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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




No, they did not answer any questions.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

They did respond to a few fawning comments, however. So it's not like they completely ignored us since Le Big Update dropped, just those that didn't worship them.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
So it's not like they completely ignored us since Le Big Update dropped, just those that didn't worship them.


Let's all withdraw our pledges in protest!

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







If many could, many would.

Maybe!
   
Made in us
Mutating Changebringer





Pennsylvania

 Alpharius wrote:
If many could, many would.

Maybe!


Heh, now that I've really been looking at Darklands, the temptation is mighty strong.

Why, they even respond to questions!

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Lancaster PA

 Alpharius wrote:
If many could, many would.

Maybe!


Probably no more than 80% or so.


Woad to WAR... on Celts blog, which is mostly Circle Orboros
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
Made in gb
Twisting Tzeentch Horror




Surely 80% of the backers are those who've not been weaned on twitter and are happy to wait in the silence until RH give them another delicious update?

DS:80S++G++MB+I+Pw40k92/f#+D+A++/areWD156R++T(R)DM+ 
   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
So it's not like they completely ignored us since Le Big Update dropped, just those that didn't worship them.


Let's all withdraw our pledges in protest!


So you'll be buying people's pledges out? Awesome!

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

It's Raging Heroes. Everything they do takes 10x as long as everyone else. Anyone who was expecting something different was deluding themselves.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

As noted, I was expecting the delays. I wasn't expecting them to be so douchey and arrogant.

   
Made in au
Pustulating Plague Priest




 Azazelx wrote:
As noted, I was expecting the delays. I wasn't expecting them to be so douchey and arrogant.

Points and laughs. Hey, why don't I feel better? Oh, we all lose.

There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.  
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Azazelx wrote:
As noted, I was expecting the delays. I wasn't expecting them to be so douchey and arrogant.


How are they being "douchey" and "arrogant"?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in fr
Swift Swooping Hawk






Who would have guessed people would still moan when images dropped
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





UK

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Azazelx wrote:
As noted, I was expecting the delays. I wasn't expecting them to be so douchey and arrogant.


How are they being "douchey" and "arrogant"?


This week?

By refusing to answer questions, either here, on the comments section, or by email.

By refusing to answer questions after telling us that they were delaying the update in order for them to do just that.

By intimating that they neither require nor desire any feedback, unless it's fawning positiveness, of course.

By refusing to show any respect or gratitude to the peolple who fund their art (you know, the twitter weaned children).

"Arrogant", yes. "Douchey", that's more subjective, but in my opinion, yes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/18 10:10:08


Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly

P&M blog ; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488077.page

Currently 200pts 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 shamikebab wrote:
Who would have guessed people would still moan when images dropped


What else is there to do? Sure, they posted some pictures. Lovely pictures. Of ~20 of 150 miniatures. With questionable design choices.
We are still waiting for any kind of update on castings, wave shipping, delivery dates etc etc etc. There is a LOT to do and RH ... well... they might think they do enough.. but they don't.
   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

 shamikebab wrote:
Who would have guessed people would still moan when images dropped


The ones that were originally promised "tomorrow" a month earlier and were henceforth "tomorrow" and "this weekend" for the subsequent month?

   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

"We gave zem ze previews and zey are still most unhappy!"




Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Some companies like to work in silence, I believe. GW isn't known to make a lot of previews of their new models, is it? And I won't talk about these other kickstarters saying it "would come soon" but in the end suffered horrible delays. Gak happens to anyone, nowadays.

We'll see in the very end what we will have. After all, waiting is all we can do at this rate. Complaining is sure good to let out some of that steam from inside, but it's not like this topic is where Raging Heroes come to read our feelings.

There is something I find curious, however; by reading the way how kickstarters work (as well as how successfull ones came to an end), I understood from the very beginning that this is something that would take a lot of time - and that estimated dates were exactly that (which means without garanty they would be respected). So I knew that I would have to be VERY patient before having wonderfull models in my hands (with a very interesting "group price" as well as bonus models, let's not hide our venal face here...). But by reading many comments here and there, I feel like people didn't really understand that...like they were thinking they were in fact buying products from an online store. Which is not the case.

Maybe that's a difference of point of view. I can understand it's frustrating having delays again and again...but maybe because I was expecting them, my reactions aren't as "extreme" as I can read over here.

About the arrogance...well, it's a french company. Sorry, it was a bad joke. ^^

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/18 14:15:25


 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

@Sarouan

I think you missed the point of most posters. I would say every person discussing things in this thread KNEW that Raging Heroes wasn't going to make their dates and accepted it. Even a the beginning of the campaign no one really believed they'd ship in September/October.

