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Say, under mysterious circumstances Abaddon meets his end in the midst of the thirteenth black crusade and the Chaos Gods won't revive him. Who amongst the traitor Legions replaces him? I ask this for my M42-3 project that some in the proposed rules section already know. I initially pegged Eliphas the Inheritor as his replacement but thought that maybe I shouldn't jump to him right away.

There are hundreds if not thousands of individuals who would be gunning for Abaddon's position. There is no successor. There is no replacement. There is civil war. Warband against warband, and lots of it. The likes of which have been going on since the Legion Wars (and I don't mean the Horus Heresy).

Eliphas could only be a viable contender if he ascended to Daemonhood at the end of Retribution. I considered Azariah Kyras The Ascendant to be the Alpha Legion's answer to the Black Legion, replacing Horus with him.

Other than Eliphas, I could go for Huron Blackheart, with his giant pirate fleet.

After the dust settled from all the infighting, My money would be on Huron.

Alpharius.

If he dies, Alpharius will take over.

On a more serious note, it would probably be Huron. Or the Emperor clone Fabulous Bile has been working on.

Lucarikx

jareddm wrote:
There are hundreds if not thousands of individuals who would be gunning for Abaddon's position. There is no successor. There is no replacement. There is civil war. Warband against warband, and lots of it. The likes of which have been going on since the Legion Wars (and I don't mean the Horus Heresy).

Oh how I would pay to see this happen.

Daemon Eliphas wouldn't work. The task of the warmaster is a material universe one, which is unsuited for a daemon who needs rituals etc to stay anchored to the material. One of the main reasons Abaddon refuses daemonhood is so he can keep himself tied to the material realm until the job is done.

The main issue with Huron is that he's like, on the wrong end of the galaxy, isn't he? That said, he's at least experienced when it comes to uniting things (He ruled the entire Badab Sector, after all). He'd probably be the best choice for the job.

There'd probably be huge civil war all around. Which would probably be bad for any plans Chaos might have (assuming it has a plan). The Chaos Gods included Eternal Warrior in Abaddon's mark of Chaos Undivided for a reason. They themselves don't want Abaddon to die anytime soon, (according to Wikia, the mark itself is the gods' decree that they'll shield him from death until the job is done or something like that, though of course it is a wiki).

 Insane Smile wrote:

jareddm wrote:
There are hundreds if not thousands of individuals who would be gunning for Abaddon's position. There is no successor. There is no replacement. There is civil war. Warband against warband, and lots of it. The likes of which have been going on since the Legion Wars (and I don't mean the Horus Heresy).

Oh how I would pay to see this happen.

Good to hear, because the Legion Wars and Abaddon's rise as Warmaster is exactly what ADB's next series is all about.

Eliphas fails too much to take over just like that. Remember how much he has to bargain with Abaddon in Retribution? To the point where Abaddon actually sends someone to *keep an eye on him*? This is not the calibre of Lord capable of taking on Abaddon's role.

Huron could do it, but not only is he in completely the wrong part of the galaxy, he has his own agendas. So it's not likely.

I would think either one of the Daemon Primarchs would make more of a push in the material world, or Ahriman could reveal some grand plan he's been squirrelling away at all this time.

 Super Ready wrote:
Eliphas fails too much to take over just like that. Remember how much he has to bargain with Abaddon in Retribution? To the point where Abaddon actually sends someone to *keep an eye on him*? This is not the calibre of Lord capable of taking on Abaddon's role.

Huron could do it, but not only is he in completely the wrong part of the galaxy, he has his own agendas. So it's not likely.

I would think either one of the Daemon Primarchs would make more of a push in the material world, or Ahriman could reveal some grand plan he's been squirrelling away at all this time.

Erebus never liked Abaddon to the point of arguably being his single greatest critic amongst the traitor legions, and seems to be the guy who'd want to try it out. Or perhaps groom some Dark Apostle to step into the position while he does some behind the scenes manipulations and avoid being a target in the almost certain civil war.

