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 Earthbeard wrote:
Our throats, as we sleep and dream of better days.

Don't worry GW will just invest in thought police and sue us if we even think about negative GW thoughts.

Curiously I attended a meeting today and all the talk was about how subcontract, fuel and materials costs are set to start rising again so GW will be wanting to increase again at some point unless the last lot of rises were "future proofed". I guess we will see.

As to the list:


Warhammer World - get rid of the staff bar? I don't think so it seems quite rammed in there when I have been.
White Dwarf - possible, it serves little function if you have a store or internet connection nearby or when the E-products seem to be focused on.
Forge World - No chance, it's profitable.
Black Library - No chance, it's profitable.
LotR/Hobbit - I doubt it, the monies been spent so it will be wrung for every penny. Possible loss of latter end of line and/or the more niche models once the main character/units are out.
40k army - Definitely not, if its a full army already then why dilute their most successful product?
WHFB army - Definitely not, if its a full army already then why dilute their most successful product?
Lawyers - No - to be fair their actually necessary.

There's another option that's not considered - moving to purely digital publications. They'd start off by making all physical print runs, like death from the skies, limited with a view to making them all digital only...

There's a further option, specialist games are being with drawn to allow GW to release new versions as the Hobbit licences end. Now this is incredibly unlikely but one can hope.

 zedmeister wrote:
There's another option that's not considered - moving to purely digital publications. They'd start off by making all physical print runs, like death from the skies, limited with a view to making them all digital only...

Wouldn't happen that one though would it? If you make such a broad cut, you are massively harming your business.

I mean really, what percentage of codex are now digital? I would say judging by the amount I have seen, only 15-20% max.

I dont have an Ipad, I have a great wide screen android phone, and a great PC. A tablet sits in the middle to the point of being pointless for me, I play with my nephews Ipad when I really fancy some browsing, but generally any proper typing gets done on my PC and any minor browsing gets done on the phone, a great many people feel the same. As a result, they would totally feth themselves if they did a digital switchover enmasse because three quarters of their players would stop buying the rules.

Although.. maybe you are right after all! They don't seem to be making much sense across the board at the moment!

White Dwarf will be next to go IMO, assuming there is a next to go of course. The costs involved with producing the magazine (and considering it is largely done in-house aside from the printing) must be astronomical. You have, what is it, 8 or 10 full time editorial staff as well as large eavy metal team that could be scaled back if they weren't needed for magazine shoots. Add this to the production and distribution costs and it soon mounts up. It strikes me that WD is a bit of a millstone that GW would rather be rid of. I think the relaunch is a last chance saloon for the magazine to prove it can attain and sustain the level of sales needed to justify its existence. If it doesn't do that, I can see it firstly moving to digital format only and then phasing out altogether.

To go all digital, they really would need to adapt market saturation technologies. By having a print version, the Digital releases are an 'option' not the primary so they don't necessarily need to hit every platform.

It also looks like Metal models are not being made anymore. They will probably be starting with the less popular stuff and it feels like all the core metal products which sell were made into finecast already.

I dunno, it feels like we all knew this was coming. They said 2+ years ago no more metal.

I placed an order for every metal model and add-on bitz I have been wanting. Wasn't that many models so I figured I would just be done with it.

 filbert wrote:
I think the relaunch is a last chance saloon for the magazine to prove it can attain and sustain the level of sales needed to justify its existence. If it doesn't do that, I can see it firstly moving to digital format only and then phasing out altogether.

Yeah I agree on this one, WD is probably an expense they could live without.

And lets be honest, so could we. It won't sustain its sales because it isn't any good. I had a sub for 12 months last year and I really don't miss the bloody thing, I even went and bought the 1st relaunched issue, and that was crap as well.

I can't see WDs sales improving, so it will doubtless be next on the chopping block. As I said, its no great shakes, I check their website once a month for new stuff, and I honestly think that provides me with all of the services I got from WD, the magazine has just turned into total dross in my eyes.

Especially after the announced at UK games day that WD will no longer have rules in it. Makes it utterly pointless, I haven't bought one since the dakkajet rules.

The only way WFB or 40k get cut is through complete company shut down.

Locally Fantasy seems to have a bigger following than 40k, the fantasy stuff moves off the shelf quicker too. To be honest havent played any of the specialist games since the early 90s when I worked in a game store and we did demos of blood bowl and manowar. I will miss the inquisitor figs, but a large chunk of them have already disappeared.

