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 Capamaru wrote:
I find that vindicare assassin will be quite annoying to them with the double wound and remove invulnerable save rifle rounds . Sure thing they are scary but I wanna believe the upcoming eldar codex will deliver something scarier .

The vindi just shoots the suit with the nice wargear. But he doesnt ignore cover so its feast or famine. On the other hand, the suits can kill the vindi very easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I really think the answer is noise marines in rhinos. You use them as pillboxes with the 2 Str8 AP3 ignore cover blasts. Sure the farsight bomb can split fire, but it cannot shoot the rhino, destroy it, and then shoot the occupants.

4 units is slightly over 1000 points. Use some dakka to kill some of the drones and then open up with 8 blasts a turn on the suits. Even if you only get 1 suit with each blast, you are likely killing a suit and there arent many suits there.

Of course riptides can be a problem after you pop the rhino, but multiple rip tides ups the scale of the game considerably.

 Jancoran wrote:


You're not understanding. You charge with the normal unit, then hit the Farsun with the real threat. Losing the one pays for itself.

I did this tonight actually. I infiltrated two kroot units and then, after he came up and tried to kill the Riptides (He got one), the Kroot both charged after I hit the unit with Pathfinder Rail Ridles+Carbines. He nearly killed all the kroot from one unit and the other unit swarmed him. Swept him. Not easy to do, only won by 2 thanks to the Krootox, but it was enough to break them. I can't say that I would want to have to count on Kroot for THAT heavy lifting every time, but it worked.

If you don't rely on tanks, the Deathstar is LESS scary. But even in this example, it was a squeeker.

Powerful powerful unit, that Deathstar is. Killed two units and did a number on my third but even so, I lost far less points and used far less to get it done. So I felt good about it.

I don't think you can rely on your opponent being brain dead enough to get his Farsight unit within charge range of multiple Kroot (or whatever) units very often. That's just ridiculous. I obviously don't know how your opponent's army is constructed, but in my Tau armies, I've become a bit of a pie plate freak. If I somehow HAD to get my Farsight bomb in that awful position, for whatever reason, you could count on those Kroot units eating some pretty substantial firepower to thin them out, likely to the point of insignificance.

FYI, just running the numbers, you'd kill about 11 drones if you charged with a maxed Kroot unit - 20 Kroot, 3 Krootoxes (oxen?), and 10 hounds - and would then eat roughly 10 wounds in return from the suits alone. I'd call that a reasonably balanced combat despite all the unlikely advantages being in favor of the Kroot. The units also have equal initiative, assuming you had a Kroot hound around somewhere, so even after your opponent failed his Ld 8 check, you still didn't have an amazing shot at sweeping him. Basically, a combo of colossally bad tactics by your opponent and pretty dang good luck by you led to a catastrophic result. Like you said, I'm not sure relying on Kroot - or any other units - to get that job done would be wise.

New codex, new "how do i beat the deathstar" thread.

What is special about this death star?

The fact that its a shooty DS is kind of different but normally these deathstars have ridiculous re-rolled saves to protect their 1000pt cost.
We are talking about a load of 3+ Sv T4 wounds right? You can get +3 to their cover save which is good for a 4+ in the open but the unit is too unwieldy to use area terrain well.

Massed anti infantry fire for the drones followed by S8 for the suits should do ok. Assaulting it with an overwatch sponge followed by a killy unit will work if you can get it off.

My only experience against this unit was a game in which my friendly necron list shot up half the unit and the other half ran off the board.

Yeah, and I don't know why people keep saying "take the nueroweb jammer to make lasguns get hot".

First off, it's a 12" range and only targets one unit IIRC.

Guard blobs of let's say 40 (assuming you don't deepstrike) have a 30" or threat range. With a RP divining them AND FRFSRF you're looking at potentially 66 (counting off Sgts and sniper rifles for extending casualty range) re-rollable s3 shots.

Smart positioning and you only lose drones I suppose. But it is not rare at all to see 2 of these blobs.

This is typical new codex deathstar BS. I'll believe it is so great when a list with that unit takes a big con. See you at NoVa.

 Capamaru wrote:
I find that vindicare assassin will be quite annoying to them with the double wound and remove invulnerable save rifle rounds . Sure thing they are scary but I wanna believe the upcoming eldar codex will deliver something scarier .

the vindicare is a bother, but ive never seen anyone take him, so Im sure not afraid of one model in one army that is used less than 50% of them time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Exergy wrote:

 Capamaru wrote:
I find that vindicare assassin will be quite annoying to them with the double wound and remove invulnerable save rifle rounds . Sure thing they are scary but I wanna believe the upcoming eldar codex will deliver something scarier .

The vindi just shoots the suit with the nice wargear. But he doesnt ignore cover so its feast or famine. On the other hand, the suits can kill the vindi very easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I really think the answer is noise marines in rhinos. You use them as pillboxes with the 2 Str8 AP3 ignore cover blasts. Sure the farsight bomb can split fire, but it cannot shoot the rhino, destroy it, and then shoot the occupants.

4 units is slightly over 1000 points. Use some dakka to kill some of the drones and then open up with 8 blasts a turn on the suits. Even if you only get 1 suit with each blast, you are likely killing a suit and there arent many suits there.