Because Erebus is a douche.

 Kain wrote:
Say, under mysterious circumstances Abaddon meets his end in the midst of the thirteenth black crusade and the Chaos Gods won't revive him. Who amongst the traitor Legions replaces him? I ask this for my M42-3 project that some in the proposed rules section already know. I initially pegged Eliphas the Inheritor as his replacement but thought that maybe I shouldn't jump to him right away.

umm anyone. The next biggest baddest undivided champion to rise up and get makred by all 4 gods

 Super Ready wrote:
Ahriman could reveal some grand plan he's been squirrelling away at all this time.

The Imperium better hope not.

Abaddon does not have a tenth of the competence that Ahriman does.

The Warmaster needs to not only be a good warrior, charismatic, and a good war tactician, but a cunning politician as well capable of somehow uniting the fractious hordes of chaos. He'd also presumably have to WANT the job. I'm not sure if Ahriman's interested in commanding the masses as he is in searching out knowledge (...and maybe ascending to god hood if some wiki statements are actually taken from official fluff).

The Warmaster also probably needs to be loyal to the gods. Ahriman refuses to even acknowledge that he serves Tzeentch, let alone the other three. I find it difficult to imagine Ahriman tolerate receiving the Mark of Chaos Undivided (which, while a sign of the god's favor, is also a sign that you are working for them and are their servant, which Abaddon acknowledges)

Of the known named characters, Huron really fits the bill the best. He's even stated that he's trying to create his own empire that rivals that of the traitor legions' in power, so he at least would want the job, unlike all the other characters besides maybe Erebus. Erebus, however, has always been content (possibly even preferring) to manipulate things from the sidelines. Even as a leader of the word bearers (technically Lorgar is still the official leader but obviously he doesn't do much in practice), he's only one of two co-leaders (a fact he doesn't seem to mind. Kor Phaeron is constantly trying to take full control from Erebus, but Erebus doesn't seem to be doing the same to Kor and just brushes the whole thing off). Technically he's actually only one of an entire council, although I'm sure he has a huge chunk of political heft within it.

TiamatRoar wrote:
The Warmaster needs to not only be a good warrior, charismatic, and a good war tactician, but a cunning politician as well capable of somehow uniting the fractious hordes of chaos. He'd also presumably have to WANT the job. I'm not sure if Ahriman's interested in commanding the masses as he is in searching out knowledge (...and maybe ascending to god hood if some wiki statements are actually taken from official fluff).

The Warmaster also probably needs to be loyal to the gods. Ahriman refuses to even acknowledge that he serves Tzeentch, let alone the other three. I find it difficult to imagine Ahriman tolerate receiving the Mark of Chaos Undivided (which, while a sign of the god's favor, is also a sign that you are working for them and are their servant, which Abaddon acknowledges)

Of the known named characters, Huron really fits the bill the best. He's even stated that he's trying to create his own empire that rivals that of the traitor legions' in power, so he at least would want the job, unlike all the other characters besides maybe Erebus. Erebus, however, has always been content (possibly even preferring) to manipulate things from the sidelines. Even as a leader of the word bearers (technically Lorgar is still the official leader but obviously he doesn't do much in practice), he's only one of two co-leaders (a fact he doesn't seem to mind. Kor Phaeron is constantly trying to take full control from Erebus, but Erebus doesn't seem to be doing the same to Kor and just brushes the whole thing off). Technically he's actually only one of an entire council, although I'm sure he has a huge chunk of political heft within it.

Right, so perhaps Erebus cutting a deal with Huron and effectively being a dynamic duo of Chaos?

 Lucarikx wrote:
Alpharius.

If he dies, Alpharius will take over.

