Theorius wrote:

shogun wrote:
I know you speak on behalve of the “tau farsight promotion team” but saying stuff like: I use my coversave against heavy flamers doesn’t really count as a good argument.

Also like your other counter argument: Give a list of all the armies you have beaten.

I’am also not saying: My furioso will kill it..no problem. The list I gave are good examples of units that decide their own position on the field with deep strike or coming out of reserves. The can either decide to shoot from a particular angle or use template weapons/ignore cover or both. You simply say: “o well, I just form a big line, no problem!” but that effects your placement, moving, shooting range etc. A big line cannot be fielded in a whole piece of terrain (at least not the terrain iam using) without getting foccused fired upon. You can rely on your interceptor but you will also scatter at the time you need it the most.

You want more substance? Lets take 2 flying hive tyrants with devourers.. If theirs terrain that completly covers them the get to be deployed. If not (and tau got first turn) the can come out of reserve on a 2+ (Hive commander). Both fly 24 inch shoot 18 inch and got two biomancy powers. Theirs a good chance that one got iron arm and/or enfeeble. With enfeeble those suits only got Toughness 3. 2x12 twin linked devourer shots with presicion shot will mean about 6 hits/5 wounds that instant kill on your sensor dude. Devourers give -1 on your morale check so its also possible the run away. Even interceptor cannot take down those Hive tyrant first turn. Thats if everything goes well! The suffer from the same problem as deathstars. If sumthing goes wrong (psychic test) than it can all fall apart. Still…the could give the farsight bomb a hard time.

armor saves vs heavy flamer not cover (i said armor)

your adding the "no problem" part to be snide and I dont appreciate the sarcasm.

the two flyrants - based on the info you gave i agree, they can hurt! I have not faced a flying monsterous in 6th edition so i dont know how effective 6 bs 3 str 7 ap 2 shots or 8bs3twin linked str 5 shots would be in bringing them down with interceptor, but lets just say they get through.

CREDENTIALS - you do not find the fact i actually play the farsight bomb, have done so in 6 games and done massive amounts of reserch (you have been in all my threads) to be enough credentials to find my opinons to be valid, let alone more valid than others who have maybe not even seen the codex let alone played with/against it and saying how they would kill it no problem?

I also like the fact they are characters and can use precision to pick out the commander! good strategy. Are we assuming only one flyrant gets that enfeeble psychic power, is it in the same chart as iron arm? the chart has 6 right and they each get 2 powers?

so one of them gets it his 12 shots lets assume....3 6s to be saucy, all 3 wound, and he still gets 3+ armor or 2+ cover, but if you get him......that would suck.....but i still like my chances.

edit --- duh enfeeble effects the unit so both flyrants would take advantage....

so 24 shots....5-6 precision hits....5 wound....that is more likely to guarantee a kill on the commander, which would also remove stubborn, and your lowering leadership....hmm....i like this actually and it is something people often take.

Coyote81 wrote:
You can't precision strike shadowsun, she always pass LOS test in the bodyguard unit.

 Jackal wrote:
The whole bomb works so well simply because there arent any really weak links in the unit.
Usually you will have a large deathstar with basic models in it.
The farsight/sun bomb works simpy because every model has a use.

Removing any part of it at range is near on impossible when playing against a smart opponant.

The best counter for it is other tau.
You need a way to remove cover, then pour a high volume of shots into the unit.

Other armies may have some quirks, but these are far from reliable.


Its quick, hits hard against any unit in the game and it can soak up a ton of fire power.
Thats what makes it a good unit.

rule question: If shadowsun or farsight didn't have anybody within 3 inch anymore can the still 'look out sire'? Dunno,

 Jackal wrote:
The whole bomb works so well simply because there arent any really weak links in the unit.
Usually you will have a large deathstar with basic models in it.
The farsight/sun bomb works simpy because every model has a use.

Removing any part of it at range is near on impossible when playing against a smart opponant.

The best counter for it is other tau.
You need a way to remove cover, then pour a high volume of shots into the unit.