Of course riptides can be a problem after you pop the rhino, but multiple rip tides ups the scale of the game considerably.

as one of my last 4 armies i face ill try and face a noise marine army but they dont seem that scary. I can pop the boxes with riptide.

what range are the noise marine shots?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Musketeer wrote:
Yeah, and I don't know why people keep saying "take the nueroweb jammer to make lasguns get hot".

First off, it's a 12" range and only targets one unit IIRC.

Guard blobs of let's say 40 (assuming you don't deepstrike) have a 30" or threat range. With a RP divining them AND FRFSRF you're looking at potentially 66 (counting off Sgts and sniper rifles for extending casualty range) re-rollable s3 shots.

Smart positioning and you only lose drones I suppose. But it is not rare at all to see 2 of these blobs.

This is typical new codex deathstar BS. I'll believe it is so great when a list with that unit takes a big con. See you at NoVa.

the jammer is cheap point filler and it is sometimes worth its weight.

Horde armies try to encircle the bomb, my one big experience thus far was at 1500 vs orcs who had 3 units of 30 shootas who circled me and tried to pin my against the corner of the board. I jumped up in the middle of them, thinned down 2 of them with the bomb, and the third one which was down to 20-24ish i jammered. They took 8 casualties from the jammer alone.

the jammer is for countering enemy rapid fire which is often within 12" and it does its job well.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
New codex, new "how do i beat the deathstar" thread.

What is special about this death star?

The fact that its a shooty DS is kind of different but normally these deathstars have ridiculous re-rolled saves to protect their 1000pt cost.
We are talking about a load of 3+ Sv T4 wounds right? You can get +3 to their cover save which is good for a 4+ in the open but the unit is too unwieldy to use area terrain well.

Massed anti infantry fire for the drones followed by S8 for the suits should do ok. Assaulting it with an overwatch sponge followed by a killy unit will work if you can get it off.

My only experience against this unit was a game in which my friendly necron list shot up half the unit and the other half ran off the board.

their is alot special about this deathstar here is a link to my thread on them, and here is the basic pro and con list for you!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/521966.page

Deepstrike (with no scatter If you have farsight be warlord)
JSJ (the jet move could be 3d6 if shadowsun is the warlord i think this is the best choice)
Infilitrate (some debate is being had as to if infiltrate confers to units joined)
Shoot at 8 different targets SHOOT AT 8 TARGETS!!
4+/2+ cover save thanks to shadowsun shroud/stealth
Everything is twin linked
Everything ignores cover
Can get - stubborn, monster hunter, tank hunter (for the unit) the others are the model only so have little use
Has 100% look out sir
Hit and Run at Init 5 (cant be tied up in combat unless you want to!)
Shortest range gun 18" with jsj it can keep at least 24" from most targets
Drones are BS 3 (twin linked, ignore cover, pinning)
Volume of fire unit (40-46 total shots twin linked, ignores cover)
Quality of fire Unit (11-17 ap1/ap2 twin linked ignores cover shots)

Theorius wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

I really think the answer is noise marines in rhinos. You use them as pillboxes with the 2 Str8 AP3 ignore cover blasts. Sure the farsight bomb can split fire, but it cannot shoot the rhino, destroy it, and then shoot the occupants.
4 units is slightly over 1000 points. Use some dakka to kill some of the drones and then open up with 8 blasts a turn on the suits. Even if you only get 1 suit with each blast, you are likely killing a suit and there arent many suits there.
Of course riptides can be a problem after you pop the rhino, but multiple rip tides ups the scale of the game considerably.

as one of my last 4 armies i face ill try and face a noise marine army but they dont seem that scary. I can pop the boxes with riptide.
what range are the noise marine shots?

Blastmasters have a 48" range.

If the tides became a problem it would become prudent to MSU the noise marines and take more rhinos. 5 5 man units with a single blastmaster and 1 10 man with 2 blastmasters in 6 rhinos is the same price.

 Exergy wrote:

Theorius wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

I really think the answer is noise marines in rhinos. You use them as pillboxes with the 2 Str8 AP3 ignore cover blasts. Sure the farsight bomb can split fire, but it cannot shoot the rhino, destroy it, and then shoot the occupants.
4 units is slightly over 1000 points. Use some dakka to kill some of the drones and then open up with 8 blasts a turn on the suits. Even if you only get 1 suit with each blast, you are likely killing a suit and there arent many suits there.
Of course riptides can be a problem after you pop the rhino, but multiple rip tides ups the scale of the game considerably.

as one of my last 4 armies i face ill try and face a noise marine army but they dont seem that scary. I can pop the boxes with riptide.
what range are the noise marine shots?

Blastmasters have a 48" range.

If the tides became a problem it would become prudent to MSU the noise marines and take more rhinos. 5 5 man units with a single blastmaster and 1 10 man with 2 blastmasters in 6 rhinos is the same price.

sounds like it could get nasty!

could you...post a 1500 list? i will play my friend chaos or find someone on vassal if i have to, I want to try it.

otherwise ill make one but i dont know what other units compliment/protect the marines.