That happened millenia ago

 Exergy wrote:

umm anyone. The next biggest baddest undivided champion to rise up and get marked by all 4 gods

Important point this. Unless there's been a retcon I've missed (not unlikely of course) Huron is a secular despot. He has no interest in earning the blessings of all of the dark gods - without which he'll never get the full loyalty of the cult legions. Huron is also hampered in that although he is successful, he's still an infant upstart. Not many veterans of the long war would be able to stomach kow-towing to someone who a century ago was still serving the corpse-god.

I can't see Huron getting the job simply because he wasn't around for the Horus Heresy and therefore generally looked down upon by those originally in the traitor legions.

Unless a daemon primarch takes over, no-one really springs to mind as Abaddon's successor, to me. I think the most suitable person would likely be revealed in AD-B's upcoming Rise of the Warmaster series: so my answer would be whomever Abaddon's second in command is in that, in all likelihood.

I think Huron would work his way into the position. He's got an incredibly sharp mind for politics and military tactics. He really does seem like the Number 2 guy in the Chaos Codex. He's got the drive and the lust for power that I think many people could get behind, or die opposing.

Creed. Through sheer tactical brilliance.

What about some of the old Sons of Horus who have been around for as long as Abaddon? For example Horus Aximand or "little Horus" was the most senior Sons of Horus captain after abaddon and the warmaster himself. He is still alive today if black library can be trusted. If not him then it would have to be one of traitor primarchs, it would be in alpharius/omegons best intrests to gain ctonrole of the legions. Huron doesnt have enough power or influence in my opinion

 Evileyes wrote:
Creed. Through sheer tactical brilliance.

Have an exalt you legend!

Mephiston

It's not like Abbaddon is sitting pretty everyday, he has every chaos marine, mutant, a demon prince gunning for his position. He just happens to be the biggest, strongest, and best leader right now. He dies, another will rise, and so on.

Wouldn't Huron be a little too "new to Chaos" to become the warmaster? Would old school traitors even consider following him?

Huron's like the Tau, GW likes to bang on about how he/they are THE BIG FISH and gloss over the fact that its IN A SMALL POND - and there are dozens of similar unnamed warlords/races in similar small ponds scattered across the galaxy.

Good point about Huron not being an original traitor legionaire. That'd make it VERY difficult for him to earn everyones' respect (many Chaos Marines are actually SINCERELY loyal to Abaddon because he's stuck with their purpose since it began in the Heresy, unlike the daemon primarchs, and many others look down on non-originals a LOT, like that short story where that Iron Warrior flipped out when he found his guests were new instead of original Horus Heresy warriors)

In that case, I suppose the closest candidates would likely be one of Abaddon''s lieutenants, what's-his-name and those-two-guys and that-guy-that-um...-stuff. After some big civil war, of course.

...no wonder why the chaos gods themselves pointed out that they wouldn't let Abaddon die with his mark of chaos ascendant. Finding a replacement, as fun as it is for WH40k fans to call him failbaddon, would be difficult and vexing.

SerQuintus wrote:
Huron's like the Tau, GW likes to bang on about how he/they are THE BIG FISH and gloss over the fact that its IN A SMALL POND - and there are dozens of similar unnamed warlords/races in similar small ponds scattered across the galaxy.

Gotta agree with this Huron is talked up big by players, but in all actuality he is a pretty minor player, maybe a pretty big minor player, but his empire is a drop in the bucket.

I think others have said it but, whoever is the 2nd in Command of Abaddons guys right now, or maybe the Chosen Champion he sent to grab the "Heart o Chaos" during the 13th Black Crusade

Warmaster? Snice when is Abaddon the Warmaster? That's an Imperial title.

Abaddon inherited it from Horus. The Imperium still uses it (tho some consider it cursed) presumably because it's a title created by the Emperor himself (it'd be heresy to remove it, really).

End result is that both the Imperium and Chaos use it. Though in Chaos' case, only Horus and Abaddon ever held it, presumably.