Other armies may have some quirks, but these are far from reliable.


Its quick, hits hard against any unit in the game and it can soak up a ton of fire power.
Thats what makes it a good unit.

Minijack wrote:
I play mainly IG now but have a large selection of Orks to add in as needed.

Next time out I plan to try my new Psyker battle squad starting in the Bastion(will need to head to the roof to do the demoralizing speal of course),then go for pinning with my Basalisk/Gryphon ordinance battery along with some mortars maybe even some snipers?

Also.Zogwart is askin...which one does he squig first?

anonymou5 wrote:
The whole bomb works so well simply because there arent any really weak links in the unit.
Usually you will have a large deathstar with basic models in it.
The farsight/sun bomb works simpy because every model has a use.

Removing any part of it at range is near on impossible when playing against a smart opponant.

The best counter for it is other tau.
You need a way to remove cover, then pour a high volume of shots into the unit.

Other armies may have some quirks, but these are far from reliable.


Its quick, hits hard against any unit in the game and it can soak up a ton of fire power.
Thats what makes it a good unit.


I'm starting to think Demons are the counter, actually. Maybe it's just because I've been messing around with a Demon list, but the codex seems to have a lot of answers to the bomb. Flying circus can vector Strike and then Psychic Shriek/Smite/Bolt of Change/etc So many ways to charge a temporarily durable unit in (Hounds under grimoire would be the best, imo). Enough mobility to corner the bomb and make it hurt.

Theorius wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:
The whole bomb works so well simply because there arent any really weak links in the unit.
Usually you will have a large deathstar with basic models in it.
The farsight/sun bomb works simpy because every model has a use.

Removing any part of it at range is near on impossible when playing against a smart opponant.

The best counter for it is other tau.
You need a way to remove cover, then pour a high volume of shots into the unit.

Other armies may have some quirks, but these are far from reliable.


Its quick, hits hard against any unit in the game and it can soak up a ton of fire power.
Thats what makes it a good unit.


I'm starting to think Demons are the counter, actually. Maybe it's just because I've been messing around with a Demon list, but the codex seems to have a lot of answers to the bomb. Flying circus can vector Strike and then Psychic Shriek/Smite/Bolt of Change/etc So many ways to charge a temporarily durable unit in (Hounds under grimoire would be the best, imo). Enough mobility to corner the bomb and make it hurt.

gunline/markerlight dependent tau are not actually that scary (based on one game so far). I faced one this weekend that had 2x4pathfinders, 1x skyray, 1x sniper unit....I went first killed ALL of them in turn 1 and he had no other options to marker me to remove cover and increase his bs. It effectively neutered his entire army.

While the bomb does not rely on markers, and began to eat his entire army. Turn 2 i dropped a riptide and a 9man fire warrior unit + ethereal behind aegis and 2 pirahanas.

IF HE HAD GONE FIRST....Dunno how dangerous it would be for that first turn alpha strike, his remove cover + Ballistic Skill bonus on two riptides might have been nasty.

A tau list i saw in a video battle report was preatty scary actually. The guy made two mini stars. One unit of 3 crisis suits (one commander style) and 1 REAL commander and ANOTHER unit of 3 crisis suits with a farseer on jetbike to give them prescience so they rerolled hits as well and he had rolled misfortune so the enemy rerolled saves, was nice.


If deamons became prevalent in my area or at tournies i would have to resign myself to adding either a farseer on jetbike or a sm librarian with nullzone to counter daemons. Right now I have not had to play against any though, but their are options out their to make the list more resilent to psychic tom foolerie.

Theorius wrote:
CREDENTIALS - you do not find the fact i actually play the farsight bomb, have done so in 6 games and done massive amounts of reserch (you have been in all my threads) to be enough credentials to find my opinons to be valid, let alone more valid than others who have maybe not even seen the codex let alone played with/against it and saying how they would kill it no problem?