What people did expect though is communication. Probably wrongly based on how the KS went but they still expected it.

It boils down to people being ok with delays as long as the people they gave an interest free loan to communicate openly and often.

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





UK

Pretty spot on, Hulk.

Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly

P&M blog ; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488077.page

Currently 200pts 
   
Made in fr
Swift Swooping Hawk






Communication is nice but it's not a right, as long as I can see they're working on things and don't just vanish for 6 months then I'm content to just be patient and let them do their thing.
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





UK

But how can you see that they are working on things if they don't communicate? And when the communication that does come only consists of reasons why they can't show you the things that they've been working on?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Communication may not be a "right", as you put it. But it is polite, it is free. It is, therefore, the very very least that backers should be expecting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/18 14:32:58


Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly

P&M blog ; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488077.page

Currently 200pts 
   
Made in fr
Swift Swooping Hawk






The big update with all the pictures shows me they're working on something

Communication isn't free, it takes time. As we have seen, if it's done badly then it can create more negative PR than no communication. I'd be happy if they just kept quiet and released batches of images/info when they're happy. Saying they will be doing it by a certain time/date then missing that for whatever reason is far worse than just keeping quiet to me.
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





UK

Well, we waited for that (not as "big" as promised) update for over a month. During which time all the communication was "tomorrow", "tomorrow", "end of the weekend", "next week", "tonight", "tomorrow".

And weren't those renders supposed to have been 100%, 80% complete by the end of the ks anyway? Or was that only the Heroines, of which there are no sign?

And it doesn't take time or money to post something along the lines of;

"This week we struggled a bit to get Natasha's head right, but I think we got it. Over the next couple of days, I'll hopefully finish her off, and Dave's going to start on one of the tank commanders. Speak to you next week, stay frosty."

Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly

P&M blog ; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488077.page

Currently 200pts 
   
Made in fr
Swift Swooping Hawk






yes they ran the campaign badly and promised too much, where have I said they didn't?

We're not their friends or their shareholders, it's not required that we get updates like that. I'm looking forward to Destiny by Bungie, I'm not expecting updates saying "Just finished another character model, going to do a weapon tomorrow, see you later" It's information overload.

Frankly, it sounds like some of you just shouldn't be buying things from Kickstarter.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

@Sarouan: Seeing how often Belgians are the butt of French jokes, you're allowed a free pass.

Shami is right in saying that communication is not a right, but it makes sense to communicate not only with those who gave you an interest free loan, but also potentially the biggest pool of positive word-of-mouth force you can muster on almost zero budget. You're right also that time = money, so the more time they spend talking to us, the less is spent on "doin' their thang." But seriously, tumblr time could be spent on communication instead. Bam, found some spare time.

And, yes, it bears repeating that if the minis were 80% done, and they spent a year preparing the KS campaign, then the 20% remaining should take roughly 2-3 months. For the whole design effort. Let's be nice and say the devil is in the details, and add 2 months. That 4-5 months to release images of 150 minis (50 of which are multi-pose, so could take a bit longer, I agree) That still means that they could show a completed mini every... 2 days? Even that is padding even more in their favour.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





UK

 shamikebab wrote:
yes they ran the campaign badly and promised too much, where have I said they didn't?

We're not their friends or their shareholders, it's not required that we get updates like that. I'm looking forward to Destiny by Bungie, I'm not expecting updates saying "Just finished another character model, going to do a weapon tomorrow, see you later" It's information overload.

Frankly, it sounds like some of you just shouldn't be buying things from Kickstarter.


You didn't help fund Destiny though, did you? You didn't give Bungie hundreds of dollars in order to allow them to develop it, did you? Have you pre-ordered it? Well done, but Kickstarter is not a pre-order. It is a funding tool. We funded these products. No, communication is not required. But it is the polite, respectful thing to do. And one comment in the KS thread every week is not information overload.

And I'm just fine with using Kickstarter, I've really enjoyed the few campaigns that I've been a part of (including this one). All other ks creators that I've dealt with don't seem to mind communicating with their backers.

You expect politeness from the guy you buy a newspaper from every morning, why not the guys who you gave hundreds of dollars to in good (practically blind) faith?