Theorius wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Theorius wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

I really think the answer is noise marines in rhinos. You use them as pillboxes with the 2 Str8 AP3 ignore cover blasts. Sure the farsight bomb can split fire, but it cannot shoot the rhino, destroy it, and then shoot the occupants.
4 units is slightly over 1000 points. Use some dakka to kill some of the drones and then open up with 8 blasts a turn on the suits. Even if you only get 1 suit with each blast, you are likely killing a suit and there arent many suits there.
Of course riptides can be a problem after you pop the rhino, but multiple rip tides ups the scale of the game considerably.

as one of my last 4 armies i face ill try and face a noise marine army but they dont seem that scary. I can pop the boxes with riptide.
what range are the noise marine shots?

Blastmasters have a 48" range.

If the tides became a problem it would become prudent to MSU the noise marines and take more rhinos. 5 5 man units with a single blastmaster and 1 10 man with 2 blastmasters in 6 rhinos is the same price.

sounds like it could get nasty!

could you...post a 1500 list? i will play my friend chaos or find someone on vassal if i have to, I want to try it.

otherwise ill make one but i dont know what other units compliment/protect the marines.

As good as heldrakes are, I might first try something like this, which comes in at 1460. I chose to avoid the heldrakes incase the deathstar starts on the table, I want as much as I can there to wittle it down quickly.

150-160 Chaos Lord
MoS, Burning Brand, bike, Sigil, powerfist or murdersword(targeting a riptide)
6* 163, 5 Noise Marines
Rhino, 1 Blastmaster, single sonic blaster.
180 5 chaos spawn MoN
150 5 chaos spawn

The spawn chase after the riptides to tarpit them/kill them/ at least back them into corners. MoN spawn can keep a riptide in combat all game, where as the Chaos lord can kill one easily with str8 ap2 ID attacks.
The chaos lord starts with the unmarked spawn and flames what he can see.
You want to make sure you fire all your rhino bolters and the burning brand at the drones, hopefully killing 1-2 before you start using the noise marines to try and kill suits. Each pillbox gets 3 bolter shots that ignore cover and then the str8AP3 blast that ignores cover.


I dont know if it would work all the time, but it is a fairly competitive list that can beat other armies and it at least has a chance against this Tau Deathstar.

MilkmanAl wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


You're not understanding. You charge with the normal unit, then hit the Farsun with the real threat. Losing the one pays for itself.

I did this tonight actually. I infiltrated two kroot units and then, after he came up and tried to kill the Riptides (He got one), the Kroot both charged after I hit the unit with Pathfinder Rail Ridles+Carbines. He nearly killed all the kroot from one unit and the other unit swarmed him. Swept him. Not easy to do, only won by 2 thanks to the Krootox, but it was enough to break them. I can't say that I would want to have to count on Kroot for THAT heavy lifting every time, but it worked.

If you don't rely on tanks, the Deathstar is LESS scary. But even in this example, it was a squeeker.

Powerful powerful unit, that Deathstar is. Killed two units and did a number on my third but even so, I lost far less points and used far less to get it done. So I felt good about it.

I don't think you can rely on your opponent being brain dead enough to get his Farsight unit within charge range of multiple Kroot (or whatever) units very often. That's just ridiculous. I obviously don't know how your opponent's army is constructed, but in my Tau armies, I've become a bit of a pie plate freak. If I somehow HAD to get my Farsight bomb in that awful position, for whatever reason, you could count on those Kroot units eating some pretty substantial firepower to thin them out, likely to the point of insignificance.

FYI, just running the numbers, you'd kill about 11 drones if you charged with a maxed Kroot unit - 20 Kroot, 3 Krootoxes (oxen?), and 10 hounds - and would then eat roughly 10 wounds in return from the suits alone. I'd call that a reasonably balanced combat despite all the unlikely advantages being in favor of the Kroot. The units also have equal initiative, assuming you had a Kroot hound around somewhere, so even after your opponent failed his Ld 8 check, you still didn't have an amazing shot at sweeping him. Basically, a combo of colossally bad tactics by your opponent and pretty dang good luck by you led to a catastrophic result. Like you said, I'm not sure relying on Kroot - or any other units - to get that job done would be wise.

Brain dead? Are you even analyzing whats being said?

I said... he went first. Which means... He deployed first. Which means... He hd no say in the matter. I INFILTRATED after he DEPLOYED. So if he wanted a target, it was going to be on my terms. Remember? And if he wants to fire a bunch of meltas and plasma and such at entrenched kroot in cover, he wouldn't have killed the Riptide he wanted dead. He had choices. He killed his target. Then he died.

This had nothing to do with him being "brain dead". It was him not having a choice. Also, hounds give you high init on the sweep if they are in the majoirty. Just a reminder.

And here's the thing: it happened. It worked. So if you're looking for answers this is one.

And averages are great on paper my friend but it just doesn't always happen that way...bout 50% of the time I'd say. lol.

 Jancoran wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


You're not understanding. You charge with the normal unit, then hit the Farsun with the real threat. Losing the one pays for itself.

I did this tonight actually. I infiltrated two kroot units and then, after he came up and tried to kill the Riptides (He got one), the Kroot both charged after I hit the unit with Pathfinder Rail Ridles+Carbines. He nearly killed all the kroot from one unit and the other unit swarmed him. Swept him. Not easy to do, only won by 2 thanks to the Krootox, but it was enough to break them. I can't say that I would want to have to count on Kroot for THAT heavy lifting every time, but it worked.

