Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I used to be hardcore pro-choice but I now lean towards pro-life.
What say you?

This thread is going places. I'm excited about the possibilities.


+1, would read again.

It's late, man. I can't make a decent thread at this hour...

Pro-choice.

As Shepherd Book and Mal Reynolds once said to each other:

"Do you mind if I say grace?"

"Only if I can hear it."

Keep your church out of my state and we'll get along fine.

Pro-Choice.

But I think if the pro-life crowd would put even half the effort into improving welfare, adoption laws, and sex education that they put into passing anti-abortion laws they would probably prevent more abortions than they do now.

 d-usa wrote:
Pro-Choice.

But I think if the pro-life crowd would put even half the effort into improving welfare, adoption laws, and sex education that they put into passing anti-abortion laws they would probably prevent more abortions than they do now.

I can agree with this.

Doesn't seem to be much wrong with allowing people the choice of an abortion.
It's not like it's mandatory or anything...

 poppa G wrote:
It's late, man. I can't make a decent thread at this hour...

It's okay, I can't either. Everything seems pretty civil so far though! Not that I'm surprised, Dakka is usually able to handle serious threads for a good while until they start to get out of hand.


I personally never really liked the "pro-life" and "pro-choice" labels. They both seem designed to try to make the other side look as bad as possible while getting in the way of much useful compromise or reasonable discussion.

Catholic. Life trumps convenience.

 d-usa wrote:
Pro-Choice.

But I think if the pro-life crowd would put even half the effort into improving welfare, adoption laws, and sex education that they put into passing anti-abortion laws they would probably prevent more abortions than they do now.

I would agree with this 100%. Thankfully in the UK we dont suffer as much with the pro life side as happens in some other countries, though their focus only on abortion rather than things that could lead to a natural reduction in abortions is pretty much the same.

 Breotan wrote:
Catholic. Life trumps convenience.

Agree.

Out of respect for other peoples' beliefs, I am Pro-Choice.

Unfortunately it is not a simple black/white issue that people paint it as.

I am pro-life in that I think that you should not be able to say "Oopse. I'm pregnant. I don't want this child. Get rid of it".

I am pro-choice in that I think there are some cases (Where the survive of mother and child is unlikely, as an extreme example) that you have to make a difficult decision.

There is a line at some point in the middle. I don't think anyone would say "I don't care that both will die. No abortions".

Beyond that I don't see it as a matter of religion but a matter of when you think a cell becomes a person. Yes, pro-life is dominated by religion, but I don't see it as a matter of faith.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

I would agree with this 100%. Thankfully in the UK we dont suffer as much with the pro life side as happens in some other countries, though their focus only on abortion rather than things that could lead to a natural reduction in abortions is pretty much the same.

Thats because, in theory, UK abortion law is pro-life. You can only have an abortion if a doctor agrees that continuing with the pregnancy would be bad for the mother or the child. In practice there is allot of evidence that "bad for the mother" has been stretched to braking point, but there is little concrete proof of this and little political will to do anything to check or enforce the rules.

well, I am pro-life completely, but for all of my pro-choice brethern, i wonder what your veiws are on prostitution, euthanizing old people/sick people who want it and people's right to sell their body parts for cash.... Because if you are really pro-choice, then you can't say anything about any of those things.. they are choices as well after all.

 Steve steveson wrote:
Unfortunately it is not a simple black/white issue that people paint it as.

I am pro-life in that I think that you should not be able to say "Oopse. I'm pregnant. I don't want this child. Get rid of it".

I am pro-choice in that I think there are some cases (Where the survive of mother and child is unlikely, as an extreme example) that you have to make a difficult decision.

I agree. Plus: abortion when raped is ok as well.

I honestly don't care. I think late-term abortion should only be by medical necessity, but even that, eh. I've voted for pro-choice candidates, pro-life candidates, and I'll continue to do both. Not once has someone's abortion position influenced my vote in any way.

Just don't care.

Basically this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkjx-Z0WPs0 (NSFW language)

I think everyone is pretty much "pro life" in so much that no one ever really revels at the thought of getting an abortion, it's not a feel good thing to do for anyone (not to mention the opposite of being pro life is being pro death and that would be a pretty messed up point of view to have to explain), at the same time some choices are harder than others and I think women should be allowed to make that choice for themselves.

 caledoneus wrote:
well, I am pro-life completely, but for all of my pro-choice brethern, i wonder what your veiws are on prostitution, euthanizing old people/sick people who want it and people's right to sell their body parts for cash.... Because if you are really pro-choice, then you can't say anything about any of those things.. they are choices as well after all.

Prostitution: Should be legal, but government should provide safe areas for prostitutes to do their business as I hear it's dangerous out on the streets and also no pimping.
Euthanasia: Should be legal.
Selling Body Parts: Sure, but as long as it's approved and tested by the medical industry.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pro-choice btw.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 caledoneus wrote:
well, I am pro-life completely, but for all of my pro-choice brethern, i wonder what your veiws are on prostitution, euthanizing old people/sick people who want it and people's right to sell their body parts for cash.... Because if you are really pro-choice, then you can't say anything about any of those things.. they are choices as well after all.

