Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Nah, apparently Throne of Skulls leaves the idea of a GW tourney series still on life support. So the fans can still hump that cadaver, at least.

Warhammer world has loads of events and campaigns on, for what that's worth.

Looking at GW figures over the years....

They tend to waffle through models I like to ones I think look like crap and back to ones that I like.

I do not like the current look of things, but I did like the look of things for WH40K 3e... but 2e had so many silly things that I felt detracted from the game....

Tastes... will never agree - I look at the old Marauder Orc on a Wyvern, and I think that it looks like crap, but I have also heard of folks spending a small fortune to get that figure on E-Bay....

Though I, of course, am the one that is right....

What I really miss are the early multipose plastics - the ones where I could hand a box of bits to my players and tell them to build their characters. When the torso of an Imperial could be glued to the legs of an elf to make a wizard....

Now... pretty much one pose wonders.

The Auld Grump - now the Avatars of War dwarf Berserkers....

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Now... pretty much one pose wonders.

I'll take well designed mono pose characters over hodge podge multipart characters that look like shop window mannequins any day. Those new single pose plastic characters are a huge step in the right direction.

 Brother SRM wrote:
I'm not a fan of some of the more cartoony models (the already-posted eagle chariot is well sculpted, but I think the concept is silly as it gets) but the artistry in the plastic tooling these days is insane. The quality of the stuff in Dark Vengeance is kind of mind blowing. I don't think GW's hit/miss ratio has really changed at all, people are mostly just finding things to complain about and clinging to nostalgia.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

 -Loki- wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Now... pretty much one pose wonders.

I'll take well designed mono pose characters over hodge podge multipart characters that look like shop window mannequins any day. Those new single pose plastic characters are a huge step in the right direction.

I won't, and I don't.

They were a move in the scrapyard direction as far as I am concerned.

But then, I want them more for RPGs and for Mordheim than for Gee Dubs current games.

If you like one pose wonders, then they are fine.

Me, I like being able to create the mini that I want, not one some mook with a CAD program wanted. For me the versatility more than compensated for any failings.

GW went from having very nice versatile figures to something that I am less likely to buy, and all because some lack wits had difficulty making the models rank up....

But then the time of that switch to one pose wonders was about the same time my GW Fantasy purchases first started to drop, and they have been dropping ever since.... So far this year? None.... Last year? Some terrain....

I have painted some Vampire Counts plastics for a commission, and my thoughts when painting the Crypt Ghouls? My gods, these are crap.... Are they supposed to be scary, 'cause, really, they ain't.... Give me the Heresy ghouls, please and thank you.

The skellies were okay, not as good as Mantic, but more poses. Big heads and big hands are the only real problem. If there are any figures in the set that I would be likely to get for myself, it would be these, but not at GW prices.

The zeds.... not so good. Heads and hands are way to freakin' big. Not new though, so I can shake my head and mutter that I already have some that I never got around to painting for myself....

The corpse cart... yeah, I want my cart to be pulled by legless zombies.... Oh my gods, it's after us! Walk! The granny with a walker moves faster.... Worst model in the set, salvageable if you give it some horses to replace the lame zeds.

The one plastic that I have seen for the current VC army that I have wanted for myself is the Mortis Engine, and that is only because I really liked the one that Tinracer over on Beasts of War turned into a merry-go-round.

For the most part... I am glad that I have Mantic Undead rather than GW.

And those plastics are the only GW figures that I have painted this year - Mantic, AoW, RH, Reaper, Reaper, and more Reaper... I see more of these and buy more of these.

The Auld Grump - see what I mean about folks never agreeing?

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Now... pretty much one pose wonders.

I'll take well designed mono pose characters over hodge podge multipart characters that look like shop window mannequins any day. Those new single pose plastic characters are a huge step in the right direction.

I won't, and I don't.

They were a move in the scrapyard direction as far as I am concerned.

I think in this instance it's very safe to say you're one of the small minority.

You're honestly the first person I've ever heard express dislike for the new plastic character kits.

I always prefer a good mono-pose model to a multipose one.

A well done single pose model will look far more natural and can look quite spectacular, as the sculptor can get the model "flowing". Some great single pose models from the bretonnian range:






Nice, simple poses that convey a great sense of character.

For regimental models, I definitely prefer GOOD monopose models, having each and every model posed dynamically/differently is better suited to skirmish games rather than larger armies like GW produce, at least IMO.

As for GW models in general, I'm not a fan of the cartoony direction they're taking, but for the most part I can't fault the actual quality of the sculpts. There's some odd things that are a bit blergh, like Lizardmen Cold One riders are terrible sculpts (whether you like the miniatures or not is irrelevant, the sculpts are terrible). Nothing recent jumps out in my mind as being a poor sculpt though.

It's the artistic direction that I don't like.

 cincydooley wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Now... pretty much one pose wonders.

I'll take well designed mono pose characters over hodge podge multipart characters that look like shop window mannequins any day. Those new single pose plastic characters are a huge step in the right direction.

I won't, and I don't.

