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So, no larger (meaningful) version of the image from this update is going to appear, going on the response someone received in the standard comments section.

On the other hand, it does look like the KS survey is finally going out. All be it to just capture name / contact detail informations so that they can run the full pledge manager.

Yeah... it's just address grabber survey. It's a start nevertheless.

Hehe, remember, the actual survey will be something of their own creation.

Which means it's probably 80% done, but in a non-linear fashion.

prankster wrote:
Yeah, a few people have asked to see a larger version. Kind of surprising that they didn't put one up as part of the update.
Though I've a feeling it'll be classed as 'trade secrets' so they'll not show us the actual headings that make the green cells meaningful.

I can't even be bothered taking the piss out of them this time. It really does seem like they're trololling us with the unreadable spreadsheet, though.

These are jokes, right?

David Wilkewitz about 4 hours ago

Raging, what about putting a higher res img of the progress chart on your web page news?

Creator Loud'n Raging about 4 hours ago ...
@David Wilkewitz: I couldn't get the OK for that :(

Creator Loud'n Raging about 4 hours ago ...
Column headings, unfortunately, I'm not allowed to share (as they concern our workflow and is confidential).

Whaaaaa?

Who is looking to scoop their workflow system? They aren't making the Colonel's secret recipe here, they're a niche within a niche within a niche and a... 4th(?*) tier company at that. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it's hard to imagine they actually have anything... well, anything really worth stealing in this regard.





*That is, if one considers GW the first tier (which would seem indisputable), the second tier consisting of PP, perhaps Reaper and then a third tier of companies (including some that that flit in and out of the second tier) such as Wyrd, Mantic, Corvus Bell and MERCs, then finally fourth tier where you get companies like RH, DFG/Wargames factories, CHS and so on. Below even them I suppose we can place the solos like Red Box, Bombshell and so on.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
These are jokes, right?

David Wilkewitz about 4 hours ago

Raging, what about putting a higher res img of the progress chart on your web page news?

Creator Loud'n Raging about 4 hours ago ...
@David Wilkewitz: I couldn't get the OK for that :(

Creator Loud'n Raging about 4 hours ago ...
Column headings, unfortunately, I'm not allowed to share (as they concern our workflow and is confidential).

Whaaaaa?

Who is looking to scoop their workflow system? They aren't making the Colonel's secret recipe here, they're a niche within a niche within a niche and a... 4th(?*) tier company at that. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it's hard to imagine they actually have anything... well, anything really worth stealing in this regard.





*That is, if one considers GW the first tier (which would seem indisputable), the second tier consisting of PP, perhaps Reaper and then a third tier of companies (including some that that flit in and out of the second tier) such as Wyrd, Mantic, Corvus Bell and MERCs, then finally fourth tier where you get companies like RH, DFG/Wargames factories, CHS and so on. Below even them I suppose we can place the solos like Red Box, Bombshell and so on.

It's funny, because I can fix "super secret column headers" in about 2 minutes using MSPaint...

Why bother posting a low-res spreadsheet image, without bothering to censor any of it even at low res, and then say you can't post a hi-res version later? And they have someone in studio that can do graphics for all the updates, pictures, etc, but editing a screenshot of a spreadsheet is too much...

I'm pretty much just waiting on pictures of models at this point, and RH can spin their PR however they want. As long as the end product is quality, I could care less what the people behind the miniatures are doing or saying.

~iPaint

Because they're doing it for the lulz.

Surely.

I'm sorry we woke you for that, mate.

Much as I try to take a middle road as far as this thread's concerned. I got nothing on this latest bout of shenanigans.

Man, these models better be good.

The thing that really gets me is I don't think they appreciate the delicate line they need to walk with the public. They are forming a relationship with thousands of people at once, one which can go in very different directions based on the smallest things.

Heck, all you need to do is look at the difference in attitudes between two projects, both of which went way over their initial estimates and both of which ran/are running late; Sedition Wars versus Kingdom Death.

Now, I won't go so far as to say that the only salient difference between these two campaigns is the communications, but certainly there has been a marked difference in the quality and quantity of communications between the two campaigns. If Poots had simply come out and said "Sorry guys, going to be late", it would have been explosive. But he presented a compelling explanations, and further, that announcement was in the context of many, many updates brimming with content. So even when getting bad news, KD discussions are (predominantly) positive.

