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Decrepit Dakkanaut






FORT CARSON, Colo. – A female soldier in the U.S. Army pleaded guilty Monday to two counts of desertion after fleeing to Canada to avoid a second tour of duty in the Iraq war.

Pfc. Kimberly Rivera was sentenced to 10 months in prison and a bad-conduct discharge after entering her plea at a court-martial.

Rivera, 30, was a wheeled-vehicle driver in Fort Carson's 4th Infantry Brigade Combat Team and served in Iraq in 2006. She has said that, while there, she became disillusioned with the U.S. mission in Iraq.

During a two-week leave in the U.S. in 2007, Rivera crossed the Canadian border after she was ordered to serve another tour in Iraq.

The Colorado Springs Gazette reported that when judge Col. Timothy Grammel asked Rivera on Monday how long she remained absent, Rivera replied: "As long as I possibly could, sir. ... I intended to quit my job permanently."

After fleeing to Canada, Rivera applied for refugee status but was denied.

Rivera then applied for permanent residency, but Canadian immigration officials rejected that application, too. Authorities also rejected her requests to stay on humanitarian and compassionate grounds.

Rivera was first ordered to leave Canada or face deportation in 2009, but she appealed that decision. The mother of four faced another deportation order issued in 2012.

She was arrested at the U.S. border and taken into military custody.

Roughly 19,000 people signed an online petition in Canada protesting Rivera's deportation order, and rallies were held in a number of Canadian cities calling on the government to let her stay in the country.

Nobel Peace Prize winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu and the U.S. veterans organization Veterans for Peace also protested the deportation order.

During her sentencing hearing, government lawyers argued that Rivera, who was granted leave shortly into her tour to work out marital issues, failed to return because her husband threatened to leave her and take their children, The Gazette reported.

Rivera's civilian defense attorney, James Matthew Branum, argued that Rivera never filed for status as a conscientious objector because she didn't know the option was available to her. He said Rivera should have been informed about it when she met with a chaplain in Iraq over concerns that she couldn't take a life, The Gazette reported.

In 2012, the War Resisters Support Campaign, a Canadian activist group, estimated that there were about 200 Iraq war resisters in Canada. It said two other Iraq war resisters who were deported, Robin Long and Clifford Cornell, faced lengthy jail sentences upon their return.

Long was given a dishonorable discharge in 2008 and sentenced to 15 months in a military prison after pleading guilty to charges of desertion.

The lower house of Canada's Parliament most recently passed a motion in 2009 in favor of allowing U.S. military deserters to stay, but the Conservative Party government was not persuaded.

During the Vietnam War, as many as 90,000 Americans won refuge in Canada, most of them to avoid the military draft. Many were given permanent residence status that led to Canadian citizenship, but the majority went home after President Jimmy Carter granted amnesty in the late 1970s.

Some Canadian politicians say the situation is different now because Iraq war deserters like Rivera enlisted in the U.S. military voluntarily.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/29/female-army-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-desertion-to-avoid-second-tour-in-iraq/?intcmp=obinsite#ixzz2S359wl94

"Sigh" Talk about making the US Military look evil.....or showing the reporter is not fimiliar with the US Military

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Fort Campbell

Zero sympathy.

I've left my children behind on deployments. It killed me. Probably the most painful experience I have ever had in my life was listening to my son scream "Daddy, don't go!" while I was walking to the plane.

The thought of doing something like this though? Never entered my mind. Never would.

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 djones520 wrote:
Zero sympathy.

I've left my children behind on deployments. It killed me. Probably the most painful experience I have ever had in my life was listening to my son scream "Daddy, don't go!" while I was walking to the plane.

The thought of doing something like this though? Never entered my mind. Never would.


Same here. In many ways, being in the army is like being in prison - 'if you can't do the time, don't sign on the dotted line' or something. Being deployed is not really optional; it's something you agree to when you sign up.

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 Jihadin wrote:
"Sigh" Talk about making the US Military look evil.....or showing the reporter is not fimiliar with the US Military


How does it make the US military look evil? I didn't get that vibe from the article at all?
   
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 djones520 wrote:
Zero sympathy.

I've left my children behind on deployments. It killed me. Probably the most painful experience I have ever had in my life was listening to my son scream "Daddy, don't go!" while I was walking to the plane.

The thought of doing something like this though? Never entered my mind. Never would.


While I agree with you on principle, i also noted you didn't say your spouse threatened to leave you and take the kids, which is different then just having to leave them behind while on tour. She was still wrong, but the husband sounds like a total douche and needs some correction as well it seems.