If you don't rely on tanks, the Deathstar is LESS scary. But even in this example, it was a squeeker.

Powerful powerful unit, that Deathstar is. Killed two units and did a number on my third but even so, I lost far less points and used far less to get it done. So I felt good about it.

I don't think you can rely on your opponent being brain dead enough to get his Farsight unit within charge range of multiple Kroot (or whatever) units very often. That's just ridiculous. I obviously don't know how your opponent's army is constructed, but in my Tau armies, I've become a bit of a pie plate freak. If I somehow HAD to get my Farsight bomb in that awful position, for whatever reason, you could count on those Kroot units eating some pretty substantial firepower to thin them out, likely to the point of insignificance.

FYI, just running the numbers, you'd kill about 11 drones if you charged with a maxed Kroot unit - 20 Kroot, 3 Krootoxes (oxen?), and 10 hounds - and would then eat roughly 10 wounds in return from the suits alone. I'd call that a reasonably balanced combat despite all the unlikely advantages being in favor of the Kroot. The units also have equal initiative, assuming you had a Kroot hound around somewhere, so even after your opponent failed his Ld 8 check, you still didn't have an amazing shot at sweeping him. Basically, a combo of colossally bad tactics by your opponent and pretty dang good luck by you led to a catastrophic result. Like you said, I'm not sure relying on Kroot - or any other units - to get that job done would be wise.

Brain dead? Are you even analyzing whats being said?

I said... he went first. Which means... He deployed first. Which means... He hd no say in the matter. I INFILTRATED after he DEPLOYED. So if he wanted a target, it was going to be on my terms. Remember? And if he wants to fire a bunch of meltas and plasma and such at entrenched kroot in cover, he wouldn't have killed the Riptide he wanted dead. He had choices. He killed his target. Then he died.

This had nothing to do with him being "brain dead". It was him not having a choice. Also, hounds give you high init on the sweep if they are in the majoirty. Just a reminder.

And here's the thing: it happened. It worked. So if you're looking for answers this is one.

And averages are great on paper my friend but it just doesn't always happen that way...bout 50% of the time I'd say. lol.

i agree with what was said before, your opponent didnt play well unless your not telling everything.

Was his a fully kitted out 1000pt farsight shadowsun star?

Did he not kroot wrap his deathstar unit? or did he and you killed it all off?

If I know my enemmy is infiltrating units like what you just described my 4 units of kroot become a four layer onion wrap....

He does have choices, always choices.

more options shoot the kroot and then assault them so you are in combat for his shooting phase.

another option, shoot enough kroot and manuever so only 1 unit can realistically get into the combat or you make the charge range for one of them a chancy bet.

assault the kroot with your own riptides.

choices!

Brain dead? Are you even analyzing whats being said?

I said... he went first. Which means... He deployed first. Which means... He hd no say in the matter. I INFILTRATED after he DEPLOYED. So if he wanted a target, it was going to be on my terms. Remember? And if he wants to fire a bunch of meltas and plasma and such at entrenched kroot in cover, he wouldn't have killed the Riptide he wanted dead. He had choices. He killed his target. Then he died.

This had nothing to do with him being "brain dead". It was him not having a choice. Also, hounds give you high init on the sweep if they are in the majoirty. Just a reminder.

And here's the thing: it happened. It worked. So if you're looking for answers this is one.

And averages are great on paper my friend but it just doesn't always happen that way...bout 50% of the time I'd say. lol.

There are a lot of things that work once.. that doesn't mean they should be attempted as even bad players get lucky sometimes. I frankly don't see how he didn't have a choice, who cares if you infiltrated? He saw the two kroot units in charge range and decided to move up then get charged.. Seems silly to not just eradicate the two kroot units with a bunch of ignore cover weapons.

So he had a choice but choose the disastrously worse of the two. Hence why the other poster made the "brain dead" . A farsight bomb unit doesn't give a damn about kroot in cover.

I once won a game where I didn't lose a single model, so based on a sample size of one everything I did that game was correct!

Also, while your average may be different from roll to roll there are ways to create steady curves such as twin linking your weapons to avoid deviation. I would say with the farsight bomb the averages are going to be very predictive of what you'll get due to twin-linking.

 Jancoran wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


You're not understanding. You charge with the normal unit, then hit the Farsun with the real threat. Losing the one pays for itself.

I did this tonight actually. I infiltrated two kroot units and then, after he came up and tried to kill the Riptides (He got one), the Kroot both charged after I hit the unit with Pathfinder Rail Ridles+Carbines. He nearly killed all the kroot from one unit and the other unit swarmed him. Swept him. Not easy to do, only won by 2 thanks to the Krootox, but it was enough to break them. I can't say that I would want to have to count on Kroot for THAT heavy lifting every time, but it worked.

If you don't rely on tanks, the Deathstar is LESS scary. But even in this example, it was a squeeker.

Powerful powerful unit, that Deathstar is. Killed two units and did a number on my third but even so, I lost far less points and used far less to get it done. So I felt good about it.

I don't think you can rely on your opponent being brain dead enough to get his Farsight unit within charge range of multiple Kroot (or whatever) units very often. That's just ridiculous. I obviously don't know how your opponent's army is constructed, but in my Tau armies, I've become a bit of a pie plate freak. If I somehow HAD to get my Farsight bomb in that awful position, for whatever reason, you could count on those Kroot units eating some pretty substantial firepower to thin them out, likely to the point of insignificance.