Prostitution: Should be legal, but government should provide safe areas for prostitutes to do their business as I hear it's dangerous out on the streets and also no pimping.
Euthanasia: Should be legal.
Selling Body: Sure, but as long as it's approved and tested by the medical industry.

At least you are consistent in your thought process.... give you props for that.... Most "pro-choice" people though would say all of those things are wrong, but then have the audacity to say it is ok to kill unborn babies, even partially born... blah

 NELS1031 wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Catholic. Life trumps convenience.

Agree.

Catholic. Pro-choice.

None of the above: pro death. Babies are evil and should be killed.

 caledoneus wrote:
well, I am pro-life completely, but for all of my pro-choice brethern, i wonder what your veiws are on prostitution

Should be legal. Religious obsession with what other people do in their bedrooms should not overrule individual freedom to do what you want (as long as it doesn't harm anyone else). Is it the best job ever? Maybe not, but we're fine with having lots of other really horrible jobs (would you rather have sex for money, or scrub toilets?) and the worst of the abuse only happens because it's illegal (see prohibition-era crime and the modern war on drugs).

euthanizing old people/sick people who want it

Should be legal. I don't see any reason we should force people to suffer through an incredibly painful end (long after any quality of life is gone, often taking their minds with it) just for the sake of being "alive" for a bit longer. You'd be considered a if you forced your pet to go through that instead of giving it a painless death, so why should people, with much greater capacity for suffering, be forced to endure it?

and people's right to sell their body parts for cash

Should not be legal. In theory an individual person has a right to make decisions like that, but a for-profit organ industry would be almost guaranteed to prey on people suffering from mental illness or crippling poverty. It's hard to imagine a person giving informed and un-coerced consent to give up body parts, so this falls in the same category of grabbing a suicidal person and pulling them back from the edge of a bridge.

Can't people already get money for donating blood or plasma?

 Cheesecat wrote:
Can't people already get money for donating blood or plasma?

Blood no, plasma yes, but 'donating' is a pretty loose use of the word 'donate'.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
Can't people already get money for donating blood or plasma?

Blood no, plasma yes, but 'donating' is a pretty loose use of the word 'donate'.

Am I misusing the word?

Pro-choice.
Also this: http://dicksforthirdworldkids.weebly.com

You can choice to do that too. No problem with that either.

 Peregrine wrote:
Should be legal. Religious obsession with what other people do in their bedrooms should not overrule individual freedom to do what you want (as long as it doesn't harm anyone else). Is it the best job ever? Maybe not, but we're fine with having lots of other really horrible jobs (would you rather have sex for money, or scrub toilets?) and the worst of the abuse only happens because it's illegal (see prohibition-era crime and the modern war on drugs).

Much of the opposition to prostitution legalization actually comes from feminist lobbies.

 caledoneus wrote:
well, I am pro-life completely, but for all of my pro-choice brethern, i wonder what your veiws are on prostitution, euthanizing old people/sick people who want it and people's right to sell their body parts for cash.... Because if you are really pro-choice, then you can't say anything about any of those things.. they are choices as well after all.

Prostitution: should be legal and regulated. Require testing, regulate where it can be done, provide safeguards for both worker and client.

Euthanasia: should be legal and regulated. Write some laws about possibly having to show that you are mentally competent to make that decision and then help to ensure it is done right.

Sell body parts for cash: Again, would have to be very regulated to make sure that poor people are not taken advantage of.

Because abortion should be regulated so that it can be done safely, same as everything else.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
Can't people already get money for donating blood or plasma?

Blood no, plasma yes, but 'donating' is a pretty loose use of the word 'donate'.

Am I misusing the word?

No, the plasma companies are; they just buy plasma and call it donating.

 Ahtman wrote:
No, the plasma companies are; they just buy plasma and call it donating.

OK, makes sense.

 caledoneus wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 caledoneus wrote:
well, I am pro-life completely, but for all of my pro-choice brethern, i wonder what your veiws are on prostitution, euthanizing old people/sick people who want it and people's right to sell their body parts for cash.... Because if you are really pro-choice, then you can't say anything about any of those things.. they are choices as well after all.

Prostitution: Should be legal, but government should provide safe areas for prostitutes to do their business as I hear it's dangerous out on the streets and also no pimping.
Euthanasia: Should be legal.
Selling Body: Sure, but as long as it's approved and tested by the medical industry.

At least you are consistent in your thought process.... give you props for that.... Most "pro-choice" people though would say all of those things are wrong, but then have the audacity to say it is ok to kill unborn babies, even partially born... blah

They don't.

Straw Men arguments are fallacious. It is also Ad Hominem, another fallacy.