All in all I think the only real noteworthy aspect of the story was Canada kicking her back to the US.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frank&Stein wrote:
How does it make the US military look evil? I didn't get that vibe from the article at all?


I didn't get that all either, if anything they seemed fairly lenient.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 14:23:35


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1. Conscientis Objector part. She was never informed. BS on that. You get ask that question at MEPPS
2. She was ordered to go on a 2nd tour. Like she was single out to do a 2nd tour We all know we go as a unit and not as an individual unless we volunteer and we know one year in and one year out was the rotation.
3. She took two week leave after her first tour to work out martial issue. Never came back due to threat of husband leaving and taking kids. WHere were the kids already living? Post Housing or off post?
4. No mention of the Family Care Plan...which would have resulted much better for her if she did not complete one before her 2nd deployment.

Do not feel sorry for her at all myself. I will though applaud the Canadian gov't for deporting her

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 Ahtman wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
Zero sympathy.

I've left my children behind on deployments. It killed me. Probably the most painful experience I have ever had in my life was listening to my son scream "Daddy, don't go!" while I was walking to the plane.

The thought of doing something like this though? Never entered my mind. Never would.


While I agree with you on principle, i also noted you didn't say your spouse threatened to leave you and take the kids, which is different then just having to leave them behind while on tour. She was still wrong, but the husband sounds like a total douche and needs some correction as well it seems.

All in all I think the only real noteworthy aspect of the story was Canada kicking her back to the US.




A guy I was deployed with had an issue similar to this. He eventually had to go home to claim custody of his children cause his wife went full moonbat.

IF something like that happens, you don't just up and run. You don't flee your unit. You go to your commanders, you explain the situation. You get something worked out. Service Before Self. 2nd Core Value of the Air Force. The Army has differant things, but they work on the same concept. Your personal life takes a back seat when you take that Oath.

The Army will take care of you to the best of it's abilities. Instead she took the selfish route, and ended up creating no end of trouble for herself, but also for her fellow Soldiers, her chain of command, and the Army as a whole.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I sympathize with the position she was in. We have all been there.

I will not condone her actions, nor sympathize with her in regards to the punishment. She made a choice, it was the wrong one. Now she has to reap it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/01 14:38:43


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If anything it's the Canadians that come off as "Evil" in this piece.

Nasty, nasty Canadians...

   
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Derbyshire, UK

I'm afraid Idon't have a great deal of sympathy. Unlike the people who were trying to avoid a draft they didn't believe in during the Vietnam war, she would have had to volunteer for the army. She made a conscious choice of career. If she didn't want to go to war she should never have joined.

   
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Seems silly to me to try and claim refugee status on the basis that US Army are expecting you to honor the contract you voluntarily entered into. If this was someone being drafted I could understand, heck I’d even sympathise.

To begin with I wasn’t sure what the relevance was of this solider being female, after all it’s not like plenty of male soldiers haven’t tried to pull similar tricks to get out of deployment, but now I think about it I wonder if allot of the sympathy she’s gotten has been down to her gender. If a male soldier had tried the same scam I wonder how many of the people who signed this on-line petition would care?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 15:00:25


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 djones520 wrote:
Zero sympathy.

I've left my children behind on deployments. It killed me. Probably the most painful experience I have ever had in my life was listening to my son scream "Daddy, don't go!" while I was walking to the plane.

The thought of doing something like this though? Never entered my mind. Never would.

And that's why I will always have the utmost respect for those who serves.

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 Medium of Death wrote:
If anything it's the Canadians that come off as "Evil" in this piece.

Nasty, nasty Canadians...



Well, when you have to ration healthcare the way they do, one extra mouth to feed can break the camel's back as it were


As to this idiot who deserted, well, she gets what she earns I guess... Well, the only sympathy that I really have for her, is the fact she was in 4ID, yeah they can be right fethed up sometimes.
   
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 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Medium of Death wrote:
If anything it's the Canadians that come off as "Evil" in this piece.

Nasty, nasty Canadians...



Well, when you have to ration healthcare the way they do, one extra mouth to feed can break the camel's back as it were


As to this idiot who deserted, well, she gets what she earns I guess... Well, the only sympathy that I really have for her, is the fact she was in 4ID, yeah they can be right fethed up sometimes.


LOL there is no health or dental rationing

any lifesaving dental will be taken care of, and you get some basic check ups on the govenment each year, but yes, you do need to pay for braces yourself (or pay for the extended dental (50$ a year for me) or have a job with benifits)

but on topic,

no sympathy, she wasnt conscripted or drafted, plenty of military people have to deal with their spouses/girlfirends cheating/leaving/whatever while they are on deployment or enlisted,

and they are given considerations to do so, this women in fact used on of those special considerations (her leave to work things out) to desert instead of work things out.