FYI, just running the numbers, you'd kill about 11 drones if you charged with a maxed Kroot unit - 20 Kroot, 3 Krootoxes (oxen?), and 10 hounds - and would then eat roughly 10 wounds in return from the suits alone. I'd call that a reasonably balanced combat despite all the unlikely advantages being in favor of the Kroot. The units also have equal initiative, assuming you had a Kroot hound around somewhere, so even after your opponent failed his Ld 8 check, you still didn't have an amazing shot at sweeping him. Basically, a combo of colossally bad tactics by your opponent and pretty dang good luck by you led to a catastrophic result. Like you said, I'm not sure relying on Kroot - or any other units - to get that job done would be wise.

Brain dead? Are you even analyzing whats being said?

I said... he went first. Which means... He deployed first. Which means... He hd no say in the matter. I INFILTRATED after he DEPLOYED. So if he wanted a target, it was going to be on my terms. Remember? And if he wants to fire a bunch of meltas and plasma and such at entrenched kroot in cover, he wouldn't have killed the Riptide he wanted dead. He had choices. He killed his target. Then he died.

This had nothing to do with him being "brain dead". It was him not having a choice. Also, hounds give you high init on the sweep if they are in the majoirty. Just a reminder.

And here's the thing: it happened. It worked. So if you're looking for answers this is one.

And averages are great on paper my friend but it just doesn't always happen that way...bout 50% of the time I'd say. lol.

Whats this no choice thing you speak of????? Whats this he could only choose to target one of two units thing you speak of??????? Both of those sound like silly options that I don't play with personally.

From the very limited info you gave here is where he failed:
-did not support bomb, wasting the biggest strength of the tau.
-did not move away from close enemies (seriously with jetpacks any play that gets caught in cc by something like kroot deserve the shameful fate awaiting them)
-did not take target locks to kill both the riptide and wipe the kroot off the board
-wasted all available supporting fire on first thing to charge as if an infant coulds see plain as day that a second squad is about to charge as well.

That is just off the top of my head, I'm sure an expert, which I am not, could point out more things he did wrong. Yes it worked for you, so does taking candy from a baby, that does not make it a reliable or even advisable way to try for.

 Kirasu wrote:
Brain dead? Are you even analyzing whats being said?

IAlso, while your average may be different from roll to roll there are ways to create steady curves such as twin linking your weapons to avoid deviation. I would say with the farsight bomb the averages are going to be very predictive of what you'll get due to twin-linking.

Kirasu!!

This so THIS!!

One of the things i find most devestating about the farsight shadowsun unit is you get rid of alot of the dice gods fun.

Since you are ignoring cover/armor in most cases, and are twin linked you can actually play the averages and predict the outcome of any fire fight.

They EFFICIENTLY do EXACTLY what you want them to do everytime.

They are very powerful.

I C

If he deploys first and wraps his kroot around him (he had Fire Warriors, not Kroot so in his case, woulda been FW's) and jumps over them to fire on the Riptide... he then must jump back...and thats a HUGE blob of a unit. He can't JUST jump over entirely NOR back in a big clump (safely) unless he wants to risk all the large blasts.

But lets say he planned to wrap them anyways, despite the logistical poblem of jumping a unit that size over a wall of FW's. There's a guarantee that he'd not make it with all of them if hs still wants to avoid a charge, and a he'd not be able to spread like he wants.

I RESPECT the opinion that he might have wanted to TRY to wrap them, But I think the GLOBE of that unit is so large that its impractical to hope the jump packs work perfectly. They'd end up on top of models and that sort of thing and clumped. This is bad.

If he moves his FW's first as a shell, terrain would (in this case) have slowed them potentially for the same reasons he hoped I would be slowed. There again a practical consideration. So if the FW's dont move far enough, they get in the way of the Farsun units movement and its a tangled mess cosing a lot of shots potentially. If the jump back move tanks, well... All the worse.

But sure... In the perfect world, he might well have been able to "shell" his unit back up behind the Fire Warriors. That's not how it played out and I forced the issue, successfully but yes, he could have tried it.

Then again, what if's dont win games. Over confidence DOES lose them though. Such as beleiving there is no answer to Farsun. You can "waste" an awful lot of points wasting the Farsuns and the effort and expenditure will never be wasted.

Calling him brain dead...entirely different matter. Thats just arguing in poor faith and slinging names at people you dont even KNOW.

This is a very good thing to talk about because the Farsun is GOING to show up at tournies. Cheeky people abound. ignoring a plan that can (and did) work seems...foolhardy.

How well does Mech IG stand up the Tau Star?

 Jancoran wrote:
I C

If he deploys first and wraps his kroot around him (he had Fire Warriors, not Kroot so in his case, woulda been FW's) and jumps over them to fire on the Riptide... he then must jump back...and thats a HUGE blob of a unit. He can't JUST jump over entirely NOR back in a big clump (safely) unless he wants to risk all the large blasts.

But lets say he planned to wrap them anyways, despite the logistical poblem of jumping a unit that size over a wall of FW's. There's a guarantee that he'd not make it with all of them if hs still wants to avoid a charge, and a he'd not be able to spread like he wants.