To maintain control, you have to offer the men beneath you more than what your opponents are offering, and be believable about it.

Abaddon uses the richest daemon worlds of the Eye of Terror (forge worlds being the most valued) to maintain control over the Black Legion, and he uses the Black Legion to maintain control over the Eye of Terror. Then, using those resources, he's able to maintain control over the other Legions. Its a dangerous game. To motivate Legionnaires to go on crusade (when every crusade is extremely dangerous), he allows them to loot and plunder as they please, instead of hoarding over the wealth himself. This is also dangerous. The more successful a warlord is, the more he plunders, and that makes him richer, and that makes him more successful. Abaddon is creating rivals against his cause. It is stated repeatedly in the fluff that Abaddon has fought several wars to maintain control over the Traitor Legions. Considering that he is still Warmaster, he's evidently won them.

If Abaddon dies before the Imperium falls, his heir will be whoever can seize as much of the Black Legion's wealth as possible. Falkus Kibre, Captain of the Justaerin, is a good candidate. From what we know about him, he's a skilled field commander, and one of Abaddon's closest confidents. Following the Horus Heresy, he appears to serve as the head of Abaddon's bodyguard, but his exact posistion is unclear. In any case, he is with Abaddon all the time. He knows where the money is, and as Abaddon's right hand man, he's the closest to it. That said, we know little about Falkus. He's a good commander, but is he a good politician?

Then there's the Chosen of Abaddon. Zaraphiston is a Sorcerer described as 'the most senior advisor to Abaddon'. This puts him in a position similar to Falkus's. Devram Korda was once the Tyrant of Samoa, a hiveworld in the Eye of Terror, but he was overthrown. Evidently he's not essential to Abaddon's plans, as during the 12th Black Crusade he was sent away from the fighting and deep within the Eye of Terror to locate the Heart of Chaos, an artifact which would aid Abaddon. The mission was a high risk one; if he was sent on it, he's disposable. Ygethmor, another member of Abaddon's Chosen, was sent on that mission as well. There's a quote regarding another mission that Ygethmor was sent on; "In a final show of the nature of chaos, the commanders of the Black Companies sent by Abaddon had very specific orders concerning the fate of Ygethmor; he was to be given any assistance needed, but if he failed, they were not to bring the sorcerer back with them." Of the last two members of Abaddon's Chosen, Skyrak Slaughterborn and Urkrathos, very little is known.

Let's look outside of the Black Legion. I'm not going to discuss the Primarchs, as those who still live are playing the Great Game of Chaos, and have abandoned Horus's cause. Ahriman of the Thousand Sons is an incredibly intelligent and powerful man, but he's an exile from his own Legion with few resources to draw on. He would assuredly try to capitalize on the panic following Abaddon's death for his own gain, but I doubt he would conquer the Black Legion. Typhus the Traveler of the Death Guard is in a similar position. Also, these two both don't worship Chaos Undivided, which make Black Legionnaires less likely to listen to them.

Kor Phaeron and Erebus are both respected politicians and generals, and they're members of the Dark Council that lords over the Word Bearers. That said, they both share their power with all the other members of the Dark Council, and they command very little authority compared to someone like Abaddon. Krieg Acerbus lords over the largest warband of Night Lords, and is shown to be a wealthy and powerful Daemon Prince. Despite this, he can't even maintain control over one broken Legion, much less the entire Black Legion. Last but not least there is Huron Blackheart, the single most powerful Chaos Champion besides Abaddon himself. Huron controls a huge piratical fleet and a great empire within the Maelstrom, but he is far from the Eye of Terror, and Black Legionnaires view him with little respect.

I think that if Abaddon dies, the Black Legion splinters into hundreds of warbands, the largest of which is led by Falkus Kibre. A great many Black Legionnaires will defect to other causes.

Chuck Norris would do it. Better than Abaddon. Better than the 4 chaos gods themselves. Why ? because he is Chuck Norris.