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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I think the big update was some sort of metaphor. There is a big update inside each of us if only we are willing to see it.

I think that must have been a paid add on that I didn't get. Either that, or it isn't quite at 80% yet and I therefore haven't fully realized mine.

How dare people say this is a shamefully negative thread?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I think the big update was some sort of metaphor. There is a big update inside each of us if only we are willing to see it.

This made me laugh pretty hard. Well done.

First off, that butt guide did indeed make me lol.

I'm sure there are other companies out there that are MORE responsive to fan criticism, I've just not dealt with them. I've been shocked that our feedback gets any response at all, honestly. It's been such a refreshing change of pace for me.

And, there is something to be said for an artist sticking true to what they envision. There's certainly a point, I mean, where the artist has to tell John Q Public that he's wrong, and stick to his guns. I'm sure we can all recall a movie, video game, miniature line, or television show that bowed to the pressure of its more vocal fans, only to wind up becoming utter garbage. (A certain television show on AMC springs immediately to mind...) I'm not saying it's always necessary, but I'm still willing to wait for the minis before I pass condemnatory judgment.

 Jimsolo wrote:

First off, that butt guide did indeed make me lol.

I'm sure there are other companies out there that are MORE responsive to fan criticism, I've just not dealt with them. I've been shocked that our feedback gets any response at all, honestly. It's been such a refreshing change of pace for me.

And, there is something to be said for an artist sticking true to what they envision. There's certainly a point, I mean, where the artist has to tell John Q Public that he's wrong, and stick to his guns. I'm sure we can all recall a movie, video game, miniature line, or television show that bowed to the pressure of its more vocal fans, only to wind up becoming utter garbage. (A certain television show on AMC springs immediately to mind...) I'm not saying it's always necessary, but I'm still willing to wait for the minis before I pass condemnatory judgment.

Well, the biggest difference is that in this instance, John Q Public is funding his work. As such, it's not a stretch to believe that said artist owes John Q Public some latitude when it comes to input. It would be a lot different if they showed WiPs and just ignored the feedback and politely said, "We appreciate all the feedback and our artists are certainly considering it!". Instead, they're basically taking their ball and going home, and their excuse is that John Q Public is too stupid to provide any valuable feedback. IMO, that's not just great PR/CS.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:

First off, that butt guide did indeed make me lol.

I'm sure there are other companies out there that are MORE responsive to fan criticism, I've just not dealt with them. I've been shocked that our feedback gets any response at all, honestly. It's been such a refreshing change of pace for me.

And, there is something to be said for an artist sticking true to what they envision. There's certainly a point, I mean, where the artist has to tell John Q Public that he's wrong, and stick to his guns. I'm sure we can all recall a movie, video game, miniature line, or television show that bowed to the pressure of its more vocal fans, only to wind up becoming utter garbage. (A certain television show on AMC springs immediately to mind...) I'm not saying it's always necessary, but I'm still willing to wait for the minis before I pass condemnatory judgment.

Well, the biggest difference is that in this instance, John Q Public is funding his work. As such, it's not a stretch to believe that said artist owes John Q Public some latitude when it comes to input. It would be a lot different if they showed WiPs and just ignored the feedback and politely said, "We appreciate all the feedback and our artists are certainly considering it!". Instead, they're basically taking their ball and going home, and their excuse is that John Q Public is too stupid to provide any valuable feedback. IMO, that's not just great PR/CS.

The issue of artistic integrity is one not lost on me. I am a big supporter of artists having a distinct vision, and indeed it's one of the points I support Poots on with great enthusiasm. But, and it's an important but, this is something that is important in the selling phase: are you selling your product as an artistic endeavor that is the culmination of one individual's vision, or is it a more commercial, commodified product designed to fit into a number of settings/games?

KD:M is a self-contained product line that is unified within Adam Poots' vision of Kingdom Death, which is a very identifiable style with a number of peculiar elements. If one were to ask Poots to change, say, the proportions on the females, or to tone down the grim and sexually charged setting, he would refuse, because this is his vision, his setting, his game and it's all part of one vision. Moreover, his miniatures are not going to be primarily used in anything other then his game systems: they are 35mm figures with non-heroic proportions and would look massively out of place in, say, any of GW's products.

TGG, by contrast... with all due respect to the plans to produce a game setting for these figures, I don't think it's an unsupported leap to say that TGG figures will for the immediate future find themselves supplementing and replacing models in other games systems (*cough*).

So, while I'm entirely sympathetic to the idea of artistic freedom, let's be honest that if RH comes out in the big update and, say, presents 35mm miniatures that look great, but are totally inappropriate for GW/other 28mm games, and say that the models are going to print, people will be very upset. And they will be justifiably upset, because (or so it seems for the most part) people did not back TGG to get a line of models that are part of a free-standing game that is incompatible with their existing games.

Certainly we don't expect that much divergence from what is expected, but... there are limits to the artistic latitude that will be granted to RH in this matter.

 Buzzsaw wrote:

So, while I'm entirely sympathetic to the idea of artistic freedom, let's be honest that if RH comes out in the big update and, say, presents 35mm miniatures that look great, but are totally inappropriate for GW/other 28mm games, and say that the models are going to print, people will be very upset. And they will be justifiably upset, because (or so it seems for the most part) people did not back TGG to get a line of models that are part of a free-standing game that is incompatible with their existing games.

Certainly we don't expect that much divergence from what is expected, but... there are limits to the artistic latitude that will be granted to RH in this matter.