They were a move in the scrapyard direction as far as I am concerned.

I think in this instance it's very safe to say you're one of the small minority.

You're honestly the first person I've ever heard express dislike for the new plastic character kits.

Not really, I don't even bother looking at the single pose plastic character models, and I can find any number of posts on this forum complaining about them.

And not just about their prices.

How much that has to do with their being single pose figures and how much with being crappy figures...? I don't know - because in this case the price is enough to guarantee that I won't even bother looking.

I see images drifting by on websites, but mostly painted, and, frankly, I do not have enough interest to bother looking otherwise.

A single pose, single character, plastic miniature for how much?! I doubt that I am the only one balking at making a purchase....

So, Reaper, AoW, Heresy, Mantic....

Though I will admit to choking on the cost of the mounted Brunhilde Von Konigsmark from Raging Heroes - nice figure, but two cavalry figures for $75 US? Ummm... no.

But... nice pose -


*EDIT* Added Spoiler Tag - image is Off Topic. Safe For Work, but Off Topic....

The Auld Grump

Well just to throw out the figs of the 90's as prime examples of no stuff wasn't better back then. I will have summon the previously mentioned but not show Lord of Undeath


But also, I would like to remind people of the 2nd generation daemonnets. We all remember the Juan Diaz ones, we try to forget these...


And the Bloodletters weren't that hot either.

GW has always put out stinkers. We just try to forget them.

As for better miniatures, I point to a certain Spaniards latest blogs for a whole building full of better miniatures:
http://mr-bugman.blogspot.co.uk/

Not to sound like a total expert... but I'll tell you what it is.

3D SCULPTING!

Ever since Gee-Dub started 3D sculpting EVERYTHING instead of using traditional hand-sculpted miniatures the quality of models has gone down the drain. Take a look ---- try this: Anything that is a machine or armor looks alright for the most part with 3D sculpting.

Anything organic looks like complete trash, smoothed over stretched on a tarp TRASH!
THEY ALL LOOK LIKE STONE STATUES - YOU have to paint on the organic look of the model, copy paste feathers, copy paste scales.
Lazy miniatures that are bigger, sure they're bigger but its plastic so why not?


You can't fool me Gee-Dub. Good examples are Tyranid models flesh, fantasy releases like the Griffons and anything fantasy really.

This 3D sculpting malarky has led me personally to not buy anymore Gee-Dub, all the new organic models have line and shapes that NO HAND SCULPTOR would EVER put into their models if they had a soul.

silent25 wrote:
Well just to throw out the figs of the 90's as prime examples of no stuff wasn't better back then. I will have summon the previously mentioned but not show Lord of Undeath

My eyes they BURN

Poor Nagash... I never really hated that model. If it had a decent paint job, I think it would look ok.

I do admit to hoping that someone will one day submit a stonking Nagash conversion/scratchbuild as their Golden Daemon entry.

I think that the problem with Nagash could be solved simply by changing the head.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Not really, I don't even bother looking at the single pose plastic character models, and I can find any number of posts on this forum complaining about them.

And not just about their prices.

Yeah, you're going to have to link me to some of that discussion, because I have a lot of trouble believing it.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I think that the problem with Nagash could be solved simply by changing the head.

It had a different head originally.

Poor Gary Morley was force to switch it to a skull head by a suit in GW. He made such a poor skull head that he figured the suit would take one look and let him go back to the original head.

The suit did not, the suit liked the 'bobo the clown skull' head and so a terrible crime occurred and Morley was forever to be labeled a poor sculptor, despite actually being a good one and the Nagash/Morley trope entered the forums of the earth, and remained there, long after they ceased to be funny.


Behold.



From the artwork:

Honestly though, with Nagash, I entirely agree, he would be fine without the head. I think the staff and the dagger are alright and the pose is fine. Its just the ridiculous face and the daft bloody Christmas tree hat!

I'm completely on board with Nagash's head not being Morley's fault. Even still, I don't think it's a particularly good representation of the artwork.

I was a fan of Morley's Waywatchers and some other models, particularly Heinrich Kemmler, which is a GW classic IMO. But his larger models seem to be particularly weak. Most minis have wildly distorted proportions, but as the model size increases, you have to start bringing it toward more realistic proportions. Morley seemed to struggle with that. Look at his Orion. It's a better sculpt than Nagash, but the musculature looks ridiculous on a mini that size.

 gorgon wrote:
I'm completely on board with Nagash's head not being Morley's fault. Even still, I don't think it's a particularly good representation of the artwork.

I was a fan of Morley's Waywatchers and some other models, particularly Heinrich Kemmler, which is a GW classic IMO. But his larger models seem to be particularly weak. Most minis have wildly distorted proportions, but as the model size increases, you have to start bringing it toward more realistic proportions. Morley seemed to struggle with that. Look at his Orion. It's a better sculpt than Nagash, but the musculature looks ridiculous on a mini that size.

Actually check out Moreley's work on the Inquisitor 54mm game. Those figs are normally seen as being his "redemptive" release. He had become notorious for hamfisted by that point (HE spear men) up to that point.