 
   
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To make matters worse its generally easier for a female to re-orientate to a part of the military thats doesn't involve killing anyone, as a driver she could have been placed on ambulance duty where her presence would directly act to save not end lives.

A lot is missing from the article. Where are the kids. If they remained in the US it nullifies any defence she has regarding concern for their welfare. For this to have any logical standing I would have to assume that the kids moved with her to Canada, but with no evidence to suggest this. The idea that she ran away in 2007 for the sake of the kids future, but remained in separate countries doesn't quite add up.

This doesn't help the rep of honest women in the US armed forces who have campaigned long for the right to serve.

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 djones520 wrote:
Zero sympathy.

I've left my children behind on deployments. It killed me. Probably the most painful experience I have ever had in my life was listening to my son scream "Daddy, don't go!" while I was walking to the plane.

The thought of doing something like this though? Never entered my mind. Never would.


Fully agree.

   
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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

This is a sad story. However, I think it was right to deport her, and it was right to sentence her. We have a volunteer military, and that's going to be pretty hard to support if people can leave when they like.

As others have pointed out, if she had been drafted, I'd feel completely differently - but she wasn't.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 19:54:15


 lord_blackfang wrote:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberly_Rivera

More info there.
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easysauce wrote:

LOL there is no health or dental rationing

any lifesaving dental will be taken care of, and you get some basic check ups on the govenment each year, but yes, you do need to pay for braces yourself (or pay for the extended dental (50$ a year for me) or have a job with benifits)

but on topic,

no sympathy, she wasnt conscripted or drafted, plenty of military people have to deal with their spouses/girlfirends cheating/leaving/whatever while they are on deployment or enlisted,

and they are given considerations to do so, this women in fact used on of those special considerations (her leave to work things out) to desert instead of work things out.



You must not have been here long... the rationing thing is mostly to get a rise outta you Canucks

And, being that she was 4ID, I really have to wonder just HOW much in her "corner" her command was, if she felt that desertion was preferable to coming back and serving honorably... (note, my wife and I both personally had terrible times while in that unit, and everyone that I know absolutely hates it while they are there, hate it after they leave, and dread seeing orders to go back)


@Orlanth, if she was assigned to be a driver, she wouldn't be doing any killing, except to create roadkill, as drivers do not shoot*, nor do they leave the vehicle at any time* during a mission down range.


*(the only cases that changes are when the vehicle is completely disabled in which case, everyone becomes an 11B infantryman)
   
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 Ouze wrote:
This is a sad story. However, I think it was right to deport her, and it was right to sentence her. We have a volunteer military, and that's going to be pretty hard to support if people can leave when they like.

As others have pointed out, if she had been drafted, I'd feel completely differently - but she wasn't.



Can you actually "leave when you like"?

Isn't it once you've signed up you're there for the duration of your enlistment whether you like it or not.


Not that that changes anything, its still voluntary to sign up or reenlist. So no excuses.

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She was clearly a spy for the American army, sent to pave the way for the US's invasion of Canada. As part of "Operation Sticky Fingers" she was part of the team responsible for weakening Canada by stealing its strategic reserves of maple syrup. Her next objectives would have been to see if they have oil and to "discover" that the Canadian government had WMD's and was gassing all the French Canadians if they did, giving the USA a pretext for launching an illegal war of "liberation".

Canada obviously discovered all this but fearful of an all out war with the USA couldn't go public with what they knew so invented this story as a face saving exercise to buy them time to sharpen all the moose antlers in their crack Moose Defence Force (MDF), just in case the USA decides to invade anyway.

   
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Holland , Vermont

Nobody made her put her hand up and swear a oath to the people of the United States of America, she did that of her own free will, with the knowledge she may have to deploy and earn the money and benefits that being a part of the United States military entitles you to.

Sure it sucks to deploy..thats why its called war, I had 2.5 deployments 2 of them back to back due to the needs of the military (a 2 month gap, 13F were in short supply) , that sucked but hey that's life.

Things can and will get bad back home, and sometimes you have to suck it up and drive on, like almost every trooper I served with did, at least she had all her limbs to make a run for the border with....

Zero sympathy for a deserter, since then her absence may have caused some other family or soldier hardship..since those holes in the roster have to be filled.

Desertion is not a victimless offence.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/02 06:01:13


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Obvious things that must not have occurred to her in order to find herself in this situation:
1. Military service is a commitment.
2. Military service could very likely require you to kill other people.
3. Military service very likely will require you to leave your family behind for extended periods of time.
4. Canada is only sympathetic to real refugees, not people experiencing the equivalent of buyer's remorse.

