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Can someone provide me a clear definition on the term 'heroic scale?' I did a number of searches for it, but all I can find is a single website that lists 'heroic scale' as synonymous with '25mm scale.' While I can discern most terms like this from context, it seems like most people use 'heroic scale' as code for 'Games Workshop produced minis.'

We did two days of round-n-round over this already, guys. LnR said he was going to take everyone's opinion into consideration, and I for one think that the Raging Heroes team has done a dynamite job of taking and acting on community feedback, so I'm going to continue to give them the benefit of the doubt on this and other issues. They're working on something in regards to this issue even now, so let's wait and see what they come back to us with before we break out our torches and pitchforks again.

Edit: $400,000 crossed, and the first bike unlocked!

Heroic scale means the different models parts are disproportionate and at other scales with each other, so the head, arms and legs are bigger than the body to emphasize the detail on these parts, the weapons are even bigger, essentially if you want to see a pure example of heroic scale, just look at GW models.

At start heroic scaling in the then 25mm was done because the industry was young the sculptors new and the lead used to cast the miniatures too soft to make so thin model parts, this carried on until the recent times, at the moment most new miniature companies and individual sculptors move towards truer to proportion scale, this is aided by increased resilience in casting materials, better moulding technology and increased talent from the sculptors.

Heroic scale is so closely identified with GW because they use it, and they're the industry leader. Any company producing counts-as figures for their games has to follow it to mesh properly (Mantic, etc.).

Aesthetically, it means a specific distortion of the human form: oversized head, hands, feet, and weapons. When GW got started back in the 80s, casting technology dictated this sort of style. Nowadays, it's not necessary. GW products are the best examples, especially things like Catachans. Infinity is a great example of the opposite approach, which is usually termed "realistic scale."

Earlier in the thread, someone posted a picture of a Cadian next to a an actual soldier. That is a good example of how heroic scale is different. Heroic scale is not restricted to a particular height, however (25mm, 28mm, etc.).

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Earlier in the thread, someone posted a picture of a Cadian next to a an actual soldier. That is a good example of how heroic scale is different. Heroic scale is not restricted to a particular height, however (25mm, 28mm, etc.).

Any idea what page? (Or even a rough idea?) I'd be interested to see that picture, because all the arguments for changing the sculpt thus far have been thoroughly unconvincing. People seem really sure of their point of view, though, so I'm still willing to listen.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Earlier in the thread, someone posted a picture of a Cadian next to a an actual soldier. That is a good example of how heroic scale is different. Heroic scale is not restricted to a particular height, however (25mm, 28mm, etc.).

Any idea what page? (Or even a rough idea?) I'd be interested to see that picture, because all the arguments for changing the sculpt thus far have been thoroughly unconvincing. People seem really sure of their point of view, though, so I'm still willing to listen.

http://wfarcadia.blogspot.se/2012/01/matter-of-scalepart-1.html

I am guessing they refer to this image

And there are different degrees of 'heroic scale' Cadians are more distorted than FW guard. I think Cadians look a bit weird, but FW stuff is perfect, and I've never heard anyone complain about their proportions (before this thread anyway), although they are far from realistic.

Some people seem to think that more realistic -> better, but I really do not agree with that, not when it comes to miniatures, game graphics or just art styles in general. And with miniatures you have to take the account the distance you view them too. Realistic might look nice from up close, but on actual gaming table I think somewhat 'heroic' proportions work better.

michelangelo's david is pretty much Hero scale. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_%28Michelangelo%29

And I dont think anyone can bash it

 Crimson wrote:
And there are different degrees of 'heroic scale' Cadians are more distorted than FW guard. I think Cadians look a bit weird, but FW stuff is perfect, and I've never heard anyone complain about their proportions (before this thread anyway), although they are far from realistic.

Some people seem to think that more realistic -> better, but I really do not agree with that, not when it comes to miniatures, game graphics or just art styles in general. And with miniatures you have to take the account the distance you view them too. Realistic might look nice from up close, but on actual gaming table I think somewhat 'heroic' proportions work better.

I understand the need for models to look good from a tabletop distance, but from three feet away, you could cut out half the detail on the models and never know the difference. Exaggeration of features is necessary for this scale, to an extent, but when weapons are as big as the model, feet, heads, and hands are huge, and proportions are skewed to accomplish these features, then that's the "heroic scale" we are talking about (really its more a style, than scale).

I'm confident Raging Heroes will come up with a working solution that will please a good majority of people.

~iPaint

 Darkness wrote:
michelangelo's david is pretty much Hero scale. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_%28Michelangelo%29

And I dont think anyone can bash it

Funny story, the David was supposed to be put on top of a building. The proportions are distorted because it was intended to be viewed from far below it. The local government loved it so much, though, that they kept it on the ground.

 -iPaint- wrote:


I'm confident Raging Heroes will come up with a working solution that will please a good majority of people.

~iPaint

Me too - I just don't want them to be too tall is all!