By contrast Sedition Wars is finally winding down... and the overall feeling seems to be a rather muted disappointment, bordering on sadness.

Heck, check out the announcement from SPM about the delay for Relic Knights; scroll up and down from that post to see how the poor handling of that announcement totally flushed the mood of that thread (and on the campaign itself the tension was... less suppressed).

My point in all this is that these companies have an amazing opportunity to have a relationship with their customers here. They have a captive audience, an audience that wants to hear the creators talk about how great they are. Yet for all that, RH seems to be determined to antagonize the people that backed them.

And not to engage in any doomsaying, but does anyone else imagine RH moping their brows now that Dark Elves have been confirmed for release?

Holy crap, this is getting actively hilarious. What the hell is a company with a super-secret, ultra-confidential work flow doing running a minis company. Why not hire out as consultants and actually make money? I just don't have words. That is one doozy of an arse-pull. And to keep hammering on it like they are...

Man, I'm sorry to those that backed it. This must be a bit frustrating. But the way they are mishandling it is bloody high comedy at this point.

I hope you guys end up getting your product, but just seeing what new excuse RH can pull out of the hat is amusing and feeds my hunger for schadenfreude (at the expense of RH, not their backers; I feel bad that you guys got saddled with this turd sandwich of a campaign).

I look forward to their next "update". Perhaps they will post ultra zoomed-in photos of the minis and play "guess what it is?" with those playing at home? Or would that reveal too much of their work flow? I wonder if the things posted to their tumblr account are really just them playing Nth dimensional work-flowgistics with their superior brains.

Keep it fresh RH! Show the minis industry how to troll away any and all good will!

I got my survey thing for the address and contact info today. The rest of you will probably be getting yours soon as well.

Honestly, the stuff they've been pulling hasn't bothered me at all. I backed at the $15 level and wasn't expecting them to get anything out in a timely manner anyway. Hell, I backed late in the game anyway after they started mishandling things, so I knew what I was getting into. And if they pull an Avatars of War, though I doubt they will, at least in all I'm only down $20.

Though, it is pretty stupid to have their workflow be so secretive, but post a picture of it in the update. Why even bother showing that in the first place?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I'm sorry we woke you for that, mate.

Oh, I got the update in my inbox. Because I'm a Raging Heroes Supporter. Which is slightly shameful. But having said that, it's less shameful than being a Sedition Wars supporter.... ...which I also am.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Buzzsaw wrote:

And not to engage in any doomsaying, but does anyone else imagine RH moping their brows now that Dark Elves have been confirmed for release?

Yeah, it would clearly be of concern to them. On the other hand, anything that makes them rethink again or even bin their lofty plans for three kickstarters in 2013 is a good thing.

Remember guys, the next update is going to be the big one with renders, previews, maybe even, dare I jinx it, actual minis in it?

 BrookM wrote:
Remember guys, the next update is going to be the big one with renders, previews, maybe even, dare I jinx it, actual minis in it?

Either that, or a photograph of a raised middle finger.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Remember guys, the next update is going to be the big one with renders, previews, maybe even, dare I jinx it, actual minis in it?

Either that, or a photograph of a raised middle finger.

Which may be preferable to all this super-secret squirrel BS we're getting now.

Delicious!

I can only imagine how some of the column headers must read...

Spend Time Looking for Random Inspirational porn Pictures on the Internet

Post Said Pictures on Tumblr

Rest

Troll Supporters via 'Updates' on Kickstarter

Work on all possible miniatures for a little bit

Add 1% to completion total on all miniatures

 AlexHolker wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Remember guys, the next update is going to be the big one with renders, previews, maybe even, dare I jinx it, actual minis in it?

Either that, or a photograph of a raised middle finger.

No, a picture like that seems more likely to appear on their Tumblr.

Via an update or their Tumblr, I'd take a picture at this point.

The Tumblr specifically states that we'd see WiPs on that thing.

Everything we have been told has been a lie.

So I had a pretty long conversation with some of the RH team, and I do have an answer for you guys as far as where the heck the WIPs are.