 Jackal wrote:
So IG AV13 is the answer (with camo!)?
Sorry shogun, but keep in mind AV13 means nothing when theres usually 6 FB's with re-rolls and tank hunter that can land next to you.

Even if you take 3, it still wont take long to work through them.
Also, dont some of the large cannons have a min range?
Shoot one, blow it up, jump towards the next.

Also, they can move into distance, but dont forget they can jump back afterwards, which is why JSJ is such a great rule.
It seems pretty small, until you look at what impact it can have on games.

shogun wrote:

 Jackal wrote:
So IG AV13 is the answer (with camo!)?
Sorry shogun, but keep in mind AV13 means nothing when theres usually 6 FB's with re-rolls and tank hunter that can land next to you.

Even if you take 3, it still wont take long to work through them.
Also, dont some of the large cannons have a min range?
Shoot one, blow it up, jump towards the next.

Also, they can move into distance, but dont forget they can jump back afterwards, which is why JSJ is such a great rule.
It seems pretty small, until you look at what impact it can have on games.

Its not THE answer but its still a weakness that the bomb cannot shoot down armour 13/14 from afar. You need that 9 inch fusion and if you deepstrike then the enemy could bubblewrap the vehicles. If you do deepstrike with the farsight warlord trait then your not using the shadowsun warlordtrait so your not that fast..

plus:

Its still possible for a barrage weapon to arrive from reserves and shoot their weapon.

I also think that every IG army should have the "officer of the fleet". If the bomb will only arrive with a 4+ the will possibly be to late to the party.

Coyote81 wrote:
So I used the bomb for the first time last night, I was getting destroyed by some bad rolls early on against his daemon prince and some bad estimation on helldrake range.

The bomb even failed to come in turn 2 with comm rerolls.
That was probably for the best, my opponent made a bad mistake.

Turn 3 the squad came down, killed Ahriman 10 1k sons, 2 oblits and a 10man cultists squad. I was kind of amazing. All that dead, and most of it even had inv saves.

Turn 4 it killed another cultist squad, half a 1k sons squad and a helldrake.

Turn 5 it finished the 1k Sons, two oblits another cultist squad.

Kind of silly that I only lost 9 gun drones and one suit with plasma rifles.

Overall I thought I had lost the game easily, and this squad single handly won. Might try it again, but feel it has too many rock/paper/scissor match-ups.

Nobody_Holme wrote:
Despite all the yelling flowing in this thread I shall post an attempt at reasoned discussion.

How does the bomb handle an azrael guardblob?

Can it actually apply the wounds to kill them or whatever is hiding behind them before all that massed S3 kills it even through the T4 and 2+ cover? Especially if there's a primaris in there throwing some form of rerolls or similar?

Opinions from people who are smart enough to think before posting (mathhammer will substitute for that) or be polite only, please.

Coyote81 wrote:
I feel lists that include flying Daemon Princes, and multiple helldrakes may end up being too much for the bomb to handle, mostly due to the fact that I can see deploying the bomb on the table when two flyers that could come in a wipe them out are waiting in reserve. Having to use a lot of my anti-flyer to stop the daemon prince from wrecking my lines, I can see a double daemon prince list giving me some trouble.

TompiQ wrote:

Nobody_Holme wrote:
Despite all the yelling flowing in this thread I shall post an attempt at reasoned discussion.

How does the bomb handle an azrael guardblob?

Can it actually apply the wounds to kill them or whatever is hiding behind them before all that massed S3 kills it even through the T4 and 2+ cover? Especially if there's a primaris in there throwing some form of rerolls or similar?

Opinions from people who are smart enough to think before posting (mathhammer will substitute for that) or be polite only, please.

Assuming 50 guardsmen under FRFSRF and prescience, all within rapid fire range (very unlikely) you net an average 6.25 unsaved wounds in a round of shooting if the bomb is in cover. The bomb, in exchange, nets 17.4 guardsmen killed if within 12". That is with the 4+ inv. save. I wouldn't say it's that valid as a counter. If you bring several blobs, maybe.

