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You can actually do it, too. There have been players who've used historicals to represent WHFB armies, so they can play that out. Aaron Chapman's Reman Legion is a classic:

http://warhammer-empire.com/warroom/general/reman-legions/

When you say Mid-Romans, what dates/reigns are we talking?

Marius and Sulla? Ceasar conquering Gaul? Octavian at Actium? Constantine at the Milvian Bridge? Since the Roman "Legion" changes a lot over time, I'm curiosu what "mid" means?

I was going Marius...well...before the Legion became a Foreign Legion literally

Misread the title as Roman Legions vs. The IMPERIUM of Man.

Thread was way better that way.

 Easy E wrote:
When you say Mid-Romans, what dates/reigns are we talking?

Marius and Sulla? Ceasar conquering Gaul? Octavian at Actium? Constantine at the Milvian Bridge? Since the Roman "Legion" changes a lot over time, I'm curiosu what "mid" means?

Technically Mid-Republican is 2nd and 3rd Punic. Marius marks the either the late republican era or the beginning of the Imperial era. The quote in the OP is about Manipular legions which makes it pre-Marian reforms so before 107 BCE.

How did a fight between romans and the Empire end up in 40k discussions?

Empire Wizards can call down magical meteorites from low orbit. How are the Romans supposed to oppose orbital kinetic bombardment? 'Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.'

So do you mean WHFB Empire wizards are guardsmen with very good vox-casters?

Why in 40k background?

Why in 40k at all?

 George Spiggott wrote:
Misread the title as Roman Legions vs. The IMPERIUM of Man.

Thread was way better that way.

Much shorter, too.

The Romans did ok with the phalanx, but that's so much hamburger in a block for a whiff of grapeshot from a cannon. You'd lose entire legions in mere minutes.

..hmm.. t'would seem likely that this would fit better in the WFB boards than the 40k one.

Apologies for the confusion/misfiling.

Romans might be able to overcome their fear of artillery but seeing the imperial dragon flying overhead burning their wooden contraptions and with gryphons making strafe runs through the ranks (like the nazgul on plenenor fields) gelt on his pegesis turning them all to gold. Armoured knights smashing into them (again plenenor fields when rohan charges). Romans would be extremely screwed

Can anyone explain to me why the Roman Legion is travelling through Britain in order to fight Sigmar's Empire?

 Jihadin wrote:
What size caliber of ball on the musket though....mixture of smooth bore or grooved? they have mini? or ball or did they do the Irish BDE from the American Civil War and went in with smooth bore but loaded with ball and shot. I think the romans would overcome their fear of the powder weapons and incorporate it into future tactical and strategic? Actually turning thoughts here on it. Sorcery though that be iffy. Off the top of my head is to pin point the sorcerer and slam as many cav, arrows and legionaires at him/her....or lay a sniper figuring the sorcerer has to have a clear line of sight...be iffy to. Can the romans hire out?

The Romans don't have any familiarity with magic at this point so even identifying the sorcerer in the heat of battle is going to be nigh on impossible. They will bear similarities to the British Druids and Saxon wizards perhaps so they might recognise them but Saxon wizards and British Druids are commonly depicted as capering about in front of the army before the battle, madly screaming and exhorting their gods. They felt pretty safe in the knowledge that the enemy is either too frightened of them or lacks the ranged weaponry to kill them. Epirus wizards wouldn't make it that easy.

We're also discounting empire state troops with halberds and such. I know that the roman legions were good but the backbone of an empire army is also well trained and disciplined. What would happen is the romans would take a right pounding from artillery and magic and then whats left of their infantry would lose to disciplined state troops. Even though a roman legionnaire probably has an advantage in a straight infantry battle, when the cannon balls and magic missiles are flying and then the enemy's troops are well drilled and disciplined I don't think the romans would stand.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
The range of an empire cannon would outrange anything the romans can send in to counter-fire, so expecting archers to get into range unscathed and in any shape to fight back would be a challenge. A caster would also be well protected; Empire spears would be troublesome for roman cavalry looking to try and pick off any artillery or casters, as would empire halberds and crossbows. For anything more annoying, Outriders could be used with great efficiency.