Didn't Morley also do those 3rd edition shoddy Striking Scorpions that I posted earlier?.

But if he sculpted Heinrich Kemmler, all sins are forgiven

 cincydooley wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Not really, I don't even bother looking at the single pose plastic character models, and I can find any number of posts on this forum complaining about them.

And not just about their prices.

Yeah, you're going to have to link me to some of that discussion, because I have a lot of trouble believing it.

No, I am not going do do your work for you - if you have not seen them then it is because you do not want to see them. I will give you a big fat hint though - the complaints that I remember have to do with recent Chaos releases.

If I can find them when I am not looking for them then I am pretty sure that you can if you are.

When I say I am not interested what I really mean is I AM NOT INTERESTED.

This also means that I am not interested in looking for things that you can find for yourself.

The Auld Grump

Heinrich kemmler is a great model I still use mine as a master Necromancer and the model blends in perfectly with the rest,

silent25 wrote:
Well just to throw out the figs of the 90's as prime examples of no stuff wasn't better back then. I will have summon the previously mentioned but not show Lord of Undeath


But also, I would like to remind people of the 2nd generation daemonnets. We all remember the Juan Diaz ones, we try to forget these...


And the Bloodletters weren't that hot either.

GW has always put out stinkers. We just try to forget them.

As for better miniatures, I point to a certain Spaniards latest blogs for a whole building full of better miniatures:
http://mr-bugman.blogspot.co.uk/

I think that I have mentioned that there are periods where I pretty much wrote off many GW figures as crap.... Those figures come from one such time.

The original Realms of Chaos Daemons (Lost and the Damned era) were fine - a wee bit wee by today's GW scale, but they had flavor.

The Auld Grump


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BaconUprising wrote:
Heinrich kemmler is a great model I still use mine as a master Necromancer and the model blends in perfectly with the rest,

Kemmler I will grant you.

The Auld Grump

 Flashman wrote:
Didn't Morley also do those 3rd edition shoddy Striking Scorpions that I posted earlier?.

But if he sculpted Heinrich Kemmler, all sins are forgiven

Morely did do Kemmler.

Hopefully this makes my description more clear in regards to the current state of GW's 3D sculpting and plastics.
Other companies are using 3D sculpting techniques as well, however GW seem to be using it to just kick out kit-after-kit and hope the 'Eavy metal team can paint the details into the model.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

That griffon makes my eyes bleed.

What the heck...?

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Not really, I don't even bother looking at the single pose plastic character models, and I can find any number of posts on this forum complaining about them.

And not just about their prices.

Yeah, you're going to have to link me to some of that discussion, because I have a lot of trouble believing it.

No, I am not going do do your work for you - if you have not seen them then it is because you do not want to see them. I will give you a big fat hint though - the complaints that I remember have to do with recent Chaos releases.

If I can find them when I am not looking for them then I am pretty sure that you can if you are.

When I say I am not interested what I really mean is I AM NOT INTERESTED.

This also means that I am not interested in looking for things that you can find for yourself.

The Auld Grump

You're the one making claims, brosef. You're the one responsible for providing some substantiation to them.

Anyone can can rant on the Internet under the veil on anonymity and refuse to provide any substance to his arguments.

You've clearly made up your mind, and nothing is going to change it, so that's cool.

Yeah, I'm having trouble with "and I can find any number of posts on this forum complaining about them.". I've seen pretty much universal praise for the new plastic characters.

I personally prefer multi-part, multi-pose models to monopose models, too. It won't stop me from buying some of the newer kits if the designs are good enough, but the boring repetition in kits like the DE Corsairs, Empire State Troops, etc., really kill a lot of my enthusiasm. And those models at least came with lots of arm choices and weapons to spice things up.

I also want to second his comments about how a vocal minority ruined it for everyone by whining about how hard it is to rank up models. If that's all you care about, just assemble all the damnthings the same way. Now GW is heading towards the beige, boring realm of historicals, where the motto is "We give you 44 models, and you can pose 4 of them however you like. The rest are marching or preparing to march."

 -Loki- wrote:
Yeah, I'm having trouble with "and I can find any number of posts on this forum complaining about them.". I've seen pretty much universal praise for the new plastic characters.

The answer for you is the same - look for them and you will find them.

Is that new Karl Franz a plastic character? By golly! Yes!

Are there complaints right here in this very thread?

Hmmm....

Oy!

And the sad thing? Up until I saw that picture above I didn't even know that there was a crappy looking plastic Karl Franz....

On the other hand, I had forgotten how nice the metal Green Knight looked... I'd replace the banner poles with piano wire, but otherwise... an excellent figure..

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* To be clear - I have no problem with metal or resin monopose models - but getting rid of the poseable plastics ignores what is, for me, one of the biggest advantages that the medium has.

The plastic Karl Franz on giant pigeon....

*EDIT 2* And for those that absolutely must have something nice about GW plastics - I am quite fond of their terrain models.

I still keep an eye on them, simply because I do like them.