Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Are we to presume that either:

a) Back in the year 8000BC (or shortly there after) the Emperor knew that he would have to make all the decisions he's made to end up in the slowly failing Golden Throne just to give humanity a chance at survival.

or

b) He was guesstimating a lot of the time and had no idea that his loyal creations would turn against him because of the way he treated everyone.

I would say B. Who doesn't guesstimate?

I like to think he was the ultimate bullshitter, he basically won via pure brute force, for someone who was suppose to be able to see so many paths and be so brilliant he sure was awful at anything not involving stabbing something repeatedly.

So b.

I imagine it's mostly B. Starting out, their were probably so many possibilities that he had no idea how it would end. As time went on though, and he drew closer to the end, the final outcomes became apparent. Kinda like when you realize you're in trouble half way through the action. You know what's coming but it's too late to stop.

The emperor is just a very powerful psyker, not a god.

He is in actuality one of the worst leaders ever. He made so many errors in basic leadership. He, through his own actions, turned Lorgar, the one whom started it all.

I haven't listened to it yet, but the new Audio drama Wolf Hunt goes into this somewhat from what I have heard.

Uh, the Emperor's future seeing abilities were barely better than a regular persons.

He explicitly and canonically had no idea the Horus Heresy was shaping up even AFTER it had started.

It may just be an idea to keep people guessing but going by some hints throughout the HH series I've come to believe that the Emperor deliberately allowed the Heresy to happen as per the old Star Child background.

The Emperor needed to end up on the Golden Throne to eventually be reborn and destroy Chaos once and for all, the purpose for which He, the New Man, was created through the sacrifice of the ancient Shamen.

Basically the Emperor was going to create a race of Primarchs but once He saw the potential of the Heresy future allowed the Primarchs to be scattered and opted to be a living corpse instead.

 Gogsnik wrote:
It may just be an idea to keep people guessing but going by some hints throughout the HH series I've come to believe that the Emperor deliberately allowed the Heresy to happen as per the old Star Child background.

If you're going by HH, he definitely had no idea. He needed that guy in Outcast Dead to tell him the future.

I prefer him not knowing. I believe a lot of the dystopian grimdarkness is encapsulated in the Emperor's failure to strike down Horus before his near-death, the crusade coming to a halt as a result and the Imperium struggling ever since simply to survive. If he planned it all then that interpretation suffers for it.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

If you're going by HH, he definitely had no idea. He needed that guy in Outcast Dead to tell him the future.

But you also have the Emperor seeming to pause for thought whilst the nascent Primarchs are not quite scattered. I forget which of the HH novels that scene is in but the Emperor certainly seems as if He could have stopped it happening but chose not to.

It is also mentioned that the Emperor could see the future clearly up to a point after which it becomes occluded so you can take your pick with just what and how much the Emperor percieved.

That was whilst Horus was either taken back in time or merely shown a vision of the past. I prefer to think he actually travelled there to be shown the events as he was warned not to touch anything or he could alter the past. Visions tend to be view only.

The big E saw the warp storm that was to scatter his children and merely turned his back and walked off instead of even attempting to stop it. Which makes me think he HAD planned for it all.

He waited 30,000 years before taking control of humanity. Why then? If he was truly capable of seeing the future with any real clarity then he would have taken control shortly after growing up.

This leads me to B. He simply wasn't as powerful as the eccliesarchy would have you believe. His stated goal was the preservation and growth of humanity. Meanwhile, humans were starting to mutate into psykers; turning into doorways for chaos. He tried to stop that, or at least delay it, by telling everyone gods didnt exist. He failed miserably. I think it would have been far better for him to have openly taught humanity about the nature of chaos while simply destroying those who couldn't properly control themselves.

Pretending a thing doesn't exist only gives it more power when it finally shows up.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Gogsnik wrote:
It may just be an idea to keep people guessing but going by some hints throughout the HH series I've come to believe that the Emperor deliberately allowed the Heresy to happen as per the old Star Child background.

If you're going by HH, he definitely had no idea. He needed that guy in Outcast Dead to tell him the future.

The Outcast Dead is the biggest continuity screw up in all of science fiction fandom, I wouldnt put much emphasis on anything in that book. It actually had Magnus contacting the Emperor after the big E knew about Horus' betrayal, which contradicts every thing written before.

That book is a true embarassment to the BL.

JWhex wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Gogsnik wrote:
It may just be an idea to keep people guessing but going by some hints throughout the HH series I've come to believe that the Emperor deliberately allowed the Heresy to happen as per the old Star Child background.

If you're going by HH, he definitely had no idea. He needed that guy in Outcast Dead to tell him the future.

The Outcast Dead is the biggest continuity screw up in all of science fiction fandom, I wouldnt put much emphasis on anything in that book. It actually had Magnus contacting the Emperor after the big E knew about Horus' betrayal, which contradicts every thing written before.

That book is a true embarassment to the BL.

Listen to Wolf Hunt for an explanation attempt that doesn't really cut the mustard

clively wrote:
Pretending a thing doesn't exist only gives it more power when it finally shows up.

Ignorance is bliss except when it pops out, converts and mutates your children against you and then causes a Galaxy spanning war which results in you being crippled.

I get annoyed with BL just using the whole the Emperor was a dumbass card every time they have to connect the dots between bits of fluff in the heresy. I mean the emperor was blatantly not a dumbass or he would never have achieved what he did. The other thing that annoys me is sometimes the emperor shows great awareness into the workings of others whilst at other times he throws a brick through their ageing grannies' living room window.

It just smacks of poor imagination to me.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:
I get annoyed with BL just using the whole the Emperor was a dumbass card every time they have to connect the dots between bits of fluff in the heresy. I mean the emperor was blatantly not a dumbass or he would never have achieved what he did. The other thing that annoys me is sometimes the emperor shows great awareness into the workings of others whilst at other times he throws a brick through their ageing grannies' living room window.

It just smacks of poor imagination to me.

I disagree. Being a tactical and logistical genius doesn't make him likable or socially capable of handling an Empire, let alone his own children who are perhaps naturally more disinclined to listen to his every word. I feel BL has been consistent in that he's very good at certain things, but it seems his under lying arrogance and ego causes him to overlook things and consider they could possibly go any way other than what he expected.

The emperor rolled the dice ..and they came up all 1's for his save vrs plot device.