Oh, to be sure. I think I would be quite...put out if these figs weren't usable as 'not Imperial Guard.' I don't think they'll be that far afield, though.

Imagine if Dystopian Legions had been a KS... oh the cries of pain would still be heard today.

Yeah, that was a move that baffles me to this day. Sure, you have a right to pick whatever scale you want, but common sense, not to mention business savvy would say that something along the lines of other ranges would be the best call.

 BrookM wrote:
Yeah, that was a move that baffles me to this day. Sure, you have a right to pick whatever scale you want, but common sense, not to mention business savvy would say that something along the lines of other ranges would be the best call.

Unless, like spartan wit Dystopian legions and Poots with Kingdom Death, you want hour product to stand on its own and not be simply a substitute for larger games.

Maybe, although picking a scale that means you'll be see as 'substitute figures' tend to end up driving what your customers want to see your produce

If you go for a unique (or rare) scale you may not sell as many but you've got less pressure to shoehorn in things to your universe just because GW players need them

I thought the real disaster of the Dystopian Wars stuff was not the 35mm (?) figure size but that they advertised them as 28mm to start with (this did change later)

(so a good number of early buyers expecting stuff to sub into GW Imperial Guard armies were just plain ripped off)

 cincydooley wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I think the big update was some sort of metaphor. There is a big update inside each of us if only we are willing to see it.

I think that must have been a paid add on that I didn't get.

That's okay, it's all credit now! Unfortunately, the discount on enlightenment is less than it will be from The War Store, so you're better off waiting for retail.

Either that, or it isn't quite at 80% yet and I therefore haven't fully realized mine.

I just love this Kickstarter thread. Its trade secret work flow will produce so many shamefully negative memes in the next big update that only 80% of us young twitter-weaned whippersnappers will be able to find it... delicious.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Imagine if Dystopian Legions had been a KS... oh the cries of pain would still be heard today.

Or imagine if they were of a compatible scale! I'd have bought so many of them, instead of none.

Well... knowing you for the connaisseur that you are, you might have been disappointed by the quality of the casting. Ironbovin had the contract to paint one our FLGS' display army, and he had few good words for them.

Which obviously won't be the case for this project.

I bought a pack of those little (huge!) guys at my FLGS before I realised how completely out of scale they were, and I can agree that the castings required a great deal of cleanup. Also, the metal they use is great for sharp detail, but is quite possibly the most brittle material I have ever seen used for a mini, does not go well with how delicate some of the features on the minis are.

Hm, okay. Good to know. I still had the Paladins with shields (or templars, or whatever they're called) on my "eventual to buy list". I'll have to drop them even further down the priority queue...

Mmh.. I really would like to see some pictures ;(

I just can't decide if I want Iron Empire or the Kurgonovas for my upcoming sisters of battle project.... Another question is, if maybe I should solely buy the Heavy Troopers :(

Well, 100% of the big update is 80% complete, but due to the non-linear work flow it makes absolutely no sense as the vowels are the last thing to be worked on.

In seriousness, we'd all like to see some pictures, and have an answer to the question that Buzzsaw posted in the KS comments.

They just posted this on Facebook

Raging Heroes
Well, after finishing the Jailbirds Troopers, we really felt like they were now one notch above the IE and KST Troops...
So we are now giving an extra round of polish to the Iron Empire and the Kurganova Shock Troops so that each army is at its best.
I'm fighting with the guys to get images out by the end of the week-end... Wish me luck!



END OF THE WEEK-END

Next week's week-end?

RoninXiC wrote:
They just posted this on Facebook

Raging Heroes
Well, after finishing the Jailbirds Troopers, we really felt like they were now one notch above the IE and KST Troops...
So we are now giving an extra round of polish to the Iron Empire and the Kurganova Shock Troops so that each army is at its best.
I'm fighting with the guys to get images out by the end of the week-end... Wish me luck!



END OF THE WEEK-END

Next week's week-end?

So mid-October then, based on past posting by RH. That said, they'd damn well better be jaw-dropping models.

~iPaint

Sweet! I can't wait!

But you will. Like the rest of us. For longer than you thought!

Yeah... so, I posted;

Just to clear something up; once more complete images do start showing up, will they be subject to critique/modification, or will they be "set in stone" and on the way to the casters?

in the comments a week ago, and have contacted them through the KS mail feature and... nothing yet. Is there a passenger pigeon I ought to be chartering or how do people have luck getting questions answered? I think it a fairly innocuous question as well, it's either "yes, we will take feedback" or "no, the models will be final".

What have you offered them in exchange for this information? An eye? A child sibling? Ice cube mouth-pleasure?

You didn't expect them to just give you the answers you seek just because you paid them money, did you?

They've actually been really prompt in answering most of my questions. Perhaps a Raging Herald could help?

I'll poke them sometime today if my schedule and RH's matches up. Things have been kinda insane at work the last few days.

Raging Heroes wrote:Well, after finishing the Jailbirds Troopers, we really felt like they were now one notch above the IE and KST Troops...
So we are now giving an extra round of polish to the Iron Empire and the Kurganova Shock Troops so that each army is at its best.
I'm fighting with the guys to get images out by the end of the week-end... Wish me luck!

This would be more useful if we had any point of reference to know what the other units looked like before.

So.. the IE and KST Troops are 80% done at the moment?

RoninXiC wrote:
So.. the IE and KST Troops are 80% done at the moment?

Yup, 100%

In all seriousness, I do hope that this is the one. And I do hope it is this weekend.

End of the weekend = Sunday night, right? That's how we do it in retail, at least...