Fighting in the rain would lessen the power of any damp black powder, but it would still be extremely effective. Bear in mind, however, that casters could completely remove the effects of rain from the Empire troops, whilst making it rain harder upon the roman forces, blocking vision and muddying ground.

Any slow withdraw manoeuvres could be rendered pointless by the Empire simply retreating back themselves. Outriders could then be launched to harass the flanks of the retreating roman army, and perhaps even a mounted caster could be sent along to hurry them up or sow more panic.

The Empire outranges the Romans by a significant amount, their casters add valuable support, their level of technology renders roman armour obsolete, and their weaponry means that someone can be given a handgun or crossbow, pointed at a target, and they can shoot it with just as much accuracy as a trained archer. If we factor in the amount of destruction helstorm rockets or mortars would cause against the tight ranks of romans, then we're looking at the Empire being able to devastate entire columns at a time.

We also haven't factored in things like the Siege Tank. Even in WHFB things struggle to deal with those; I can't imagine the romans would fare any better.

Roman fortifications are also rendered obsolete by gunpowder. Nothing they can construct in a hurry can't be brought low by cannons quickly and from a distance.

Let us not forget, It's not just cannons. One volley from a hellblaster would cripple the morale of anyone nearby. Also, let us not forget that the empire have infantry formations too, just smaller better armored ones with roughly the same standard of training in addition to millitia forces.

Also, freaking monsters. Imagine seeing a man riding a demigryph for the first time. A man in full plate no less, something the romans don't have.

There is no question about this, the Empire wins - period.

1. The empire state regiments are combined forces of battle hardened professional soldiers. They are more than the equal of the romans. They fight orcs! They face magic, gun powder, monsters, night goblin fanatics, vampires, undead - you name it, they've fought it. It is silly to think they are some how less professional or disciplined than the Romans. In fact, the opposite would have to be true to face all of this stuff. The quality of Empire Troops might not be as uniform as the Roman Legions, but also probably significantly over matches the Romans.

2. Properly used and supported Heavy Cavalry will destroy infantry. The Empire absolutely does this time and time again. The Bretonnians might just line up and charge, the Empire will not. They will bring ranged weapons, magic, light cavalry, etc. to facilitate this. One good solid charge from Helborg and the Reiksguard will settle any fight between these two.

3. Technology - good luck with the Steam Tank, Cannons, The Hell Blaster, Mortars, Rifles, etc. Say Adios Caesar.

4. Magic - What are the Romans going to do when an entire legion gets hit with Dweller's Below? It's not like they have their own wizard to frantically dispel. What Roman can stand up to a Runefang?

5. Monsters! - The Imperial Dragon! - Griffons, Wizards on Pegasii, Demi-gryph cavalry. The Romans will not have a chance against any of this stuff. No way - No How.

6. Heroes - Karl Franz riding a griffon wielding the weapon of a god, Kurt Helborg, Schwarzhelm, etc. There is no single Roman who could stand up to any of these guys. Picture this, Karl Franz flies out of the sky into the battle line and begins laying about with Ghal Maraz. He then challenges Caesar. I think we know how that fight ends for Caesar.


Seriously - a bunch of 5 ft. tall foot slogging Italians w/ barbarian allies v. The Heirs of Sigmar! - We all know how this ends.

OK , I dont remember the exact battle but in the American Civil War there was a situation where the confederates had defective fuses in thier cannon shells and were completely unable to do anything about the the Union artillery.

It was complete carnage with the unopposed cannons just wreaking havoc. The romans would just be completely screwed by cannons and mortars.

If i kind track down the battle ill add it but I expect some civil war buff will know this right away.

edit; day 3 Gettysburg, but I thought it was different battle.

QUICK FUNNY OT CANNON BALL STORY

My dad lives in east Tennessee on a farm and his neighbors found an old cannonball from the civil war. They kept it near their fire place for many years. It ended up rolling into the fire place, exploding and causing a lot of damage. No one was seriously hurt by the way.

They are still finding shells in the same general area

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/aug/15/history-shell-of-former-self/