I RESPECT the opinion that he might have wanted to TRY to wrap them, But I think the GLOBE of that unit is so large that its impractical to hope the jump packs work perfectly. They'd end up on top of models and that sort of thing and clumped. This is bad.

If he moves his FW's first as a shell, terrain would (in this case) have slowed them potentially for the same reasons he hoped I would be slowed. There again a practical consideration. So if the FW's dont move far enough, they get in the way of the Farsun units movement and its a tangled mess cosing a lot of shots potentially. If the jump back move tanks, well... All the worse.

But sure... In the perfect world, he might well have been able to "shell" his unit back up behind the Fire Warriors. That's not how it played out and I forced the issue, successfully but yes, he could have tried it.

Then again, what if's dont win games. Over confidence DOES lose them though. Such as beleiving there is no answer to Farsun. You can "waste" an awful lot of points wasting the Farsuns and the effort and expenditure will never be wasted.

Calling him brain dead...entirely different matter. Thats just arguing in poor faith and slinging names at people you dont even KNOW.

This is a very good thing to talk about because the Farsun is GOING to show up at tournies. Cheeky people abound. ignoring a plan that can (and did) work seems...foolhardy.

if you infilitrated kroot why in the world does he need to jump forward over firewarriors? makes no sense, they should be in range.....regardless if its a true farsun deathstar then shadowsun is the warlord so jsj is on 3d6 (average 10") so if they could jump 6" over then they can damn sure jump 10" back.....

I mean two units of 23? kroot is what you had at his front door and he went after a riptide? really?

In my defense i use the farsun star and have won 6 games in a row, and based on my experience, and my tactics/strategy their is a slim to non chance that two units of max kroot will be a danger to me.

I would wipe one unit from the board and assault the other to protect me from riptide shots.

Here would be my shot break down

10 drones farsight 1 fusion from shadowsun into the kroot unit 1
20x str 5 ap 5 will kill...13
14x plasma will kil....9
4x fusion will kill... 3
8x missiles kill...5

OR
I shoot the 20x drone shots, 1 farsight plasma, 1 shadowsun plasma into one unit...killing 15
the other 6(12) plasma, 3 fusion, and 8 missiles into the other kroot unit kill....14

THEN assault 1 with fire warriors/riptide

OR

just shoot both thining them....

both squads neutered, let him charge me with those....hell id set up to let him charge, nueral jammer 1 of the units.......couple more die from shooting at me before charge.....


CHOICES!





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spartan089 wrote:
How well does Mech IG stand up the Tau Star?

I THINK SOME IG LISTS HAVE MERIT

If you can get massive shooting at 36" range you can volume of fire them, do autocannons shoot 36" and can you take...like 20-30 of em?

I dont know IG that well, nor play them that often, but if they have any large blast ap 3 that ignore cover....spam it.

Anything that doesnt ignore cover is not going to do much regardless of how high its strength is but str 8 is obviously thr sweet spot.

I have seen two very good lists that are dangerous

If you get blasts/large blasts that ignore cover and a space amrine librarian to precience them for reroll they do ok.....an IG player told me though that basilikster/earth shaker carriages dont ignore cover....so its not the dangerous.

You can also spam vendettas/vultures(who doesnt this work on?)...that works BUT THE TAU still have a chance. I am going to play agains a list like that this weekend here is his cheese list.

it will have 4? vendettas/vultures and 4-6 earthshaker carriages i think....as well as a ton of sabre platforms in the ig blobs for like 10 twin linked lascannons (MAYBE MORE)

Oh the irony that this supposed unstoppable bomb is still raped by 400 points of rune priests makes me laugh. Jaws literally makes this unit run and hide, my standard wolf list runs 2 priests typically but recently I have been running 3 and am contemplating the 4th.

Riptides.... Suits, they are all i2 except far-sight who will still fail 33% of the time.

Deathstars are still deathstars, they do mass damage and are resilient but they don't win objectives. Draigowing only sees comp play because the unit scores, sorry but tossing 1000+ points at one unit that can't score is a fun but less then optimal strategy. At 1500 if your taking riptides you seriously are lacking scoring bodies.

I run 3 rune priests in my Space Wolf army! My wolves used to be Tau's biggest nightmare, with RP's in drop pods and missile-spam long fangs.

I once played a Tau player at the Ard Boyz tournament. Turn 1, I drop both RP's in 2 separate pods, jaws 2 units of 3 broadsides, killed 2 in each unit and then both of them ran off the table!

Of course it's been a while since I last played my wolves. Nowadays, those Riptides may make it much more challenging for the wolves, especially if you give them both skyfire and interceptor.

Hey, that reminds me of one of the best Tau/SW battle reports that I've seen recently:

1500pt Solar Wolves vs GundamWing Tau

 jy2 wrote:
I run 3 rune priests in my Space Wolf army! My wolves used to be Tau's biggest nightmare, with RP's in drop pods and missile-spam long fangs.

I once played a Tau player at the Ard Boyz tournament. Turn 1, I drop both RP's in 2 separate pods, jaws 2 units of 3 broadsides, killed 2 in each unit and then both of them ran off the table!

Of course it's been a while since I last played my wolves. Nowadays, those Riptides may make it much more challenging for the wolves, especially if you give them both skyfire and interceptor.