If anything WD should be next on the chopping block, but I see GW keeping it afloat as a monthly "see whats coming next " oversized catalogue.

Im betting its The Hobbit line.
Not one of the long timers, already on quakey ground and low sales. Cutting off WHFB or 40K would be veretibale suicide even by their standards.

But i am just loing faith in GW all the more after hearing all this.

I'm leaning toward white dwarf myself. Especially since that's were are most of the leaks seem to come from. So they kill two birds with one stone. They save money on cutting out the mag and crack down on the leaks as well.

It's really not a surprise that sales are bad when the specialist games aren't sold in GW's retail stores (and in fact are banned from open gaming in GW stores),

This is a false statement. I've seen specialist games played at GW stores recently on open game nights. YMMV though on which stores run them...but to say they are banned is a lie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AS for Specialsit Games, did anyone else notice that as Specialist Games declines; more "competitor's for GW" appeared and thrive dint eh niches GW was leaving?

Infinity/Malifaux/Dust- Skirmish
WarMachine- Started as Skirmish but expanded
Flames of War- Operational/Big Battles
Spartan Games- Naval/Space

Coinicdence? I think not. GW had kept gamers completely inhouse no matter what type of game they wanted to play. Now, they don't and they have lost market dominance.

What a HUGE strategic mistake.

^100 times this

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

It's really not a surprise that sales are bad when the specialist games aren't sold in GW's retail stores (and in fact are banned from open gaming in GW stores),

This is a false statement. I've seen specialist games played at GW stores recently on open game nights. YMMV though on which stores run them...but to say they are banned is a lie.

Or just not universally accurate - it may well be banned from some stores, much like open gaming itself is banned from some stores.

Not every GW store needs to be a complete wastes of brick and mortar, some are, but most likely not even most....

The Auld Grump


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Earthbeard wrote:
Our throats, as we sleep and dream of better days.

Nar, they'll try... but they will make the mistake of cutting their own throats first. (First rule of a successful Murder/Suicide - do the murder before committing suicide....)

Specialist Games were some of the few things that I could point to and say that GW was doing something that I approve of....

The Auld Grump - Mordheim is just plain a great game. Necromunda is a great game. Why the Hell aren't they putting them in stores? Where the Heck is the advertising?!

Does anyone know if this also impacts FW's Aeronautica Imperialis range?

Many of the aircraft there are going out of stock, and I'm not sur eif it is panic buying from the demise of Epic or something worse.

This doesn't appear to effect FW.

FW stock running down and going off line for a period is SOP for FW.

In-store gaming is next on the chopping bloc imo. They're already getting ready to eliminate it.

Lawyers will be the last thing to go. By the end of its life, GW will have no products but rather just consist of a team of lawyers to sue people.

I have a feeling that White Dwarf is next on the chopping block. I'd say the Hobbit/LotR, but I would think they'd be contractually obligated to keep that stuff up.

Their edge paint line seems to have been the next thing to go.

You'd think they'd try to refresh BFG given the upswing of Star Wars X-Wing stuff. I'm not really into Star Wars, so I'm not interested in that game, but it'd seem there is a market.

But dumping old lines is probably in their best interest. WD would be great if they just said screw it and support all the hobbies and made a big business change to being an IP house and having all third parties make their stuff. But that'll never happen and WD won't wither because of die hards buying it up.

Never seen LotR/Hobbit played outside of a GW store. Game is WAY WAY WAY too expensive and the models are kinda ugly.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Their edge paint line seems to have been the next thing to go.

Has there been any confirmation that the edge paints are actually being dropped and it wasn't just a temporary supply problem or website glitch? It would be really odd for them to get rid of them so soon after they were released as a "permanent" addition to the paint line, unless there's some kind of production problem that isn't related to cost cutting.

 notprop wrote:
This doesn't appear to effect FW.

Nope. FW have confirmed both on facebook and by phone that the have ended production of all epic-scale stuff (including AI) and once current stocks are gone that's it. Which is sad because it's a great game (IMO better than any of the "core" games).

WHW wont be going anywhere as its too much of a showcase for GW.

Id be looking at the lesser selling armies or those that require an inordinate amount of money injecting into them to be viable again. Doesn't look good for the sisters.

This would sound really oddball but I look at this as how automotive companies have made decisions:

Forgeworld is another competing division that is "reasonable" in their rules and competitive with the main model division. This will not do.

Haul them under one roof and close Forgeworld.