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/18 17:03:07


Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly

P&M blog ; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488077.page

Currently 200pts 
   
Made in us
Mutating Changebringer





Pennsylvania

It is a strange conversation here: on the one hand there are people saying that Raging Heroes is incompetent. That they cannot meet deadlines even when they set the times themselves, that they are petrified of speaking to their backers lest they enrage them, that they are hothouse flowers that will wilt in the cold air of criticism.

And that is the side that is defending them!

It seems as if they have decided to apply the soft bigotry of low expectations to RH, as if expecting them to act in their own interests is some Herculean effort entirely beyond them.

Then, on the other hand, there are people (myself included) who do not subscribe to this theory that RH is innately incompetent, but that they are simply confused and can benefit from some advice. Perhaps we are wrong, and in the end RH will be shown to be a company that must be dealt with in the manner of a severely impaired child: with utmost delicacy and above all a concern for their fragility. Only time will tell.

For now, however, it seems entirely too early to give up on their capacity to learn and grow as a company and in the eyes of their fans. For this is a time that defines a company in the eyes of its fans, and those fans in turn help to define the image of that company in the wider world. One can only imagine that RH should wish to avoid the following exchange;

Customer: Have you heard of these Raging Heroes people?
FLGS: Oh yeah, some people say that they miss deadlines and don't respond to emails/FB posts/comments... and then there are the people that don't like them.

Let's also for a moment remember that RH is planing no less then two more kickstarter campaigns, possibly more if they split their Sci-Fi and fantasy Nuns and Dark Elves. Now is not the time to establish a pattern of casual indifference to their backers.

How you run a campaign and deal with people afterwards can define a company: Mierce Miniatures has gone from the shadow of the Maelstrom Games fiasco to a 100k GBP campaign... and then a 140k GBP campaign! Does anyone think that this is entirely unrelated to their attempts at community relations? Or how about taking a gander at the respective comments sections for TGG and KD:M? About 10k comments... versus about 50k comments.

You might aver that it's down to the difference in timing, or the size of the campaigns... or you might notice that while RH's last interaction was 7 days ago, Poots' was 7 hours ago. That's not some serendipitous trick, where we just happened to catch Poots communicating: scroll through the comments section and you see that Poots is a regular poster in the comments. A consequence of that is the KD:M comments don't feel like the comments section on most campaigns, it feels like a forum for KD. Mind you, this is after the announcement of a multi-month delay.

It's entirely fair to say a company doesn't need to try and foster a relationship with it's backers. Completely true, they don't need to. But the backer also doesn't need to evangelize to their friends about the game. Doesn't need to put up unboxings, painted pictures and testimonials. Doesn't need to work things with their local game stores so people have times to play this new game. Doesn't need to participate on forums to create energy for a product. Doesn't need to register on resources for finding other gamers. Doesn't need, in short, to be a fan.

There is a lot more to running a successful campaign then just acquiring a big stack of currency. It's about building a business, and a big part of that is building good will.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Lancaster PA

I would like to suggest that if RH had put a line on their KS page along the lines of:

We reserve the right to not tell you anything about what is happening with the project for the entire duration. This includes a complete lack of updates, pictures or any other information on what is happening. This is regardless of delays or other alterations to the promises we make on this Kickstarter page. Raging Heroes' relationship with our backers is fulfilled by us taking your money, and most likely sending you the models we see fit to produce with that money, with no other obligations implied.

I am pretty certain they would have seen a lot less money come their way. Whether or not it is reasonable for backers to expect lots of updates, it is in fact the current culture surrounding Kick Starter.
Not to mention the fact that if they had attempted to raise the capital to fund the project in another way, there would be men with suits popping in to check on their process on a regular basis. Those men would be a lot less pleasant than some forums teasing them about their Tumblr accounts and wanting to give feed back on the miniatures they already bought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damnit Buzzsaw... totally stole my thunder, then magnified it ten fold. Well done... :(

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/18 16:33:39



Woad to WAR... on Celts blog, which is mostly Circle Orboros
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





UK

Well put guys. I feel like I keep saying it, but in this ks I always expected delays, I never expected big updates with loads of pictures every week, I don't expect to be friends or on first name terms with RH, I don't expect every question/comment/ounce of feedback answered.

The only thing I fully expected from this kickstarter (and any other I've backed for that matter), is a quality final product and, again, politeness, courtesy and a certain level of appreciation and acknowledgement towards its backers.

I expected these things only because it is the decent way to behave. That is before even considering the implications that the lack of them could potentially have on RH's future projects, which Buzz and Wehrkind correctly highlight.

Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly

P&M blog ; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488077.page

Currently 200pts 
   
 
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