"Because we are working on all the Troops soldiers at the same time. Instead of working on one soldier at a time and taking her to the finish line, we are pushing the entire squadron forward inch by inch. So most of the WIPs we would issue would be totally misleading: the details that most backers would focus on are only fixed in the end, such as an ugly face (we prepare the heads separately and put them on at the end), too big boobs (for example, we do all the sculpts and then make changes once we place them all side by side to ensure continuity and consistency), wrong weapons (we often use the same weapon for all the minis as 'place-holders', and switch to the correct weapons for each individual mini on the last days), etc. So you can imagine the number of comments, complaints, scare, and worse we'd have to deal with if we were to show such WIPs. We just don't have the manpower to handle it. Plus, many of those worries are groundless, because all these issues are planned to be fixed in the end anyway."

They had thought this had been explained in a prior update when they initially talked about their non-linear work flow.

Yeah, they still don't 'get it', but at this point, that is not surprising at all.

You know, that makes a bit of sense and, on the wip issue at least, you can sort of understand where they're coming from here, whether people agree with their thoughts on it or not. Thanks for posting.

 alanmckenzie wrote:
You know, that makes a bit of sense and, on the wip issue at least, you can sort of understand where they're coming from here, whether people agree with their thoughts on it or not. Thanks for posting.

Nope. Still a load of bs. Especially lol-worthy is the whole "trade secret" sculpting process. Makes me laugh every time.

Sooooooooo glad I didn't give these fools money, especially after the Sedition Wars burn I'm feeling.

~Eric

 Alpharius wrote:
Yeah, they still don't 'get it', but at this point, that is not surprising at all.

I suppose I'm not tracking either, care to explain? Small words mate, I'm a Marine remember. I will of course pass on anything you want me to to the RH team. We had a pretty productive conversation today and I'm ready to fill their inbox with feedback.

 Taarnak wrote:

 alanmckenzie wrote:
You know, that makes a bit of sense and, on the wip issue at least, you can sort of understand where they're coming from here, whether people agree with their thoughts on it or not. Thanks for posting.

Nope. Still a load of bs. Especially lol-worthy is the whole "trade secret" sculpting process. Makes me laugh every time.

Sooooooooo glad I didn't give these fools money, especially after the Sedition Wars burn I'm feeling.

~Eric

I didn't see any reference to a trade secret sculpting process there, so I guess I'll just write this off as vitriol for vitriol's sake.

 Taarnak wrote:

 alanmckenzie wrote:
You know, that makes a bit of sense and, on the wip issue at least, you can sort of understand where they're coming from here, whether people agree with their thoughts on it or not. Thanks for posting.

Nope. Still a load of bs. Especially lol-worthy is the whole "trade secret" sculpting process. Makes me laugh every time.

Sooooooooo glad I didn't give these fools money, especially after the Sedition Wars burn I'm feeling.

~Eric

I was just saying that it is, at the very least, a comprehensible explanation of their reluctance to show wips. That's all. Not saying I agree with their stance, or even that I necessarily believe them. And it goes nowhere towards explaining any of the other many issues surrounding this ks. But it is something.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

I didn't see any reference to a trade secret sculpting process there, so I guess I'll just write this off as vitriol for vitriol's sake.

I was referring back to the teeny tiny spreadsheet that time. No vitriol though. They sure as hell aren't important enough for that. I do like to poke at this particular bear every now and again tough, and here is why: You folks, as Kickstarter backers, have floated these fools a gigantic, interest-free loan. Yes you are technically donating, I get that. But look at it this way: If they had gotten a loan for this money for a bank, they would have likely needed to put up some hefty collateral, firstly. Secondly, they would at the very least likely have to be making repayments at this point. Then there is the fact that they would be paying interest; a lot of it.

So, in exchange for your no-interest loan you are owed, at minimum, regular progress reports and a look at what you have been paying for. Until more accountability is demanded by us, as Kickstarter "consumers" we will have more bs like RH has given, and total screw ups like the Mantic Basilean Man-at-Arms figures.

Also, the very notion that they have invented something new with digital sculpting is hilariously out of touch.

Nothing against, or meant towards you sir. Hope you didn't take it that way.

~Eric


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alanmckenzie wrote:

I was just saying that it is, at the very least, a comprehensible explanation of their reluctance to show wips. That's all. Not saying I agree with their stance, or even that I necessarily believe them. And it goes nowhere towards explaining any of the other many issues surrounding this ks. But it is something.

Fair enough, but it is also something they could easily deal with by blacking out the non-good bits in Photoshop. Likely in a fraction of the time it takes them to write snarky, condescending replies to the requests for updates. And surely it would be easy to fit in around all the Tumblr-time?

~Eric