Hey, that reminds me of one of the best Tau/SW battle reports that I've seen recently:

1500pt Solar Wolves vs GundamWing Tau

Exactly, I still love my wolves as they counter a lot of new army builds and old resurfacing ones (tyranids) and while riptides and broadsides may have access to skyfire, this isn't an easy counter as interceptor is at crummy BS3 and if you position your RP correctly behind the pod you can jaws the RT base without him even seeing you

I killed off a farsight bomb with my daemons. He for some reason decided to deep strike him so I ran my 3 squads of daemonettes and 3 seekers as spread out as I possibly could. My 2 skull cannons and soulgrinder made his kroot mostly dead first round. He dropped his farsight bomb and killed off a unit of seekers and daemonettes completely and almost finished another one while his riptides whittled down another squad of seekers and one skull cannon. Unfortunately for him his jump roll was only 5". Third turn I assaulted first with the almost dead unit of daemonettes and somehow got the herald in though the rest of the squad was wasted. Then I charged with the 2 mostly alive units of seekers and a full squad of daemonettes, dumped a bucket of dice on the.table and called it good.

Funny thing about rune priests in drop pods:

They do not generate warp charge points until the start a turn on the board as per raw.

That is an awful long time to live against the tau. Have fun with it. My tau continue to laugh at rune priests. If you were running them up in land raiders I would be more worried.

cryhavok wrote:
Funny thing about rune priests in drop pods:

They do not generate warp charge points until the start a turn on the board as per raw.

That is an awful long time to live against the tau. Have fun with it. My tau continue to laugh at rune priests. If you were running them up in land raiders I would be more worried.

Ingesting, I don't know anyone who plays it this way. I wouldn't expect to get a favorable tourney ruling on it.

Pony_law wrote:

cryhavok wrote:
Funny thing about rune priests in drop pods:

They do not generate warp charge points until the start a turn on the board as per raw.

That is an awful long time to live against the tau. Have fun with it. My tau continue to laugh at rune priests. If you were running them up in land raiders I would be more worried.

Ingesting, I don't know anyone who plays it this way. I wouldn't expect to get a favorable tourney ruling on it.

Yea because he is actually completely wrong

 Red Corsair wrote:

Pony_law wrote:

cryhavok wrote:
Funny thing about rune priests in drop pods:

They do not generate warp charge points until the start a turn on the board as per raw.

That is an awful long time to live against the tau. Have fun with it. My tau continue to laugh at rune priests. If you were running them up in land raiders I would be more worried.

Ingesting, I don't know anyone who plays it this way. I wouldn't expect to get a favorable tourney ruling on it.

Yea because he is actually completely wrong

Wrong?
-Psykers generate warp charge points at start of turn
-Reserve rules state you can not use any special abilities or rules that are used at the start of turn, the turn they come into play
-psyker is a special rule

Unless I am missing some permission in a faq or over looked something, I am not wrong.

I do hope that the rule against this though for the sake of my tzeentch chaos deamons who really dislike it. However, as we are discussing the, arguably, most cheese power being used against one of the most cheese units, I think Ill stick with raw till it gets ruled otherwise.

cryhavok wrote:
Funny thing about rune priests in drop pods:

They do not generate warp charge points until the start a turn on the board as per raw.

That is an awful long time to live against the tau. Have fun with it. My tau continue to laugh at rune priests. If you were running them up in land raiders I would be more worried.

it doesn't matter, between murderous hurricane and tempest wraith, Now 1/6 of the deathstar take a wound on entry, and on the thrust move. Plus they are now limited to one dice worth of movement. So they can't escape as easily and are taking his without the rune priest doing much.

Now you could start the deathstar on the table to avoid the 24' bubble, but then you aren't as effective initially. Rune Priests with a bikes or jumppacks moves up, jaws the Riptides. Even if you kill them, you just lost your 250 pt unit to a 125 pt unit. Given terrain, it is quite possible that one could be completely out of the line of return fire.

Since when does generating charges require you to be in play? It simply states when they generate them and how many otherwise the whole FAQ that states controlling players can choose which order to manifest blessing and have reserves arrive in regards to psychers would be utterly pointless. So yea, your totally wrong, and your opinion on cheese is irrelevant.

I'll stick with the general consensus from every national tournament or do you think it's all been a farce watching players psychic shriek the doom from reserve at every major tournament nationwide?

Space wolve Jotww is not that scary as already discussed in this very thread.....

Suits get to separate themselves with drones so your line can hit very few suits indeed.

If i saw 4 rune priests I would just deploy in a line across the board, good luck with your 1 suit.....

Furthermore they will get intercepted by both my riptides on entry.

you also protect the riptides by making sure they cant drop within 24" of him as best you can....which is likely challenging....the riptide vs jaws discussion was in another guys thread on riptides the new helldrake thread.

Note - this is theory hammer for me as I have not faced a wolf list yet.

furthermore, this may be one of those lists you deep strike against going second depending on the make up of the rest o fhis army.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Since when does generating charges require you to be in play? It simply states when they generate them and how many otherwise the whole FAQ that states controlling players can choose which order to manifest blessing and have reserves arrive in regards to psychers would be utterly pointless. So yea, your totally wrong, and your opinion on cheese is irrelevant.