Yeah, my female commissars, Kurganova sisters do stand above a SM captain, the legs are sooo,,,,,,,leggy! and they are on 6inch heels or so on top of those legs! A fluff based hero of the state has to look up to his commissar literally, not just figuratively as she is a head taller than the IG who also stand as tall as the SM minis which is hilarious enough as is.

Call me a weirdo but from all that I have seen on this KS the thing that interested me the most was the Baby hippo!

 Crimson wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
And heroic scale miniatures are not good looking miniatures.

In your opinion. I disagree. They look better on tabletop.

Yes I agreeI like the slightly out of scale comical look myself, I do understand all you others as to wanting more realistic look and contrast to there earlier released miniatures ,but when I saw the 3d render that's when I joined as I thought this was the way the final miniature was going to look.

With kickstarters you take a slight chance anyway, but as I joined at the later day after seeing the render of the final look (minus a few details) I assumed this was it.

I do have some of there earlier females which look great don't get me wrong, but they don't match up to the majority of my other miniatures which is why I was hesitant of joining the kickstarter.
Then I saw the render and thought great these will blend in well, now I am panicking if they revert back to there original style.

I can understand if the early joiners were pissed of as they were expecting there normal format and then found out they were changing it, but if this was there intention to change the style from the start that is just bad luck for expecting things to stay the same because of earlier work.

However I think it is a bit off to show the style you intend then only to change it, this was the reason I joined now and not earlier.

I hope they are going to decide soon if they are going to change the style to a slimmer taller mini, as i will want to with draw from the kickstarter as these minis will be of no use for my needs.

So does any one know when this will be decided ?

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Heroic scale means the different models parts are disproportionate and at other scales with each other, so the head, arms and legs are bigger than the body to emphasize the detail on these parts, the weapons are even bigger, essentially if you want to see a pure example of heroic scale, just look at GW models.

GW minis have small legs, not large legs. Compare the length of a Cadian's arm to his leg. Now compare your arm to your leg.


If you think heroic scale means larger legs, that might explain some of the proportion issues being argued in this thread...

large as in fatter not taller.

You know, even GW can't keep it's models scaled properly together. Just looking at a few random models sitting around my desk. Vargard Obyron is a full head taller than a Grey Knight, which is the same size as a DV Chaos Chosen, which is a head taller than a AoBR Ork, which is the same height as an Eversor Assassin, which is shorter than a Cadian.

I think the issue is we're all too used to The GW Way™, where they just make models in whatever size they please to make it look cool, rather than following any real scale.

You see I don't get this whole GW reference, ok they are the original concept of heroic scale but of late most of my minis are made from 3rd party companies.

To be fair most were designed to work alongside the GW ranges initially,but most companies are producing almost complete miniatures.

Due to this most of my minis revolve around these companies, I can't even remember the last GW pat I used of late.
So to say it is solely to tie in with GW is incorrect, I just want to be able to tie my miniatures together without looking out of place.

The Kurganova heavy trooper renderings are really growing on me. I hope they won't change too much.

So... who's got paint schemes planned out eh?

Keep in mind that plans are to make the characters slightly larger than the troopers to make them visually stand out, as seen with Kurnigovas.

KalashnikovMarine wrote:So... who's got paint schemes planned out eh?

Oooh! Me! Me! Valhallans! That way I can use the Kurganovas and the Jailbirds together. (I'll just do the Jailbirds on desert bases! ) I'm actually really excited to come up with some kind of unifying scheme for them.

Kroothawk wrote:Keep in mind that plans are to make the characters slightly larger than the troopers to make them visually stand out, as seen with Kurnigovas.

Really? I'd heard that bandied about on forums and such, but hadn't seen that officially yet. Do you remember where you saw it at? I kind of thought that the Kurganovas were only taller because of their costuming (the ones already in production are, in body, the same size as normal guardsmen, roughly, and it's only their heels and their hats that make them taller).

I'm not sure 'larger' is the best way to put it (based on the Kurganovas and all their other character models). Their characters often are slightly 'taller' due to heels, and appear more substantial due to accessories (capes, long hair with barbs, robes, trenchcoats, etc.). Referring to the characters as 'larger' makes them sound thicker/big boned

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
So... who's got paint schemes planned out eh?

Going with Jailbirds and my plan is for CSM cultists. Which is the start of a new army for me. I do not have IG either so I may decide to go renegade guard instead but either way these girls are going to be under the influence

Of alcohol, dark gods and all the hard drugs they can find!


Holy crap! You need to find a Doomrider model for them! XD

Chaos cultists would be a pretty sweet option!

In the interests of full disclosure, I feel I should also mention that several of these ladies will be doing double duty in my Necromunda gang. Especially the Lulus if it turns out that they are indeed children.

My Jailbirds will probably end up in a standard catachan/Vietnam color scheme. But each at a character level standard.

I'll need to practice on flesh tones....I hate flesh tones.

I probably may do desert tones, or mountainous desert. Or, if I decide to play em for Deadzone, since that will come to me first... I may just paint them black and whiteand some other little colors, to make them have that old timey jail bird theme.

I'm convinced the lulu's will be ratlings personally.