Nobody_Holme wrote:
Despite all the yelling flowing in this thread I shall post an attempt at reasoned discussion.

How does the bomb handle an azrael guardblob?

Can it actually apply the wounds to kill them or whatever is hiding behind them before all that massed S3 kills it even through the T4 and 2+ cover? Especially if there's a primaris in there throwing some form of rerolls or similar?

Opinions from people who are smart enough to think before posting (mathhammer will substitute for that) or be polite only, please.

Theorius wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TompiQ wrote:

Nobody_Holme wrote:
Despite all the yelling flowing in this thread I shall post an attempt at reasoned discussion.

How does the bomb handle an azrael guardblob?

Can it actually apply the wounds to kill them or whatever is hiding behind them before all that massed S3 kills it even through the T4 and 2+ cover? Especially if there's a primaris in there throwing some form of rerolls or similar?

Opinions from people who are smart enough to think before posting (mathhammer will substitute for that) or be polite only, please.

Assuming 50 guardsmen under FRFSRF and prescience, all within rapid fire range (very unlikely) you net an average 6.25 unsaved wounds in a round of shooting if the bomb is in cover. The bomb, in exchange, nets 17.4 guardsmen killed if within 12". That is with the 4+ inv. save. I wouldn't say it's that valid as a counter. If you bring several blobs, maybe.

50 guard blobs would not get within shooting range let alone rapid fire range in most cases without being whittled down first. If 50 guardsmen were in rapid fire range, the nueral jammer would cause 16-17 gets hot wounds to them by itself. Also blobs are great targets to assault to ide fro imperial shooting then hit and run away.

Coyote81 wrote:
So I used the bomb for the first time last night, I was getting destroyed by some bad rolls early on against his daemon prince and some bad estimation on helldrake range.

The bomb even failed to come in turn 2 with comm rerolls.
That was probably for the best, my opponent made a bad mistake.

Turn 3 the squad came down, killed Ahriman 10 1k sons, 2 oblits and a 10man cultists squad. I was kind of amazing. All that dead, and most of it even had inv saves.

Turn 4 it killed another cultist squad, half a 1k sons squad and a helldrake.

Turn 5 it finished the 1k Sons, two oblits another cultist squad.

Kind of silly that I only lost 9 gun drones and one suit with plasma rifles.

Overall I thought I had lost the game easily, and this squad single handly won. Might try it again, but feel it has too many rock/paper/scissor match-ups.

 Tuagh wrote:
For those not following the rumor threads, it appears that NewDar may be a hard counter. They have a primaris power that strips shrouding (Confirmed), a viable focused witchfire to pop the important suit, and a nice (very tall) new way to spam S6 AP2 shots. As soon as points values are available and rules are confirmed, the Farsight bomb is likely to be a dead list.

 Exergy wrote:

Coyote81 wrote:
So I used the bomb for the first time last night, I was getting destroyed by some bad rolls early on against his daemon prince and some bad estimation on helldrake range.

The bomb even failed to come in turn 2 with comm rerolls.
That was probably for the best, my opponent made a bad mistake.

Turn 3 the squad came down, killed Ahriman 10 1k sons, 2 oblits and a 10man cultists squad. I was kind of amazing. All that dead, and most of it even had inv saves.

Turn 4 it killed another cultist squad, half a 1k sons squad and a helldrake.

Turn 5 it finished the 1k Sons, two oblits another cultist squad.

Kind of silly that I only lost 9 gun drones and one suit with plasma rifles.

Overall I thought I had lost the game easily, and this squad single handly won. Might try it again, but feel it has too many rock/paper/scissor match-ups.

certainly beating terrible Ahriman 1ksons lists validates the Farsight Deathstar?

Theorius wrote:


reason 1 - Psychic powers have RANGE LIMITS - It only has 18 range, so it will be very hard to get it to land on the deathstar because of reason number 2!!!!! (18" confirmed on 3++ from the battle in the white dwarf))

reason 2 - Psychic powers are before movement (limits your abiltiy to get within range safely since you need to move within)