I'll stick with the general consensus from every national tournament or do you think it's all been a farce watching players psychic shriek the doom from reserve at every major tournament nationwide?

generating charges is part of the psyker special rules, rules that you can not use the turn you arive from reserves according to the reserves rules in the brb. As to that faq, there are ways of getting blessings without spending warp charg points, for example, eldar warlocks, halequin shadowseers, and the blue scribes all manifest powers without expending warp charges. As to the doom using psychic shriek, no fault of thier own if no one at all realized this, maybe the doom should stick to using spirit leech right out the gate as it isnt a psychic power, also most of the dooms I have played against went biomancy, not telepathy.

Theorius wrote:

if you infilitrated kroot why in the world does he need to jump forward over firewarriors? makes no sense, they should be in range.....regardless if its a true farsun deathstar then shadowsun is the warlord so jsj is on 3d6 (average 10") so if they could jump 6" over then they can damn sure jump 10" back.....

I mean two units of 23? kroot is what you had at his front door and he went after a riptide? really?

In my defense i use the farsun star and have won 6 games in a row, and based on my experience, and my tactics/strategy their is a slim to non chance that two units of max kroot will be a danger to me.

I would wipe one unit from the board and assault the other to protect me from riptide shots.

Here would be my shot break down

10 drones farsight 1 fusion from shadowsun into the kroot unit 1
20x str 5 ap 5 will kill...13
14x plasma will kil....9
4x fusion will kill... 3
8x missiles kill...5

OR
I shoot the 20x drone shots, 1 farsight plasma, 1 shadowsun plasma into one unit...killing 15
the other 6(12) plasma, 3 fusion, and 8 missiles into the other kroot unit kill....14

THEN assault 1 with fire warriors/riptide

OR

just shoot both thining them....

both squads neutered, let him charge me with those....hell id set up to let him charge, nueral jammer 1 of the units.......couple more die from shooting at me before charge.....


CHOICES!

IM somewhat dumbfounded. You're STILL not understanding. He deployed. He wanted the Riptides dead. Two of them at BS 8 are quite a threat, which is what I field with my Markerlight swarm doing the assist. He's felt their caress before. So he tried to take one out and succeeded (as one would expect). I then mobbed him and killed the Deathstar. This is not complicated. He saw that he was surrounded and there was at least the LIKELIHOOD he could be charged with 1, maybe even two units. He bet that he could kill one (and nearly did) on overwatch and he might WELL win combat against the other. So he took his shot in a bad situation, at what he knew would ream the REST of his army LATER if he did not. It didn't work out for him. His game was effectively over in round 1 even though it took two more turns to confirm it.

And thats what happens sometimes. This is the risk you run. That unit is a ROAD GRADER of a unit so if the enemy doesn't HAVE units like these, could be a rough day at the office. Thats why allies are cool.

Same thing would happen to that same Deathstar if an IG player with a Psyker Battle squad had faced the Deathstar. The Deathstar unit would be done for on round 1 potentially (but hey the vagaries of war are many so you never know...Could deny the witch or something cool like that).

Now if YOURE confident that YOU will never fall prey to this... Don't worry about it. For everyone else interested in POSSIBILITIES... I present to you these two.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

cryhavok wrote:

From the very limited info you gave here is where he failed:
-did not support bomb, wasting the biggest strength of the tau.
-did not move away from close enemies (seriously with jetpacks any play that gets caught in cc by something like kroot deserve the shameful fate awaiting them)
-did not take target locks to kill both the riptide and wipe the kroot off the board
-wasted all available supporting fire on first thing to charge as if an infant coulds see plain as day that a second squad is about to charge as well.

That is just off the top of my head, I'm sure an expert, which I am not, could point out more things he did wrong. Yes it worked for you, so does taking candy from a baby, that does not make it a reliable or even advisable way to try for.

As a self proclaimed non-expert, allow me to explain this:

--"supporting" the bomb happened. His drones were nearby within 6" as were fire warriors. Ergo, they ended the Kroot just about. Markerlights fired first, hit three times, and he stole my cover save from me and then blasted me with his amped up BS. Fire Warriors barely contributed. He did exactly as he ought to, given that he couldn't stop my infiltration. Most of the Kroot died On OVERWATCH. Brutal. Failed the charge. Second unit didn't. That is the point.

--He had to move up to HIT the Riptides. He was confident he could bounce back far enough, which didn't happen. Would have had to have rolled quite well in any event given the Kroot hounds.

--Not enough fire to do that. Riptides at long range, he's only getting his single plasma shots, Drones and some missiless. He succeeded anyways, because: Markerlights. and in case it wasn't obvious to you, you have to announbce your shots at the same time. all members of the unit fire simultaneously. He tried to kill BOTH Riptides and/or pin one and trusted his Overwatch. Just didn't work out in the end.

- All that was AVAILABLE for damaging shots on were Fire Warriors and his Deathstar (and Drones , but no damage).

Now here's the thing: It hardly matters. The strategy is sound and if you see an opportunity to do it, you should. If your army cant do it, you'll need another answer. Critiquing the opponent does ZERO here. He had no crystal ball. Your perfect hindsight is kind of cool though. He wishes he had THAT when he played me.

I wonder how farsight bomb would react to masque deepstriking within 12" of it