Say you will release the old models for more money with a new form of "high detail resin". Then release "special edition" models in plastic (scanned models then tweaked in 3D). Now you can make more money from the "cash-cow" and have a few of the boys in-house to train your other guys and then let them go.

The Black Library is unique and creates the buzz in the mainstream to tempt people to buy models. As long as they do not make too much fluff and get into codex making they are safe.

I see the future, it is like a boot stomping on a face forever...

right....cause cutting specialist games that REALLY didn't sell even when they were promoted (local personal ancedotes aside about how the specialist games were bought/played by everyone in your area not withstanding) means the the end times are upon us again.

I chose other cause I'm not going to drink the internet rage machines kool-aid because GW finally cut the cord on old games that never made any money and were terrible sellers even when GW devoted half a damn white dwarf to them. One of my flgs has had the same copy of bloodbowl sitting on the shelf now for 5 years, utterly untouched. At this point thanks to the shelf space it's taken up by retail math even if it was sold for double the sticker price it's still a loss.

Maybe GW will sell the rights to these games to fantasy flight, they do a much better job of making niche games like this profitable.

PS: Black library and forge world make money, it's why they are still around. Hell, black library publishing might wind up making more money that GW proper does in a few years based on how fast it's going. NONE of GW's sister companies are losing money, it' why they are still open while sabretooth games and other sister companies created around the same time are all gone and forgotten....they failed to make money. Hell, even warhammer world makes money on it's events...it's the requirement they have for running them, the events have to pay for themselves and they sure as hell seem to.

I do so love it when people apply their personal, local experiences to the entirety of the planet. Right or wrong, it's not exactly scientific is it...

There are many, many signs pointing to something going on with the company, at this point conjecture is almost mandatory. From a business standpoint it is another indicator of a sudden, urgent need for cash in the short-term, one of many ranging from the licensing of IP, the increased pace of releases and the pullback from 3rd party distribution to GW direct as much as possible... none of this stuff is a particularly great idea longterm, to greater or lesser degree.

Sometimes where there is smoke there is fire. Although the tone of comments towards GW is not always great, I wouldn't quite call it kool-aid to have a bit of a quirked eye-brow as to what is going on at this point... but that's just me.

Can't fault your logic Major tom, but there's a new one of these sky is falling threads no matter what happens. new release sells out GW screwed up, new release DOESN'T sell out, GW screwed up.

Frankly, it's gotten old.

Orktavius wrote:
right....cause cutting specialist games that REALLY didn't sell even when they were promoted (local personal ancedotes aside about how the specialist games were bought/played by everyone in your area not withstanding) means the the end times are upon us again.

As I've said many times already this week, it's not one specific incident. It's the pattern of GW's actions. Each one taken in isolation could be a rational decision by a healthy company, but when you add it all together it looks like desperate flailing to get enough immediate profits to make the next financial report look acceptable and keep the shareholders happy.

Orktavius wrote:
new release sells out GW screwed up, new release DOESN'T sell out, GW screwed up.

That's because it IS screwing up in both cases. It's not a good sign if you significantly misjudge demand for your products. It's bad if you only make a small amount, sell out, and leave potential customers with nothing to buy (at which point your competition says thank you), and it's bad if you have a new product that fails to sell because demand was nonexistent and it just gathers dust on the shelf. When you have the entire Tau release suffering from severe shortages and the entire Hobbit range collecting dust it's a sign that you don't really understand your market and are constantly one step behind and trying to catch up.

And of course it's a serious problem if the shortages are because GW can't afford to produce sufficient stock to be confident in their ability to meet demand until they get the money from the first sales.

 notprop wrote:
This doesn't appear to effect FW.

FW stock running down and going off line for a period is SOP for FW.

Incorrect, FW are closing out their specialist games production, including Aeronautica Imperialis. That's from the horse's mouth.

The specialist games were cut years ago. They have just been running down stock since then.

I voted that the White Dwarf will be cut next. That magazine is a dinosaur and unless it is making money it SHOULD be cut.

Warhammer World must be great for those within driving distance, big picture though it means very little. Unless it is generating profit there is no reason to keep it.

Cutting stuff from a business if it is unprofitable is what you are supposed to do. Maybe the pattern is no pattern except someone making unpopular decisions and cutting stuff is always unpopular. Perhaps cutting this stuff is just making GW healthier rather an indication of imminent collapse. Not a popular stance for people that want GW to fail, but just as likely from our shared position of total speculation.