I have zero sympathy. As Ouze said, had she been a draftee, I'd have signed the petition too. But as it stands, this ended exactly as it should have.
   
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Beijing

Sad story all round. I don't think anyone was being 'evil' here, she's been caught in a very difficult position between her home life and her commitment to serve. I don't think the military or Canada have behaved inappropriately, it's just an unfortunate story. Her husband sounds like a tool, but then again many men in the army have exactly the same thing happen to them while on duty and don't get much sympathy or newspaper coverage.
   
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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Grey Templar wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
This is a sad story. However, I think it was right to deport her, and it was right to sentence her. We have a volunteer military, and that's going to be pretty hard to support if people can leave when they like.

As others have pointed out, if she had been drafted, I'd feel completely differently - but she wasn't.



Can you actually "leave when you like"?

Isn't it once you've signed up you're there for the duration of your enlistment whether you like it or not.


Not that that changes anything, its still voluntary to sign up or reenlist. So no excuses.


No, that was my point, which I think you maybe missed. Maybe I was unclear. You can't just leave when you like and I'm not saying you should be able to. If you could, it would be impossible to have a workable military.

The only way really I'd feel sympathetic to her position would be if she got drafted or even, hell, stop-lossed; but I think they rarely do that now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/02 07:02:25


 lord_blackfang wrote:
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 Flinty wrote:
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Ouze wrote:

The only way really I'd feel sympathetic to her position would be if she got drafted or even, hell, stop-lossed; but I think they rarely do that now.


Anecdotal, yes, but didn't Jihadin almost get stop-lossed a while back?
   
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Some Canadian politicians say the situation is different now because Iraq war deserters like Rivera enlisted in the U.S. military voluntarily.

Their consent was obtained through deception and is thus invalid. The U.S. government deliberately lied about Iraqi actions prior to the invasion in order to justify an aggressive war, claiming that Iraq was refusing to cooperate with UN weapons inspectors when they knew in fact that Iraq was actually being proactively helpful. A person is right to refuse to be a part of that crime against peace, just as they are right to refuse any other illegal order.

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pgmason wrote:
I'm afraid Idon't have a great deal of sympathy. Unlike the people who were trying to avoid a draft they didn't believe in during the Vietnam war, she would have had to volunteer for the army. She made a conscious choice of career. If she didn't want to go to war she should never have joined.



I agree totally - if you don't like (or at least accept) the idea of going to war, then joining any of the armed services is not really a good career choice.

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Fort Campbell

 AlexHolker wrote:
Some Canadian politicians say the situation is different now because Iraq war deserters like Rivera enlisted in the U.S. military voluntarily.

Their consent was obtained through deception and is thus invalid. The U.S. government deliberately lied about Iraqi actions prior to the invasion in order to justify an aggressive war, claiming that Iraq was refusing to cooperate with UN weapons inspectors when they knew in fact that Iraq was actually being proactively helpful. A person is right to refuse to be a part of that crime against peace, just as they are right to refuse any other illegal order.


Hey bud. Blow it out your ass.

Everyone of us made the decision with our eye's wide open. Don't sit there and call us all blind sheeple.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grey Templar wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
This is a sad story. However, I think it was right to deport her, and it was right to sentence her. We have a volunteer military, and that's going to be pretty hard to support if people can leave when they like.

As others have pointed out, if she had been drafted, I'd feel completely differently - but she wasn't.



Can you actually "leave when you like"?

Isn't it once you've signed up you're there for the duration of your enlistment whether you like it or not.


Not that that changes anything, its still voluntary to sign up or reenlist. So no excuses.


No, you can't. It is a contractual obligation. You pick how long you want to enlist for (4-6 years), and you serve it. There are a number of factors that can lead to the early termination of that contract, but most of them aren't good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/02 09:49:53


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 AlexHolker wrote:

Their consent was obtained through deception and is thus invalid. The U.S. government deliberately lied about Iraqi actions prior to the invasion in order to justify an aggressive war, claiming that Iraq was refusing to cooperate with UN weapons inspectors when they knew in fact that Iraq was actually being proactively helpful. A person is right to refuse to be a part of that crime against peace, just as they are right to refuse any other illegal order.


This woman has said nothing about the 'illegality' of the Iraq war in attempt to justify her actions and given that she had already served a tour back in 2006 and joined up long after the invasion occurred, I think it's fair to say that it had nothing to do with her decision.

You are projecting your own objections to the war onto her. This is a fundamentally dishonest method of debate.

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