go first as they can always deploy outside of the opponent's threat range or behind LOS-blocking terrain. However, it just hurts when you get caught with your pants down (i.e. initiative stolen).


skyfi wrote:
stinkin pointy ears had it comin, twice.

Whats the next bonus match jy2?



Nob bikers.


 Pyriel- wrote:
Nice to see a rematch.

Btw, what a sad affair the codexes have become relative to fluff. The so called deamon "hunters" got massacred by deamons not even standing a chance while the eldar who are afraid of deamons slaughter them like there is no tomorrow.

Maybe have a rematch of the deamon "hunters" and deamons as well?


Perhaps. There's a Pinkstar vs Farsight rematch that I am planning on and now Paladinstar vs the Pinkstar.

But first, I've got some batreps to put up before doing anymore rematches.


 djones520 wrote:
Ok... your Deldar player needs to learn to use deployment to his advantage. With Eldar's speed there is no need to deploy them as close as possible to the Grey Knights. And taking Telekinisis was just a horrible horrible idea...

It was one of those "what the hell just happened" moments. My opponent just did not plan on or anticipate me seizing the initiative. But if we were to play again, I'm sure he will learn from this game. You can say he was shocked with such disbelief this game that he could only laugh.


 gpfunk wrote:
 Pyriel- wrote:
Nice to see a rematch.

Btw, what a sad affair the codexes have become relative to fluff. The so called deamon "hunters" got massacred by deamons not even standing a chance while the eldar who are afraid of deamons slaughter them like there is no tomorrow.

Maybe have a rematch of the deamon "hunters" and deamons as well?

That is pretty amusing. Deamons really do have all the right tools to deal with Grey Knights. GKS do have warp quake, but now that you're not required to DS it makes Deamons/GK match up much more favorable to the Deamons.

Agreed. The grey knights aren't the horrible matchup that they used to be for daemons. Currently, daemons can IMO hold their own against the knights, even Draigowing.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Hmm, that's exactly what happened in my Ravenstar vs Pinkstar match. Winged DP strayed too far in front, got grounded and charged, and then turbo-boosted in to wipe out the Daemons in close combat.

I must say you were taking helluva lot of perils though. like what 6-7?

Once the Pinkstar in CC, against an opponent with hit and run, they're pretty much boned.

Also, did you roll the Blue horror effect? I find people tend to forget (that and the LoC's staff effect.)



Yeah, that was a lot of perils. That was also to be expected. What I didn't expect was for eldar to make so many saves. He should have probably lost about 4 guys to horror shooting (I did 30+ wounds) but instead lost only 2. Not that the Pinkstar cold win this matchup after losing their Warlord, but it might have been a closer game.

Also, what really hurt was Precision Shots/Strikes. Since each and every Warlock is a character, he could allocate his shots and assault against my Heralds.

I forgot about the Blue Horror effect.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/05 20:35:59



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gothenburg

Agreed. The grey knights aren't the horrible matchup that they used to be for daemons. Currently, daemons can IMO hold their own against the knights, even Draigowing.

That´s an understatement. Deamons massacre GKs like they would be chaos terminators vs grots.


As for eventual rematches I strongly suggest keeping to more average terrain which is 5+ cover with some 4+ ruins sprinkled in and not humongous LOS blocking shoe boxes. That´s just crapping up the balance far to much.

Salamanders W-78 D-55 L-22
Pure Grey Knights W-18 D-10 L-5
Orks W-9 D-6 L-14
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





Having zero LoS blocking terrain is just as bad, however.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Bonus Deathmatch #4 - 1000 Paladinstar Grey Knights vs Ork Nob Bikers


Completed on p. 8.


Coming up tomorrow: Game #6 - Seer Council vs Farsight Tau.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/06 05:42:16



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in gb
Water-Caste Negotiator





Good to see the paladins getting some wins in. Shouldn't the GM be able to auto activate his force weapon with the Banner in the warboss challenge?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

djn wrote:
Good to see the paladins getting some wins in. Shouldn't the GM be able to auto activate his force weapon with the Banner in the warboss challenge?

I don't believe so. I admit that the rules are a little murky, but this is how I think it works. The rules for the Banner says that all models in the unit get +1A. However, for the force activation part, it just says unit and not all models in the unit. Then if you look at the rules for Nemesis Force Weapons, it says that IC's need to activate their force weapons independent of the "unit". So there is some ambiguity there, however, IMO there is nothing in the Brotherhood Banner that overrides how a Nemesis Force Weapon works. In any case, I usually prefer to go for the more conservative intepretation, or the intepretation that gives the unit the least advantage (though that is not always the case).




6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in gb
Water-Caste Negotiator





 jy2 wrote:
djn wrote:
Good to see the paladins getting some wins in. Shouldn't the GM be able to auto activate his force weapon with the Banner in the warboss challenge?

I don't believe so. I admit that the rules are a little murky, but this is how I think it works. The rules for the Banner says that all models in the unit get +1A. However, for the force activation part, it just says unit and not all models in the unit. Then if you look at the rules for Nemesis Force Weapons, it says that IC's need to activate their force weapons independent of the "unit". So there is some ambiguity there, however, IMO there is nothing in the Brotherhood Banner that overrides how a Nemesis Force Weapon works. In any case, I usually prefer to go for the more conservative intepretation, or the intepretation that gives the unit the least advantage (though that is not always the case).




I've just read that in the GK codex. The language used is consistent regarding the activation of nemesis force weapons and the banner so I think your interpretation is correct and I've been playing it wrong for some time!
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





I'm not sure you played those combat rounds correctly - the nobs would still get their 3" pile in to attempt to swing, and if that wasn't enough then (and only then) do you skip all the inits.

The way it reads is you killed off the models in B2B and then skipped all inits. Sorry if I'm misreading.

Also, I'm guessing the bikes Hammer of wrath did nothing?

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Oklahoma City

rigeld2 wrote:
I'm not sure you played those combat rounds correctly - the nobs would still get their 3" pile in to attempt to swing, and if that wasn't enough then (and only then) do you skip all the inits.

The way it reads is you killed off the models in B2B and then skipped all inits. Sorry if I'm misreading.

Also, I'm guessing the bikes Hammer of wrath did nothing?



This is what I was wondering too.

Usually you kill everyone in base to base with knights, then the orks pile in at I3 for big choppas (if any alive, and swing), then the klaw nobs would pile in at i1 and swing (probably through a 2" bubble generated by the BC nobs in b2b). The nobs should of been positioned so the big choppas all in front taking the wounds first and PK's get to swing... It's highly important for us orks with us having a mob of 30 (relatively useless boys vs. an av12/13 dreadnought aside from tarpit) when we have a single model of the 30 capable of damaging the bugger..

I'll reiterate rigeld's sentiment for myself, sorry if I misread or haven't had my coffee (or enough)yet this morning.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 13:28:02


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/472615.page#4701031 LAND HOOOOOOO! my freeboota blog (can look me up on the-waaagh and da warpath same username)... Currently in the the midst of adventure into night goblin squig cult



hi daoc friends this is beeyawnsay c: 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Ah, you forget that I killed the next 2 bikers after his warboss from Overwatch:


The rest of his guys were really far away and my opponent just barely made the charge. My halberds piled into his warboss, who was the only model they could base. After killing his warboss, even with the 3" pile-in move from both deathstars, we couldn't get into base contact.


The photo above is actually after Initiative pile-in and end of combat pile-in. Only then did our guys make it into base with each other.


rigeld2 wrote:

Also, I'm guessing the bikes Hammer of wrath did nothing?

Right. Only 1 guy - his warboss - made it into base contact for HoW.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Pyriel- wrote:
Agreed. The grey knights aren't the horrible matchup that they used to be for daemons. Currently, daemons can IMO hold their own against the knights, even Draigowing.

That´s an understatement. Deamons massacre GKs like they would be chaos terminators vs grots.


As for eventual rematches I strongly suggest keeping to more average terrain which is 5+ cover with some 4+ ruins sprinkled in and not humongous LOS blocking shoe boxes. That´s just crapping up the balance far to much.

I actually had the rematch last night. That's another BR I need to add to the queue.


rigeld2 wrote:
Having zero LoS blocking terrain is just as bad, however.

Yeah, you do need some LOS-blocking terrain in order to make the contests fair. Otherwise, it becomes a turkey-shoot for the more shooty deathstars, especially against the slower armies.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/05/06 14:50:53



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 jy2 wrote:
The photo above is actually after Initiative pile-in and end of combat pile-in. Only then did our guys make it into base with each other.

This is what I missed. Thanks for clarifying.
But didn't it happen twice in the same combat?

jy2 wrote:Force weapons then kill 4 nobs. The rest of his guys cannot fight because now there is no one in base with my paladins.

There's no way that after initiative pile-in and end-of-combat pile-in, then another initiative pile-in (so 9" total) none of those 5 bikers were in b2b.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Battle Reports
Go to: